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  1. #301
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    Zuuds,
    A year ago I bought a 3x XML light that came with a battery that only lasted about 1.5 hours ( my rides tend to be over 2 hours)
    I dropped around $30 on a Kaidomain battery that came wiht no pack or charger...and only ran about 2 hours.( and run time got shorter after each charge)
    I ended up with a Xeccon hardcase from Leonard/ mtbrevolution that runs over 3 hours...and still going strong.
    If I was going to do it over...I would try to find the light head seperate and buy a good battery.

  2. #302
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    Quote Originally Posted by zuuds View Post
    I'm from California, so you're about 10,000 miles off. You're right, it's just a question of how much quality do you want to pay for.
    Here's hoping I don't come back as a Minuteman.

    You've done your homework. The cells you listed are reliable. While Panasonic will give you longer runtime to weight ratio, the another important question is how long are your average rides. If you say about 3 hours then the Gemini Samsung 5200 will do the job. We have similar batteries with neoprene pouches heading to CO next week.

    If you want to trade a sure thing with cheaper higher capacity Panasonic packs with no waterproofing protection or pouch, unknown shipping time and impossible to return warranty should it go south then its your choice. I will most defintely take Archie's word Hunk Lee is legit but can anyone say he's test each battery he gets from his suppliers, or his supplier's suppliers.
    Leonard - All things Xeccon + Beyond
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  3. #303
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtbRevolution View Post
    We have similar batteries with neoprene pouches heading to CO next week.

    If you want to trade a sure thing with cheaper higher capacity Panasonic packs with no waterproofing protection or pouch, unknown shipping time and impossible to return warranty should it go south then its your choice. I will most defintely take Archie's word Hunk Lee is legit but can anyone say he's test each battery he gets from his suppliers, or his supplier's suppliers.
    Cool, the more options the better! As you point out, a lot more unknowns (and less goodies) with the Hunk Lee packs, but they're about $20 cheaper than the Gemini packs, so depending on one's risk tolerance, it could be worth the gamble. But if you can pick up a brand name pack on sale and there's only a $5-10 price difference, then it's a no-brainer to go with the brand name pack.

  4. #304
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    Very surprised and appreciate that so many people talk about my products!
    The two connectors infact from same position marked P+~P-. Someone want to charge the battery when they use the battery at same time. Keep one if you only need DC socket. The finally product has PVC tube to protect inside parts.
    Welcome to: Cable Wire, For Laptop Notebook items in A-OK battery store on eBay!

  5. #305
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    Quote Originally Posted by HunkLee View Post
    Very surprised and appreciate that so many people talk about my products!
    Thank you for good service, and welcome onboard!

  6. #306
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    So whatever someone wanted to ask about cells and stuff now he can do it :-)

  7. #307
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kir View Post
    PANNOVO B-C04 Water Resistant 4 x 18650 Battery Pack Case for Bike Lamp - Black - Free Shipping - DealExtreme

    If anybody want this battery pack - here is your chance to get it, paypal payment available too.
    Be warned though that it doesn't have any protection pcb in it, I just received my pack from aliexpress. Basically its a direct clone of Fenix BT20's pack, just for 4 cells. There is no low-voltage cutoff or any cells monitoring so you have to use protected cells or rely on your light's battery indicator.

    If you guys are looking for a good quality battery pack. There is a sale going on right now at Banggood for some Panasonics 18650's. Deal can be found here from the BL forums.

    You combine the batteries with this holder and you have a 6800mah water proof pack for about $45.
    "By Your Command"

  8. #308
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    Quote Originally Posted by pucked up View Post
    If you guys are looking for a good quality battery pack. There is a sale going on right now at Banggood for some Panasonics 18650's. Deal can be found here from the BL forums.

    You combine the batteries with this holder and you have a 6800mah water proof pack for about $45.
    Do you know if the Panasonic NCR 18650B Protected (length 69.6 mm) fits in the PANNOVO B-C04 holder?
    Last edited by Bettega; 11-08-2013 at 05:39 AM. Reason: Clarify

  9. #309
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bettega View Post
    Do you know if the Panasonic NCR 18650B Protected (length 69.6 mm) fits in the PANNOVO B-C04 holder?
    If you go back a few post, I think Kir confirmed that the protected NCR's do fit. I don't have this case, but I do have the similar one from the BT20 and protected cells fit.

    I like this case and may pick up a couple.
    "By Your Command"

  10. #310
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    Quote Originally Posted by pucked up View Post
    If you guys are looking for a good quality battery pack. There is a sale going on right now at Banggood for some Panasonics 18650's. Deal can be found here from the BL forums.

    You combine the batteries with this holder and you have a 6800mah water proof pack for about $45.
    Hey, nice find!
    The panasonic NCR18650B with 3400mAh are just a few bucks less than at fasttech - Klick for link! (coupon bgf113)

    get the protected one its here (coupon bgf120)

    I just hit the button
    ..just ride...

  11. #311
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    Wow, nice find, thanks.
    Anyone knows if they would fit into this box: http://kaidomain.com/product/details.S021564
    Since box has protection circuit I need unprotected batteries, right?

  12. #312
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snakes View Post
    Wow, nice find, thanks.
    Anyone knows if they would fit into this box: http://kaidomain.com/product/details.S021564
    Since box has protection circuit I need unprotected batteries, right?
    The flat top unprotected cells fit in that box.
    "By Your Command"

  13. #313
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whitedog1 View Post
    Hey, nice find!
    The panasonic NCR18650B with 3400mAh are just a few bucks less than at fasttech - Klick for link! (coupon bgf113)

    get the protected one its here (coupon bgf120)

    I just hit the button
    FYI...This is a good price if you need the batteries now. If you can wait, the price for these cells has gone as low as $12.30/pair (flat top unprotected) during one of their Wallbuys group buy.
    "By Your Command"

  14. #314
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    Anyone know of a similar 2 cell holder ? ie like Fenix BT20's pack, without having to buy the whole light

  15. #315
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    Quote Originally Posted by pucked up View Post
    FYI...This is a good price if you need the batteries now. If you can wait, the price for these cells has gone as low as $12.30/pair (flat top unprotected) during one of their Wallbuys group buy.
    when will this happen again?
    how do we notice that wallbuy?
    ..just ride...

  16. #316
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    Hmm, my holder (like this one) is not working anymore after I've opened it...
    I've checked all 4 cells, they are fine, but there is no electricity from whole pack. I've checked all wires and all element, everything looks ok. Any suggestions what could be wrong?

  17. #317
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whitedog1 View Post
    when will this happen again?
    how do we notice that wallbuy?
    Don't know. You'll have to keep your eye on the BLF deal thread.

    how do we notice that wallbuy? Huh?
    "By Your Command"

  18. #318
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bettega View Post
    Do you know if the Panasonic NCR 18650B Protected (length 69.6 mm) fits in the PANNOVO B-C04 holder?
    Its a tight fit and you may not be able to fully close the top cover but they will work.

    I've checked all 4 cells, they are fine, but there is no electricity from whole pack. I've checked all wires and all element, everything looks ok. Any suggestions what could be wrong?
    1) Observe the polarity markings on pcb when inserting the cells, this is very important!
    2) After opening/closing the pack you have to reset protection pcb by connecting it to the charger.

  19. #319
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kir View Post
    2) After opening/closing the pack you have to reset protection pcb by connecting it to the charger.
    Kir, thank you very much.
    Connecting it to charger did it . I was connecting it to charger to see if light on charger turns on - if battery pack is working, but didn't try to put charger into power socket.
    After connecting it to power socket it is working again.

  20. #320

  21. #321
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    Thank you!
    The final battery will be heat shrinked by PVC tube to protect it from short circuit. Just show connect material. Don't use the battery with poor connect material and mode, as it maybe short circuit and with poor electronic performance.
    FMA Battery
    No Battery, No living.

  22. #322
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    Questions:

    Do people here making battery packs use protected cells or add protection circuits? If the later any recommended circuits

    Has anyone found a good twin/2x 18650 waterproof battery holder?

    Lastly can anyone recomend a good source of cheap mj extension/y cables for making battery packs.

    Thanks

  23. #323
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    Quote Originally Posted by steviemidnight View Post
    Do people here making battery packs use protected cells or add protection circuits? If the later any recommended circuits
    The latter, of course. Browse eBay: normally there's plenty of them; just read the descriptions...

    Lastly can anyone recomend a good source of cheap mj extension/y cables for making battery packs.
    The cheapest source I know of, is DealExtreme.

  24. #324
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    We made battery pack with PCM inside. The PCM can protect Li-ion battery from over-discharging, over-charging, short-circuit etc. Like below linked items:
    items in A-OK battery store on eBay!

    For the battery holder, like this:
    Protection Circuit Module PCM-7.4V LiIon 18650 2S2P LPo items in A-OK battery store on eBay!
    FMA Battery
    No Battery, No living.

  25. #325
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    Thanks pal

  26. #326
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    Just received my 4 cell Panasonic 6200mah from HunkLee. Took about 10 days to arrive on the west coast. Arrived very well packaged and appears to be a high grade quality pack. I will be conducting some run times this weekend using my gemini light heads.

  27. #327
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    Quote Originally Posted by HunkLee View Post
    We made battery pack with PCM inside. The PCM can protect Li-ion battery from over-discharging, over-charging, short-circuit etc. Like below linked items:
    items in A-OK battery store on eBay!


    For the battery holder, like this:
    Protection Circuit Module PCM-7.4V LiIon 18650 2S2P LPo items in A-OK battery store on eBay!
    Hi HunkLee, Welcome to MTBR "Lights and Night riding forum". I see that you're a vendor of batteries. Nice prices on your website. I hope you have permission from MTBR to post and list your website on the forum. The vendors who post on MTBR have to pay a fee to carry ads or to post links. Approved vendors get to post on the forums as well. If you haven't contacted one of the moderators to attain "Approved vendor status" you may want to do that so they don't remove your posts. If you are already an approved vendor for MTBR than by all means WELCOME.

  28. #328
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    Quote Originally Posted by patski View Post
    I may still have to do that but now I'm trying the plasti dip...

    Attachment 844489
    Ooooh! i'm going to try this
    What exactly is a rigid hard tail?

  29. #329
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gharddog03 View Post
    Just received my 4 cell Panasonic 6200mah from HunkLee. Took about 10 days to arrive on the west coast. Arrived very well packaged and appears to be a high grade quality pack. I will be conducting some run times this weekend using my gemini light heads.


    Nice find! Seriously looking forward to your write up.

  30. #330
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    Good to know we can actually get the batteries from him.

    I purchased 2 3100 Panasonic cells from Fasttech and a 6 cell from DX and have been waiting. The Fasttech people said the batteries are on hold in China and might not be able to be shipped and would refund me if not.

    I really just needed the batteries. It's been over 3 weeks.

    I read others have had this issue. Do you eventually get the batteries.

    Thx

  31. #331
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    Quote Originally Posted by mb323323 View Post
    Good to know we can actually get the batteries from him.

    I purchased 2 3100 Panasonic cells from Fasttech and a 6 cell from DX and have been waiting. The Fasttech people said the batteries are on hold in China and might not be able to be shipped and would refund me if not.

    I really just needed the batteries. It's been over 3 weeks.

    I read others have had this issue. Do you eventually get the batteries.

    Thx
    I also ordered some batteries from Fasttech and have been waiting. Current tracking indicates:

    "The item (trackingnumber) was posted on 6-Nov-2013"

    mb, do you have tracking info, if so, what is the status of yours?

    I haven't contacted Fasttech yet, I placed my order on Oct. 23 (2 days over 3 weeks).

    edit, perhaps I shouldn't have included my tracking number, removed.

  32. #332
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    Quote Originally Posted by mb323323 View Post
    Good to know we can actually get the batteries from him.

    I purchased 2 3100 Panasonic cells from Fasttech and a 6 cell from DX and have been waiting. The Fasttech people said the batteries are on hold in China and might not be able to be shipped and would refund me if not.

    I really just needed the batteries. It's been over 3 weeks.

    I read others have had this issue. Do you eventually get the batteries.

    Thx
    If you're buying loose cells, Amazon's probably a better bet. A few bucks more, but you avoid the infuriating delays.

  33. #333
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    Quote Originally Posted by zuuds View Post
    If you're buying loose cells, Amazon's probably a better bet. A few bucks more, but you avoid the infuriating delays.
    I ordered 36 batteries total.

  34. #334
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    My status just says in transit but I sent an email to F/T and they explained the issue. I've been waiting since 10/20.

    I'll wait a bit longer and if same issue.

    Based on F/T response to my email, it's as though they know these orders can't be filled but they are just trying anyway to see which will go thru.

    F/T response to me. "Since your package contains batteries, which are not allowed by Hong Kong Post due to aviation security reason, we believe your package is now waiting for inspection. Therefore, we will found the tracking status remains "acceptance". If your package is caught and returned to us, we will arrange refund for you."

  35. #335
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    Sorry I'm a beginner and don't know how to begin.
    I'd like to know who should I contact for ads. details?
    FMA Battery
    No Battery, No living.

  36. #336
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    Quote Originally Posted by HunkLee View Post
    Sorry I'm a beginner and don't know how to begin.
    I'd like to know who should I contact for ads. details?


    Contact Us

  37. #337
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    Hunk lee will you be making a 2S1P panasonic 3400mah battery packs in the near future?

  38. #338
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    Have prepared

    Quote Originally Posted by Trd620 View Post
    Hunk lee will you be making a 2S1P panasonic 3400mah battery packs in the near future?
    Have prepared but not list yet. Maybe tomorrow.
    FMA Battery
    No Battery, No living.

  39. #339
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    Quote Originally Posted by HunkLee View Post
    Thank you!
    The final battery will be heat shrinked by PVC tube to protect it from short circuit. Just show connect material. Don't use the battery with poor connect material and mode, as it maybe short circuit and with poor electronic performance.

    This battery will come heat shrinked? Or are you talking about a different unit?

    Panasonic NCR18650B 7 4V 6800mAh Protected Li ion Battery for Bike Light 2S2PM | eBay

  40. #340
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    Did two run times on high using a gemini duo at work. Temperature 44-35 degrees. First run time was 3:29 second was 3:27. Very impressed with this 4 cell Panasonic 6200 mah.

    Great battery HunkLee.
    Last edited by Gharddog03; 11-16-2013 at 11:49 AM.

  41. #341
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    Of course come with PVC protected. We want to show inside connection as we saw poor connection picture in MTBR.
    FMA Battery
    No Battery, No living.

  42. #342
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    Quote Originally Posted by HunkLee View Post
    Of course come with PVC protected. We want to show inside connection as we saw poor connection picture in MTBR.

    Cool. 2 cell Panasonic packs would also be appreciated.

  43. #343
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gharddog03 View Post
    Did two run times on high using a gemini duo at work. Temperature 44-35 degrees. First run time was 3:29 second was 3:27. Very impressed with this 4 cell Panasonic 6200 mah.

    Great battery HunkLee.
    Looks like a good set-up.

    @HunkLee....Someone also mentioned wanting a 4-cell 2S2P set-up using Panasonic 3400mAh cells. I'll second that request. There is also a market for a 2-cell ( 3400mAh ) two series pack that so far not too many vendors seem to sell. A number of people here like to run two cell packs on their helmet or run two cell packs for smaller rear lamps. Make them and they should sell, particularly since there seems to be some problems with getting batteries from the other side of the world at the moment.

  44. #344
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    ^ Thanks for jumping in--a 3400 mAh 2 cell would be lovely. Would order immediately.

  45. #345
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    Got my 4 cell Panasonic 6200mah from HunkLee in 6 days from China to California. Same pack as shown by Gharddog03 below except pack is green. Charging now.

  46. #346
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    Quote Originally Posted by mb323323 View Post
    My status just says in transit but I sent an email to F/T and they explained the issue. I've been waiting since 10/20.

    I'll wait a bit longer and if same issue.

    Based on F/T response to my email, it's as though they know these orders can't be filled but they are just trying anyway to see which will go thru.

    F/T response to me. "Since your package contains batteries, which are not allowed by Hong Kong Post due to aviation security reason, we believe your package is now waiting for inspection. Therefore, we will found the tracking status remains "acceptance". If your package is caught and returned to us, we will arrange refund for you."
    The item (tracking number) was returned to sender on 18-Nov-2013.

    Doh!

  47. #347
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    Yeah, they simply can't send batteries from China. I'm assuming loose cells only but not really sure as I have a 6 cell on order. Hopefully that will actually arrive. Might be day light savings time again by the time it does arrive tho. Haha.

    Here's Fasttech response.

    As you may have noticed that there was no tracking updates for your package during the past few weeks. After confirming with HongKong Post, we've confirmed that your package was failed to pass through the x-ray check and has been returned. This was caused due to current strict inspection of the aviation security.

    Your package has just been returned to us. Considering the risk of being returned/delayed again, we are going to make a refund for your order. Because there is too many orders being affected, the refund will be done within 24 hours. Your understanding would be highly appreciated.

  48. #348
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    What's the typical expected lifetime of a good 4x18650 pack? I purchased a couple of the Gemini 5200mah packs last year. I've been using them on average 3 times a week, for 1.5-2.5 hours per ride. I recharge after every ride. The batteries are kept in a climate controlled area. I'd guess I've got 200 charge cycles in them so far.

    I've noticed recently that my battery indicator on my lights are now getting into the 'warning' range 1.5 hours or so into a ride. I definitely feel I've got my $'s worth as they've been flawless and still last 2+ hours on high on my MJ872 clones. I want to replace them as the warning lights make me nervous on longer rides.

    Is this life range typical? Better than average, worse than average?

  49. #349
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    Quote Originally Posted by mb323323 View Post
    Yeah, they simply can't send batteries from China. I'm assuming loose cells only but not really sure as I have a 6 cell on order. Hopefully that will actually arrive. Might be day light savings time again by the time it does arrive tho. Haha.

    Here's Fasttech response.

    As you may have noticed that there was no tracking updates for your package during the past few weeks. After confirming with HongKong Post, we've confirmed that your package was failed to pass through the x-ray check and has been returned. This was caused due to current strict inspection of the aviation security.

    Your package has just been returned to us. Considering the risk of being returned/delayed again, we are going to make a refund for your order. Because there is too many orders being affected, the refund will be done within 24 hours. Your understanding would be highly appreciated.
    Hmmm, well I still need the batteries and on their website it says:

    "US orders are now routed via the same service provided by Singapore instead of Hong Kong Post.
    Delivery times will be more consistent across the board."

    So, I'm hoping they resend the order. Guess I'll see what happens! Which will come first, Christmas or batteries!

  50. #350
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    Quote Originally Posted by HunkLee View Post
    Of course come with PVC protected. We want to show inside connection as we saw poor connection picture in MTBR.
    hey, just want to mention that your plug is not compatible in terms of waterproofness for most bike lights guys are using here!
    Maybe you should consider to use a magicshine style plug!
    Or would that be an option as a special request when ordering?
    ..just ride...

  51. #351
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    Quote Originally Posted by TechniKal View Post
    What's the typical expected lifetime of a good 4x18650 pack? I purchased a couple of the Gemini 5200mah packs last year. I've been using them on average 3 times a week, for 1.5-2.5 hours per ride. I recharge after every ride. The batteries are kept in a climate controlled area. I'd guess I've got 200 charge cycles in them so far.

    I've noticed recently that my battery indicator on my lights are now getting into the 'warning' range 1.5 hours or so into a ride. I definitely feel I've got my $'s worth as they've been flawless and still last 2+ hours on high on my MJ872 clones. I want to replace them as the warning lights make me nervous on longer rides.

    Is this life range typical? Better than average, worse than average?
    If you're starting to ride in colder weather this is the reason your voltage indicators are changing sooner than expected. If you're still riding at ambient temperatures than perhaps your batteries are losing some capacity. If you routinely discharge your batteries into the red zone ( on your indicators ) that will speed up the aging process of the battery.

    Seems you ride at night very often. When you start planning longer rides you might want to do a test discharge on full .. ( or whatever power level you usually ride at ) so you KNOW how long the battery will last. If you do this make sure you use a fan to keep the lamp cool. Do this a couple times a year ( or when in doubt ) and you should be fine.

    If you are riding in colder weather and plan to do so regularly it would be better to use a battery with more capacity. ( doing this helps deal with the voltage sag issue experienced in colder weather. Hope this helps.

    Pigmode commented:

    ...Thanks for jumping in--a 3400 mAh 2 cell would be lovely. Would order immediately.
    Turns out he has one on his website. Order just placed. I'll report on how long it takes to get to me...( Maryland, EAST Coast USA ).

  52. #352
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    HunkLee, a couple of stupid questions please!

    What is the cutoff voltage for these packs?
    NCR18650B seem to have no problem going down as low as 2.5V per cell - if the protection board cuts the battery pack off at, say, 3.0V then there's no benefit in the 3400mAh capacity because they will only be mine if the battery pack does discharge down to 5V...

    Does the battery pack PCB support balancing?
    I am asking because I see no balancing wire coming out of the pack, and if a pack of 8 cells goes out of balance it will really be a great pity.

  53. #353
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    discharging down to 2.5V doesn't provide much more mAh compared to 3.0V cutoff!
    I measured 100-200mAh but you will rapidly reduce your cycles (lifetime) when discharged that far!
    ..just ride...

  54. #354
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    Panasonic 3400 should go to 2.7V under load. But I prefer 3.0V by Li-ion, by Li-po 3.0-3.3V, Li-fe about 2.8-2.9V.

  55. #355
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    Re: The Battery Thread: 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-man-do View Post
    If you're starting to ride in colder weather this is the reason your voltage indicators are changing sooner than expected.
    I'm in Texas, so cold is relative. We've had a few nights where it gets into the 40s f, but usually it's 60df or higher.

    I ordered a couple of the magicshine 5600mah packs from Action-LED-Lights (and a Gemini Duo lamp). We'll see how those hold up compared to the Gemini packs I've been using. Considered just getting new Gemini packs, but the magicshine are slightly higher capacity, hardshell, and have a mounting system that would seem to work better on my stem - at the same price.

  56. #356
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    Capacity drop caused by ambient temperature is quite real thing, but mostly noticeable on really cold days (close to freezing and below).

    Maybe, your batteries are already out of balance: most bike lights & chargers are unable to correct that - and once started, effect will increase with each charge/discharge cycle, unless you fix that issue by any appropriate method.

  57. #357
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whitedog1 View Post
    discharging down to 2.5V doesn't provide much more mAh compared to 3.0V cutoff!
    I measured 100-200mAh but you will rapidly reduce your cycles (lifetime) when discharged that far!
    Yes I saw the tests, but if I am to pay extra for the extra 200mAh of capacity then I would like to have what I am paying for.

    Say, Samsung 2600 mAh batteries are much cheaper and you don't have to discharge them to 2,5 to get those 2600 mAh, but but we are talking about NCR18650B now, so why not use them to their full potential - especially if we have to pay for that extra potential?

    Would still be interested to hear about balancing options for these batteries.

  58. #358
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    Anyone know how much capacity is lost at 30-40 degrees F (0-5 C) compared to 80? 30 degrees is about the coldest I have to deal with in Northern California.

  59. #359
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    Depending on how your light is set up, you could lose much brightness running down to 5V. A dual XML in series configuration has a Vf of ~6V at 2A. At 5V you wont be getting much current through the LEDs.

  60. #360
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    That's no problem as long I don't have to ride in the forest in total darkness - that's when the last extra 200mAh really count. Besides, the lights I use aren't driven that hard.

    Honestly, we all know that the difference between 3400mAh and 3100mAh only shows if you're really down to 2.5. Everyone saw the graphs, right? Then why would one want to buy that 3400mAh cell and put a 3.0V limit to it?

  61. #361
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    The Battery Thread: 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Grumpy View Post
    Hmmm, well I still need the batteries and on their website it says:

    "US orders are now routed via the same service provided by Singapore instead of Hong Kong Post.
    Delivery times will be more consistent across the board."

    So, I'm hoping they resend the order. Guess I'll see what happens! Which will come first, Christmas or batteries!
    Please post back on how it works for you. I had one order come through with hkpost and another get caught and returned.

    I would like to get some protected panasonics and they have the best price.

  62. #362
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    Quote Originally Posted by MegaVolt View Post
    That's no problem as long I don't have to ride in the forest in total darkness - that's when the last extra 200mAh really count. Besides, the lights I use aren't driven that hard.

    Honestly, we all know that the difference between 3400mAh and 3100mAh only shows if you're really down to 2.5. Everyone saw the graphs, right? Then why would one want to buy that 3400mAh cell and put a 3.0V limit to it?
    Do you have a link to the graphs you are referring to, because every one I have seen shows the cell falling off a cliff at around 3v - eg lygte-info.dk & shows a difference of ~300 mAh capacity at .around 3.4v.

    The real difference is that, in very rough numbers, you are paying a 25% increase in price for a 10% increase in capacity. To me it is not worth it unless you need that very last bit of capacity.

  63. #363
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    tested this 6 cell battery pack sold by TangsFire on amazon. lasted 3 hrs 20 mins on high with a solarstorm x2

    Amazon.com: Replacement 8.4V 6600mAh Rechargeable Battery Pack for Headlamp & Bicycle Light: Sports & Outdoors

    i'm impressed. this will replace the original 4 cell pack that came with the light that lasts 1 hr.

  64. #364
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    Quote Originally Posted by MegaVolt View Post
    Honestly, we all know that the difference between 3400mAh and 3100mAh only shows if you're really down to 2.5. Everyone saw the graphs, right? Then why would one want to buy that 3400mAh cell and put a 3.0V limit to it?
    because we are discharging the 3100mAh cell down to 3.0v and the 3400mAh cell also - thus we gain some capacity over the 3100mAh cell!
    ..just ride...

  65. #365
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    find_bruce

    When I wrote 'graphs' I meant Panasonic PDF's:
    http://industrial.panasonic.com/www-...CI4000CE54.pdf
    http://www.panasonic.com/industrial/...-NCR18650A.pdf

    A little about myself.
    My usual bike rides are 2 or 3 days long, and I don't usually have a chance to charge batteriess en route. My batteries's usual discharge rate is 1C. The difference between 3100 and 3400 for me is 200-300mAh.

    And trust me, when you're in the forest and it's not full moon 5V from 2s3p battery is much much better than cutoff at 3.0V per cell, so every bit of help counts.


    Whitedog1
    Unfortunately, 3100 and 3400 show pretty much same capacity when discharged to 3.0V at 1C.

    Re: Temps vs Capacity
    See the PDF's I posted links to - they show discharge curves at -10C, 0C, 10C, 25C and even at 45C and 60C - that sort of gives an idea what to expect at 1C.

    HunkLee
    Sorry for being a pita, but what's the cutoff voltage for these packs?
    Will the battery PCB balance the pack since there's no balancing wires coming from it?

    Everyone - apologies for a long post - I know I talk too much, I always do my best to keep it short and I always lose...

  66. #366
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    Quote Originally Posted by ljracer View Post
    Please post back on how it works for you. I had one order come through with hkpost and another get caught and returned.

    I would like to get some protected panasonics and they have the best price.
    My order was returned to sender and refunded. I've since re-ordered and it's in the "packaging" phase. The only shipping option was SpeedPost (4 - 9 days) so cost has jumped a bit per pair.

  67. #367
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    I ordered a couple of the Hunk Lee 6200 mAh packs. At my request, he removed the second JST connectors from the packs. They arrived 8 days after I ordered them (to California), and were very well packaged. So far so good! I have not had a chance to try them out yet. The female plugs are compatible with the magicshine type plugs, but they do not have the plastic shroud, so they do not connect as tightly, and the connection is not waterproof. I have some magicshine extension cords and heatshrink tubing on order. Even factoring these additional costs in, they should be a great value.

  68. #368
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Grumpy View Post
    My order was returned to sender and refunded. I've since re-ordered and it's in the "packaging" phase. The only shipping option was SpeedPost (4 - 9 days) so cost has jumped a bit per pair.
    Thanks to a tip from another user in the yingding clone thread..

    I checked wallbuys. they have Protected Panasonic 3400's on sale for $15 (for 2 cells). Free shipping....

    They claim they can ship batteries without problem on their front page..So i am rolling the dice.

  69. #369
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    From what I see there is that 45 and 60 deg. C is the same curve. Or am I missing something? Generally lithium cells under higher temperatures improve their capacity, so there is a bit of increase. Also in -10 deg. C li-ion/li-po at 4.2V might be overcharged, usually 4.1V in minus temp is OK.

    Quote Originally Posted by MegaVolt View Post
    When I wrote 'graphs' I meant Panasonic PDF's:
    http://industrial.panasonic.com/www-...CI4000CE54.pdf
    http://www.panasonic.com/industrial/...-NCR18650A.pdf
    Re: Temps vs Capacity
    See the PDF's I posted links to - they show discharge curves at -10C, 0C, 10C, 25C and even at 45C and 60C - that sort of gives an idea what to expect at 1C.

  70. #370
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    Quote Originally Posted by ljracer View Post
    Thanks to a tip from another user in the yingding clone thread..

    I checked wallbuys. they have Protected Panasonic 3400's on sale for $15 (for 2 cells). Free shipping....

    They claim they can ship batteries without problem on their front page..So i am rolling the dice.
    That is a VERY GOOD price for two Panasonics. Maybe too good. Hope I'm wrong. Let us know how well the cells work when you get them.

    I just checked the website. Looks like this is a "Promotional" price. No telling how long it will last. Two unprotected cells normally going for $17.26 That's still not a bad price for two Panasonics. Glad to see some good prices on the good stuff.

  71. #371
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    Do you see the listing as we have list?
    FMA Battery
    No Battery, No living.

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    Very good question and very good reply from Whitedog1!
    Really no more capacity from 3V to 2.5V, as the discharging curve at the end of discharging is almost vertical. Deeply charging and discharging reduce cycle life of the battery. Like over eated and over hungry. I'd like mail its specification to you if you tell me your mailbox.

    Quote Originally Posted by MegaVolt View Post
    HunkLee, a couple of stupid questions please!

    What is the cutoff voltage for these packs?
    NCR18650B seem to have no problem going down as low as 2.5V per cell - if the protection board cuts the battery pack off at, say, 3.0V then there's no benefit in the 3400mAh capacity because they will only be mine if the battery pack does discharge down to 5V...

    Does the battery pack PCB support balancing?
    I am asking because I see no balancing wire coming out of the pack, and if a pack of 8 cells goes out of balance it will really be a great pity.
    FMA Battery
    No Battery, No living.

  73. #373
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    what charger are you using to charge these? At this point ive just bought loose pannys with the panovo case for mt solarstorm x2, charged in my nitecore i4. This looks like a good cheap backup, just need a means to charge it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gabe3 View Post
    tested this 6 cell battery pack sold by TangsFire on amazon. lasted 3 hrs 20 mins on high with a solarstorm x2

    Amazon.com: Replacement 8.4V 6600mAh Rechargeable Battery Pack for Headlamp & Bicycle Light: Sports & Outdoors

    i'm impressed. this will replace the original 4 cell pack that came with the light that lasts 1 hr.

  74. #374
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    For a 7.4V Li-ion battery pack, need 8.4V charger, use a higher current charger to reduce charging time. Like this:
    A DC8.4V 1A Intelligent Charger for MagicShine bike LED 7.4V Li-ion Battery USL items in A-OK battery store on eBay!
    FMA Battery
    No Battery, No living.

  75. #375
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    Quote Originally Posted by HunkLee View Post
    Very good question and very good reply from Whitedog1!
    Really no more capacity from 3V to 2.5V, as the discharging curve at the end of discharging is almost vertical. Deeply charging and discharging reduce cycle life of the battery. Like over eated and over hungry.
    There's one thing: the specification of cell's manufacturer. For abovementioned Panasonics, voltage range is 4.2 to 2.5 volt, no more or less. It is not overcharge or overdischarge, it is normal working cycle...

    I'd like mail its specification to you if you tell me your mailbox.
    I'm pretty sure most people here prefer to see that information published openly.

  76. #376
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    Thank you! If you have any question about the battery, pls. contact us freely!
    FMA Battery
    No Battery, No living.

  77. #377
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    I'm wondering how to upload jpg picture here...
    FMA Battery
    No Battery, No living.

  78. #378
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    Quote Originally Posted by HunkLee View Post
    I'm wondering how to upload jpg picture here...

    I think there is a waiting period for being able to post photo's for new members. You might contact the moderators to ask if they will waive this restriction. I'd like to see your photos so you get my thumbs-up.

  79. #379
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    Quote Originally Posted by HunkLee View Post
    I'm wondering how to upload jpg picture here...
    try hosting it on a image hosting site and then post the link.

  80. #380
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gharddog03 View Post
    Just received my 4 cell Panasonic 6200mah from HunkLee. Took about 10 days to arrive on the west coast. Arrived very well packaged and appears to be a high grade quality pack. I will be conducting some run times this weekend using my gemini light heads.
    Meanwhile, one my mates received the same battery from HunkLee / A-OK battery:

    A Panasonic NCR18650 7 4V 6200mAh Li ion Battery 4 3100mAh Cells to 2S2P w PCM | eBay

    It comes without secondary charge connector (as requested) and wrapped in black shrink tube:




    I've measured it's capacity in both "8.4V to 6.0V" and "8.4 to 5.0V", because of recent discussions about its PCB module cut-off voltage.

    I have to say, it's excellent high-quality battery, and PCB does not prevent discharging it to the full range specified by manufacturer. In numbers, when discharged to the 6.0V by 1A current, measured capacity is 5946 mAh. Discharge to the 5.0V gives 6170 mAh.

    Below you can see voltage-by-time and capacity-by-time curves of the latter regime.





  81. #381
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    Well, trying to sift through 16 pages of people nerding out about batteries taught me three things:
    1. Some of the batteries that come with cheap Chinese lights suck, and some don't.
    2. A "good" replacement battery will put you into the price range of a genuine Magic Shine light.
    3. I don't know anything more useful about batteries than I used to.

    So, If I'm worried about buying a light that comes with a shrink wrapped battery, am I better off buying one that comes with something like this:
    The Battery Thread: 2013-619uctmwbxl._sl1000_.jpg
    Since it appears you can open the battery up and inspect it or theoretically replace the cells with something like this:
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    Help me Obi Wan Kenobi

  82. #382
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    Archie-

    Thanks for the testing. I have been very impressed with my pack. I have this one coming.

    Panasonic NCR18650B 7 4V 10200mAh Protected Li ion Battery for Bike Light 2S3PM | eBay
    Last edited by Gharddog03; 11-24-2013 at 09:00 PM.

  83. #383
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Archie- View Post
    Meanwhile, one my mates received the same battery from HunkLee / A-OK battery:

    A Panasonic NCR18650 7 4V 6200mAh Li ion Battery 4 3100mAh Cells to 2S2P w PCM | eBay

    It comes without secondary charge connector (as requested) and wrapped in black shrink tube:




    I've measured it's capacity in both "8.4V to 6.0V" and "8.4 to 5.0V", because of recent discussions about its PCB module cut-off voltage.

    I have to say, it's excellent high-quality battery, and PCB does not prevent discharging it to the full range specified by manufacturer. In numbers, when discharged to the 6.0V by 1A current, measured capacity is 5946 mAh. Discharge to the 5.0V gives 6170 mAh.

    Below you can see voltage-by-time and capacity-by-time curves of the latter regime.




    Nice work, Archie. Likewise to Mr. HunkLee.

  84. #384
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    Oh no, don't replace it with this camouflage Just go for Panasonic, Sanyo, Samsung, XTAR, Keepower, Sony 18650's

    Quote Originally Posted by jm2e View Post
    Since it appears you can open the battery up and inspect it or theoretically replace the cells with something like this:
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  85. #385
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    Quote Originally Posted by MK96 View Post
    Oh no, don't replace it with this camouflage Just go for Panasonic, Sanyo, Samsung, XTAR, Keepower, Sony 18650's
    So, I'm a bit confused.
    Is the above pictured case a good option because of the flexibility it provides?
    Or is the case no better and one should just go with shrink wrapped batteries?
    Please address the specifics of my question. I'm not interested in the religion of expensive batteries that make me wonder why I started down the road of cheap knock off lights in the first place just to end up spending $50 bucks on a battery.

  86. #386
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Archie- View Post
    I've measured it's capacity in both "8.4V to 6.0V" and "8.4 to 5.0V", because of recent discussions about its PCB module cut-off voltage.

    So...what is the actual cut-off voltage on this protection PCB? 2.5v? 2.3v? Lower?

  87. #387
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    Quote Originally Posted by jm2e View Post
    So, I'm a bit confused.
    Is the above pictured case a good option because of the flexibility it provides?
    Or is the case no better and one should just go with shrink wrapped batteries?
    Case is MUCH better than shrink wrapped batteries as you'll be able to insert good quality cells in it.
    Just don't use any ***fire batteries, these grey Ultrafire ones have about 1700-1900mAh capacity.
    Buy only Panasonic/Samsung/LG/Sanyo cells, they're the best atm.

  88. #388
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    Quote Originally Posted by jm2e View Post
    So, I'm a bit confused.
    Is the above pictured case a good option because of the flexibility it provides?
    Or is the case no better and one should just go with shrink wrapped batteries?
    Please address the specifics of my question. I'm not interested in the religion of expensive batteries that make me wonder why I started down the road of cheap knock off lights in the first place just to end up spending $50 bucks on a battery.
    You can buy whatever batteries you want. If you like short rides, running your lights on low power, imaginary cell ratings and heavy packs that may explode when a drop of water hits them, just buy the cheapest batteries you can find.

  89. #389
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    jm2e, the case you posted is very good. The battery you posted is trash The only usable ****fire cells with 2400mAh are these:

    $8.53 TrustFire TF 18650 3.7V 2400mAh Rechargeable Li-ion Battery (2-Pack)

    $9.71 TrustFire TF18650 3.7V 2400mAh Protected Rechargeable Lithium Batteries 2-pack - 2400mAh actual capacity at FastTech - Worldwide Free Shipping

    $8.78 TrustFire TF18650 3.7V "3000mAh" Protected Rechargeable Li-ion Batteries 2-pack - 2400mAh actual capacity at FastTech - Worldwide Free Shipping

    but they might not fit the case. So you can easily end up with something like this:

    $9.94 Authentic Sanyo UR18650FM 18650 2600mAh 3.7V Rechargeable Lithium Batteries (2-Pack) 2-pack - unprotected / with carrying case at FastTech - Worldwide Free Shipping

    $11.67 18650 2600mAh Rechargeable Li-ion Battery(Sanyo Battery Cell)-Red(2-Pack)

    Each chinese ****fire or no-name brand might have problems like explosion, shortcircuit, overheat, malfunctioned PCB, some flour instead of full sized cell inside low capacity etc ...

    But the light you posted from Kaidomain should have pack at about 3-4000mAh - so you don't need to replace anything for some time. I have 2 x 880 clones, but packs still didn't arrive so can't tell you the actual capacity.

  90. #390
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    Quote Originally Posted by jm2e View Post
    So, I'm a bit confused.
    Is the above pictured case a good option because of the flexibility it provides?
    Or is the case no better and one should just go with shrink wrapped batteries?
    Please address the specifics of my question. I'm not interested in the religion of expensive batteries that make me wonder why I started down the road of cheap knock off lights in the first place just to end up spending $50 bucks on a battery.
    About your first question: If you want to know which is better that would depend on two things, the cells being used and secondly just your point of view. Personally I like soldered battery packs with good cells and good plug connectors. On the other hand cell holders can work almost just as well and give the user the option of being able to use any 18650 cell they choose. One down side to cell holders is that all the battery contacts are through friction contact only ( spring metal contacts ). I much prefer the soldered contacts of multi-cell packs with PCB's. Another issue might be that the cell holder is not as weather proof as a well protected sealed battery pack. If you carry the holder in a battery pouch probably not a major issue.

    I've used cell holders in the past without too much problem but since I chose to charge my cells separately I found it wearisome to remove the cells every time I wanted to charge the cells. You can of course charge the cells in the holder with a regular 4-cell charger as long as the holder has a compatible connector plug and PCB.

    About your last statement which I highlighted: You can buy cheap 18650 cells and they will work. As long as you know how long they will last when using your lamp that is the real issue. Prices though on the better 18650 cells with higher capacity have come down. That said I can't see any reason not to buy some decent cells, even if they cost a couple bucks extra per cell. For what I paid for my old red Ultrafire ( 2600mah ) cells years ago I can now buy Samsung or Sanyo. I was going to provide some links but I noticed that Fasttech ( which has some good prices on loose cells ) has sold out of almost all the good stuff. I guess batteries are getting harder to get with all the shipping restrictions.

    There's a big cost difference between buying an inexpensive Chinese made lamp and a brand made lamp. Brand name costing maybe 4X as much or more. With 18650 cells...not the same issue. Cheap low capacity cells maybe $7 for two. For better cells maybe $12 for two....SO....$10 extra for 4 better cells is a super deal for added peace of mind. Knowing where to pinch the pennies and where not to pinch pennies can be important once you start riding back in wood at night.

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    I just clicked an ad for BikeBling's light sale and I can't believe how expensive the major brands are. $220 for a 6 cell battery, $115 for a 3 cell and $35 dollars for an extension cord were some of the prices that really stuck out.

  92. #392
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    Panasonic 10200 mah arrived. Again build quality is top notch. Mr. Hunk Lee is putting out some nice battery packs at a very reasonable prices. I'll be doing some run times at work with my gemini lights.
    Panasonic NCR18650B 7 4V 10200mAh Protected Li ion Battery for Bike Light 2S3PM | eBay

  93. #393
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    Well...his prices are reasonable but not really that good.
    If you have a spot-welding machine (like i do ) you can make such battery packs for about $50.
    Cells are ~$7.5 shipped (and thats a retail price, it should be lower for bulk purchases in china) so $45 for cells and another $5 or so for nickel strip, protection pcb and connector.
    Still nobody except him offers such batteries so I guess its not a bad choice. But if you have loads of friends or live in huge city with many cyclists - it could be worth it to invest $300 or so into the spot-welding machine to make such batteries yourself for a lower price.

    Just for example:

  94. #394
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kir View Post
    So...what is the actual cut-off voltage on this protection PCB? 2.5v? 2.3v? Lower?
    To test that, deep overdischarge or desoldering of PCB is required - so, giving the fact the battery is not mine, it was not an option. My intention was, to check whether PCB will allow to handle specified voltage range , and it does that without problem.

  95. #395
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kir View Post
    If you have a spot-welding machine (like i do ) you can make such battery packs for about $50.
    And if you have battery manufacturing plant, you can have it even cheaper! But most people here IMHO are ordinary consumers looking to buy the battery, not to start mass production...

  96. #396
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    Hi Guys. I see all pros are here. I would like to get a battery pack. A big one 2S4P.

    I have been eyeing with this: 1x Sanyo Li ion 18650 7 4V 10400mah Battery Pack with PCM 8Cells to 2S4P w Plug | eBay

    But his also looks sexy except for the incredible price: Panasonic NCR18650B 7 4V 13600mAh Protected Li ion Battery for Bike Light 2S4PXM | eBay

    Is the later that much better (I mean the price difference)?

    Also will welcome any other kickass 2S4P pack suggestion. Also a question in my mind is (might be minimally better for balancing). To have 2 2S2P separately and then connect them in parallel with Y cable, but separate them when charging. Feel free to let me know if the idea is nonsense

    Also no spot-welding machine, so either case or pre-packed with PCB is required.

    P.S: I am planing to seal it all in a bike water bottle somehow and make it waterproof.

    Thank you.
    Alex

  97. #397
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    Everybody - but how are you going to balance all these 2S batteries from Mr. Hunk Lee?

  98. #398
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    No way really, unless they/we ordered the pack with extra leads from each cell. Like the RC lipo-s. From what I am reading, I am sure that Lee would do it if requested. That mod is really not much work or material. As he is going to solder anyway (putting the pack together) adding a 1mm lead at the same time should be no biggie.

    But not many of us might even have balancing chargers.
    I am not flying a RC Jet, so not really keen an squeezing every drop if juice out of these.

  99. #399
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    oalex100, the 2P4S and 2S4P batteries are very different (and incompatible) things.

  100. #400
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    Yeah, I know. My bad, thank you for pointing out my mistake. I meant 2S4P. Just wrote it wrong way. The links were correct. Fixed now. :-)

    BTW: does any of you live in Germany?

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