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  1. #1
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    Any NEW news on MS??

    Just curious if anyone knows anything new about the recall? Seems pretty quite about it around here recently. I havent been riding due to the frigid temps anyway. I assume everyone is just waiting on the next steps from geoman.

  2. #2
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    Same here... its been too cold and icy to ride. I still will use my batterys as always, but am just real careful when storing and especially charging.

    Just going by what Geoman has said... he is still working on a solution and also I read on another forum that he has some stuff in hand and is testing, etc. But I did NOT hear it first hand from Geoman so take it for what its worth.

  3. #3
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    I couldn't wait, gotta ride to work in the dark and love my MS fr/r lights so did the all-batt battery. Took only a few minutes to solder/waterproof the connectors on (ordered a few Y cables from GEOMAN) and got it all working. Maybe 50bucks tops. Worth it to me to keep riding, and I have extra connectors for future replacement batteries.

    At this point, one of my MS batteries is dead- charger comes on green right away. It's the one in the metal can that came with the front light. My older style one works, but lasts only about 2/3 of what it did just a few months ago. I had been rotating them every month, but now just keep them in a metal can. I hope that All-Batt battery lasts longer.
    Tzvia.

  4. #4
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    News?
    Here is some BAD news...

    Update: bad news.
    The light heads are awesome, the problems seem to all be in the chargers/batteries

    http://www.ul.com/global/eng/pages/c...0325125400.xml

    UL warns of a bicycle light with unauthorized UL power supply

    Northbrook, Ill., - March 25, 2010 - Underwriters Laboratories (UL) is notifying retailers and consumers that the power supply provided with the bicycle lighting system identified below, bears an unauthorized UL Mark for the United States and Canada. This power supply has not been evaluated by UL to the appropriate standard for safety for the United States or Canada and is not authorized to bear the UL Mark. It is unknown if this power supply complies with United States or Canadian safety requirements.

    Name of Product: Power Supply, Model GFP302-0512

    Number of Units: Unknown

    Manufacturer: Unknown

    Date of Manufacture: Unknown

    Identification: On the product:

    LI-ION CHARGER


    MODEL: GFP302-0512




    INPUT: 100-240V 50/60Hz




    OUTPUT: DC 8.5V/1800mA
    "We LOVE cows! They make trails for us.....

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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzvia
    I couldn't wait, gotta ride to work in the dark and love my MS fr/r lights so did the all-batt battery. Took only a few minutes to solder/waterproof the connectors on (ordered a few Y cables from GEOMAN) and got it all working. Maybe 50bucks tops. Worth it to me to keep riding, and I have extra connectors for future replacement batteries.

    At this point, one of my MS batteries is dead- charger comes on green right away. It's the one in the metal can that came with the front light. My older style one works, but lasts only about 2/3 of what it did just a few months ago. I had been rotating them every month, but now just keep them in a metal can. I hope that All-Batt battery lasts longer.
    Are you just using your MS charger with the All-Batt battery?

  6. #6
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    And if you look beyond the actual warning, you'll discover that the charger that was shipped with your MagicShine lightset from GeomanGear probably is nothing like the one in that warning:






  7. #7
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    Although you have to love the irony of "CAUTION: INDOOR USE ONLY."

  8. #8
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    Your pictures don't look like the pictures GeoManGear has on it's web site for the charger. Those pictures look an awful lot like the ones on the UL bogus listing warning page (which can be found here).

    I also don't see a UL file number on the picture of your charger. I'm pretty sure most UL listed stuff has a file number someplace on it, so you can look it up on their web site. I could be wrong, your charger may be legit. But if I were you, I'd do some research before plugging it again.

    So the batteries sometimes catch fire, and depending where (and perhaps when) you bought your MagicShine, it's charger might not meet standard safety practices. Oh yeah, those lights were a real bargain .

    I think I'll keep building my own,

    Mark
    Last edited by mhahn@hvc.rr.com; 12-21-2010 at 05:37 AM.
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  9. #9
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    How does this (from your link):



    Look anything like this (my picture from above)?



    I will admit that GeomanGear does show a pic of what appears to be that UL warning charger on his website in the listing for the charger on it's own, but the listings for the lightsets themselves show something similar to what I have above (and what came with the MJ-808 lightset that I bought from them in the fall of 2009).

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by mhahn@hvc.rr.com
    ...I also don't see a UL file number on the picture of your charger. I'm pretty sure most UL listed stuff has a file number someplace on it, so you can look it up on their web site....
    My chargers are the same as BlownCivic's and my understanding is also that there should be a UL file number if the UL seal was legit.

    There was a thread WAY back that discussed it. I have always assumed that these are not legitimately UL approved and simply have not been caught yet.

  11. #11
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    New link for UL.

    http://www.ul.com/global/eng/pages/c...0325125400.xml

    This light is sold by Deal Extreme, according to the UL notice, which provides a link to deal extreme.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlownCivic
    How does this (from your link):



    Look anything like this (my picture from above)?



    I will admit that GeomanGear does show a pic of what appears to be that UL warning charger on his website in the listing for the charger on it's own, but the listings for the lightsets themselves show something similar to what I have above (and what came with the MJ-808 lightset that I bought from them in the fall of 2009).

    I have the same charger (geoman, not the deal extream one mentioned in UL listing), and came here to see about any updates too. As for now, I'm just being more careful with my charging, and will ride them if the weather ever cooperates, but looking forward to a more permenant and safe solution.

    Specifically, is there any news about replacements?
    I hear and I forget. I see and I remember. I do and I understand. -- Confucius

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    I'm a bit concerned with placing the MS battery inside my jacket. How concerned should I be compared to other more expensive systems?

    Hey, if you strap it to your carbon bike frame (or aluminum for that matter) and it goes off, it would certainly destroy it. It would definitely destroy my skin at least!

    Would a li-po back be beneficial while carrying it inside your jacket?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sebastian78
    I'm a bit concerned with placing the MS battery inside my jacket. How concerned should I be compared to other more expensive systems?

    Hey, if you strap it to your carbon bike frame (or aluminum for that matter) and it goes off, it would certainly destroy it. It would definitely destroy my skin at least!

    Would a li-po back be beneficial while carrying it inside your jacket?
    Dude.....

    Quote Originally Posted by testtech
    New link for UL.

    http://www.ul.com/global/eng/pages/c...0325125400.xml

    This light is sold by Deal Extreme, according to the UL notice, which provides a link to deal extreme.
    Interestingly, the UL statement states that they have not evaluated the power supply...

    ....This power supply has not been evaluated by UL to the appropriate standard for safety for the United States or Canada and is not authorized to bear the UL Mark. It is unknown if this power supply complies with United States or Canadian safety requirements...
    First, if they haven't evaluated it they can't say if it's safe or not. UL isn't going to do that because to do so would be to give a free evaluation. I'm sure people have to pay to get the UL seal of approval.
    Secondly, UL is only commenting on the power supply to the charger, not the entire charger. The power supply supplies power to the charging circuits which do the actual charging. Most people here are only concerned how well the actual charging circuits are working. For us, that is the main issue. As long as the power supply isn't going up in flames we're good. The power supply might actually meet UL standards but they're not going to give their blessing on it without someone greasing their palms. Shame on MS for stealing that UL logo.... .....Shame, shame, shame....
    Last edited by Cat-man-do; 12-22-2010 at 03:59 AM.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-man-do
    Secondly, UL is only commenting on the power supply to the charger, not the entire charger.
    The power supply is inside the charger, all-in-one. It's a box with AC plug and a cord to the battery. What you see in the pics is it. So "power supply" == "charger".
    Long Live Long Rides

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Homebrew
    The power supply is inside the charger, all-in-one. It's a box with AC plug and a cord to the battery. What you see in the pics is it. So "power supply" == "charger".
    Yes, the power supply and charger are in the same box but in the electronic world they are considered separate circuits that perform a separate function. The power supply converts the AC to DC. The Charging circuits need DC so it can modulate the input current and voltage to the batteries. In the business world words are chosen very carefully. Your 52'" TV has a power supply housed in the same box as the TV. It doesn't mean UL is rating the entire circuitry of the TV, only the power supply.

    However in this case you could be making a good point. If the power supply was bad it could affect the charging circuits because they are housed so close together. Perhaps my previous comments are moot.

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    Wow! Sebastion78, that's some scary thoughts my friend!

    We are one of the "more expensive" light manufacturers and I can honestly say that I have never worried about putting one of our batteries in my jersey pocket or Camelback - let alone thought about a battery blowing up my bike's frame...scary thoughts. I think that may take some of the fun out of night riding...(you should not need a LiPo bag for your battery, it's sad that you have to think that way)

    E-mail me at Shannon@BajaDesigns.com and we'll see what we can do to get you into a light system that you can place on your body without fear.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by BajaDesignsShannon
    Wow! Sebastion78, that's some scary thoughts my friend!

    We are one of the "more expensive" light manufacturers and I can honestly say that I have never worried about putting one of our batteries in my jersey pocket or Camelback - let alone thought about a battery blowing up my bike's frame...scary thoughts. I think that may take some of the fun out of night riding...(you should not need a LiPo bag for your battery, it's sad that you have to think that way)

    E-mail me at Shannon@BajaDesigns.com and we'll see what we can do to get you into a light system that you can place on your body without fear.
    Not showing a lot of class when you have to resort to bashing a competitor to sell your product if you have so much faith in your product why not take the high road. I wont vote for a politician that instead of telling us the whats good about themselves. they have to tell you whats wrong with the other guy. same goes with business. I own a business that is very competitive and the last thing iI would do is talk someone else down I let my work stand on its own.
    Just my opinion but it seems your being pretty petty
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  19. #19
    TCW
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    Or you can look at it this way. The MS lights got people hooked on nightriding and now, with the deal, will be upgrading to a higher quality light. Basically, the MS lights facilitated the addiction. Btw, my MS are still working fine after a year but I may snag a Strykr because of the trade in.

  20. #20
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    Cat-man-do,

    You may have passed UL compliant certification of a product more recently than me (it's been a while), but the only time they used to consider a power supply separate was if it was a wall transformer (or whatever you want to call the plastic brick that plugs into the wall) that plugged into your electrical device. The MagicShine charger is a wholly contained unit, so they probably mistakenly called it a power supply. It was never inspected by them. It seems unreasonable for them to open it up to see what it really is, that costs them time. They were simply warning consumers, via their web page, that "we never looked at this, you are being lied to by whoever put our label on this box".

    They pretty much look at everything inside a box that plugs into 120 VAC (in the US). If even the smallest part of it looks dodgy, they flunk your design. It can take months to pass a UL design inspection (for complex things like TVs) and it is not cheap.

    Now I'm not a UL inspector or a safety engineer, but the insides of the 2 MagicShine chargers (or power supplies) I looked at would not have passed UL specs as I remember them. They both had substandard printed circuit board material. UL likes to see FR4 printed circuit boards of a certain thickness (they don't burn very easily). The ones I saw were pretty thin, and had pretty crappy through hole soldering that had been done by hand. None of this is the sign of a quality piece of electronics.

    The units I opened up did not have a false UL label on them, but looked from the outside, an awfully lot like the ones with the bogus markings (on the UL web site). I'm not about to buy another charger for a light I tossed 9 months ago, but if you'd like my impression of the one you have (from China or GeoMan), I'll gladly open it up and give an opinion. Send me a PM if interested.

    All I'm trying to say is if a company lies to you (I am referring to the Chinese company that makes the MagicShine) and comes out with a "UL listed" charger that does not meet UL specs for what the listing markings look like, it seems reasonable to think you might have been lied to again.

    Mark
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakuman
    Not showing a lot of class when you have to resort to bashing a competitor to sell your product if you have so much faith in your product why not take the high road. I wont vote for a politician that instead of telling us the whats good about themselves. they have to tell you whats wrong with the other guy. same goes with business. I own a business that is very competitive and the last thing iI would do is talk someone else down I let my work stand on its own.
    Just my opinion but it seems your being pretty petty
    True. Pretty poor form Baja-designs. Shame on you

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by TCW
    Or you can look at it this way. The MS lights got people hooked on nightriding and now, with the deal, will be upgrading to a higher quality light. Basically, the MS lights facilitated the addiction. Btw, my MS are still working fine after a year but I may snag a Strykr because of the trade in.
    I think people were hooked on night riding MTB some 20 years ago when Night Sun and Nite Rider where to the big players...I think MS at that low cost allowed people to upgrade into a high output light and that in itself became addicting. Now, they could never go back even if it cost more....

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakuman
    I wont vote for a politician that instead of telling us the whats good about themselves. they have to tell you whats wrong with the other guy.
    So I take it you have never voted then.
    Last edited by sankaman; 12-23-2010 at 12:20 AM.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by mhahn@hvc.rr.com
    Cat-man-do,

    You may have passed UL compliant certification of a product more recently than me (it's been a while), but the only time they used to consider a power supply separate was if it was a wall transformer (or whatever you want to call the plastic brick that plugs into the wall) that plugged into your electrical device. The MagicShine charger is a wholly contained unit, so they probably mistakenly called it a power supply. It was never inspected by them. It seems unreasonable for them to open it up to see what it really is, that costs them time. They were simply warning consumers, via their web page, that "we never looked at this, you are being lied to by whoever put our label on this box".

    They pretty much look at everything inside a box that plugs into 120 VAC (in the US). If even the smallest part of it looks dodgy, they flunk your design. It can take months to pass a UL design inspection (for complex things like TVs) and it is not cheap.

    Now I'm not a UL inspector or a safety engineer, but the insides of the 2 MagicShine chargers (or power supplies) I looked at would not have passed UL specs as I remember them. They both had substandard printed circuit board material. UL likes to see FR4 printed circuit boards of a certain thickness (they don't burn very easily). The ones I saw were pretty thin, and had pretty crappy through hole soldering that had been done by hand. None of this is the sign of a quality piece of electronics.

    The units I opened up did not have a false UL label on them, but looked from the outside, an awfully lot like the ones with the bogus markings (on the UL web site). I'm not about to buy another charger for a light I tossed 9 months ago, but if you'd like my impression of the one you have (from China or GeoMan), I'll gladly open it up and give an opinion. Send me a PM if interested.

    All I'm trying to say is if a company lies to you (I am referring to the Chinese company that makes the MagicShine) and comes out with a "UL listed" charger that does not meet UL specs for what the listing markings look like, it seems reasonable to think you might have been lied to again.

    Mark
    I have absolutely no idea how or what UL does when they certify a product. I only know that a lot of stuff with the UL stamp is crap ( as a whole that is ) and that other stuff with no UL mark works perfectly well ( although it may be crap as well ). I have no problem with what you're saying. I agree totally. I just wonder how many other products are out there floating around with bogus UL markings. Something tells me this is not unusual. The Chinese make lots of different kinds of chargers. Some have UL markings and some don't. As a consumer, how are we suppose to know the bogus from the real? My Dinotte charger is made in Taiwan and is UL marked. I have a Powerizer AA battery charger made in China that is UL marked. My main concern is that the stuff I buy works the way I expect it to work whether it has a UL label or not. As long as it's not going up in smoke and does what it's suppose to, I'm good. Heck, most electronics are imported anyway, who really knows what quality standards they actually adhere to? Must be hard to enforce strict US standards on stuff made outside of the country, UL listed or not. Basically I think the Chinese company that makes the MS is just unlucky enough to have been caught. What will really make me laugh is if MS comes out with a new charger and the new charger has the UL listing as well.

    Sankaman quoting Rakuman:

    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by Rakuman I wont vote for a politician that instead of telling us the whats good about themselves. they have to tell you whats wrong with the other guy. [/QUOTE

    So I take it you have never voted then.
    Oh that is so good!!!! LMAO
    Last edited by Cat-man-do; 12-23-2010 at 02:45 AM.

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    I want to chime in on the Baja bashing aswell! I read the post and thought the same thing as others have mentioned, not the time and place for a Baja ad. However, when I reread the post I did wonder if you can take the view that if you are spending your riding time worrying about your camelbak bursting into flames - you might not be enjoying your ride!
    I cant speak for Baja, but maybe they weren't actually bashing MS, just pointing out that you can ride without worrying.
    Me, I'm not a worrier!
    I still have my magicshine, and when I bought it there were already people in Australia on the "It'll burn your house down" bandwagon. I bought it anyway. I still use it, but when I know I can buy a better battery/charger/whatever the problem is, I will. In the mean time, I'm not going to lose any sleep over it - but thats just me. If it does start to play on my mind, who do I look to for a light? Well it'll probably be a local company so I know I can have some backup, and if I were a US local I'd be plenty keen on a company that is actually on these forums and actually involved in dialogue with light users (although I'm sure Baja will stay out of this thread from now on!). And from what I've seen here I think that Geoman and Baja have only done the right thing through this process and I'm suitably impressed. A voluntary recall with virtually no way to prove where it was purchased! Offering to do a deal to unsatisfied customers of another brand! Both great business sense, but probably eating heavily into the margins for both companies.

  26. #26
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    My take on Baja: 1) they tried to play on one persons fears to make a sale...bad form. 2) They have inflated the price of their product so they can give you a "discount" if you send in another system. Granted, this is just my take on this type of promotion.

    Cat-man-do - "As a consumer, how are we suppose to know the bogus from the real?"

    That's what the file number with the UL symbol is for. You can go to the UL website and look up the file number to confirm what company and product it was issued for.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by sankaman
    So I take it you have never voted then.
    Your right I have not voted for a politician lately, neither party represents me, whats wrong with this country is we are forced to choose between two evils i vote now only on the proposals
    My line don't blame me I didn't vote for him.
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  28. #28
    TCW
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    Quote Originally Posted by RipRoar
    I think people were hooked on night riding MTB some 20 years ago when Night Sun and Nite Rider where to the big players...I think MS at that low cost allowed people to upgrade into a high output light and that in itself became addicting. Now, they could never go back even if it cost more....
    So true. Toting around 4 lbs worth of battery to power halogens was a pain back in the day. I guess I should've said MS got some more people into night riding. I know there are quite a few riders around here that tried it, now love it, because the MS lights made it possible at a low price.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmcttr
    My take on Baja: 1) they tried to play on one persons fears to make a sale...bad form.
    I agree with that statement, esp. when the issue pretty clearly seems to be a danger when charging and not while using it. In general, I think it is bad form to "kick" a competitor when they are down. It's pretty much never going to your business, even if it's 100% true.

    Having said that, I don't think it's really a big deal. I give the company huge props for exposing themselves to the forum. It's a significant risk for a company to participate in a forum like this. It only takes one post that wasn't intented in the spirit that it was written, or just having a bad day, etc, could do damage to the reputation to the company. How often do politions speak out in public and problems ensue?

    Just the fact that Baja is online to have discussions would make me consider going with them. You have to have confidence in your product to do that.

    I think that so far Geoman has really been exemplary in how he operates on mtbr. Forums can be a challenging addition to a business, but can be very beneficial if done correctly. I'm sure that Geoman had increased his sales noticably by his mtbr presence alone and how he has handled himself.

  30. #30
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    Re-read BajaDesignsShannon post...he is contributing like everyone else, that was not a hardcore sales pitch going on if you ask me. He just happens to represent his company. Additionally, no one knows if the pack could have issues while discharging.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by BajaDesignsShannon
    A couple of guys have asked some good questions:

    Question: Does the trade-in light have to have a certain MSRP?
    Answer: No, we are not being picky, this is a good time to get rid of that old MS or ____ and let us deal with the smoldering wreckage. (please do not send in any lights that are currently on fire)
    Shannon
    Quote taken from another thread
    I could go back and find quite of few more examples of Shannons bashing of magicshine to sell his own lights I just think if these baja designs lights are so good he shouldn't have take swipes at the competition it shows desperation . and yes I re-read post #17 sounds like a sales pitch to me
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  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by TCW
    Or you can look at it this way. The MS lights got people hooked on nightriding and now, with the deal, will be upgrading to a higher quality light. Basically, the MS lights facilitated the addiction. Btw, my MS are still working fine after a year but I may snag a Strykr because of the trade in.
    Interessting thought....more like giving non-addicts free/very cheap crack and get them hooked?

    I've never really gotten into night riding because it's been too "expensive" for just a bike light and for some time now I've been searching for a lighting system that would allow me to use it for a) biking b) hiking c) Nighttime Randonee (There' no light in the north of Norway now 24/7).

    Magicshine was actually the first system that could do all this. The totally opposite would be the Silva Alpha 6 and there's no way that would be an option. (Here, it's approxiately 850 USD converted from NOK)

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    Never trust a salesperson.....never, not even if your life depends on it. When you follow this rule, you're pretty safe from harm and salespeople are pretty ok people to be around. (I've been one)

    Now I've never owned a lighting system. I have no knowledge on batteries or electrical system. I found the Magicshine system almost by accident and checked around here for information. From what I could gather, there have been some problems with their batteries and their chargers. I've also read a lot of information about Li-po, read a lot about iPhones exploding and seen YouTube videos. I then scetched out, what in my mind would be a plausible scanario of the batteri exploding while inside your jacket or on my frame. I still think it's plausible.

    Regarding Baja: What if every light manufacturer "contributed" in this blatant way, it would be like spam filling your inbox and people would stop using the forum. Now, it would be pretty naive to think that manufacturers of any kind of mtb related products don't go undercover here (or anywhere). It might be written with a touch of irony and a dash of California yo-dude weed induced humor....I dunno. At least they have lifetime warranty on their lights!

    Regarding lighting systems in general: They've put a premium on their products for too long. I don't know if it the battery manufacturers who are the "problem" or the light manufacturers but it's been like this for some time. Magicshine, love em' or hate em. They are getting cheap systems out to people who haven't had one before, they are putting pressure on the establishment, reducing the price for everyone and helping sell more lights. All in all, Magicshine should be given some sort of medal for being the perfect example of how capitalism is good for you.
    Last edited by Sebastian78; 12-23-2010 at 10:51 AM.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sebastian78
    Never trust a salesperson.....never, not even if your life depends on it. When you follow this rule, you're pretty safe from harm and salespeople are pretty ok people to be around. (I've been one)

    All in all, Magicshine should be given some sort of medal for being the perfect example of how capitalism is good for you.
    This is so so hilarious, aaaaalrighty then. Thanks for the insight!.

    This turned out to be another Benny Hill thread....

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    Quote Originally Posted by RipRoar
    This is so so hilarious, aaaaalrighty then. Thanks for the insight!.

    This turned out to be another Benny Hill thread....
    Take everything out of context will you.....

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    Clarification Time...

    Quote Originally Posted by ctxcrossx
    I agree with that statement, esp. when the issue pretty clearly seems to be a danger when charging and not while using it. In general, I think it is bad form to "kick" a competitor when they are down. It's pretty much never going to your business, even if it's 100% true.

    Having said that, I don't think it's really a big deal. I give the company huge props for exposing themselves to the forum. It's a significant risk for a company to participate in a forum like this. It only takes one post that wasn't intented in the spirit that it was written, or just having a bad day, etc, could do damage to the reputation to the company. How often do politions speak out in public and problems ensue?

    Just the fact that Baja is online to have discussions would make me consider going with them. You have to have confidence in your product to do that.

    I think that so far Geoman has really been exemplary in how he operates on mtbr. Forums can be a challenging addition to a business, but can be very beneficial if done correctly. I'm sure that Geoman had increased his sales noticably by his mtbr presence alone and how he has handled himself.
    Thank you Ctxcrossx, my post was ACTUAL concern for that poor guy trying to go have fun on his bike while worrying about his battery catching fire, that is not much fun - it doesn't matter what company made the battery. It was not an attempt to put down Magic Shine, I think it is awesome that quite a few riders may have tried, and got hooked on, night riding thanks to them.

    As far as GeoMan goes, those guys rock, great retailer. I met one of their reps at a 24 race in AZ last month, I have nothing but respect for them and the way they conduct business, they don't make MS they sell it and I think they have done a super job thus far with the recall, this has to be a nightmare for them.

    I was not necessarily just posting to make a sale to the rider that is worried about his battery, I don't honestly care what brand light he goes with. I just think that if he is like me and has a wife and kids and has a limited amount of time to go ride it's sad that he has to spend that time worrying about a possible fault in his battery. I just happen to be in a position where I can help him.

    To the guy who said something about us inflating our price so we could give you a deal...well, the "inflation" is called margin, (margin is how we feed our families and buy bike stuff) when we give someone a trade in value of $100.00 for a broken light that cost the guy $89.00 and then sell a system that retails at $298.95 for $198.95, a few things happen: the rider saves money, he gets an excellent light system, Baja Designs gets a sale (all be at a 33% discount off an already fair MSRP), and most importantly to us as a company one more rider gets out there with a Strykr system, we believe our lights are of such a quality as to sell itself to the Strykr owners buddies.

    Ctxcrossx is correct, we firmly believe in our products and back them with a life-time warranty on the light-heads and electronics, not many manufacturers do that. We are on MTBR.com as a company because we honestly believe that MTBR is a great place in which to get our message out, that is why we advertise here and that is why I chime in when I think we may be able to help someone. To be honest, yes, I am also here to promote Baja Designs bicycle lights, that is my job, this is how my multiple little bike riders get fed and I keep a roof over their heads, I make no apologies for that.

    I find it fun to talk about bike riding and specifically about lights and night riding which I have a deep understanding of, an understanding which has come through 12 years of experience in bicycle light manufacturing, scores of 24hr races, zillions of large group night rides, and 3 years prior to that at a bicycle retailer. I have heard and physically experienced so many things while following this career path that sometimes I just can't help but want to chime in on a post - that was the case with the poor guy worried about his batteries, I felt bad for him. Regardless of flak I may catch I will always speak up when I feel something can be done for a person.

    Hopefully this explains my position and what I was trying accomplish, there is no need to shy away from trying to help someone out, I happen to be in a position to do that, at least as far as lights go.

    Shannon

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    I like it. Attitude. I think I'll look at Baja's next time I need a light (I'm still riding with explosive batteries)

  38. #38
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    Ridiculous to put special restrictions on the dude just cause he's a Baja Designs rep. Sounds like he's a rider giving another rider valid advice. And companies like BD support all of us by sponsoring sites like this. I think its nice to see active co reps contributing to our forums. Let's get back on topic before the thread devolves further. Interesting topic.
    <Insert clever saying here>

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmcttr
    My take on Baja: 1) they tried to play on one persons fears to make a sale...bad form. 2) They have inflated the price of their product so they can give you a "discount" if you send in another system. Granted, this is just my take on this type of promotion.

    Cat-man-do - "As a consumer, how are we suppose to know the bogus from the real?"

    That's what the file number with the UL symbol is for. You can go to the UL website and look up the file number to confirm what company and product it was issued for.
    That's fine. So we look the file number up AFTER we buy the product?

    FWIW, I just looked up two products I own. The Powerzier AA charger WAS listed. The Dinotte charger WAS NOT listed.....however.....There was not a complete file number listed on the charger. Additionally, the UL site stated that NOT ALL file numbers are listed through their on line service. Not to mention, the UL site does not look easy to navigate.
    Now with all that said, even if all the numbers were listed and the UL web site had everything you needed, it begs the following questions"

    1) Are you going to check for UL listing before you buy? That would be a real PITA if I do say so.
    2)Are you going to return the product simply because there is no UL label or the printed UL label on the product does not clear with UL? Once again no real answer and a PITA I do say.
    3) Are you going to buy the product and keep it ( if it works ) without worrying about all this UL listing nonsense...

    I don't know about anyone else but I think I'll likely follow option three.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakuman
    Quote taken from another thread
    I could go back and find quite of few more examples of Shannons bashing of magicshine to sell his own lights I just think if these baja designs lights are so good he shouldn't have take swipes at the competition it shows desperation . and yes I re-read post #17 sounds like a sales pitch to me
    Hah, wow, who would have thought that one little post would turn into this, funny. My apologies to the original poster.

    Rakuman my friend, I think you may need to take a nice long ride on some sweet singletrack and relax. The key words you used were, "Quote taken from another thread", that WAS a sales pitchy type of thread, it was in response to the large number of questions that I get daily from MTBR.com members regarding our Trade-Up Program. I figured it would be good to answer questions riders were sending me before they could ask them, kind of speed up the process for everyone - including myself.

    Also...you mention bashing the competition...you ASSUMED I was talking about MS when I mentioned sending in "smoldering wreckage" that was purely tongue-in-cheek, it was for humorous purposes only. I thought that would be clear when I asked people to not send in lights that were currently on fire. I think most people got the joke. That being said, I think it's great if people can get into night riding at a fair price, it gets people hooked on it. Hey, if your Magicshine is still kickin' booty, great! If not, and someone wants to trade it (or any old, dead, bike light) and get $100 credit towards one of our fine specimens of bicycle lighting - great! (now that was blatant salesmaniness if you are looking for it)

    We think that chiming in here and there on MTBR.com is smart business. What better way to get in touch with hundreds upon hundreds of avid riders on a daily basis than here on MTBR.com? That's why we pay for a rather large advertisement at the top of this page, we know that this is a very good place to be, we love MTBR.com and put our money where our mouth is.

    Sebastion78, I really feel bad for you not trusting sales people. I am one and I trust them and their opinions, I happen to be an honest person, so I assume that other people are honest as well - especially in our very small bicycle industry. I pay particular attention if I sense they know what they're talking about. I do my own research - a lot of which happens here on MTBR.com, then I call the company who's product I am thinking about buying, and then based on that salesperson's demeanor and advice I either buy whatever it is or not.

    I am proud to work for Baja Designs Inc., we are good little American company ran by avid bicycle and off-road enthusiasts. When I do a group demo ride, (at least weekly) or I send a 24hr racer out into the night, I am confident that not only will that rider enjoy his or her experience with our product they more importantly will come back safely, and generally with a big grin on their face. (more salesmaniness - but it is true)

    If you lads ever happen to be in the San Diego area let me know and we'll all go for a ride up in the Laguna's or maybe down Noble Canyon, you'll love it, delicious Mexican post-ride chow is on me!

    Shannon

  41. #41
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    Thanks Rootmaster (slippery roots can be painful), have a Merry Christmas! Let me know if you ever need anything.

  42. #42
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    If that's what you have to do to get business then that's the way YOU do business. Good luck too you
    I always type in bold cuz I'm blind as a bat
    For the Rich there is therapy!!!! for the rest of us we have Mountain Biking


  43. #43
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    Invite always open for night ride and Mexican food

    Quote Originally Posted by Rakuman
    If that's what you have to do to get business then that's the way YOU do business. Good luck too you
    Thanks Rakuman! Building great lights, providing excellent customer service, taking care of riders online, at bike shops, on demo rides, at 12 and 24hr races, and marketing our products through every media that makes sense for us to, is, in fact, how business gets done.

    The invite for a sweet night ride and tasty Mexican food is always open for you my friend.

    Merry Christmas!

    Shannon

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlownCivic
    How does this (from your link):



    Look anything like this (my picture from above)?



    I will admit that GeomanGear does show a pic of what appears to be that UL warning charger on his website in the listing for the charger on it's own, but the listings for the lightsets themselves show something similar to what I have above (and what came with the MJ-808 lightset that I bought from them in the fall of 2009).

    Ok. I am confused now. My charger is the square one at the bottom. Does the recall cover both, or only the rectangular one in the top picture?

    I bought my MS lights this year to do my first night-time race. I would never have done the race or gotten into night riding in the first place except MS had such a good deal on their lights.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by BajaDesignsShannon
    Wow! Sebastion78, that's some scary thoughts my friend!

    We are one of the "more expensive" light manufacturers and I can honestly say that I have never worried about putting one of our batteries in my jersey pocket or Camelback - let alone thought about a battery blowing up my bike's frame...scary thoughts. I think that may take some of the fun out of night riding...(you should not need a LiPo bag for your battery, it's sad that you have to think that way)

    E-mail me at Shannon@BajaDesigns.com and we'll see what we can do to get you into a light system that you can place on your body without fear.
    Even though i agree that it doesn't make good buisiness scense to bash other competitors to make a sale,this does not sound like a bashing to me. Maybe there is a biasness here from an older post, i don't know. What i do know is that there shouldn't need to be any reservation for anyone promoting their product properly on this forum as many others have done.

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    It seems every time Shannon posts in a thread, someone gets all in a dither about it. I for one think his company offers a great product at a fair price - the trade in special is just added incentive to buy. The Strykr was on my short list and me and a riding buddy were ready to buy when he announced the trade-in offer. Both of us had old lights lying around, so it turned out to be a great bonus.

    I couldn't be happier with my purchase. And Shannon has always been more than happy to answer any questions or offer advice to anyone that asks about any product on these forums. When I've called Baja Designs and talked to other people on staff, they are the same way.

    His posts might not always be PC, but wouldn't call out the one above as bashing. His job is to sell, cut him a little slack for doing it well.

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by skankingbiker
    Ok. I am confused now. My charger is the square one at the bottom. Does the recall cover both, or only the rectangular one in the top picture?...
    At this time there is no recall on any of the chargers. There is a warning from UL that there is one charger (the one with the model number UL lists in the warning) that is falsely claiming UL certification.

    There has also been some of us that speculate other chargers with the UL label that do not list the UL file number, may be falsely claiming UL certification.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmcttr
    At this time there is no recall on any of the chargers. There is a warning from UL that there is one charger (the one with the model number UL lists in the warning) that is falsely claiming UL certification.

    There has also been some of us that speculate other chargers with the UL label that do not list the UL file number, may be falsely claiming UL certification.
    One reseller (NZ) has said the helpful folks in China will supply fake UL certs.

    ... Not the factory he uses though.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by znomit
    One reseller (NZ) has said the helpful folks in China will supply fake UL certs.

    ... Not the factory he uses though.

    Do they taste the same?...um...Oh, wait...never mind...you mean certification....

    But seriously, all they have to do is write UL on something and include a known file number and who would know. It's not like they can be sued, they're another country and can copy all they like I presume.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-man-do

    Do they taste the same?...um...Oh, wait...never mind...you mean certification....

    But seriously, all they have to do is write UL on something and include a known file number and who would know. It's not like they can be sued, they're another country and can copy all they like I presume.
    They might qualify for the Mexican safety mark:



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