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  1. #1
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    The Battery Thread 2016 and Beyond

    Since the old thread about batteries goes back into 2013 it is time to start new one (thanks Cat). I'm going to structure it a bit differently and try to keep all important things in the first two posts.

    This thread should be used as a guide how/where to get good battery packs and all their technical characteristics. Please avoid endless discussions about nonrelated stuff and try to keep this thread clean and on topic.

    If anyone wants me to update or add something important to all readers, specialy the begginers, write it down and/or send me a PM, will try to act promptly.

    In the post #2 I'm going to list links and reviews about batteries. Don't expect to be all there right away. If you miss one, tell me.

    Also important thing, we are members from all over the world, not just the USA. So when giving advices or some comments think of members not living in the USA. So some things can be good for someone but not for all. On the other hand someone asking for advice should tell where (aprox.) is comming from so the answers might be more directed not just some general or not relevant. Thank you.

  2. #2
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    Reserved

    Reserved for links, etc...
    * Disclaimer: Ordering from any of the sources below is at your own risk. There might be some mistakes and outdated links.

    Old 2013 thread:
    The Battery Thread: 2013

    China sources:


    US sources:


    Reviews:


    Educational stuff:



    Edit 4th, Mar.2018: Added ROCKBROS 4-Cell review to the list above

    More to be added..... tell me what to add.

    PS. If you find my work of some value there is star below to be used
    Last edited by ledoman; 1 Week Ago at 12:10 PM.

  3. #3
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    Good show ledoman! I like how you structured this. Going forward this should be the place people go for battery information. I know you wanted to keep most information in the first two posts but as you go along this might become a problem. When I started the first Battery thread that was kind of my intent as well but unfortunately I found out after about two weeks or so that I was not able to edit the OP. Seems MTBR puts a time limit on how long you can edit a post. In order to edit after two weeks you have to become a moderator or get a moderator to do the editing. ( unless they have changed things since then )...just a heads up.

  4. #4
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    Thanks Cat! Will see what happens. Mostly I'm going to edit post #2 not the OP so this might work out. If getting into truouble I will contact admin otherwise I can always start new thread and use copy/paste. And maybe I just need more reputation points

  5. #5
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    I'm still unable to add more +rep's to you, but sure others will do that.

    BTW, is it really necessary to list 11 links to the Battery University? IMHO, single one is quite enough...

  6. #6
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    Well, it is not necessary but there is a lot of reading and people tends to get scared with all that stuff so I've choosen topics they should read. It is easier for them seeing relevant topics. And not all know what to look for.

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    Ok.

  8. #8
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    Ok, transporting my question from the old thread to this one:

    "Anyone tried using Sub C batteries with bike lights? if so, how big of mAh they can go?" Is something like this could work?
    Panasonic Battery Sub C 1 2V 3000mAh Soldering Lug Z Shape Aku Battery | eBay
    I'm considering stacking them up inside the Steerer tube of my bike, but I would need to figure it out how the create the connections. "


    Reply from ledoman:


    OK. Let stay for a moment here, regardless there is new battery thread. I should post it here.

    Yes I think it is possible to use those cells stacked, but there are few things to tell/ask.

    1. If the chemistry (don't want Li-Ion) is of main concern then good Ni-Mh can be used
    2. Energy wise Li-Ion are much better. For example same 3000mAh Li-Ion cell has 3.7V nominal and weigts 45gr while this Ni-Mh has 1.2V and weights 58gr. So the ratio is higher than 3/1.
    3. You would need to stack from 3 to 6 Ni-Mh cells (depends on light and driver) which would be long from 135 to 270mm while Li-ion would be from 70-140mm.
    4. To stack them I would use capton tape to isolate wiring and nickel or copper stripes and solder to the tabs.

    Hope it helps.


    My answer:

    Quote Originally Posted by ledoman View Post
    Energy wise Li-Ion are much better. For example same 3000mAh Li-Ion cell has 3.7V nominal and weigts 45gr while this Ni-Mh has 1.2V and weights 58gr. So the ratio is higher than 3/1.
    Very good point

    3. You would need to stack from 3 to 6 Ni-Mh cells (depends on light and driver) which would be long from 135 to 270mm while Li-ion would be from 70-140mm.
    go it!
    Ok let me forget about Sub C then. Going back to the best of best 18650 3400 MAh Panasonic's, I can fit 3 of them inside the Steerer tube, not the ideal 4x.
    3x of 3400MAh would be enough to power a 8x LED Head unit?

  9. #9
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    You should tell us much more about your light or send a link. In general there you need 1 battery cell per led to get somewhat decent runtime. Of course it really much depends on the power you need/want.

  10. #10
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    So I purchased these...suppose to be 3400 mAh...but this is what the display shows me a full charge. Something is wrong right?


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    Quote Originally Posted by andrepsz View Post
    So I purchased these...suppose to be 3400 mAh...but this is what the display shows me a full charge. Something is wrong right?

    The display on that charger is showing how much was put into the battery to bring them up to full charge, so assuming those were brand new batteries which usually come with a 50% charge, that looks about right.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwarwick View Post
    The display on that charger is showing how much was put into the battery to bring them up to full charge, so assuming those were brand new batteries which usually come with a 50% charge, that looks about right.
    That is very helpful! I was about to complain to the seller, thanks

  13. #13
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    You should use TEST feature on this charger to get capacity readings. BTW, BT-C3100 would show you a bit more than it is real. I would say about 5-10%, depends on resistors used in particular sample.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by ledoman View Post
    You should use TEST feature on this charger to get capacity readings. BTW, BT-C3100 would show you a bit more than it is real. I would say about 5-10%, depends on resistors used in particular sample.

    This is the test reading from the original batteries coming with my light (not Panasonic). By weighting the batteries some where around 30g and I mistrust the real capacity on them (suppose to be 3400 mAh).

  15. #15
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    Doesn't look like the test is done in that photo. Looks to be in progress.

    -Garry
    "My Bike Lights" Thread on BLF teardowns, measurements, and beamshots. Moving my photos, PM or post up if you can't see them.

  16. #16
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    I'm new to batteries...figure of get this charger to learn faster! Any input from you guys is much appreciated...thanks!

  17. #17
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    OK, to put it in the right way. My protected Panasonic cell weights about 49-53g, I guess the protection can't do the 23g. You can post the link where you get yours from. Might be helpful for others. And I post another useful link for cells and chargers reviews. Yes, it was posted many times here on forum:

    Battery test-review 18650 summary

  18. #18
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    I am seriously considering the new battery packs that Ledoman and Kaidomain have been working on. I was wondering what are people's preference for a SAFE charger for them? Thanks!

    BTW, the battery packs are for my two Designshine lights.

  19. #19
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    I'm not aware of any cheap and safe charger that works at higher currents (ie.2-3A). Maybe some of the guys here would direct you to some sources. It also depends where on the planet you live. Maybe you can find something here: Feeler thread about 8.4V 2A Li-Ion charger for 2SxP battery packs

  20. #20
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    Thanks for the quick reply ledoman! I know that I can order chargers from the Chinese firms such as Hunk Lee (sp?) but am not sure about the quality. An alternative would be from Gemini Lights but the shipping from Victoria, BC to Singapore where I now reside would be crazy in relation to the value of the charger. I might as well order their batteries at the same time too! hehehe

  21. #21
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    The charger of Hunk Lee looks pretty much the same as the one I've tested. Of course I can't say internals are the same, but price wise it better to be good.
    I'm going to try to arrange some charger at Kaidomain, but it might take quite some time.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by MK96 View Post
    OK, to put it in the right way. My protected Panasonic cell weights about 49-53g, I guess the protection can't do the 23g. You can post the link where you get yours from. Might be helpful for others. And I post another useful link for cells and chargers reviews. Yes, it was posted many times here on forum:

    Battery test-review 18650 summary

    Charger was purchased from here:
    http://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/390881839694

    And Panasonic batteries from here:
    http://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/111845715744

  23. #23
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    The Battery Thread 2016 and Beyond

    Ok so here is an 'case study': left these batteries on 'discharge refresh' mode for a long time, I understand this mode suppose to discharge and charge 3 times to fix any memory issues on the cells...correct? This is the reading a got at the end of the process.

    Status NULL wasn't showing in the beginning and I started all 4 at the same time.

    What interpretation should I have from this process?


    Batteries on charger:

  24. #24
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    ..that ultrafire are crap? Like you should already know this. Search around and you'll see that those batteries tend to contain a very small cell and rest is filled with flour or something :|

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by nathan89 View Post
    ..that ultrafire are crap? Like you should already know this. Search around and you'll see that those batteries tend to contain a very small cell and rest is filled with flour or something :|
    Yes I Know. I got some Panasonic 3400 mAh to replace these. Aware of the poor quality on ultrafires I'm running them on this charger to understand how to identify those issues...any help is appreciated! I'm new to batteries.

  26. #26
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    OK, it US seller. Do the full test with panasonics, charger seems to be working and xxx-fire cells are usually crap (400-800mAh is normal to get from it) The full discharge refresh should read around 2800-3000mAh with Pana cells.


  27. #27
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    Just running "Test" mode at 500mA current (or 1000mA if you are pretty sure they are quality batteries) should be sufficient. Even a 500mA test will identify Ultrafires or fake batteries. Don't get concerned if a 3,400mAh claimed battery tests at say 3,000mAh; you're looking for drastically lower capacities. You can also compare to user HKJ's tests/reviews here: Flashlight information .

    -Garry
    "My Bike Lights" Thread on BLF teardowns, measurements, and beamshots. Moving my photos, PM or post up if you can't see them.

  28. #28
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    andrepsz, I just don't get it. You are running all but TEST feature which will only get you information you are looking for. Refresh feature is worthless with Li-Ion batteries. It is meant for Ni-Mh type of cells. On the pictures I don't seen any result from the first attempt. To bad this charger shows results after full discharge at recharging stage. TEST mode consists of charge/discharge/charge cycle.

    I would advise you to test only two cells at a time. Use 2 outer bays and set them to 2000mAh. This will make TEST at 1000mAh. You will shorten process very much and you'll faster get results. From two you'll already aprox. know for the others.

  29. #29
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    Thanks Ledoman ...I don't get it...that's why I'm here! Have a lot on my plate right now with family, two kids under 3 to raise, work and projects...don't really have time to dig deep the Internet to master the knowledge on batteries. I will appreciate a lot any feedback from this thread that can speed up my understanding in this field.

    Ok...I will run the next test using your advice thanks.

  30. #30
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    Stick around and don't miss figures after discharge part. It should happen around 3 hours after discharge part starts.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by garrybunk View Post
    Just running "Test" mode at 500mA current (or 1000mA if you are pretty sure they are quality batteries) should be sufficient. Even a 500mA test will identify Ultrafires or fake batteries. Don't get concerned if a 3,400mAh claimed battery tests at say 3,000mAh; you're looking for drastically lower capacities. You can also compare to user HKJ's tests/reviews here: Flashlight information .

    -Garry

    Thanks Garry!

  32. #32
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    I am still wondering why your cells weigh 30g. Do the test and let us know the result if you have a bit of time. I know 3yo kids need a lot of time ;-)

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    ..because they're the "fake" ultrafire, that contain a small lithium cell and the rest is filled with flour, watch here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOshOXcSkDA&t=120

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    Naaah, I've lost a bit in this and thought Pana cells were about 30g. Sure, the xxx-fire cells that weigh less are fake and low capacity.

  35. #35
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    Added review of a 2S1P pack from Kaidomain:
    2S1P 8.4V 3500mAh Battery pack from Kaidomain

    Edit:
    Added to the list of reviews also: 6x NCR18650B 10200mah 8.4V pack
    Last edited by ledoman; 01-06-2016 at 07:04 AM.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by MK96 View Post
    Naaah, I've lost a bit in this and thought Pana cells were about 30g. Sure, the xxx-fire cells that weigh less are fake and low capacity.
    Panasonic cells are 46-47grams each, just weighed ncr18650b and ncr18650ga on my scale to be sure.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by MK96 View Post
    I am still wondering why your cells weigh 30g. Do the test and let us know the result if you have a bit of time. I know 3yo kids need a lot of time ;-)
    They do! 30g was on the ultrafire's.

  38. #38
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    Left these brand new pana cells on my bike light all day long to let it discharge then full charge to see the numbers, quite happy to see that even exceeded the claimed 3400mAh.
    I'm just wondering why the last cell had such a different discharge rate than the others?

  39. #39
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    Its because they were unbalanced. What is very concerning is it seems you well over discharged them. The cells shouldn't have exceeded capacity, they actually should come up a bit short.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by tigris99 View Post
    Its because they were unbalanced. What is very concerning is it seems you well over discharged them. The cells shouldn't have exceeded capacity, they actually should come up a bit short.
    The light was actually still going on but low when I took the batteries out. It wasn't fully discharged.

  41. #41
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    Are they protected cells?

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by tigris99 View Post
    Are they protected cells?
    Good question, those green pana cells all should be protected right? here is the link from where I got them:
    Brand New "4" Panasonic NCR18650B 3 7V 3400mAh Battery 18650 w Case | eBay

  43. #43
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    No, these are unprotected.

  44. #44
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    Omg.....



    You just trashed your cells. You can't just use these like any other battery. They have a minimum discharge voltage and such, just because they still power a light doesn't mean their not dead. CANNOT EVER GO BELOW 2.5V PER CELL. Preferably for safety not below 3v per cell at rest (2.5V under load)



    Need to have those cells properly disposed of before they start leaking gel.

    What you just did is exactly how people burn half their houses down or end up with poisoning from the gel, BY MAKING ASSUMPTIONS and messing with things (thus doing it wrong) they haven't taken the time to learn how to use.

  45. #45
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    Ledman , can I use this charger of hunk lee to charge my 6 pack batery from Kaidoman?
    Quote Originally Posted by ledoman View Post
    The charger of Hunk Lee looks pretty much the same as the one I've tested. Of course I can't say internals are the same, but price wise it better to be good.
    I'm going to try to arrange some charger at Kaidomain, but it might take quite some time.

  46. #46
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    Yes you can. If you are going to buy this one, please report it back what is it's actual output voltage. It would be valuable information to the other users. Please use some Digital Multimeter to measure voltage.

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by tigris99 View Post
    Omg.....
    You just trashed your cells. You can't just use these like any other battery. They have a minimum discharge voltage and such, just because they still power a light doesn't mean their not dead. CANNOT EVER GO BELOW 2.5V PER CELL. Preferably for safety not below 3v per cell at rest (2.5V under load)

    Need to have those cells properly disposed of before they start leaking gel.

    What you just did is exactly how people burn half their houses down or end up with poisoning from the gel, BY MAKING ASSUMPTIONS and messing with things (thus doing it wrong) they haven't taken the time to learn how to use.
    Tig, I don't think there was some big problem. Maybe you missed my note that BT-C3100 chargers has somewhat to high readings. Also charging part has some looses.

    And we don't know what was happening there for shure. Only andrepsz could tell some details and what was their voltage. It is also unknow if they were at rest for some time or went immediately to the charger. Voltage raise to some degree when cells are left to rest for some time.
    The forth cell can be still good. It might be there was bad contact or something and it wasn't fully discharged.
    andrepsz should also tell what is his battery pack setup and/or what lights he is using. We don't know nothing about them.

  48. #48
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    The Battery Thread 2016 and Beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by ledoman View Post
    Tig, I don't think there was some big problem. Maybe you missed my note that BT-C3100 chargers has somewhat to high readings. Also charging part has some looses.

    And we don't know what was happening there for shure. Only andrepsz could tell some details and what was their voltage. It is also unknow if they were at rest for some time or went immediately to the charger. Voltage raise to some degree when cells are left to rest for some time.
    The forth cell can be still good. It might be there was bad contact or something and it wasn't fully discharged.
    andrepsz should also tell what is his battery pack setup and/or what lights he is using. We don't know nothing about them.

    Skyray King 8xcree , with pana batteries in it.

    Cells went straight from the light to charger with no rest, they are new. Like I said before they were still holding up some decent light right before putting in the charger...I'm quite surprised by the number as well, shouldn't be that high.

  49. #49
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    I had li-ion cells from a failed laptop pc battery, they are about 8 years now. Heavily discharged Sanyos to anything around 0-1 Volts unloaded. I've put them in the charger to test and charge with a very low current and saved 3 from 6. The 0V were dead the other with higher voltage are just fine and sit at 2200mAh now with no signs of damage and good discharge curve. Suspicious might be the cell on the right side of the photo that got actually only 2500mAh charge. You might test that one - do a chage/discharge/charge to see what is left in it. If the 3400 Pana has only 2500mAh left, it might be slightly damaged.

  50. #50
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    If the King uses cells in parallel at least the current was distributed between the 4 cells equally. Just test the cells properly (do charge test and quick test to get capacity and internal resistance) in the Opus charger if they have some sign of damage.

    Quote Originally Posted by andrepsz View Post
    Skyray King 8xcree , with pana batteries in it.

    Cells went straight from the light to charger with no rest, they are new. Like I said before they were still holding up some decent light right before putting in the charger...I'm quite surprised by the number as well, shouldn't be that high.

  51. #51
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    andrepsz, now you only need to show us how your light looks inside. Does it have battery holder and in what setup the cells are put in. Are in series or in parallel.

    I can speculate all cells are in parallel and the forth one had bad contact.

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by ledoman View Post
    andrepsz, now you only need to show us how your light looks inside. Does it have battery holder and in what setup the cells are put in. Are in seriaes or in parallel.

    I can speculate all cells are in parallel and the forth one had bad contact.
    Look above, Skyray King.

  53. #53
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    There is so many Skyray kings out there and they are Chinese so you never know....

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by ledoman View Post
    There is so many Skyray kings out there and they are Chinese so you never know....
    full tittle on the light was: 'Skyray King 9800 Lumens 8x CREE XM-L XML T6 LED Flashlight Spotlight Hunting Lamp Tactical Torch Light Aluminum Alloy Searchlight Lantern For Outdoor'

    I know it can't be 9800 Lumens but after some research looks like each Led can generate 1000...so this one is 8000 for sure...right? please say yes!

  55. #55
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    It is really little more difficult than you think. Chinese light specs vary from batch to batch and there exist a bunch of their clones where they go as cheap as they can. Cree XM-L LEDs are capable to output 1000lm but at 3.5V@3A and that means 10W of power needed. If you have 8 LEDs then math do 80W of total consumed power and there is some overhead for the electronic circuit that drives these LEDs and you can end up with 100W. I would guess King might be 30W.

  56. #56
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    OK, here is battery thread. Andrepsz again, why can't you tell what I'm asking. Open your light and see how the battery container is constructed. If you don't know, make some pictures so we could find out. This is essential to uderstand how things are working.

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by ledoman View Post
    OK, here is battery thread. Andrepsz again, why can't you tell what I'm asking. Open your light and see how the battery container is constructed. If you don't know, make some pictures so we could find out. This is essential to uderstand how things are working.

    taken from the internet: http://i00.i.aliimg.com/img/pb/676/1...146676_134.jpg.

    Sorry I don't have the light with me right now

  58. #58
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    My thing is knowing what he did and having torture tested cells just to see how Panasonic cells handled being pushed too hard, they can and the worst one(s) probably will start leaking gel being over discharged then charged. The gel being toxic and highly corrosive its not even worth the risk to try and save them.



    he may have managed to only hit the bottom limit of the cells and they may be ok, but the next person who reads this thread not knowing what hes doing (like andre) could turn around and do it with cheap cells and burn their house down. That's part of why I make such a big deal because its extremely high risk and for every 1 of us that know what we are doing, there is 1000 people that don't and read these threads to learn. Hate reading about people getting chemical burns from leaking cells or like the latest thread, almost burning their house to the ground.

    Which is why I may sound rude and I apologize if so, but trying to be very stern. If you don't know fully how do use li-ion cells, then ONLY USE PROTECTED CELLS AND AVOID CHEAP CHINESE BATTERY PACKS.

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    To bad. This picture doesn't tell us for sure, but can you recall if the all cells had same orientation - posititive (button) side on top? If yes, then all cells are in paralell.

    Tig I understand your concerns, but here is not the tipical battery pack in question as you can see from the link above. And I AGREE with you. In this situation for Andre protected cells would be better. Since bare cells has flat top the contact to the driver might be bad and I suspect this is the reason why one cell has been discharged less than the others.

  60. #60
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    Thanks tigris99...I'm glad I'm here to post any possible stupidity I might do...and learn from it. Wish everyone did that instead of burning their houses!

    Ledoman...positive up on all of them. I'm disappointed that my cells aren't 'protected'...I assumed that all panasonic's were. what "protected" really means anyhow? and how to easily identify them when shopping for it? is it visible? can we see just my looking at a photo?

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    Thanks a lot! should have gotten the protected one. It seems like this Skyray King works better with a longer battery. I had some issues with connectivity since the positive head side is very shallow...comparing with the protected version. Fixed the problem already. thanks!

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    You should tell as more at the begining. Hope we have solved your issues and we can finish this discussion now.

  64. #64
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    I know this is suppose to be 'battery only' thread...but just for information...I just left my Skyray King turned ON for 5h30min straight without any noticeable drop in light...left at mid power. I would assume that it was throwing around 4000 lumens all this time since its a 8 x cree model.

    Thoughts? Good stuff...normal? Bad? I don't really have an ideia

  65. #65
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    I would assume that it was throwing around 4000 lumens all this time since its a 8 x cree model.
    If that light did 4000 lumen on the highest setting, I would be surprised. Your 4 cells combined have ~50 Whr of usable power. IF you ran the light for 5 hours on the middle setting and the batteries were discharged to ~2,5V, then you had ~10W of output at the middle setting. 10W is going to be more like 1500 lumen at best and most likely lower. Since your test ran longer than 5 hours and your batteries apparently are not discharged to ~2.5V then your mid setting must be less than 10W
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  66. #66
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    The Battery Thread 2016 and Beyond

    Full power should be 9000, but I found somewhere that's each led might be producing 1000 in this Skyray...so that would be 8000 real Throw at full power. Don't believe it's dropping all the way to 1500 at mid position( there is only 3; Off, mid and high).

    I need to remember...and learn how to check the cells usage after taking them off the light. I'm intrigued now!

  67. #67
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    That light maybe produces 4000 lumens on high.

    Just because the emitters CAN produce 1000 lumens each DOES NOT MEAN THEY ARE IN A GIVEN LIGHT. Its determined by the driver. And there is NO WAY IN HE** that light is pushing 3 amps per emitter on high, you would be able to cook your breakfast on it easily.

    What's vanc said especially looking at your picture is about right. 1200-1500 lumens mid level at best.

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by andrepsz View Post
    Full power should be 9000, but I found somewhere that's each led might be producing 1000 in this Skyray...so that would be 8000 real Throw at full power.
    Not trying to piss in your Cheerios, but not a chance. Like I said earlier 4000 lumen would be surprising. If it was driven hard enough to crank out 8000 lumen it would be drawing >24A and would burn through the batteries in about a half hour.

    Start a new thread about your light and some of the more experienced members here can guide you to better estimate the output at each setting.

    Apologies to the OP for dragging his thread further off-topic.
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  69. #69
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    I SINCERLY HOPE YOU WOULD MOVE DISCUSSION TO SOME OTHER PLACE.

    I'm eaching to answer about it, but BudgetLightForum.com is THE right place to discuss it, so PLEASE move there. There is also much more users who deals with flashlights.

  70. #70
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    How this is not on topic? Understanding how 4x panasonic 3400 can light up for 5h30min at X amount of Lumens ? its a case to be analyzed to say the least. Now yes...If I want to start talking about this specific Skyray King Light..yes that's off topic and I'll look for other threads. I don't have to apologize to the OP, I do have to say again thank you for explaining to me the basics and providing resources for me to read when I have some time.

    Cheers...getting lost now.

  71. #71
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    Well tho is just supposed to be batteries only, lumen output is way off topic.

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by andrepsz View Post
    How this is not on topic? Understanding how 4x panasonic 3400 can light up for 5h30min at X amount of Lumens ? its a case to be analyzed to say the least. Now yes...If I want to start talking about this specific Skyray King Light..yes that's off topic and I'll look for other threads. I don't have to apologize to the OP, I do have to say again thank you for explaining to me the basics and providing resources for me to read when I have some time.

    Cheers...getting lost now.
    Before you get too excited you need to look at the exchange rate for Chinese lumens to actual lumens. I think they are about the same as the Mexican peso to the US dollar.

  73. #73
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    Updated first post with new breif review:

    2S2P 4x NCR18650B 6800mAh Flat battery pack from Kaidomain

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    Do you have a specific charger thread? I can't seem to find it, so I'll post this here, and see what happens

    Other than the low quality build, ( which can be worked on if needed), those chinese chargers are unsafe because they give varying voltage outputs.

    But what if we use this?Name:  Izrezak.PNG
Views: 1497
Size:  9.2 KB

    Its very easy to make, quite cheap, and you can adjust the output voltage to desired 8,4V, and then either use a fixed value resistor, or just leave the variable, but don't touch it.

    Since the input/output voltage difference is less than 10V, the LM is good for up to 4,5A, which is a overkill. Just need a heat sink and it's good to go...

  75. #75
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    We do have chargers thread Feeler thread about 8.4V 2A Li-Ion charger for 2SxP battery packs and hopefuly we will have new one this year. Maybe we should move discussion there. Would you make a copy of your post and I'll answer there.

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by ledoman View Post
    I SINCERLY HOPE YOU WOULD MOVE DISCUSSION TO SOME OTHER PLACE.

    I'm eaching to answer about it, but BudgetLightForum.com is THE right place to discuss it, so PLEASE move there. There is also much more users who deals with flashlights.
    I agree. At this point the discussion is more about the lamp ( torch ) and what output it has. Move it to the "Cheap-O Chinese lamp" thread. FWIW, the seller/manufacturer of the torch claims it can output 9600 lumen ( that's almost too funny ). My bet you might get an actual 1500-2000 on high if lucky. Low is likely about 300-400 lumen, which helps explain the long run time.

  77. #77
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    So, as mentioned, I got my chinese crap pack. Before I order the ledoman pack, what can and should I do with this one? I would like to add a balancing plug. I suppose I have to open up the pack, and solder the wires to b+/- and add a wire from ++/-- connection to BM point on the PCB. What if there isn't any? Should I do a discharge/charge cycle? I know the pack is bad, but I would like to make the best of it for now.

  78. #78
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    First tear down the pack and measure the voltages of each cells pair. Make some pictures of the bare pack with wireing and post it here. If you can, make good macro picture of PCM to show electronic elements (it is not called PCB).
    Then we will tell you for further steps.

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by ledoman View Post
    If you can, make good macro picture of PCM to show electronic elements (it is not called PCB).
    PCB generally stands for 'printed circuit board', and is pretty valid name here.

  80. #80
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    Ok, but I've mostly seen it as PCM (Protection Circuit Module) which is probably aimed to tell you what it is used for. PCB is also used for boards where leds are mounted, though, so very generic.

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    thnx archie for stepping up olready copied the wiki link for PCB. PCM is pulse code modulation

    But the main thing is we understand each other. ... I'm going to dissasemble it ASAP

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    Ok.. here it is. I have a problem, and that problem is easily solved, but requires soldering. Not sure how much heat can the battery take and not get damaged. I believe it wont heat up much, but.. opinions? I have to cut the BM contact in order to turn the protection circuit around.

    The cells are pink. are they samsung.. LG or some chinese knockoff?

    The voltages are pretty consistent, one 2P is 4.10V, the other 4.14V

    The Battery Thread 2016 and Beyond-cdedacaf97f93ba9680cf4e3d2bf06cf4f282d60d11425836493ac370a9bc5cc.jpgThe Battery Thread 2016 and Beyond-4ace17744cab18baa3bd43cb736276f482a7166d853e36f31a77616012af849a.jpgThe Battery Thread 2016 and Beyond-e3c9db6333d69536ae5eb897e2d444d5edad248839183262d8de448c00091ae9.jpg

  83. #83
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    f... it..


    I broke it of, solder it later...

    can't make a better macro. my camera is crappy, and phone hasn't got a macro...The Battery Thread 2016 and Beyond-zoom-pcm.jpg

    now I have to make some kind of a glove...from a surgical glove

    blah, no macro option on my phone, but a magnifier app on the phone so good it would make awesome macros

    the smallest IC says 2120 CB, and two other are marked 8205A 1545

  84. #84
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    Looks like corrosion on one pair of cells???

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    Dunno. I packed them away. I think it was some kind of soldering paste..

    edit:

    Yup, 'twas corrosion. Cleaned up most of it, and repacked the batteries.

  86. #86
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    Get rid of those batteries, they are already leaking.

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    hmmmmm I wouldn't be so sure. The only corroded part was the top of the battery ( it looks like a metal dome on 4 "legs" atop of the battery. The flat part on which it resides is nice and shiney. I would sooner say that the corrosion occurred due to the glue with which the top foil was glued

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    http://g02.s.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1ewHHH...ttery-3-7V.jpg

    this is what I'm talking about.. the 4 point "dome". Underneath it, the metal is absolutely clean without signs of corrosion

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    The cells are Chinese estimating based on previously seen at about 1100-1200mAh each so up to 2400mAh for the pack at best.

    Voltage would be consistent if the difference was 0.01V or less.

    Since there are no markings on the cells I can only guess but those cells behaves quite well at very low current. At the higger currents around 1A and above they have prety low capacity. Take a look at Review: 4 (2S2P) and 6 cell (2S3P) hardshell waterproof bicycle battery packs from GB

    I would use this pack for very short rides and with weak lights only. They are also good for limited testing purposes.

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    ok, so I have to charge them at about 0,75-1A max. even at the lowest setting the light is pretty bright for my kind of riding...

    the seller refunded me half the price, so at 9,5$ the light and the pack is awesome

  91. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChILd_ReBoRn View Post
    hmmmmm I wouldn't be so sure. The only corroded part was the top of the battery ( it looks like a metal dome on 4 "legs" atop of the battery. The flat part on which it resides is nice and shiney. I would sooner say that the corrosion occurred due to the glue with which the top foil was glued

    You'll find out soon enough that the battery pack needs to be disposed of and its already leaking. That corrosion is either due leaking cells, not the adhesive used to assemble them.

    Just a heads up cause the crap they leak is toxic.

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    k.. wont lick them

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    From time to time, ultra-cheap Chinese batteries and chargers could be really dangerous:
    Battery pack from cheap Chinese light nearly burns down a guy's house!

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    listen guys, let's not get overly excited. I'm not some economics graduate who hasn't got a clue about anything other than numbers. No offense to economists. I'm an electrician, and I'm well aware of LiION dangers. I was charging my battery by my side, in a metal pot, covered with a metal lid. I was by her side all the time, constantly checking the battery/charger temperature. I will change the pack first chance I got, but I'm no Gates, and I don't have any excess money. Momenterally.. 30$ is as much as 3000$. After my paycheck, IF there's anything left after my mortgage, and gas/electricity/garbage disposal/phone/ineternet/mobile phone/water/all kind of crap bills, I'll get the better pack.. OK? then.. the spring will come, longer days, and I won't need the light until next winter...

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    Ok.

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    Good, I did my first controlled discharge using the turnigy charger. The Voltage shown on the LCD was 6.xxV. Forgot was it .37 or .73V. Besides the point, anyway. Why can't I measure any voltage with my voltmeter? Could it be that the PCM cuts off any voltage drain as to prevent battery damage? I tried to plug the pack in the lamp, and all three leds are turned off. If the lack of voltage isn't PCM's doing, what has happened?

  97. #97
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    What LCD is showing that voltage because if it cut off and your reading that high, the pack is way outta balance?

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    the charger LCD. I was doing a discontinued discharge, since I was fiddling with the settings. But the longest one ( from somwhere around 7,8V to the end) was the one that was the final one. So the discharge went on 0,6A ( although I set up a 1A, but the charger went to 0,6A and stopped), and when I woke up 6 hrs later, the LCD was shoving as follows:
    blinking END 2S, voltage (aforementioned 6,37 or ,73 I forgott ), discharged capacity ( around 1580 mAh, plus around 900mAh discharged at the first attempt), and discharge time.

    I could buy the balance plug, solder it on the battery connectors and plug it into the charger, and see what happens. Does the plug have some kind of a code name? I knoe I need a male 3 pin connector, but don't know the size...

  99. #99
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    I never use a balance plug, but just get one for a 2s lipo battery set up. I use the clips that I have for my charger with the pack open, charge the low side till its voltage (resting, tested on a DMM, not charger) matches that of the side that was higher. THen finish charging pack normally, check each bank again to make sure their in balance and done.

    You should set your charger to discharge to 3.0per cell (6V in this case), discharge then fully recharge. Will give you a better idea of the actual capacity.

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    He has his sharger set to 3.0V. Charger has only 5W of discharge power so 0.6A is the best it can do.

    I agree, one more full charge/discharge cycle would be good. But anyway I can predict you'll get around 2400mAh out of crapy chinese battery pack with unlabeled pinky cells.

    ChILd_ReBoR, after 1st charge phase, you can run few short charges with 0.5A to top up the pack. Then you should measure voltage of the pack. If it is still below 4.35V then it is very likely unbalanced. Disassemble pack and charge each pair separately as 1S (single cell). Be careful when making contacts not to make a short.

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