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  1. #1
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    Any NEW news on MS??

    Just curious if anyone knows anything new about the recall? Seems pretty quite about it around here recently. I havent been riding due to the frigid temps anyway. I assume everyone is just waiting on the next steps from geoman.

  2. #2
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    Same here... its been too cold and icy to ride. I still will use my batterys as always, but am just real careful when storing and especially charging.

    Just going by what Geoman has said... he is still working on a solution and also I read on another forum that he has some stuff in hand and is testing, etc. But I did NOT hear it first hand from Geoman so take it for what its worth.

  3. #3
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    I couldn't wait, gotta ride to work in the dark and love my MS fr/r lights so did the all-batt battery. Took only a few minutes to solder/waterproof the connectors on (ordered a few Y cables from GEOMAN) and got it all working. Maybe 50bucks tops. Worth it to me to keep riding, and I have extra connectors for future replacement batteries.

    At this point, one of my MS batteries is dead- charger comes on green right away. It's the one in the metal can that came with the front light. My older style one works, but lasts only about 2/3 of what it did just a few months ago. I had been rotating them every month, but now just keep them in a metal can. I hope that All-Batt battery lasts longer.
    Tzvia.

  4. #4
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    News?
    Here is some BAD news...

    Update: bad news.
    The light heads are awesome, the problems seem to all be in the chargers/batteries

    http://www.ul.com/global/eng/pages/c...0325125400.xml

    UL warns of a bicycle light with unauthorized UL power supply

    Northbrook, Ill., - March 25, 2010 - Underwriters Laboratories (UL) is notifying retailers and consumers that the power supply provided with the bicycle lighting system identified below, bears an unauthorized UL Mark for the United States and Canada. This power supply has not been evaluated by UL to the appropriate standard for safety for the United States or Canada and is not authorized to bear the UL Mark. It is unknown if this power supply complies with United States or Canadian safety requirements.

    Name of Product: Power Supply, Model GFP302-0512

    Number of Units: Unknown

    Manufacturer: Unknown

    Date of Manufacture: Unknown

    Identification: On the product:

    LI-ION CHARGER


    MODEL: GFP302-0512




    INPUT: 100-240V 50/60Hz




    OUTPUT: DC 8.5V/1800mA
    "We LOVE cows! They make trails for us.....

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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzvia
    I couldn't wait, gotta ride to work in the dark and love my MS fr/r lights so did the all-batt battery. Took only a few minutes to solder/waterproof the connectors on (ordered a few Y cables from GEOMAN) and got it all working. Maybe 50bucks tops. Worth it to me to keep riding, and I have extra connectors for future replacement batteries.

    At this point, one of my MS batteries is dead- charger comes on green right away. It's the one in the metal can that came with the front light. My older style one works, but lasts only about 2/3 of what it did just a few months ago. I had been rotating them every month, but now just keep them in a metal can. I hope that All-Batt battery lasts longer.
    Are you just using your MS charger with the All-Batt battery?

  6. #6
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    And if you look beyond the actual warning, you'll discover that the charger that was shipped with your MagicShine lightset from GeomanGear probably is nothing like the one in that warning:






  7. #7
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    Although you have to love the irony of "CAUTION: INDOOR USE ONLY."

  8. #8
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    Your pictures don't look like the pictures GeoManGear has on it's web site for the charger. Those pictures look an awful lot like the ones on the UL bogus listing warning page (which can be found here).

    I also don't see a UL file number on the picture of your charger. I'm pretty sure most UL listed stuff has a file number someplace on it, so you can look it up on their web site. I could be wrong, your charger may be legit. But if I were you, I'd do some research before plugging it again.

    So the batteries sometimes catch fire, and depending where (and perhaps when) you bought your MagicShine, it's charger might not meet standard safety practices. Oh yeah, those lights were a real bargain .

    I think I'll keep building my own,

    Mark
    Last edited by mhahn@hvc.rr.com; 12-21-2010 at 06:37 AM.
    Nimium est melior!

  9. #9
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    How does this (from your link):



    Look anything like this (my picture from above)?



    I will admit that GeomanGear does show a pic of what appears to be that UL warning charger on his website in the listing for the charger on it's own, but the listings for the lightsets themselves show something similar to what I have above (and what came with the MJ-808 lightset that I bought from them in the fall of 2009).

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by mhahn@hvc.rr.com
    ...I also don't see a UL file number on the picture of your charger. I'm pretty sure most UL listed stuff has a file number someplace on it, so you can look it up on their web site....
    My chargers are the same as BlownCivic's and my understanding is also that there should be a UL file number if the UL seal was legit.

    There was a thread WAY back that discussed it. I have always assumed that these are not legitimately UL approved and simply have not been caught yet.

  11. #11
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    New link for UL.

    http://www.ul.com/global/eng/pages/c...0325125400.xml

    This light is sold by Deal Extreme, according to the UL notice, which provides a link to deal extreme.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlownCivic
    How does this (from your link):



    Look anything like this (my picture from above)?



    I will admit that GeomanGear does show a pic of what appears to be that UL warning charger on his website in the listing for the charger on it's own, but the listings for the lightsets themselves show something similar to what I have above (and what came with the MJ-808 lightset that I bought from them in the fall of 2009).

    I have the same charger (geoman, not the deal extream one mentioned in UL listing), and came here to see about any updates too. As for now, I'm just being more careful with my charging, and will ride them if the weather ever cooperates, but looking forward to a more permenant and safe solution.

    Specifically, is there any news about replacements?
    I hear and I forget. I see and I remember. I do and I understand. -- Confucius

  13. #13
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    I'm a bit concerned with placing the MS battery inside my jacket. How concerned should I be compared to other more expensive systems?

    Hey, if you strap it to your carbon bike frame (or aluminum for that matter) and it goes off, it would certainly destroy it. It would definitely destroy my skin at least!

    Would a li-po back be beneficial while carrying it inside your jacket?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sebastian78
    I'm a bit concerned with placing the MS battery inside my jacket. How concerned should I be compared to other more expensive systems?

    Hey, if you strap it to your carbon bike frame (or aluminum for that matter) and it goes off, it would certainly destroy it. It would definitely destroy my skin at least!

    Would a li-po back be beneficial while carrying it inside your jacket?
    Dude.....

    Quote Originally Posted by testtech
    New link for UL.

    http://www.ul.com/global/eng/pages/c...0325125400.xml

    This light is sold by Deal Extreme, according to the UL notice, which provides a link to deal extreme.
    Interestingly, the UL statement states that they have not evaluated the power supply...

    ....This power supply has not been evaluated by UL to the appropriate standard for safety for the United States or Canada and is not authorized to bear the UL Mark. It is unknown if this power supply complies with United States or Canadian safety requirements...
    First, if they haven't evaluated it they can't say if it's safe or not. UL isn't going to do that because to do so would be to give a free evaluation. I'm sure people have to pay to get the UL seal of approval.
    Secondly, UL is only commenting on the power supply to the charger, not the entire charger. The power supply supplies power to the charging circuits which do the actual charging. Most people here are only concerned how well the actual charging circuits are working. For us, that is the main issue. As long as the power supply isn't going up in flames we're good. The power supply might actually meet UL standards but they're not going to give their blessing on it without someone greasing their palms. Shame on MS for stealing that UL logo.... .....Shame, shame, shame....
    Last edited by Cat-man-do; 12-22-2010 at 04:59 AM.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-man-do
    Secondly, UL is only commenting on the power supply to the charger, not the entire charger.
    The power supply is inside the charger, all-in-one. It's a box with AC plug and a cord to the battery. What you see in the pics is it. So "power supply" == "charger".
    Long Live Long Rides

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Homebrew
    The power supply is inside the charger, all-in-one. It's a box with AC plug and a cord to the battery. What you see in the pics is it. So "power supply" == "charger".
    Yes, the power supply and charger are in the same box but in the electronic world they are considered separate circuits that perform a separate function. The power supply converts the AC to DC. The Charging circuits need DC so it can modulate the input current and voltage to the batteries. In the business world words are chosen very carefully. Your 52'" TV has a power supply housed in the same box as the TV. It doesn't mean UL is rating the entire circuitry of the TV, only the power supply.

    However in this case you could be making a good point. If the power supply was bad it could affect the charging circuits because they are housed so close together. Perhaps my previous comments are moot.

  17. #17
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    Wow! Sebastion78, that's some scary thoughts my friend!

    We are one of the "more expensive" light manufacturers and I can honestly say that I have never worried about putting one of our batteries in my jersey pocket or Camelback - let alone thought about a battery blowing up my bike's frame...scary thoughts. I think that may take some of the fun out of night riding...(you should not need a LiPo bag for your battery, it's sad that you have to think that way)

    E-mail me at Shannon@BajaDesigns.com and we'll see what we can do to get you into a light system that you can place on your body without fear.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by BajaDesignsShannon
    Wow! Sebastion78, that's some scary thoughts my friend!

    We are one of the "more expensive" light manufacturers and I can honestly say that I have never worried about putting one of our batteries in my jersey pocket or Camelback - let alone thought about a battery blowing up my bike's frame...scary thoughts. I think that may take some of the fun out of night riding...(you should not need a LiPo bag for your battery, it's sad that you have to think that way)

    E-mail me at Shannon@BajaDesigns.com and we'll see what we can do to get you into a light system that you can place on your body without fear.
    Not showing a lot of class when you have to resort to bashing a competitor to sell your product if you have so much faith in your product why not take the high road. I wont vote for a politician that instead of telling us the whats good about themselves. they have to tell you whats wrong with the other guy. same goes with business. I own a business that is very competitive and the last thing iI would do is talk someone else down I let my work stand on its own.
    Just my opinion but it seems your being pretty petty
    I always type in bold cuz I'm blind as a bat
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  19. #19
    TCW
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    Or you can look at it this way. The MS lights got people hooked on nightriding and now, with the deal, will be upgrading to a higher quality light. Basically, the MS lights facilitated the addiction. Btw, my MS are still working fine after a year but I may snag a Strykr because of the trade in.

  20. #20
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    Cat-man-do,

    You may have passed UL compliant certification of a product more recently than me (it's been a while), but the only time they used to consider a power supply separate was if it was a wall transformer (or whatever you want to call the plastic brick that plugs into the wall) that plugged into your electrical device. The MagicShine charger is a wholly contained unit, so they probably mistakenly called it a power supply. It was never inspected by them. It seems unreasonable for them to open it up to see what it really is, that costs them time. They were simply warning consumers, via their web page, that "we never looked at this, you are being lied to by whoever put our label on this box".

    They pretty much look at everything inside a box that plugs into 120 VAC (in the US). If even the smallest part of it looks dodgy, they flunk your design. It can take months to pass a UL design inspection (for complex things like TVs) and it is not cheap.

    Now I'm not a UL inspector or a safety engineer, but the insides of the 2 MagicShine chargers (or power supplies) I looked at would not have passed UL specs as I remember them. They both had substandard printed circuit board material. UL likes to see FR4 printed circuit boards of a certain thickness (they don't burn very easily). The ones I saw were pretty thin, and had pretty crappy through hole soldering that had been done by hand. None of this is the sign of a quality piece of electronics.

    The units I opened up did not have a false UL label on them, but looked from the outside, an awfully lot like the ones with the bogus markings (on the UL web site). I'm not about to buy another charger for a light I tossed 9 months ago, but if you'd like my impression of the one you have (from China or GeoMan), I'll gladly open it up and give an opinion. Send me a PM if interested.

    All I'm trying to say is if a company lies to you (I am referring to the Chinese company that makes the MagicShine) and comes out with a "UL listed" charger that does not meet UL specs for what the listing markings look like, it seems reasonable to think you might have been lied to again.

    Mark
    Nimium est melior!

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakuman
    Not showing a lot of class when you have to resort to bashing a competitor to sell your product if you have so much faith in your product why not take the high road. I wont vote for a politician that instead of telling us the whats good about themselves. they have to tell you whats wrong with the other guy. same goes with business. I own a business that is very competitive and the last thing iI would do is talk someone else down I let my work stand on its own.
    Just my opinion but it seems your being pretty petty
    True. Pretty poor form Baja-designs. Shame on you

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by TCW
    Or you can look at it this way. The MS lights got people hooked on nightriding and now, with the deal, will be upgrading to a higher quality light. Basically, the MS lights facilitated the addiction. Btw, my MS are still working fine after a year but I may snag a Strykr because of the trade in.
    I think people were hooked on night riding MTB some 20 years ago when Night Sun and Nite Rider where to the big players...I think MS at that low cost allowed people to upgrade into a high output light and that in itself became addicting. Now, they could never go back even if it cost more....

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakuman
    I wont vote for a politician that instead of telling us the whats good about themselves. they have to tell you whats wrong with the other guy.
    So I take it you have never voted then.
    Last edited by sankaman; 12-23-2010 at 01:20 AM.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by mhahn@hvc.rr.com
    Cat-man-do,

    You may have passed UL compliant certification of a product more recently than me (it's been a while), but the only time they used to consider a power supply separate was if it was a wall transformer (or whatever you want to call the plastic brick that plugs into the wall) that plugged into your electrical device. The MagicShine charger is a wholly contained unit, so they probably mistakenly called it a power supply. It was never inspected by them. It seems unreasonable for them to open it up to see what it really is, that costs them time. They were simply warning consumers, via their web page, that "we never looked at this, you are being lied to by whoever put our label on this box".

    They pretty much look at everything inside a box that plugs into 120 VAC (in the US). If even the smallest part of it looks dodgy, they flunk your design. It can take months to pass a UL design inspection (for complex things like TVs) and it is not cheap.

    Now I'm not a UL inspector or a safety engineer, but the insides of the 2 MagicShine chargers (or power supplies) I looked at would not have passed UL specs as I remember them. They both had substandard printed circuit board material. UL likes to see FR4 printed circuit boards of a certain thickness (they don't burn very easily). The ones I saw were pretty thin, and had pretty crappy through hole soldering that had been done by hand. None of this is the sign of a quality piece of electronics.

    The units I opened up did not have a false UL label on them, but looked from the outside, an awfully lot like the ones with the bogus markings (on the UL web site). I'm not about to buy another charger for a light I tossed 9 months ago, but if you'd like my impression of the one you have (from China or GeoMan), I'll gladly open it up and give an opinion. Send me a PM if interested.

    All I'm trying to say is if a company lies to you (I am referring to the Chinese company that makes the MagicShine) and comes out with a "UL listed" charger that does not meet UL specs for what the listing markings look like, it seems reasonable to think you might have been lied to again.

    Mark
    I have absolutely no idea how or what UL does when they certify a product. I only know that a lot of stuff with the UL stamp is crap ( as a whole that is ) and that other stuff with no UL mark works perfectly well ( although it may be crap as well ). I have no problem with what you're saying. I agree totally. I just wonder how many other products are out there floating around with bogus UL markings. Something tells me this is not unusual. The Chinese make lots of different kinds of chargers. Some have UL markings and some don't. As a consumer, how are we suppose to know the bogus from the real? My Dinotte charger is made in Taiwan and is UL marked. I have a Powerizer AA battery charger made in China that is UL marked. My main concern is that the stuff I buy works the way I expect it to work whether it has a UL label or not. As long as it's not going up in smoke and does what it's suppose to, I'm good. Heck, most electronics are imported anyway, who really knows what quality standards they actually adhere to? Must be hard to enforce strict US standards on stuff made outside of the country, UL listed or not. Basically I think the Chinese company that makes the MS is just unlucky enough to have been caught. What will really make me laugh is if MS comes out with a new charger and the new charger has the UL listing as well.

    Sankaman quoting Rakuman:

    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by Rakuman I wont vote for a politician that instead of telling us the whats good about themselves. they have to tell you whats wrong with the other guy. [/QUOTE

    So I take it you have never voted then.
    Oh that is so good!!!! LMAO
    Last edited by Cat-man-do; 12-23-2010 at 03:45 AM.

  25. #25
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    I want to chime in on the Baja bashing aswell! I read the post and thought the same thing as others have mentioned, not the time and place for a Baja ad. However, when I reread the post I did wonder if you can take the view that if you are spending your riding time worrying about your camelbak bursting into flames - you might not be enjoying your ride!
    I cant speak for Baja, but maybe they weren't actually bashing MS, just pointing out that you can ride without worrying.
    Me, I'm not a worrier!
    I still have my magicshine, and when I bought it there were already people in Australia on the "It'll burn your house down" bandwagon. I bought it anyway. I still use it, but when I know I can buy a better battery/charger/whatever the problem is, I will. In the mean time, I'm not going to lose any sleep over it - but thats just me. If it does start to play on my mind, who do I look to for a light? Well it'll probably be a local company so I know I can have some backup, and if I were a US local I'd be plenty keen on a company that is actually on these forums and actually involved in dialogue with light users (although I'm sure Baja will stay out of this thread from now on!). And from what I've seen here I think that Geoman and Baja have only done the right thing through this process and I'm suitably impressed. A voluntary recall with virtually no way to prove where it was purchased! Offering to do a deal to unsatisfied customers of another brand! Both great business sense, but probably eating heavily into the margins for both companies.

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