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  1. #1
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    2016 Gemini lights?

    Has anyone tried the new Gemini lights? I'm particularly interested in the new Titan, 4000 lumen, looks like three duos stuck together. The prices are very reasonable and they now have wireless remotes. Thanks

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    The Titan looks very good for the price, even with the 10400mah battery. I'm only disappointed there is no neutral white LED option.

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    Although I don't find issues with 6000K tints found on the lights I use or the XM-L2 U4 leds in the new Gemini products as I don't find them washing out all the detail on the trails as some do. If not to yellow once back on my bike I will have to see if I can get my hands on a neutral white light. At this point I may not know what I'm missing until I try it. I read a post somewhere where Lupine is offering neutral white led boards for Betty's only at 4900K/or 5000K. Maybe time to switch my led boards.

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    Crazy. Really just 3 Duos together. I wonder if there would be any interference issues with some stems? I like the new Xera. The wireless remotes are sweet.

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    To bad the Xera isn't included in the wireless remote family as it is a good helmet light. I was wondering the same thing about stem clearance with the Titan,, may be an issue with some?

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    ^^^Agree..would be nice.

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    Remote switches (except Xera), better heat-sinking light bodies, new emitters for more poser - all great upgrades to the Gemini line. Also encouraging are the Xera's MTBR lumen/lux test #'s, hopefully the new Duo and Olympia will also more accurately match their power claims. Published runtime claims confusing though, Xera and Duo #'s match previous versions while the Olympia looks to have a considerable reduction in runtime out of its battery options. Looking forward to seeing MTBR's tests on these units.
    Mole

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    Just a guess here, but since last years (claimed 2100 lumen) Olympia fell terribly short on output (1478 lumens actual) if I'm remembering correctly,,, the much shorter runtimes on the 2016 version hopefully is do to a major bump in output which should be north of 2000 if keeping on par with the Xera.

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    Gloworm has their work cut out for them. They're going to have to develop wireless remotes and slash their prices to compete. On the other hand, however, they do have batteries with fuel gauges, the option of neutral white emitters, and a choice of lenses. If Gemini were to offer neutral white emitters it'd be an easy decision.

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    Would someone be so nice to post a link for this lights? TY

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirius9 View Post
    Would someone be so nice to post a link for this lights? TY
    Gemini-lights.com/

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    thanks

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by TiGeo View Post
    Crazy. Really just 3 Duos together. I wonder if there would be any interference issues with some stems? I like the new Xera. The wireless remotes are sweet.

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    Couldnt you use a Magishine Y cable adaptor and run 2 Duo's with a good 6 cell ?
    Hit the trails with your bike and get freaky.

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    Have they done any coupon codes lately?
    "It looks flexy"

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    No but there is a warehouse sale currently going on and some of the prev. gen. Geminis are on sale.

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    Quote Originally Posted by indebt View Post
    Just a guess here, but since last years (claimed 2100 lumen) Olympia fell terribly short on output (1478 lumens actual) if I'm remembering correctly,,, the much shorter runtimes on the 2016 version hopefully is do to a major bump in output which should be north of 2000 if keeping on par with the Xera.
    Even though the Olympia and even the Duo fell short In lumens according to mtbr , those two combined does make a killer light setup .
    Hit the trails with your bike and get freaky.

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    Quote Originally Posted by C.M.S View Post
    Even though the Olympia and even the Duo fell short In lumens according to mtbr , those two combined does make a killer light setup .
    I would have to agree with that,,,,, as I have a Duo/Xera backup set up and it is very nice!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by indebt View Post
    I would have to agree with that,,,,, as I have a Duo/Xera backup set up and it is very nice!!
    I might be missing out on the GW X2 NW option , Duo/Olympia may become a backup set .
    Hit the trails with your bike and get freaky.

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    Quote Originally Posted by C.M.S View Post
    I might be missing out on the GW X2 NW option , Duo/Olympia may become a backup set .
    That's one hell of a back up set lol. I just got confirmation from Dan at Gretna bikes that there are 4900K led boards for my Betty-R's as well as the 2016 Piko. A bit of a delay getting them right now as their swamped just dealing with the new 2016 line up and fulfilling orders. So still sitting in Germany.

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    Quote Originally Posted by indebt View Post
    That's one hell of a back up set lol. I just got confirmation from Dan at Gretna bikes that there are 4900K led boards for my Betty-R's as well as the 2016 Piko. A bit of a delay getting them right now as their swamped just dealing with the new 2016 line up and fulfilling orders. So still sitting in Germany.
    Dang , you turn dirt into glass with the betty's lol
    Hit the trails with your bike and get freaky.

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    That's funny, I just inquired with Dan about the 4900K boards for the Betty R as well. I'm currently running a Gloworm X2 with NW emitters (with 2 wide-angle lenses) on my bar so it'll be nice to have a matching tint on my helmet-mounted R.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by indebt View Post
    That's one hell of a back up set lol. I just got confirmation from Dan at Gretna bikes that there are 4900K led boards for my Betty-R's as well as the 2016 Piko. A bit of a delay getting them right now as their swamped just dealing with the new 2016 line up and fulfilling orders. So still sitting in Germany.
    Yeah, I was reading about that on their website. What I fail to understand is "WHY?..." they decided not to include a "neutral LED" option for the Wilma-R! I might have been willing to buy a Wilma-R with neutral emitters. The Betty R is more than I need and a lot more money. Would of been nice to have a kick-ass lamp on the helmet with neutral LED and wireless remote.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-man-do View Post
    Yeah, I was reading about that on their website. What I fail to understand is "WHY?..." they decided not to include a "neutral LED" option for the Wilma-R! I might have been willing to buy a Wilma-R with neutral emitters. The Betty R is more than I need and a lot more money. Would of been nice to have a kick-ass lamp on the helmet with neutral LED and wireless remote.
    I couldn't agree more. The only reason I'm running Betty-R's is that at that time wireless remote wasn't available in the Wilma line either. I don't get it, Dan said 2016 Piko and Betty-R's have the option. Just a guess her but as the demand increases for neutral emitters one would hope Lupine would include the Wilma. I'd really be pressing for those 4900K boards if I was on the bike these days. I really would like to see the difference for myself.

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    I'm close to pulling the trigger on either the GW X2 or the Gemini Duo. I'm currently running two MJ-808 clones, one on helmet, one on the bar. Either the X2 or Duo is going to be a pleasant upgrade, but a couple of questions for some of you that are definitely WAY more knowledgable — and probably discerning — about lights than me:

    Is the NW really that much of a game changer? I've seen some comparisons and I can see the difference, but wondering how it translates to actual riding? Worth the $25 upgrade? (from action-led)

    Looks like the new Gemini Duo uses U4 bins — is this going even farther from neutral white than the U2 in the last version?

    The price difference b/t the two is ~$50 or $75 including the swap to the NW on the X2. It seems like the GW is a little more refined overall, but are the differences really that important?

    Thanks

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    NW is not a game changer IMHO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeynets View Post
    I'm close to pulling the trigger on either the GW X2 or the Gemini Duo. I'm currently running two MJ-808 clones, one on helmet, one on the bar. Either the X2 or Duo is going to be a pleasant upgrade, but a couple of questions for some of you that are definitely WAY more knowledgable — and probably discerning — about lights than me:

    Is the NW really that much of a game changer? I've seen some comparisons and I can see the difference, but wondering how it translates to actual riding? Worth the $25 upgrade? (from action-led)

    Looks like the new Gemini Duo uses U4 bins — is this going even farther from neutral white than the U2 in the last version?

    The price difference b/t the two is ~$50 or $75 including the swap to the NW on the X2. It seems like the GW is a little more refined overall, but are the differences really that important?

    Thanks
    Although I'm curious to see the difference on the trails myself, I cant say I have been disappointed with the 6000K emitters I'm using now. Hopefully I can find someone locally in the Tuesday night ride at some point who is using NW before committing to a $300 board change.

    It's a subjective subject and you will be paying double the price for the NW X-2 over the new Duo with wireless remote to find out. I think like me you have to try for yourself to make that call. It wasn't long ago many of us were riding with P-4 equipped lamp heads which were almost as blue tinted as HID. We managed!!

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    I'm really curious about the NW as well. I have not even seen side by side screen shots or anything. I was thinking my Gloworms were already fairly warm over what most of the local riders are running.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozzy43 View Post
    I'm really curious about the NW as well. I have not even seen side by side screen shots or anything. I was thinking my Gloworms were already fairly warm over what most of the local riders are running.
    Beamshots and videos will never reveal the advantage of NW emitters IMO. NW emitters don't make your light work better (1500 CW lumens measures the same as 1500 NW lumens), they allow your eyes to work better. CW emitters appear more powerful because they produce more glare. The harsher (not more powerful) CW light makes your pupils constrict more (for any given lumen amount) than NW would, reducing your vision performance. For the last few years I've run a Gemini Olympia as my bar light and had come to the conclusion that my vision was actually reduced at anything over 80% power on that light. I can run my BT21 or BT70 with NW emitters (which makes more measured lux) at full power with none of the reduced vision issues (mainly washing out trail irregularities) I notice on the Olympia at 100%. So looking at beamshots (and running a mix of NW and CW) eliminates the NW emitter advantage and again IMO not an accurate way of comparing the two emitter tints. I imagine NW emitters are like most things in that the degree of advantage depends on your eyes, riding environment, riding style and speed - I definitely think it's worthwhile (I also own an X2 & XS and will be having them changed to NW soon).
    Mole

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    I've complained about poor night vision for a while now and do find even around the house in winter months I need more light than my younger wife. But also on the trails,,,, I've got lots of output and it works for me, but based on how you describe how the eyes react to cool white vs NW it makes sense to me. If the light is still as bright in lux but distributed in a warmer tint yes maybe the pupils wont close up as much thus better perception on detail in the lighted area.

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    In general I also have diminished night vision. Additionally, I don't know if this factors in to emitter tint at all, but I am really adversely affected by super bright car headlights — which always seem to be of the cool white variety. Again, I don't know if it's simply the brightness and the color is just coincidental or there's a connection. Maybe some of you know. . .

    But yeah, the value of the new Gemini lights really seems to be a strong argument for them over the Gloworms — especially if the NW emitters aren't that big of a deal. I realize it's subjective though and for some people that'll sway them towards the Gloworms.

    I'm really torn but starting to lean towards the Duo.

  31. #31
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    I have two sets of the Gemini Duo and Olympia lights. My old ones are 1200 and 1800 lumens. Loved the lights enough that I bought another set to share with the family. I do like the remote idea. Looking forward to trying them out. As it is now they are fully charged and ready for action. I was never lacking for light on the old set so imagine the new ones will be equally as bright in the trail.

  32. #32
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    We'll have them in stock the middle of next week. I'm anxious to do some testing on them and how they have improved. Particularly in how they handle over heating. I'll post results here as soon as I have them. I'll be doing beam patterns and then output vs time with no air movement. I'll probably retest the old ones for comparison.
    Still a few of the older ones left at sale prices. (they've just been reduced even farther)
    Jim Harger
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    I did forget to ask about the thermal? That was one area Gemini was lacking in the past as when they stepped down, they really stepped down to the low setting. I prefer a more controlled gradual step down system like the GloWorm products. Please confirm when you have a chance if thermal has improved.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Action LED Lights View Post
    We'll have them in stock the middle of next week. I'm anxious to do some testing on them and how they have improved. Particularly in how they handle over heating. I'll post results here as soon as I have them. I'll be doing beam patterns and then output vs time with no air movement. I'll probably retest the old ones for comparison.
    Still a few of the older ones left at sale prices. (they've just been reduced even farther)
    I look forward to seeing how they test out. I noticed all the light-heads weigh a little more so that should help with the heat. If they still get hot here's the solution I'm currently using that makes my Gemini lights work fine in desert ride temps. (+100°).
    Mole

    2016 Gemini lights?-004.jpg

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirius9 View Post
    Would someone be so nice to post a link for this lights? TY
    Gemini Lights ? Action-LED-Lights
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    Hey Jim what is the story with the Titan light? I've been waiting for you to post it so I can order one.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by indebt View Post
    I did forget to ask about the thermal? That was one area Gemini was lacking in the past as when they stepped down, they really stepped down to the low setting. I prefer a more controlled gradual step down system like the GloWorm products. Please confirm when you have a chance if thermal has improved.
    The new Xera, Duo, Olympia and Xera Flashlight are in stock. That flashlight is a super little light. Same beam and output of the standard Xera and so small.
    I have finish testing beam patterns and thermal performance. I'll get the pattern test up tomorrow. Thermal is about the same as previous models. In still air they slowly drop for the first few minutes but then suddenly drop to 10%. When they cool off they switch back to 100% but then cycle up and down until you get some air moving over them. With the increased surface area this should be no problem if you have any speed at all. But it's winter here so a real world test will be hard until summer.
    Jim Harger
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  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozzy43 View Post
    Hey Jim what is the story with the Titan light? I've been waiting for you to post it so I can order one.
    Not yet available. I have some on order but don't have a firm ship date.
    Jim Harger
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    Quote Originally Posted by Action LED Lights View Post
    The new Xera, Duo, Olympia and Xera Flashlight are in stock. That flashlight is a super little light. Same beam and output of the standard Xera and so small.
    I have finish testing beam patterns and thermal performance. I'll get the pattern test up tomorrow. Thermal is about the same as previous models. In still air they slowly drop for the first few minutes but then suddenly drop to 10%. When they cool off they switch back to 100% but then cycle up and down until you get some air moving over them. With the increased surface area this should be no problem if you have any speed at all. But it's winter here so a real world test will be hard until summer.
    First off,,, thank you for testing and sharing your results. For those of us in cold winter area's where poor thermal design isn't as much of a concern do to the temperatures, it will be an issue in the southern states or any warm winter demographic with even higher outputs this year.

    Although Gemini has gotten very aggressive in pricing with more features, I'm a little disappointed their still behind the competition in thermal features. Even the MS products this year have gradual step down. Dropping down to 10% is a joke and would be a deal breaker for me if I lived in a warmer area. Hopefully this will be corrected next year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by indebt View Post
    First off,,, thank you for testing and sharing your results. For those of us in cold winter area's where poor thermal design isn't as much of a concern do to the temperatures, it will be an issue in the southern states or any warm winter demographic with even higher outputs this year.

    Although Gemini has gotten very aggressive in pricing with more features, I'm a little disappointed their still behind the competition in thermal features. Even the MS products this year have gradual step down. Dropping down to 10% is a joke and would be a deal breaker for me if I lived in a warmer area. Hopefully this will be corrected next year.
    I'm not trolling when I say this, just honestly asking. Is a 10% drop really that bad? I read somewhere in an mtbr light thread that 7% drop is pretty standard. Maybe that was info was from several years ago and not pertinent any more. Maybe 3% more than average or standard is a big deviation — again, I really don't know.

    Just looking for a little more clarity or context for this comment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeynets View Post
    I'm not trolling when I say this, just honestly asking. Is a 10% drop really that bad? I read somewhere in an mtbr light thread that 7% drop is pretty standard. Maybe that was info was from several years ago and not pertinent any more. Maybe 3% more than average or standard is a big deviation — again, I really don't know.

    Just looking for a little more clarity or context for this comment.
    No it's not bad at all if that was the case. It's a drop TO 10% output,,,,, not a 10% drop in output,,,,, pretty much unusable

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    Gotcha. That is significant. Now I'm curious to see if the 2016 lights have that issue as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeynets View Post
    Gotcha. That is significant. Now I'm curious to see if the 2016 lights have that issue as well.
    Jim at Action was saying the 2016's thermal is pretty much the same as the previous years model,, I would say it's more like about 20% but still to low. So room for improvement.

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    I live in the Bay Area so it's never very cold or hot, at least at night. I don't think the temps here are anything for me to be concerned about. I ride with someone who has an older Duo and he never has had a problem with it either. Still, seems like something that should be addressed.

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    Just ride faster.

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  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeynets View Post
    I live in the Bay Area so it's never very cold or hot, at least at night. I don't think the temps here are anything for me to be concerned about. I ride with someone who has an older Duo and he never has had a problem with it either. Still, seems like something that should be addressed.
    It's something that was never an issue for anyone that I've heard of unless they live in Arizona and were riding slow on a hot summer night. Now that the the lights have more surface area it should be even less of a problem.
    Jim Harger
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    Quote Originally Posted by Action LED Lights View Post
    It's something that was never an issue for anyone that I've heard of unless they live in Arizona and were riding slow on a hot summer night. Now that the the lights have more surface area it should be even less of a problem.
    The lights do have a touch more surface area so that will help but they also have a big jump in output as the 2016 Xera has shown. The old one was 697lument Vs 935, so very substantial and will produce even more heat.

    That been said as you mentioned, where I live I have had no issues with step down either as I don't climb on the high setting and most don't.

  48. #48
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    Beam testing

    Ok, I have the beam pattern test done for the new lights. I tested one of the older lights to compare it to last years test and apparently something has changed as my results came in lower. So I'll retest the older lights so we can have an accurate comparison and test the newest Gloworm lights too. In the future I'll have to come up with a way to calibrate my test setup so the results are consistent. I'll post these new test asap.

    2016 Gemini lights?-2016-gemini-series-beamtest.png
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    [QUOTE=Action LED Lights;12319741]Ok, I have the beam pattern test done for the new lights. I tested one of the older lights to compare it to last years test and apparently something has changed as my results came in lower. So I'll retest the older lights so we can have an accurate comparison and test the newest Gloworm lights too. In the future I'll have to come up with a way to calibrate my test setup so the results are consistent. I'll post these new test asap.

    Hi Jim,
    Looks like something has definitely corrupted the data for the new light too. Doubtful the Xera out powers the Duo & Olympia in throw (which it should) and beam width (which it definitely shouldn't) or that the Olympia is weaker everywhere than the other two lights. Looking forward to the retest!
    Mole

  50. #50
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    [QUOTE=MRMOLE;12319969]
    Quote Originally Posted by Action LED Lights View Post
    Ok, I have the beam pattern test done for the new lights. I tested one of the older lights to compare it to last years test and apparently something has changed as my results came in lower. So I'll retest the older lights so we can have an accurate comparison and test the newest Gloworm lights too. In the future I'll have to come up with a way to calibrate my test setup so the results are consistent. I'll post these new test asap.

    Hi Jim,
    Looks like something has definitely corrupted the data for the new light too. Doubtful the Xera out powers the Duo & Olympia in throw (which it should) and beam width (which it definitely shouldn't) or that the Olympia is weaker everywhere than the other two lights. Looking forward to the retest!
    Mole
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  51. #51
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    [QUOTE=Action LED Lights;12320074]
    Quote Originally Posted by MRMOLE View Post

    Look at the curve colors, not the position in the legend.
    Sorry, my mistake. My bad eyes got me on the colors but....... What happened to the Xera's throw #'s? Looking at your legend correctly the Olympia and Duo show some good gains (especially since you think your calibration is giving low #s) but the Xera's graph is far weaker than the previous model (not what I expected considering MTBR had measured significant lumen gains).
    Mole

  52. #52
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    [quote=mrmole;12320170]
    Quote Originally Posted by action led lights View Post

    sorry, my mistake. My bad eyes got me on the colors but....... What happened to the xera's throw #'s? Looking at your legend correctly the olympia and duo show some good gains (especially since you think your calibration is giving low #s) but the xera's graph is far weaker than the previous model (not what i expected considering mtbr had measured significant lumen gains).
    Mole
    The Xera now shares optics with the Duo. It's my experience that smaller optics have a harder time focusing the light into a spot. So it would seem the Xera has less throw even though it has more lumens. I hope to get the old one retested this weekend and will confirm that.
    Jim Harger
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    [QUOTE=Action LED Lights;12322635]
    Quote Originally Posted by mrmole View Post

    The Xera now shares optics with the Duo. It's my experience that smaller optics have a harder time focusing the light into a spot. So it would seem the Xera has less throw even though it has more lumens. I hope to get the old one retested this weekend and will confirm that.

    Will the beam pattern be the same for the Xera light and Xera flashlight? Does the flashlight use an optic as well?

  54. #54
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    [QUOTE=mikeynets;12322674]
    Quote Originally Posted by Action LED Lights View Post


    Will the beam pattern be the same for the Xera light and Xera flashlight? Does the flashlight use an optic as well?
    Yes, the Xera Flashlight uses the same optic and LED as the Xera
    Jim Harger
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  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Action LED Lights View Post
    ^This^
    Hit the trails with your bike and get freaky.

  56. #56
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    [QUOTE=Action LED Lights;12322635]
    Quote Originally Posted by mrmole View Post

    The Xera now shares optics with the Duo. It's my experience that smaller optics have a harder time focusing the light into a spot. So it would seem the Xera has less throw even though it has more lumens. I hope to get the old one retested this weekend and will confirm that.
    Ok, I retested the older Xera this afternoon. Both with the standard optic and with the included spot optic. Here are the resulting graphs.

    2016 Gemini lights?-2016-xera.jpg2016 Gemini lights?-2015-xera.jpg

    As expected, the new optic produces a much wider beam with the resulting lower peak intensity (throw)
    The two lines on the 2015 graph show what seems to be a common mistake in designing optics. The standard optic has a frosted front surface. On a microscopic scale, a frosted surface is made up of random surfaces at random angles. Some of those surfaces will deflect the light to the side as intended. But some of them will reflect a portion of the light back into the optic and out the side walls to be absorbed into the body of the light. As you can see the standard optic (red curve) only serves to reduce the amount of light coming out the front.

    Another thing to remember when comparing graph is that if you increase the beam angle from 10˚(±5˚) to 20˚the amount of area you are lighting is approximately 4 times as large. So if the light is evenly distributed the intensity is 1/4. So the wider portions of the graph represent a lot more lumens.
    Jim Harger
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  57. #57
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    Gemini lights have always been on my wish list for testing.along with gloworm but every year they ignore my advances like the pretty girl at a disco.


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  58. #58
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    Maybe if you try purchasing one they wont say NO!!!

  59. #59
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    Yeah but I'm not going to do that.


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  60. #60
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    Say what, they dont give free lights, darn, I hate them

  61. #61
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    For the price ive been debating on getting a duo head to add to my collection, till I look at my collection and the pile that doesn't get used (and the other pile that does)

  62. #62
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    Yay! 2016 Gemini lights?-imageuploadedbytapatalk1449597392.290475.jpg

  63. #63
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    Have you had a chance that to run it yet... any beam shots?

  64. #64
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    2016 Gemini lights?

    Just picked it up. I will not be able to run it in a couple of days. Plus, it's rainy and foggy outside so it will not give any clear answers.

  65. #65
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    Woah!
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  66. #66
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    Just received an Olympia setup for test/review, and I'm impressed with the fit/finish.
    GRAVELBIKE.COM - ride everything

  67. #67
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    Not sure if this is new but also took delivery of the 8-cell 10400mAh battery. Very slim looking 2016 Gemini lights?-imageuploadedbytapatalk1449601712.317518.jpg

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    It seems to be "bare" battery. Is there some outer shell/pouch/mounting? too?

  69. #69
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    There is 2016 Gemini lights?-imageuploadedbytapatalk1449602592.571348.jpg

  70. #70
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    OMFG, that light looks insane lol. Liking the use of a stick pack instead of bricks.

  71. #71
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    So a 2015 duo with 4 cell on sale for $150? or a 2016 duo with 2 cell for $150?
    Half the run time, which is prob. fine for me. If I am going out for 3 hours I will run it at 50%
    I plan on bar mounting so the remote for 2016 is not a huge deal. I run a minewt 350 on my helmet.
    What am I missing?
    Only boring people get bored.

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by tigris99 View Post
    OMFG, that light looks insane lol. Liking the use of a stick pack instead of bricks.
    From just pointing this one out of the porch it looks amazing. Great spread and depth. Cannot capture it on camera because of fog/rain but very very promising indeed.

  73. #73
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    2016 Gemini lights?

    Quote Originally Posted by jh_on_the_cape View Post
    So a 2015 duo with 4 cell on sale for $150? or a 2016 duo with 2 cell for $150?
    Half the run time, which is prob. fine for me. If I am going out for 3 hours I will run it at 50%
    I plan on bar mounting so the remote for 2016 is not a huge deal. I run a minewt 350 on my helmet.
    What am I missing?
    FWIW I have the 2016 duo with the remote. Very handy, especially if you do any kind of commuting.

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trond View Post
    There is
    Nice pack!

  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by jh_on_the_cape View Post
    So a 2015 duo with 4 cell on sale for $150? or a 2016 duo with 2 cell for $150?
    Half the run time, which is prob. fine for me. If I am going out for 3 hours I will run it at 50%
    I plan on bar mounting so the remote for 2016 is not a huge deal. I run a minewt 350 on my helmet.
    What am I missing?
    The 2016 Duo is using XM-L2 U-4 leds which will be brighter than the 2015's. 2015 Duo was measured at 1208 actual lumens where the new Duo will be close to 1500. If you want more runtime on the 2016 Duo Gemini or action only charge an extra $30 for a larger high end battery pack.

  76. #76
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    Just fyi, the bin change of emitters is less than 10% output increase. Unless they have to driver pushing more output to the emitters, its going to be 100-150 more lumens than the 2015 model when tested in a sphere.

    Most lights dont account for variance in emitter outputs or optics losses. So new version will probably come it at around 1350-1400 lumens.

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by tigris99 View Post
    Just fyi, the bin change of emitters is less than 10% output increase. Unless they have to driver pushing more output to the emitters, its going to be 100-150 more lumens than the 2015 model when tested in a sphere.

    Most lights dont account for variance in emitter outputs or optics losses. So new version will probably come it at around 1350-1400 lumens.
    Yes I agree! I'm basing my estimate on the improvement of this years Xera which was pretty much bang on Gemini's claim for the 2016 line up and a huge jump in output over last years version. Gemini this year claim ALL their line up should be very close to claimed so this leads me to believe there has been some tweaking to the drivers.

  78. #78
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    FYI, The Titan will be here in a week or two.
    Jim Harger
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  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Action LED Lights View Post
    FYI, The Titan will be here in a week or two.
    Just looked through the last 3-4 pages in this thread. Some very impressive stuff. Damn, can't tell you how much I wish some of these ( particularly the 2016 Olympia ) were available with "Neutral LED's". ( Santa, can you tell the elf's to get some neutral LED's in )

    An Olympia with neutral LED's would >

  80. #80
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    ^^^Has anyone just emailed Gemini directly regarding the NW emitter question and pointed out the apparently overwhelming support for these on the boards?
    Geologist by trade...bicycle mechanic (former) by the grace of God!

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  81. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by TiGeo View Post
    ^^^Has anyone just emailed Gemini directly regarding the NW emitter question and pointed out the apparently overwhelming support for these on the boards?
    Just did. We'll see what happens.
    Jim Harger
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  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Action LED Lights View Post
    Just did. We'll see what happens.
    Did as well!!

  83. #83
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    I have two Duo and Olympia. One set is this yrs and the others are from 2013. Both are great. The new ones are definitely brighter and I love the remote. I can operate both lights from it. Have Duo on my helmet and the Olympia on my bars. Great combo. I was happy with my first set. Even happier with the new ones.

  84. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by sdsyver View Post
    I have two Duo and Olympia. One set is this yrs and the others are from 2013. Both are great. The new ones are definitely brighter and I love the remote. I can operate both lights from it. Have Duo on my helmet and the Olympia on my bars. Great combo. I was happy with my first set. Even happier with the new ones.
    With you running both lamp heads off one remote,,,,, are they both responding quickly so as to not go out of sequence? With my Lupines, I find my helmet light responds a millisecond slower than the bar light at times putting them out of sequence.

  85. #85
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    That sounds like a design flaw with lupine, guessing they use stepless mode control instead of percentage of output based steps. Iirc Gemini doesn't use linear control, it uses steps, so even a delay wont cause them to fall out of sync as a push of the button simply goes to next step. That's the downfall of all the fancy tech being stuffed into bike lights, makes them far more of a headache than their worth.

  86. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by TiGeo View Post
    ^^^Has anyone just emailed Gemini directly regarding the NW emitter question and pointed out the apparently overwhelming support for these on the boards?
    So Chris from Gemini emailed me. The next batch of leds they order after their cool white leds are used up will be neutral white.

  87. #87
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    ^^^and everyone loses their minds....

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  88. #88
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    Love the 2016 Duo! Having the switch within thumb distance and the light on my helmet is just incredible. Getting great runtime with the 2 cell pack and I think the ease of the wireless remote helps that. It is effortless to manage your light output with climbing and descending on singletrack with the wireless remote. Very tempted to add am Olympia or Titan to the bars.

    Jim, will the Titan be sold as lighthead only?

  89. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by indebt View Post
    With you running both lamp heads off one remote,,,,, are they both responding quickly so as to not go out of sequence? With my Lupines, I find my helmet light responds a millisecond slower than the bar light at times putting them out of sequence.
    In, Which Lupines are you running? Looking at putting together a bar and helmet set but the out of sequence would drive me bulls__t.

    Anyone know when the Gemini neutral whites will be available?

  90. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by hamsey View Post
    In, Which Lupines are you running? Looking at putting together a bar and helmet set but the out of sequence would drive me bulls__t.

    Anyone know when the Gemini neutral whites will be available?
    I'm running the first version of Betty-R's (non Bluetooth).

    I spoke to Gemini and as soon as they have used up the XM-L2 U4's they have in stock they will be ordering Neutral leds from Cree on their very next order. Timeline is based on how quickly they sell the first batch.

  91. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by jn35646 View Post
    Getting great runtime with the 2 cell pack and I think the ease of the wireless remote helps that.
    2 hours? When they get the NW emitters I'm getting the Duo. Just trying to figure out if I get the 2 cell or 4.

  92. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeynets View Post
    2 hours? When they get the NW emitters I'm getting the Duo. Just trying to figure out if I get the 2 cell or 4.
    2 hours on high for the 2 cell pack would be a stretch for sure, probably 1.5 hours. The light lasts for 2 hour rides no problem since it is so easy to adjust the output based on need. I find that I use the switch on my bars much like a dropper post...as needed. It really sips battery power on low and that is all you need when climbing...which makes up 2/3 of the riding where I am. Only run on high for descents.

    Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

  93. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by jn35646 View Post
    2 hours on high for the 2 cell pack would be a stretch for sure, probably 1.5 hours. The light lasts for 2 hour rides no problem since it is so easy to adjust the output based on need. I find that I use the switch on my bars much like a dropper post...as needed. It really sips battery power on low and that is all you need when climbing...which makes up 2/3 of the riding where I am. Only run on high for descents.
    Yeah I guess I should've been clearer. 2 hour ride time while toggling between outputs is what I was looking for. Sounds like it's up to the task!

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeynets View Post
    2 hours? When they get the NW emitters I'm getting the Duo. Just trying to figure out if I get the 2 cell or 4.
    Four cell for sure. Why chance it for the weight of two extra cells? What happens near the end of the battery lifespan when it is only at 70-80% of its new capacity? What happens when it is cold out? Why have a razor-slim margin? For me the only debate is 4 vs 6 cell.

    I really don't see you making two hours on a two-cell, even with changing modes.

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    As for NW, I am not convinced it is so obvious that is the way to go. It may be, but it seems like six of one, half dozen of the other.

    You get less light in exchange for better color quality. It would be a no-brainer if you were going to use the light as a graphic arts professional. But you are illuminating rocks and trees. I don't see anyone complaining that their Porsche, Audi, or BMW does not have 5500 degree color temp or a certain CRI for their headlights.

  96. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by rsilvers View Post
    Four cell for sure. Why chance it for the weight of two extra cells? What happens near the end of the battery lifespan when it is only at 70-80% of its new capacity? What happens when it is cold out? Why have a razor-slim margin? For me the only debate is 4 vs 6 cell.

    I really don't see you making two hours on a two-cell, even with changing modes.
    I get plenty of runtime with the 2 cell and it is soooo light on my helmet. However, I've used 4 cell packs on my helmet and it only felt cumbersome the moment I put it on my head...heck, I even use a heavy helmet (Bell Super). 4 cell would be a great for peace of mind, totally agree. I just think that with having the remote next to my grips that I dim the light a lot when climbing and that makes the runtime really good. Was out for just about 2 hours the other night and for the first time got the indicator on the back of the Duo to turn amber (50%-25%). Oddly, that was only when running on high as it was still green on medium/low.

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    I would get two cell if I wanted the battery on my helmet. You could have a backup light on the bars.

    I plan to keep my helmet battery in my backpack.

  98. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by rsilvers View Post
    As for NW, I am not convinced it is so obvious that is the way to go. It may be, but it seems like six of one, half dozen of the other.



    You get less light in exchange for better color quality. It would be a no-brainer if you were going to use the light as a graphic arts professional. But you are illuminating rocks and trees. I don't see anyone complaining that their Porsche, Audi, or BMW does not have 5500 degree color temp or a certain CRI for their headlights.

    Actually was already pointed out the color temp of those cars is 5000k. And most arent after the high cri the few of us light geeks like to play with. All my lights are 3c or 3d tint, have a flashlight that's "high cri". Difference isn't enough the avg user would notice.

    And you don't get more light from cool white, have NO CLUE where you got that. The lumen output is the same. They APPEAR brighter due to glare, but lumen output is no different. Color temp DOES NOT determine output. Emitter bin does. Xm-l2 puts out the same lumens per bin regardless of color temp. But anything warmer than 4700-5000k color temp doesn't come in the higher bins yet. But the lumen output is only a few % lower, less than 5% per bin level. And margin of variation is that much. So it easily cancels out till you get to the really warm tints.

  99. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by tigris99 View Post
    Actually was already pointed out the color temp of those cars is 5000k.
    Audi?s LED headlights are key feature in Super Bowl ad - LEDs

    They are typically ~5500 while NW is typically ~4350.

    http://www.cree.com/~/media/Files/Cr.../XLampXML2.pdf

    CW is typically ~6650 - which is equal to being in the shade during the day.

    Quote Originally Posted by tigris99 View Post
    And you don't get more light from cool white, have NO CLUE where you got that. The lumen output is the same. Color temp DOES NOT determine output. Emitter bin does.
    The bins are just how they sort the yield after they make the product. So yes, if they can make the same bin and sell it for the same price, but CW goes to higher bins (two bins higher). This means that it is harder to make NW output as much light as CW, so color temp does effect the output.

  100. #100
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    So 2 bins higher, fit into a bike light, the difference is insanely small, and the higher bins are only seen in higher end lights where companies can afford to update bins constantly. On a dual emitter your talking max 100 lumens difference if they can get the newest and highest cool white bin. Unless you have 2 matching lights side by side with the different emitters and staring at both beams, you will NEVER notice a difference.

    And were talking NW as in NEUTRAL white, not natural/warm white. 2 different things. Natural is what we consider warm/high cri. Neutral is the middle ground. Higher output, 5k color temp roughly, slight yellow or reddish tint to the light.

    And again your missing half the details, trying to use "shade" and "overcast" as comparisons has little to do with led lighting for these purposes.

    Just like your comparing on road use against off road use, the opposite of each other. road lights your lighting up pavement and need some lateral illumination. Its a freaking smooth road. Nor offroad where every detail seen possible can be the difference between a crash or hitting the right line.

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