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  1. #51
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    Francios

    Can you tell me if the Cateye 1200 batteries can be removed and replaced on the fly. Are they just 2 separate 18650's or is it in a Cateye proprietary battery pack.

    Thx

  2. #52
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    Hopefully Francois will have a definitive answer for you mb323323. Looking on Cateye's website and checking out the manual, it appears that the battery's are in a proprietary format. The disturbing thing though is I couldn't find anywhere on their website where you could order a spare battery. Hopefully an oversight on my part.

  3. #53
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    Look at this page
    HL-EL1000RC | CATEYE

    They have a replacement battery listed. It actually looks like the whole back of the light (the black part) is the battery cartridge. My guess is that it is not meant to be on-the-fly replaceable though, not like the lezyne lights.

    Edit: It takes two or three allen bolts to remove the battery. I attached a picture from the manual. I wouldn't do this on the trail.

    2014 Mtbr Lights Shootout-cateye-1200-battery.jpg

  4. #54
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    Francois are you testing the lights stability (or lack thereof) while mounted and riding or just primarily the light output?

    Thanks

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by varider View Post
    Look at this page
    HL-EL1000RC | CATEYE

    They have a replacement battery listed. It actually looks like the whole back of the light (the black part) is the battery cartridge. My guess is that it is not meant to be on-the-fly replaceable though, not like the lezyne lights.

    Edit: It takes two or three allen bolts to remove the battery. I attached a picture from the manual. I wouldn't do this on the trail.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    ugh!! man i'm blind,,, thanx.

  6. #56
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    don't see why people are so excited over this Volt 1200 light. yeah it's self-contained so what.

    to me Gemini Olympia is the standout light here.

    from top to bottom: Seca / Olympia / Volt :





    the first light ( Seca ) is expensive out of the box, and a replacement / additional 6 cell L&M battery is $200, which IMO is downright unethical. The last one ( Volt ) is clearly inferior, but the middle one ( Olympia ) has a great price / performance balance IMO, and the ability to use MagicShine batteries IMO is a huge plus.

    the beam pattern of the Olympia looks incredible - a work of art ! they were able to get beam quality similar to the Seca from a much smaller and simpler light head and for much cheaper - outstanding !

    if you look carefully starting from the top beam shot and going down, the Seca lights up everything more or less evenly, going down to the 2nd beam shot the Olympia looks similar to the Seca but is just slightly narrower. going down again to the Volt suddenly it just turns to !@#% with mostly one giant artifact instead of a beam - too much light in the nearfield, almost none on the sides, and an ugly abrupt transition.

    yes i understand i am comparing a self-contained system to wired systems. the Volt isn't bad for a self-contained light, but the obsession with self-contained is IMO irrational.

    as for the Olympia - yes it is unfortunate that they lied about the Lumens, the cooling looks questionable for the output, and the mount is not what i would prefer but if we were looking at beam patterns alone this would be my top pick !

  7. #57
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    Yeah, got an email from Cateye and they said it can be replaced but you do have to buy their battery. They don't have the cost yet but said around 100. That takes me out and it's is probably too big for the helmet anyway.

    So far I still can't beat my cheap Ultrafire 502b w/ several Panasonic 3100 mah batteries. 15 for the light and about 20 for the batteries and charger and yes, I can replace on the trail no issues.

    Still waiting for Dinotte to come out w/ something awesome that is self contained and very small for the helmet.

    MB

  8. #58
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    Have you checked out the Cygolite Expillion 800. New product 800 lumens and an hour and a half on the highest setting. Self contained with interchangeable 18650's on the fly. Our MEC in Vancouver has them listed at $109.

  9. #59
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    I just bought a Nitefighter BT40 with a claimed 1600 max lumens for only $80, (and it is every bit as bright as a Lezyne MegaDrive, if not more so)...pretty good deal if you ask me!

    The Nitefighter BT40 is essentially the same thing as the MagicShine MJ-872.
    "An inconvenience is an adventure wrongly considered." G.K. Chesterton

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by mb323323 View Post
    Yeah, got an email from Cateye and they said it can be replaced but you do have to buy their battery. They don't have the cost yet but said around 100. That takes me out and it's is probably too big for the helmet anyway.

    So far I still can't beat my cheap Ultrafire 502b w/ several Panasonic 3100 mah batteries. 15 for the light and about 20 for the batteries and charger and yes, I can replace on the trail no issues.

    Still waiting for Dinotte to come out w/ something awesome that is self contained and very small for the helmet.

    MB
    Ouch! $100 for what is probably a two cell battery is way overpriced.

    The Lezyne mega/deca drive battery is much more reasonable at $40.
    LIR 2 Cell Rechargeable Battery (MEGA DRIVE / DECA DRIVE)

    The cost of the battery replacement is a huge factor in determining what light I would buy.

  11. #61
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    Re: 2014 Mtbr Lights Shootout

    Quote Originally Posted by Warshade View Post
    I just bought a Nitefighter BT40 with a claimed 1600 max lumens for only $80, (and it is every bit as bright as a Lezyne MegaDrive, if not more so)...pretty good deal if you ask me!

    The Nitefighter BT40 is essentially the same thing as the MagicShine MJ-872.
    "An inconvenience is an adventure wrongly considered." G.K. Chesterton

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by indebt View Post
    Have you checked out the Cygolite Expillion 800. New product 800 lumens and an hour and a half on the highest setting. Self contained with interchangeable 18650's on the fly. Our MEC in Vancouver has them listed at $109.

    Cygolite... It's very frustrating dealing with them since they don't want to send lights. They just do not want independent reviews of their lights.

    We might purchase them for the review but they don't like that either. Just strange.

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  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warshade View Post
    Yes that light is probably the most copied/sold one under different brands. It's a good light with a wide beam. We reviewed the original one.

    Magicshine MJ-872 ? 2013 Mtbr Lights Shootout | Mountain Bike Review

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  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by francois View Post
    Cygolite... It's very frustrating dealing with them since they don't want to send lights. They just do not want independent reviews of their lights.

    We might purchase them for the review but they don't like that either. Just strange.

    fc
    Yes it's to bad their so uncooperative as my experience with their products have been very good. My 2009 Triden-X Extra is still going strong with the new owner and with the original battery to boot.

  15. #65
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    I'm curious how the Magicshine 880 with new xm-l2 stacks up against similarly priced lights. Jim from action led produced a nice graph which showed a noticeable improvement in performance. Any chance you could review this light?

    XM-L2 Comes to Magicshine

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Serkaian View Post
    Have you compared the Mega Drive with the Deca Drive? Is the extra throw of the Mega Drive useful for road use or is the Deca Drive enough? Thanks.
    Deca Drive is enough and is better I think. $50 cheaper, longer run time and wider pattern with the 3 LEDs.

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  17. #67
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    It would be great if you did get one of the Expillion 800's and test. I'm curious as to output and real run time test.

    I would really like a bike light dedicated self contained helmet light. My Ultrafire is ok but even w/ 3100's it dims after 45 min or so.

    I imagine the Cygo would not dim but power down when the battery is drained which I'd prefer.

  18. #68
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    Went to the integrated sphere lab yesterday. Gloworms all measured up to claims, Bontrager Ion 700 measured in at 682 lumens. We got 4250 lumens now for the Lupine Betty as we had better cooling. Detailed charts to follow. Meanwhile, here's a really cool Wind Speed simulator for our extended run time tests.

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  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by francois View Post
    Deca Drive is enough and is better I think. $50 cheaper, longer run time and wider pattern with the 3 LEDs.

    fc
    Thank you. It would be interesting to see how Cygolite's Expilion 800 compares with the Deca Drive's 800 lumen rating and features. Keep up the great job providing such objective and comprehensive reviews.

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Serkaian View Post
    Thank you. It would be interesting to see how Cygolite's Expilion 800 compares with the Deca Drive's 800 lumen rating and features. Keep up the great job providing such objective and comprehensive reviews.
    In the past, Cygolites have been ok. Decent beam with good light level programming. But they measured about 10-15% lower than lumen claims on average in their Expilion line.

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  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by androgen View Post
    to me Gemini Olympia is the standout light here.


    the beam pattern of the Olympia looks incredible - a work of art ! they were able to get beam quality similar to the Seca from a much smaller and simpler light head and for much cheaper - outstanding !

    as for the Olympia - yes it is unfortunate that they lied about the Lumens, the cooling looks questionable for the output, and the mount is not what i would prefer but if we were looking at beam patterns alone this would be my top pick !
    I agree with you on this one. The Olympia lights up the entire tunnel with a very even pattern and still allows you to see directly in front. The Lupines are so intense up front you can barely read the 45 degree and 20' marks. Everyone has been throwing Gemini under the bus for the lumens claims, and they threw the baby under the bus with the bathwater.

  22. #72
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    Can you test new Magicshine Eagle 300 and 600 USB lights?
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  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by pabcor View Post
    Can you test new Magicshine Eagle 300 and 600 USB lights?
    I have the Magicshine Eagle 600 and will publish soon. It is awesome. About 610 lumens and the digital readout really works and it adds value. It displays run time or charge time in real-time based on the current light level.

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  24. #74
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    Good, thanks
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  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Serkaian View Post
    Have you compared the Mega Drive with the Deca Drive? Is the extra throw of the Mega Drive useful for road use or is the Deca Drive enough? Thanks.

    Take a look at this video after about 5 min, they show beams

    Link here
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  26. #76
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    Francois, are you getting the Exposure Equinox? That would be interesting to see its beam and how it stacks up with thermal protection etc. That is a ton of output at 2000 lumens off a single cell. It will probably be a must to purchase a support cell to go along with the equinox.

  27. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by francois View Post
    Cygolite... It's very frustrating dealing with them since they don't want to send lights. They just do not want independent reviews of their lights.

    We might purchase them for the review but they don't like that either. Just strange.
    Yes, quite strange and IMHO highly suspicious. They obviously don't want to disclose real parameters...

  28. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by cue003 View Post
    Francois, are you getting the Exposure Equinox? That would be interesting to see its beam and how it stacks up with thermal protection etc. That is a ton of output at 2000 lumens off a single cell. It will probably be a must to purchase a support cell to go along with the equinox.
    Yes, I'll follow up on this. The only gotcha is they do poorly on the claimed vs. actual lumen tests. They just always claim so high.

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  29. #79
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    Video on the 700 lumen lights.



    comments?
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    Thanx for the video review Francois. Before you said it in your video, I was thinking the Serfas True 750, and MS new light as my top two picks. Same reasons as you already mentioned. The pure output of the Serfas True 750 with it's interchangeable battery, plus the fact it looks like it would dissipate the heat well with it's size.

    And the MS as their disclosing true and honest lumen claims which is a 180 from just a couple of years ago. The display feature is a front runner as well. If I missed it my apology's,,, but i'm guessing the battery is none interchangeable?? If interchangeable, those readouts would only be accurate with a designated aMh of what MS put in stock say 3100aMh, or 3400aMh?

    Of coarse my opinion may change as real world use would show what your review cant and that is how the beam quality is on the trails despite the tunnel beam shots. Based on those i'd give the L&M 700 best beam for my taste.

  31. #81
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    Thanks for that video Francois. Good to see how the lights stack up against each other in that self contained 600-800 category. Lots of lights to chose from in the video and I know you mentioned best display and best price etc but......

    If YOU can have only 2 of the lights in your video...which two would you have? And they can be two of the same. Where would your hard earned dollars go? And would your decision/selection change if it was for mtbr vs road? I mean taking everything into play from:

    A) stability in mounting system for use on rough terrain
    B) light output/beam pattern
    C) heat sinking/cooling
    D) runtime at various output levels
    E) price

  32. #82
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    It would be cool if we could see the beam shots for the gloworm XS with three flood lenses as well as the OEM setup(whatever combo it is) I think most of us will be mounting it to the bars anyways and would like it as a flood beam.

  33. #83
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    1200 lumen flashlight show 'n tell
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  34. #84
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    Good videos. Thank you very much to include Magicshine Eagle 600.
    Last edited by pabcor; 11-12-2013 at 01:59 PM.
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  35. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by cue003 View Post
    Thanks for that video Francois. Good to see how the lights stack up against each other in that self contained 600-800 category. Lots of lights to chose from in the video and I know you mentioned best display and best price etc but......

    If YOU can have only 2 of the lights in your video...which two would you have? And they can be two of the same. Where would your hard earned dollars go? And would your decision/selection change if it was for mtbr vs road? I mean taking everything into play from:

    A) stability in mounting system for use on rough terrain
    B) light output/beam pattern
    C) heat sinking/cooling
    D) runtime at various output levels
    E) price
    I think my favorite is the Serfas 750. It measured brighter at 773. Good mounts, good cooling, charger included and spare optic included for $160.

    The other cool light is the Bontrager Ion 700. It's small and polished and very handy as a flashlight. And it's only $100.

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  36. #86
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    Francois, will you be posting updated lumen measurements of all of the lights using the new fan cooling system?

  37. #87
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    Nice set ups of all-in-one lights, the heavier weight of which brings up the issue of light mount solidity or the lack there of.

    I can see myself picking up a Lupine TL MiniMax which looks like an ideal throw-in-the-pack stop-and-go commuter light.

  38. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by stu06 View Post
    Francois, will you be posting updated lumen measurements of all of the lights using the new fan cooling system?
    No, just the Betty. I tested a few other lights and they are unaffected since it's only a 3 minute run. That fan system is really good for a full battery drain.

    The Betty had a couple other problems at lab #1. It was already warm at the start of the test and it had some light leakage since the port hole was too big. A few % of error on that light translates to hundreds of lumens since the numbers are so big.

    I do have a bunch of new data though and I'll need the graphs redone soon.

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  39. #89
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    On a good note, my backyard light studio may make a comeback. I tested some lights on it and it's still tells a good story.

    Here's the Cateye Volt 1200

    fc
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 2014 Mtbr Lights Shootout-pb120104.jpg  

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    Do you have the numbers on all three of the GloWorm products yet?? Or better yet ,,,the reviews??

  41. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by francois View Post
    I do have a bunch of new data though and I'll need the graphs redone soon.
    Post or send me the data and i'll update the graphs.

  42. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by indebt View Post
    Do you have the numbers on all three of the GloWorm products yet?? Or better yet ,,,the reviews??
    Not to sound pushy but this^

  43. #93
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    I can't wait for the new Gloworm XS review, but my best light to date is Serfas true 1500.

    The only problem is the weight of the head!!! I think the new Gloworm XS will be the light to get if it ever comes out.

  44. #94
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    Francois,

    I realize your shootout is mainly targeted at the big named brands, sold in local bike shops.

    In the Lights and Night Riding forum there are three very highly discussed inexpensive ($55 or less) Chinese import lights, available from online retailers. We all know their claimed output bares little resemblance to their actual output. and their batteries don't stack up to the claimed capacity. Another downside is the variability in quality that seems to depend on which seller the light is purchased from. Certainly their fit and finish and quality control don't stack up to the big boys.

    If you'll pardon the expression, where they would really shine is in the Lumens per Dollar chart. It would be fascinating to see the results from controlled standardized tests, and their tunnel beam shots compared to the others in the field.

    The three I'm referring to are the SolarStorm X2 (XM-L or XM-L2 version), the YINDING YD-2XU2, and the KD 2 x Cree XM-L2 U2. At $20 to $30 (light head only) and $30 to $55 for full kits with battery, they are game changers for entry level bike lights.

    It would be great to see your take on each, after giving them the once over. I'm sure there are member who would gladly loan them to you testing. Is there any chance of getting you to take a look at them?

  45. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian_C View Post
    Francois,

    I realize your shootout is mainly targeted at the big named brands, sold in local bike shops.

    In the Lights and Night Riding forum there are three very highly discussed inexpensive ($55 or less) Chinese import lights, available from online retailers. We all know their claimed output bares little resemblance to their actual output. and their batteries don't stack up to the claimed capacity. Another downside is the variability in quality that seems to depend on which seller the light is purchased from. Certainly their fit and finish and quality control don't stack up to the big boys.

    If you'll pardon the expression, where they would really shine is in the Lumens per Dollar chart. It would be fascinating to see the results from controlled standardized tests, and their tunnel beam shots compared to the others in the field.

    The three I'm referring to are the SolarStorm X2 (XM-L or XM-L2 version), the YINDING YD-2XU2, and the KD 2 x Cree XM-L2 U2. At $20 to $30 (light head only) and $30 to $55 for full kits with battery, they are game changers for entry level bike lights.

    It would be great to see your take on each, after giving them the once over. I'm sure there are member who would gladly loan them to you testing. Is there any chance of getting you to take a look at them?
    I have gone the way of 2 YINDING YD-2XU2s.

    Ordered from fasttech but now I want to add in the rear MJ-818 Bike Tail light - (Tail Light with Y-Cable)

    I am trying to find a case that will allow me to just put 4 x 18650 batts in it (have batts and charger at home) and use this to run my lights.

    Any ideas?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian_C View Post
    Francois,

    I realize your shootout is mainly targeted at the big named brands, sold in local bike shops.

    In the Lights and Night Riding forum there are three very highly discussed inexpensive ($55 or less) Chinese import lights, available from online retailers. We all know their claimed output bares little resemblance to their actual output. and their batteries don't stack up to the claimed capacity. Another downside is the variability in quality that seems to depend on which seller the light is purchased from. Certainly their fit and finish and quality control don't stack up to the big boys.

    If you'll pardon the expression, where they would really shine is in the Lumens per Dollar chart. It would be fascinating to see the results from controlled standardized tests, and their tunnel beam shots compared to the others in the field.

    The three I'm referring to are the SolarStorm X2 (XM-L or XM-L2 version), the YINDING YD-2XU2, and the KD 2 x Cree XM-L2 U2. At $20 to $30 (light head only) and $30 to $55 for full kits with battery, they are game changers for entry level bike lights.

    It would be great to see your take on each, after giving them the once over. I'm sure there are member who would gladly loan them to you testing. Is there any chance of getting you to take a look at them?
    You already answered your own question. Doing any kind of controlled testing would not accomplish much since the light output varies so much from light to light with those units. The results wouldn't be representative or reproducible. The purpose of these reviews is to be able to purchase a light that at least meets the performance that it showed in the formal testing. Given the claims and acutal performance of some of the budget lights & batteries, I doubt those manufactures even want a formal test performed.

    Additionally, that Yingding light is far from one of the most popular budget lights. Barely anyone even owns one. There are way more people who own budget 3x units or the like.

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    Quote Originally Posted by steelhmr View Post
    Doing any kind of controlled testing would not accomplish much since the light output varies so much from light to light with those units. The results wouldn't be representative or reproducible. The purpose of these reviews is to be able to purchase a light that at least meets the performance that it showed in the formal testing. Given the claims and acutal performance of some of the budget lights & batteries, I doubt those manufactures even want a formal test performed.

    Additionally, that Yingding light is far from one of the most popular budget lights. Barely anyone even owns one. There are way more people who own budget 3x units or the like.
    I've followed the discussions fairly closely, and I don't think I've seen people noting brightness differences between branded units (other than XM-L vs XM-L2). There are several unbranded SS look-a-likes with different drivers and seller upgraded units. But the stock branded units from a good supplier (like FastTech) seem to be consistent between samples. I suppose Kir could really answer that, as he has SS units from several different suppliers.

    With lights at this price point, I really don't care about the difference between the claimed output and the actual output. We know that depending on the seller, the amount of exaggeration can range from somewhat inflated to ridiculous. I'd be interested in seeing the output and beam shots as compared to the bigger name brands/higher priced units.

    Who cares about the manufacturer's involvement. Francois has already stated that Cygo-Lite (one of the bigger players) has been unwilling to supply test samples, but he may purchase some to include in the shootout.

    Admittedly the Yinding is new to the scene (I think it showed up around July). But it is extremely highly discussed, and picking up speed in the number of people acquiring it.

    Yes more people have the 3x units. But how many of them have the SAME 3x light? Every Ebay seller seems to have a different body style, and different drivers. There is no trusted source supplier on those, so repeat-ability might be impossible. Though something like the Sky Ray S6 3T6 with that solid walled, mid body, LED mounting plate would be an above average representative for the 3x. So heck - yes - throw one of them into the mix too. It would be great to see their ratings and beam shots compared to the name brands.

    My main point is that many of us have opted for the cheap Chinese lights. It would be nice to see how they really stack up to the field. A ball park of their actual output would suffice. If nothing else, the beam shot comparison would prove interesting.

    Francois has tested the Best in Class lights. His impression of the bottom end would be interesting. He was surprised by the $100 Bontrager. He might be amazed by the offerings in the <$55 class.

  49. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by steelhmr View Post
    Additionally, that Yingding light is far from one of the most popular budget lights. Barely anyone even owns one. There are way more people who own budget 3x units or the like.

    This is a subjective statement...do you have anything to back up "Barely anyone even owns one. There are way more people who own budget 3x units or the like."? Sounds like we need a good poll to see.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian_C View Post
    My main point is that many of us have opted for the cheap Chinese lights. It would be nice to see how they really stack up to the field. A ball park of their actual output would suffice. If nothing else, the beam shot comparison would prove interesting.

    Francois has tested the Best in Class lights. His impression of the bottom end would be interesting. He was surprised by the $100 Bontrager. He might be amazed by the offerings in the <$55 class.
    Agree 100%.
    Geologist by trade...bicycle mechanic (former) by the grace of God!

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