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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by chumanji9 View Post
    Thanks for the link.
    I was considering just getting just the light head and use the many 18650 batteries that I have already along with one of these holders.
    Water Resistant 4 x 18650 Battery Pack Case House Cover for Bike Lamp | eBay
    FYI: Going above 1800lm is 3A range. Protected batteries need to be rated for at least 2A to avoid cutoff with a 2S2P pack. Cheap batteries can be as low as 1A. Two 2S2P packs in parallel via a y-cable should work with the lowest rated batteries (and provide a 3hr runtime on high

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by islandtees View Post
    I need a real good light for some night riding and single track. All off road. No real budget constraints. I want some thing really good. Prefer handle bar mounted.
    I'll not argue that the Lupines are top class and offer excellent workmanship. On the other hand there are other lamps that offer specific features very conducive to mountain biking that are more affordable ( even if money is not the core issue ). Case in point; the Gloworm XS. While the output of the XS might not exceed or equal the output of Lupines' best it will provide more light than is typically needed for mountain biking. Output should be in the 2000 lumen range using three of the best Cree XM-L2 "U2" emitters.
    The design of the XS is top notch. The mount puts the lamp at almost any angle you wish and was specifically designed for the XS. The optics are "interchangeable" so if you want a flood, spot or mix you can do all of those things without too much problem.

    The XS also has a great User Interface that allows the user to dial in each mode level to the output they wish and then save it for future use ( otherwise known as "stepless" option ).

    Lastly is the fact that the XS is basically designed for the bars. It has a "wired remote control switch" that allows the rider to keep their hands on the bars while changing modes. Lastly the batteries for the GW's are made with Panasonic cells which are the best made. Service from the dealer is very good. If I had the money to buy any lamp I wanted I would buy the Gloworm XS ( if I wanted a bar lamp ). No, I don't own an XS but I do own a couple X2's.

    Lupine used to offer lamps with remote control. I'm not sure they still do. If Lupine still offers a lamp with remote I might consider buying one if I had unlimited funds. Anyway if I'm wrong about the lupines I'm sure someone will quickly correct me.

    There is also a British made lamp that is also high quality / very high output. Dang it, I forget the name of it . I believe it was using 7 to 9 XM-L's U2's. Sorry I forgot the listed output as well but I'm sure it had to be over 3000 lumen. Price was pretty steep if I recall, somewhere around $700. Someone will probably read this and recall the name. So many lamps out there hard to remember them all.
    Last edited by Cat-man-do; 03-06-2014 at 01:51 PM. Reason: fixing stupid mistakes

  3. #28
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    Not to steal the thread from the OP. Looks like Gloworm XS is high on the list as a bar light. What would you guys recommend for a Helmet light. Currently I am using Zebralight H600 MKII with a 2-fish mount. Its compact, light, excellent beam pattern uses a single 18650 and puts out 1000 lumens. But it only lasts 1.5hr at max, and my rides are usually 2 to 2.5hr.

    Thx for the battery infor Flamingtaco.

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by chumanji9 View Post
    Not to steal the thread from the OP. Looks like Gloworm XS is high on the list as a bar light. What would you guys recommend for a Helmet light. Currently I am using Zebralight H600 MKII with a 2-fish mount. Its compact, light, excellent beam pattern uses a single 18650 and puts out 1000 lumens. But it only lasts 1.5hr at max, and my rides are usually 2 to 2.5hr.



    Thx for the battery infor Flamingtaco.
    Dinotte XML 3 works well on the helmet

  5. #30
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    Well said Cat. I agree 100% with you. I do ride with a friend that only buys lupine and the quality is superb. Everything about it is well built including the batteries, charger, plugs, ect. He owns the latest version of the Betty and let me tell you. WoW! Killer beam pattern and killer output. It does indeed have a wireless button to change modes which is very cool. Again if funds are not a factor why not. But that's not my case. XS arrives tomorrow and can't wait to take it out on a night ride and compare it to my Duo and Olympia.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by chumanji9 View Post
    Not to steal the thread from the OP. Looks like Gloworm XS is high on the list as a bar light. What would you guys recommend for a Helmet light. Currently I am using Zebralight H600 MKII with a 2-fish mount. Its compact, light, excellent beam pattern uses a single 18650 and puts out 1000 lumens. But it only lasts 1.5hr at max, and my rides are usually 2 to 2.5hr.

    Thx for the battery infor Flamingtaco.
    I use a torch on the helmet too during the summer. I like a lite / wireless / self-contained set-up on the helmet. Not the brightest or longest throw but it works. As long as you have a really good bar lamp the beam pattern / throw of the helmet lamp is not so important....BUT there are exceptions. If you are riding in places where you might get a really long-fast down hills with sections that include areas that have very far line-of-sight ( think over 150 ft ) only then do you really want a good helmet lamp that can highlight trail objects at that distance. ( the faster you go the more important this is )

    Most places I ride the longest lines-of-sight are maybe 100 ft. My helmet torch can usually handle that without problem. When I'm doing the high speed downhill stuff I want my Xeccon S-12 on the helmet. Not the lightest single emitter lamp made but the throw is fantastic and unlike anything else I own. Beam pattern is narrow so not everyone will want something like that. Lots of good lamps out there that should work well on the helmet but it really depends on the places you ride and personal taste as to which is best.

  7. #32
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    I bought a cheap CREE mini flashlight two years ago and it has proven to be very dependable. They are still on sale at amazon for $30 so I bought 2.

  8. #33
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    ---

    IMHO


    The best mountain bike light: on bars

    one that is evenly weighted so no matter how hard a drop you take the thing stays where you put it. Bad example niterider trinewt and others. no matter how hard you yank the strap, that thing will droop forward when you bounce on stuff.

    good example: gemini duo or the clones. Super light, Tiny and centered on it's mount, drops don't affect how the light is aimed.\

    also something small so when you have a digger the thing isn't stuck out and getting smashed to bits. good gemini duo sized, bad 'exposure' sized.

    ------of course your pref matters, above are mine-----

    The best mountain bike light: on helmet

    There is only one for me and it rules six ways to sunday. A zebralight H600MKII, single 18650 powered, self contained, lightweight, never droops, easy to turn on and easy to swap batteries w/o looking (if I go past 2.5 hours I carry extra 18650)



    all other headlamps are PITA, heavier, or have piggyback batteries which bite. zebralight you don't even know it is there. except the fact you have 1000 lumens coming from it. and no having the head on one side doesn't affect anything...in fact it increases depth perception vs one exactly centered between the eyes, due to parallax between left and right eye, and the biased shadow.

  9. #34
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    Thanks for all the replies. The XS seems to keep popping up all over the internet as a great light. The price is not bad for what you get. This may be good for me.

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by 127.0.0.1 View Post
    all other headlamps are PITA, heavier, or have piggyback batteries which bite. zebralight you don't even know it is there. except the fact you have 1000 lumens coming from it. and no having the head on one side doesn't affect anything...in fact it increases depth perception vs one exactly centered between the eyes, due to parallax between left and right eye, and the biased shadow.
    No way is that putting out 1000 Lumen if it runs for more than an hour (excepting of course Chinese Lumens). The best 18650 available is 3400mAh capacity. You have to run an XML2 at +3A to get close to 1000 lumen.

  11. #36
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    ^ yes, it is.
    this is proven via testing by folks on cpf that the zebralight h600wMkII puts out exacly 1000 lumens. this is the same led and circuit as the zebralight SC600MkII, which was tested. Since it is the same guts, I assume the h600 is identical. did I test it personally no. was it tested by someone testing lights all the time to prove/deny claims yes. does zebralight have a history of fudging lumen numbers, no. never busted. does it blast light yes. good enuf for me.

    Light Output (runtimes)
    High: H1 1020 Lm (PID, approx 2 hr) or H2 620 Lm (PID, approx 2.5 hrs) / 330 Lm (3.9 hrs) / 150 Lm (11 hrs)





    so I got that going for me.

    I use NCR3100 and NCR3400's . the 3100 are eagtac protected 18650 and the 3400 are zebralight protected 18650...both NCR (panasonic) guts

    and OK you got me at 650 (actual) lumens I have > 2 hour runtime. at 1000 lumens I have 1 hour 40 minutes. I usually run it at 1 level down from high to maximize run.

    anyhow, it blows away any other headlight I have used, and i have fiddled with a lot of them...settled on this for total ease of use and practicability. *by 'blow away' I mean the whole package, small, light, never moves around, programming, 18650 powered, mount. it has it all.

    everyone should know about zebralight, IMHO. no BS these are top end tools

    Headlamp

    H600w Mk II 18650 XM-L2 Headlamp Neutral White

  12. #37
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    There is also a British made lamp that is also high quality / very high output. Dang it, I forget the name of it . I believe it was using 7 to 9 XM-L's U2's. Sorry I forgot the listed output as well but I'm sure it had to be over 3000 lumen. Price was pretty steep if I recall, somewhere around $700. Someone will probably read this and recall the name. So many lamps out there hard to remember them all. [/QUOTE]

    I believe you are thinking of the lights made by Full Beam. They do some seriously powerful lights and are very well made, not cheap though but they do seen to do end of season sales. I have the Speed LED model, very good. The Night Nemesis iI believe has 12 XPG's lighting up the trail.
    I run the Speed LED on the bar and Nightlightning Iblaast IX on the helmet, stupid bright.

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by 127.0.0.1 View Post
    and OK you got me at 650 (actual) lumens I have > 2 hour runtime. at 1000 lumens I have 1 hour 40 minutes. I usually run it at 1 level down from high to maximize run.
    Must be some electrical magic over there in Zebralight land.

    I have not tested a Zebralight but am going off of published electrical specifications for the LED used and the best 18650 currently available. I'm sure it's a nice light and all but IMO, the claims are exaggerated.

    Per the Cree XM-L2 Datasheet, the best bin is a U2. That bin is rated at 975 Lumen at 85C or 1108 Lumen at 25C. There's no way the Zebralight is keeping the LED temp at 25C but it probably keeps it below 85C. So lets assume it is about 1000 Lumen. You need to drive it at 3A or maybe a bit more (I run my XML based lights at 3.5A) to get 1000 lumen. The Vf per the datasheet shows 3.3V at 3A. Thats a demand of 9.9 Watts. The NCR3400 18650 is a nominal 3.7V and 3.4Ah. That's a capacity of 12.58W/hr. 12.58/9.9=1.27 or a hair more than 1 hour 15minutes before the battery is toast. Toss in driver efficiency losses and the numbers get worse.

  14. #39
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    I have the zebralight H600 in neutral white for my helmet as well. It really does put out 1000 lumen....not chinese lumen. I don't have any equipment to measure it but compare to my friend's Fenix BT20 which puts out 700lumen. I see a major different between the two.

    Here is a review of the Flashlight version of that headlight.
    Zebralight SC600 Mk II L2 (XM-L2, 1x18650) Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, VIDEO+

  15. #40
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    127.0.0.1 I notice you are using the zebralight mount for your helmet. Personally I found the 2-fish mount to be much more stable. I think the zebralight mount is too soft for rocky trails. I also mount it at the center of the helmet instead of in the front, it puts less weight on the forehead when the helmet is bouncing up and down on rocky stuff.

    I too only get about 1.5hour from my Pana 3400mah battery. Since my rides are 2 to 2.5hr I have to do a battery change...

    Here is the link to the 2-fish mount. There are cheaper ebay version around $3....but I like to support people that came up with the original designs.

    Amazon.com: Two Fish Unlimited Bike Block Pump Holder (One Strap and Block): Sports & Outdoors

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by chumanji9 View Post
    127.0.0.1 I notice you are using the zebralight mount for your helmet. Personally I found the 2-fish mount to be much more stable. I think the zebralight mount is too soft for rocky trails. I also mount it at the center of the helmet instead of in the front, it puts less weight on the forehead when the helmet is bouncing up and down on rocky stuff.
    I ride through a lot of vegetable tunnels... this is the only way I can not snag
    plus easy reach up and twist to aim light downward for road segments

    -----------
    seems I am getting guff about the lumen rating. it is 1000 lumen, but to argue that you need to argue the data posted by reviewers on another forum, not me as i do not measure it. and true fact zebralight is not known for lies or 'chinese lumen claims' on cpf and blf. it is a US company that specs the light and has them manufactured overseas. my point in bringing up zebalight is I have spent gobs of money and bought a ton of lights in the last two years and pared down and sold all the stuff that was annoying for one reason or another, and settled on what I find is the #1 superior night riding tool for the noggin. I can change the battery while riding one-handed on smooth sections or smooth climbs (but usually stop so i don't risk losing the cap or a cell...takes 20secs at most). it is small, programmable, doesn't budge if I don't want it too. I have 3 of them...original h600w (700-400 lumen), h600wMKII (1000-650 lumen), and H602w flood (1000 lumen wall)


    know what? the lumens really do not matter here on the 'but the cree spec sheet says THIS so YOU 127.0.0.1 are wrong...blahblahblah...' once above 500 or so the eye can barely tell the diff of ~100 lumens anyhow. when I have a light that thermally steps down in a 200 lumen chunk I can barely notice a thing, and often don't...unless I am stopped and watching for it. still doesn't mean the ZL is anything less than the best ever, that I have found. YMMV

    I am pretty sure the light starts up at 1000 lumens and immediately the PID controller adjusts this by the millisecond throughout the runtime, so it might start at 1000 or 700 and droop up and down in unnoticeable steps. again, no reason to pull out the charts and see who's powerpoint looks best...what matters is riding in the woods.
    Last edited by 127.0.0.1; 03-13-2014 at 08:50 AM.

  17. #42
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    Just thought I'd add my opinion on the Zebralight controversy; Although I'm quite sure the Zebralight torches are some of the nicest torches made ( as I have one on my wish list ) I have to agree with Vanc that the claims of 1000 lumen are stretching things a bit. It might indeed be very close to 1000 lumen but regardless if used in steady mode ( longer than 10 minutes ) the LED is going to heat up and drop slightly in output the hotter the lamp gets. All LED lamps do this, even with the best heat sinks.

    It should also be pointed out that even the best torches have to deal with the limited power supply of a single cell battery. Even with the best Panasonic batteries eventually the driver will not be able to compensate for the drop in voltage when trying to supply the 3A needed to drive the emitter at maximum output. I'd estimate you might be able to get maybe 20 minutes at max output before the driver loses the ability to pump the current up to 3A. If I'm wrong about that I will be very happy because I will definitely be getting one real fast.

    I use a custom XM-L2 drop-in driven very close to 3A. I'm sure that if I ran it on high *longer than a couple minutes the output would start to drop and become quite noticeable after about 20 minutes. ( * drop-ins are usually not very good at sinking heat ) This is why I rarely run my torch on high. When I do run high it is only for the couple minutes needed to descend a hill. Other than that I run only mid-mode. Using it this way the single Panasonic 3100 cell I use will usually last me for my typical 2 hour ride without any problems. If I plan a longer ride I will either use a dedicated bike lamp ( with bigger battery ) or carry an extra cell for the torch ( and switch out mid-ride ).

    Anyway, nice to hear that you like the Zebralight torch. They are definitely a well made premium product. When I can afford to drop the coin I might just pick one up.

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by 127.0.0.1 View Post
    'but the cree spec sheet says THIS so YOU 127.0.0.1 are wrong...blahblahblah...'
    I did not say you are wrong. I understand you are repeating/posting claims made by the manufacturer or others. Occasionally I dive into muddy waters of LED output and runtime claims and try to bring a bit of reality to the forum. This is not intended to call you out, but to try to keep this forum a little closer to reality. IME engineering data from the manufacturer of the components used in a light is the better source to estimate performance numbers than relying on information from the seller of a light.

    I did look at the CPF review linked by chumanji9, and it seems to support my position that it does not achieve the runtime claims by Zebralight. This graph appears to show that at ~40 minutes there is a major drop in output due to low battery voltage using a 3100mAh capacity cell....

    http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/f...00Runtimes.gif

    This is clipped from the manufacturers spec...

    Light Output (runtimes)
    High: H1 1100 Lm (PID, approx 2 hr)......(clipped out the detailing of runtime at lower levels)

    If one were reading specs, this seems to indicate that it will run at 1100 Lumen for approximately 2 hours.

    It would be nice to keep real performance numbers in this forum. Might prevent some poor schmuck from going out for an hour ride on high beam and thinking "hey, they say it will run for 2 hours on high so I'll be fine", and end up in the dark or near dark "limp mode" 20 minutes from finishing.

    PS. Never ride trails with one light, always have some kind of usable backup system.

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vancbiker View Post

    I did look at the CPF review linked by chumanji9, and it seems to support my position that it does not achieve the runtime claims by Zebralight. This graph appears to show that at ~40 minutes there is a major drop in output due to low battery voltage using a 3100mAh capacity cell....

    http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/f...00Runtimes.gif

    .
    I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the Zebralight torches incorporate a circuit that tapers the current back very subtly ( rather than suddenly ) when the lamp begins to heat up. This helps explain what is seen in the graph. According to the graph there is nearly a 25% drop in output after about 20 minutes ( when used with proper cooling ). Likely this is brought about by the thermal protection circuit doing the job it was designed to do. Notice that when there is no cooling that the output drops more quickly and much farther down than when used with a fan. Obviously the thermal protection reacts very well when no cooling is being used.

    Now if you do as I suggested and use the high mode sparingly you will likely get a brighter output when you need it the most. Anyway, this is also reflected in the data sheets provided by Cree that clearly show that when the emitters are over-heated that they will drop in luminous output. If you can keep the heat losses down to ~10-12% you've done well. Once it gets over 20% the loss of output becomes more obvious.

    Nothing wrong with using torches but it does require a different "use" strategy because of the thermal limitations of the lamp as well as the capacity limitations of a single cell power source. Torches are basically designed for quick on/off usage. As such one must keep that in mind when using them for longer periods of time.

    Summarizing, it is better to modulate the output manually than letting the protection circuit do it's job. Once you've reached the threshold of the thermal circuit you're not going to get full output again until the lamp cools down...AND that may take a while.

  20. #45
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    I'll restate it. it is as bright as i need it for big ringing around the woods for 2 hours then I can easily pull an 18650 from my camelbak belt pocket and toss in a freshie

  21. #46
    kao
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    I have bought a great bike light last week.
    Is there anyone tell me how can I upload the photo?
    Be yourself.

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by kao View Post
    I have bought a great bike light last week.
    Is there anyone tell me how can I upload the photo?
    Get a photobucket account. Upload the picture to you photobucket album then copy the image link and paste here on the forum. That's one way of doing it.

  23. #48
    jl
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    I think you need 10 posts to post any pics. You can upload to a google photos, or something similar and link to your post using an 'img' tag.
    Ride On!

  24. #49
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    It's not a deal breaker but I don't need Gloworm's remote-only switch for a bar light, and when you don't need something like that it can be a hassle. Thought for sure I'd pick up an XS, but *maybe* I'll pick up a Wilma. At this level to a certain extent you can't really lose.

  25. #50
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    when it comes to lights, you get what you pay for.. never skimp on lights.. I have a cygolite with 1000 lumens on my handle bar and a serfas true 1500 lumens on my helmet.. both have batteries which are good for 3hrs on high.. paid more than $300 per light, but totally worth it imho..

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