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The Battery Thread: 2013

161K views 1K replies 131 participants last post by  ledoman 
#1 · (Edited)
I thought it a good idea to start a thread on replacement batteries since a lot of people are considering changing or upgrading the battery for their light system. If you need information on batteries for a new light or just a replacement for the old one this is the place to ask questions. If you have links or suggestions on where to get good batteries ( or not so good...;) ) please feel free to post a suggestion.

For the sake of convenience most discussion will likely revolve around Li-ion batteries so I'm supplying a link to "Battery University" for people who might first want to read up on the technology. Regardless if you have posts or questions having to do with other battery chemistries please feel free to post up.

Likely there will be several conversations going on at the same time about different battery set ups. Just make sure you quote or mention "@" whoever you want to comment about. This will help keep all the conversations in order and avoid confusion.

Vendors with special offers on batteries please feel free to post up. I'm going to try to keep a list of Links that offer compatible batteries that work with the standard MagicShine/Bikeray/Xeccon/Clone ...etc...connectors. The list will be right here in the first post. I'll try to update it every week or so if it becomes a popular thread. Hopefully with people chiming in we will get quite a list going. If this works maybe get the moderator to make it a sticky. Thanks. CAt.

...................THE BATTERY LIST

Batteries will be listed in order of capacity, cell type and number, and voltage. To keep things more informative I've decided to issue alerts if any of the batteries listed have any disputed quality issues. The alert will look like this> ( ALERT) .
This doesn't mean if you buy one you will get a bad battery. It is just a warning. Buy at your own risk.

High-Capacity 10000mAh Li-ion.........4 x 26650.........7.4 volts..........MS type connectors ( verified )
( ALERT)

Gemini 7800mAh Li-ion......6 x 18650 ( Samsung cells ) ....7.4 volts.....MS type connectors ( verified )

Xeccon 6600mAh Li-ion.........6 x 18650 BAK cells.......7.4 volts.......MS type connectors ( verified )

Gloworm 5800mAh Li-ion......4 x 18650 ( Panasonic cells )......7.4 volts......MS type connectors ( verified )

ActionLED (MagicShine) 5600mAh Li-ion.......4 x 18650 Samsung cells.....7.4 volts....MS connectors ( verified )

Bikeray 5200mAh Li-ion.......4 x 18650 ( BAK?) cells.......7.4 volts.......MS type connectors ( verified )

Waterproof 5200mAh Li-ion.........4 x 18650.........7.4 volts........*MS type connectors ( *not verified )

Ballistic Batteries: 5200mAh Li-ion.........4 x 18650........7.4 volts........MS type connectors ( verified )

Open Light 4500mAh Li-ion.........4 x 18650 ( Panasonic cells ).......7.4 volts........MS type connectors ( verified )

Tenergy 4400mAh Li-ion.........4 x 18650 (square)........7.4 volts..........no connectors

Xeccon 4400mAh Li-ion.........4 x 18650 BAK cells (square)......7.4 volts......MS type connectors ( verified )

Ballistic Batteries: 4400mAh Li-ion........4 x 18650 ( square ).......7.4 volts.......MS type connectors ( verified )

Deal Extreme 4400mAh Li-ion.......4 x 18650.........7.4 volts..........MS type connectors ( verified )

Tenergy 2800mAh...........2 x 18650 ( Samsung )........7.4 volts...........no connectors
 
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#237 ·
Sorry for being slow with emails guys! I'll send them now. I have an essay due on Friday and my time management is terrible! So without further ado here are the measurements and all pics. If you want one in the UK just paypal me ollyboyd@hotmail.co.uk £12 (sent as goods) with your address in the paypal address bit and I'll send them out the next day (email me for combined postage). I have more on their way arriving tomorrow so there are enough to go round.
If you want one with Panasonic batteries I'm afraid you'll have to wait :(

Album is here -> Battery Box - Imgur

More details of fit and finish are in my previous post.

Dimensions
With nylon case
53mm depth
56.5mm width
118mm height

Bare box
Height 109mm
Depth (including strap loop) 50.6mm
Width 49.1mm

Cable thickness 4.19mm

Width of the tunnely hole thing on the side you could use for webbing: 18.4mm
Max thickness of webbing you could use: 3mm

Max width of battery that would fit 18.60mm
Max battery height with springs fully compressed=total height of compartment-(height of compressed springs+height of the lid's protruded battery contacts)
=72.51mm-(1.60+1.11)=69.8mm

I've repeated the battery length measurement many times so Panasonics will fit JUST. Of course the lid has 7.87mm over overlap with the case body so the fit isn't crucial but it would be nice to get the lid fully tightened.

I have destroyed my case in the name of testing to get pics of the circuit board at the bottom. It is stuck to the bottom with those sponge sticky pads. You would need to heat it with a hairdryer to remove it without damaging your case.

The length of cable from tip to base is 52cm.
I can also confirm that the box does support the use of just two batteries in series.

I would describe the soldering as robust :p

The box's connector fits the X2s perfectly.

Cheers, Ollie
 
#239 ·
...The length of cable from tip to base is 52cm.
I can also confirm that the box does support the use of just two batteries in series.

I would describe the soldering as robust :p

The box's connector fits the X2s perfectly.

Cheers, Ollie
To people who don't know; reason this ( highlighted ) is so important is because it means you really don't have to worry about lack of a PCB if you chose to go that route. When your lamp becomes noticeably dimmer you can stop, drop out the 4 cells and replace them with just two fresh cells. This should be enough for you to get back to your starting point without too much problem. Just remember with just two cells going you will have half the run time. Still, all said you can carry as many spare cells as you think necessary.

On a planned 3 hour ride just 4 good Panasonic's should get you through ( assuming you don't run high 100% of the time ). On a 4 to 5hrs ride bring a couple extra cells and you should be fine. I ran my Gloworm X2 on low using an old MS two cell battery (2200mAh? ) and it ran for over 4 hours. If I had used a medium setting I might have gotten maybe 2 hrs. With better cells likely a bit more.

@Lord Marmaduke, thanks for all the info on this battery holder. :thumbsup:
 
#446 · (Edited)
Wow that seems fast. Good for you!
I ordered a bike mirror 30 days ago and the tracking only now says that it left Singapore a few days ago.
Especially with the Xmas traffic. I don't have much hope that my stuff will arrive this year.
The light is here (Jexree Owl), 2 of them actually, but no way to use them till I get the other stuff. To make things worst, I ordered every thing from a different supplier (no one had all 4 part that I needed).
For battery I got from Banggood.com that someone else linked earlier (with the coupon). Much cheaper than Hunk Lee. 8-cell (3400mAh Panasonic) Protected Ended up costing $50. Hunk Lee has basically the same pack 13600mAh for $86 (not the protected cell, but a soldered protection circuit).
As this is a high capacity pack, I didn't want the cheapest chines charger (most are just 1A), but rather got a Magicshine charger clone that does 1.8A ( MagicShine MJ 6012 Replacement Charger for MagicShine LED Bike Headlight | eBay ).
Considering the long run. I had a wild idea. I used to RC way back and remember how important balancing was. Batteries didn't last long and every extra MINUTE that you could fly your plain mattered (I had a jet for example that was 8 minutes max with one charger, but it did go up to 100mph). Anyway, back to the topic. With my limited knowledge of electronics, especially batteries. I considered that balancing would indeed be useful for bike light packs, however certainly not as much as in the RC LiPos case.
Charging this 13.6A cell would take forever (see MegaVolts explanation a few post above this post), so would be a drag to do after every ride. However I think I would get more or less the same result if I did it once a month or once every 2 months. With that I would still get the same end results. That is a relatively balances pack at any given time. But without the downside of 24+ hours charging after each ride.
I decided not to solder the cells together, but rather get 2 of the waterproof 4-cell container mentioned somewhere in the tread ( Water Resistant 4 x 18650 Battery Pack Case House Cover for Bike Lamp | eBay ). Yes I know that protected cell is a tight fit, but it can fit.
This way I don't need to solder balance wires, I don't need extra shrink warping and waterproofing.
I just use the box as normal (light and charge) and if I want to balance, then I open it and take out the cells.
Also it makes the system completely reconfigurable. I can replace the cells individual if any/all go bad.
All I need to buy now is a reliable but cheap balancer (maybe the B6).

TO sum it up, I believe this a way better route that Hunk Lee. To make a direct comparison:

  • a.) Hunk Lee 13600mAh Panasonic 8-cell pack, with protection circuit and simple shrink wrap-----------$86

  • b.) 13600mAh Panasonic 8-cell, with individual cell protection and with 2x 4-cell solid waterproof casing with Velcro bike attachment included---------------$50+ (2x $13) = $76

The later not only being cheaper, but has a case and bag that is waterproof and is reusable/reconfigurable (with new cells), practical forever. I almost went the Mr. Lee route, but Dir brought my attention to the fact that that his (Hunk Lee) options are not as cheap as they are made out to be.

P.S: I want to say thank you to all you guys. You were all great help!
 
#473 ·
Fwiw I have been running the olympia about 3 hours on high give or take on the 6 cell Gemini battery, the older 8400? Mah version that came with the 8.7v charger. The catch to all this is that the runtime drops drastically in cold weather. What gives you 3 hours in 70 degree ambient temps will give you 2 in brutal cold. I am not sure if this is a concern where you live but a definite issue for me.

If you are settled on a single pack the large hunk lee pack looks promising but I tend to habe issues with the high current draw of the olympia not playing nice with a second light and y cable. I feel that two packs will be a better bet plus its safer should something go awry with one
 
#556 ·
I was just my bad luck then. I am considering ordering from them again. Maybe this time I get lucky.

We are in the same shoe. Only I got my panovo but not the cells. Anyway I wouldn't bother with balancing them now. Maybe every 3 months if fine (to take out of case and use other charger). You might consider getting and intelli charger 2 or 4 cell. This nitecore one come highly recommended and is cheap too: Nitecore I4 Intellicharger 4 Slot Universal Li ion Ni MH Ni CD Battery Charger | eBay

And don't forget you can use it ffor your NiMH needs too.
Just make sure you get V2 (first version had some problems)!

V2 review
 
#839 · (Edited)
As far as we know, there are no six cell battery boxes. But you could carry two extra cells and load them in the box when the other four are done. Or better yet, get two full sets of the Samsungs, giving you 10400 mAh for just under $30. Carry the extra four, and swap when needed.

The VP2 is considered a better charger than the VP4.
Review of Charger Xtar VP2
Review of Charger Xtar VP4

With four cells, the VP4 drops the current and lengthens the charge time. Charging two sets of two cells works out to be about the same time
 
#840 ·
The VP2 is considered a better charger than the VP4.
Review of Charger Xtar VP2
Review of Charger Xtar VP4

With four cells, the VP4 drops the current and lengthens the charge time. Charging two sets of two cells works out to be about the same time
Only "advantage" of the XTAR V2 is its ability to charge different voltages of cells. But as Garry mentioned above, you have to set the voltage manually and if you forget... well, you don't wanna forget. If you're only charging 18650 4.2v cells, it's less of a PITA to use XTAR's single voltage 4-cell charger then their quick charge 2-cell and have to switch them out to fill a 4-cell battery case. And the 4-cell charger is only four dollars more, so it's worth it to me for advoiding the little headache of the VP2. My three cents. ;-)
 
#841 ·
Here's the deal that was posted. With the coupon code the VP2 is much cheaper than a few bucks and the lowest price that I have seen.

It's the SolarStorm battery box for $9.99
Solarstorm New 2S2P 8.4V 2000mAh Dual Water-resistant 4 x 18650 External Battery Pack for Bicycle Light Digital Device-11.28 and Free Shipping| GearBest.com
Coupon: New2S2P

The XTAR VP2 for $25.79
Xtar VP2 2-Slot Intelligent LED Monitor Li-ion Battery Charger with Car Charger Used as Power Bank - US Plug-34.09 and Free Shipping| GearBest.com
Coupon: XVP2S

The Nitecore i4 for $17.98
EU Plug: New Version Nitecore i4 Intellicharger Digi Charger with Indicator for 26650 22650 18490 - EU Plug-21.77 and Free Shipping| GearBest.com
US Plug: New Version Nitecore i4 Intellicharger Digi Charger with Indicator for 26650 22650 18490 - US Plug-21.77 and Free Shipping| GearBest.com
Coupon: NVNCM

This way you have a choice of a 2 cell or 4 cell charger. The XTAR should charge 4 batteries faster than the Nitecore. There are more expensive options yet both are good budget options.
 
#2 ·
I have a couple Gemini Xera's that I use and have a few battery packs that I've put together. The most recent was this pack, All-Battery.com: AT: Tenergy Li-Ion 18650 7.4V 4400mAh Square PCB Protected Rechargeable Battery Module w/ 20AWG Bare Leads which seemed for the price a great deal. I soldered on a magicshine connector and all has been good. I get 14 hours of run time with the xera on low. (great for multiday bikepacking races where you inevitably end up riding long hours at night).
However, I was looking to build a 2 cell pack to mount on my helmet (to eliminate the weight of the extension cable) and saw these with Samsung cells All-Battery.com: AT: Samsung Li-Ion 18650 Cylindrical 7.4V 2800mAh Flat Top Rechargeable Battery w/ PCM Protection. Little more expensive, but higher energy density...
Thoughts on that? Is there a better source for these?
 
#4 ·
Good find if you have some DIY skills and the connectors. For people wondering where to get the connectors you just buy a MS type extension cord from almost anywhere for a couple bucks, cut the plug off that you need and splice the two sides together.

Interesting that All Battery is offering these at such a good price. A while back you had to kill to get a square four cell from All Battery. Still all things considered there are other good quality square four cell batteries available with the plugs already supplied. You'll see that once the list starts to get bigger. That two cell 2800mAh Samsung battery is a pretty good deal and will be hard to beat.

Thanks for posting those listings. Your recommendations are the first on the list > ( see post #1 )
 
#7 ·
Interesting link. The only thing that bothers me is the connector, which looks to be square.:confused: I own a MagicShine 808E which does not use a square connector. Tex, do you own one of these?

I have the original Magicshine headlight, without a battery and could use a recommendation. I don't need the highest level of performance as this will be used for commuting. Two hr. at high power would be great.
Well it all depends on how much money you want to spend. If you want to go cheap you could try something like this. I didn't put it in the " Battery list " because they don't list a capacity for the battery. It could be 4400mAh or maybe 4000mAh. If 4000mAh you should still get 2 hrs out of it. No telling what brand batteries these are. Buy one of these and you are rolling the dice. ;)

I've up-dated the battery list ( in post #1 ). A couple there you might be interested in.
 
#8 ·
I bought a couple of magicshines from geoman so was involved in the recall and received the replacement batteries. Never had a problem with the original batteries but one of the replacements died almost immediately - Sad because the casing/mount is really neat and now is just a chunk of useless plastic with a velcro strap. I ordered a replacement from ballistic batteries but haven't used it yet.
 
#9 ·
I bought a couple of magicshines from geoman so was involved in the recall and received the replacement batteries. Never had a problem with the original batteries but one of the replacements died almost immediately - Sad because the casing/mount is really neat and now is just a chunk of useless plastic with a velcro strap. I ordered a replacement from ballistic batteries but haven't used it yet.
I just took a quick look-see at the "Ballistic batteries" website. Looks to be pretty much hobby batteries. They do offer a "replacement MagicShine battery" but the one in the photo they show looks like it is a 4 cell "flat pack",
( rather than the typical square pack ). As long as you have no problem mounting a "flat pack" then it should work just fine.
 
#10 ·
I like the flat 4 cell packs for use with a helmet light. Fits more nicely than a 4 cell cube when carried in the jersey pocket.

For those using individual 18650s, I'll give a shout out for the Callies Kustoms Panasonic 3400mA cells. They run my micro helmet light nearly twice as long as my *****fire "2600mA" cells. Much more expensive, but worth it IMO.
 
#11 ·
I like the flat 4 cell packs for use with a helmet light. Fits more nicely than a 4 cell cube when carried in the jersey pocket.

For those using individual 18650s, I'll give a shout out for the Callies Kustoms Panasonic 3400mA cells. They run my micro helmet light nearly twice as long as my *****fire "2600mA" cells. Much more expensive, but worth it IMO.
Agree on all points. Yep a flat pack in a pocket or backpack works fine but if you mount on a frame it is not as easy as a square pack although back in the day I used to frame mount a flat pack 4-cell Nimh battery.

Yep, when it comes to using single cells the Panasonics hands down are the batteries you want to use. I bought a set of 3100's last year and they are worth the extra money beyond a doubt. This year I will likely buy a set of 3400's just so I have some extra cells. Besides all my other cheap/single 18650's are getting quite old. Time for some more better cells. :thumbsup:
 
#14 ·
I've been using a Open Light System battery on my Betty for nearly two years without any issues. I use it most morning and it has been a great battery for me.
Here's a link I started a few years back on Open Light System:
http://forums.mtbr.com/lights-night-riding/open-light-systems-688984.html

I know they now have a USA site, which will make buying a little easier for the North American gang.
I would not hesitate to buy another from these guys.
Woody
 
#16 · (Edited)
I decided to be a guinea pig and buy one of the 10000mAh batteries from Lt-Box. It did not work when I received it. I contacted their customer service and they had me send them a video of it not working hooked to a charger and a light. Next they told me to send it back and they said they would pay for return shipping. I informed them that return shipping costs as much as the battery itself. They told me there is a cheaper method to ship it back to China but they can't tell me exactly what that method is. My last request was that they refund my money or send a new battery. I haven't gotten a response yet.

I figured I should warn others not to buy this battery or anything else from Lt-Box. Here are some pictures with the shrink wrap removed.
 
#19 · (Edited)
I decided to be a guinea pig and buy one of the 1000mAh batteries from Lt-Box. It did not work when I received it. I contacted their customer service and they had me send them a video of it not working hooked to a charger and a light. Next they told me to send it back and they said they would pay for return shipping. I informed them that return shipping costs as much as the battery itself. They told me there is a cheaper method to ship it back to China but they can't tell me exactly what that method is. My last request was that they refund my money or send a new battery. I haven't gotten a response yet.

I figured I should warn others not to buy this battery or anything else from Lt-Box....
I going to assume you had a type error and are referring to the 10000mAh battery. I agree with FuzzyD on this, the battery looks to be leaking and would be hazardous to return. Send them another e-mail with a photo and explain that returning the battery could be considered illegal.

If you do decide to return the battery just send it at the lowest postal rate available which is "First Class Mail® International Parcel". This should cost about $11.60 USD for a one pound parcel. Also, take a photo of the parcel with all the postage before you give to the post office. The Chinese like photos. It shows steps being done right.

Keep in mind that they did offer to pay postage. Perhaps they can e-mail you the postage label ( which is the easy way to do it ). Also keep in mind that you did tamper with the product by taking off the shrink wrap. As such most companies are not under obligation to accept a return if the product was tampered with.

Send it back, let them give you a new one. If they don't credit your paypal or credit card you can complain to paypal or the card company. This is called doing the Chinese jig...yes it's a PITA but at least the people at Light box are working with you. My guess is the battery got exposed to excessive heat somewhere along the line. Hope the next one is better. Let's not blacklist Ltbox unless they don't follow through with their obligations. ( ** In response to your post I issued a warning on this battery ( see list post #1 ). If the issue is resolved please let us know. )

@JamesBass > Yes, 8.4 volt is the peak voltage. I am listing only the nominal voltages but 8.4 volt is typical peak voltage for all 7.4 volt batteries. Some websites list the peak voltage others the nominal. That's just the way it is.
 
#18 ·
I'm no expert, but that battery looks as though it's leaking. Did you pay for ity on Visa? If all else fails, and Lt-Box refuse to refund your money, you could threaten to call your credit card company and dispute the charge for the battery. Merchants rightly fear this, since blacklisting from a card provider means loss of the ability to process credit card transactions from that company. However, as a first line of defense, I would still recommend diplomacy toward the merchant, and launching a dispute claim with Paypal. If Lt-Box are smart, they will be reasonable, and conclude that it's easier/cheaper for them to issue a refund rather than paying for the return of something that's broken and useless to them.
 
#23 ·
file a paypal dispute and get your money back. The "take pics/ send it back/ who pays for postage" dance around is a delaying tactic so that you'll go beyond the 45 day Paypal dispute window or just give up. If you don't get a refund notice on sending them the pictures, file a dispute. Most Chinese firms pay up within days, if that.

In the meantime, make sure you store the battery outside, far from the house/ garage, until you can safely dispose of or recycle it.
 
#24 ·
Come to think of it, new batteries shouldn't leak. A few MTBRers have made mention of Chinese vendors (allegedly) using rebuilt batteries (i.e. new casing, recycled cells). I wonder if this is the case with your battery? It'd be difficult to prove, but if the auction was advertising a new product, and they sent you recycled, that would be against eBay ToS.
 
#26 ·
go straight for the "I will reverse charges if I do not receive a full refund in 3 days" approach then. I know that we want to think only the best of people, but a lot of Chinese websites make a good living by knowingly selling cheap defective products and hoping that sorting out a refund is too much hassle. I've been through it several times - the communication is great, lots of back and forth, do this do that, ah I see! and so on, but they won't give you your money back until you force them to.

batteries like this, using recycled or scrap cells, are the reason behind that ban on sending li-ion batteries by air. They're clearly defective and the +ve tab to the PCB has either corroded or burnt through. This is no mishandling or postage defect. I'm sure they'll say "ah, but it was perfect when it left us, we only buy from super good factory" and they'll be lying.

next time, think about using Paypal. They may be "evil" but they're the lesser of two evils :)
 
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