Page 9 of 12 FirstFirst ... 56789101112 LastLast
Results 401 to 450 of 570
  1. #401
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    149
    Quote Originally Posted by NiteBiker View Post
    Hey Francois,

    The Light & Motion Urban 500 looks really good. ... I don't see the trail beamshot for this light. Did you forget to upload it?
    Also I didn't see a trail shot for the Jet A51?
    thanks!

  2. #402
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    75
    The Magic Shine MJ-808 was included in last years shoot out. However, hasn't its LED been upgraded since..the new version being the 808-XM-L? If so, is the new version going to be in the shootout? It's probably one of the more common lights out there. Also curious to see how much improved it is over the old version.

    thanks

    Rix

  3. #403
    mtbr member
    Reputation: mattthemuppet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    2,342
    one comment about the Exposure light reviews; if two or more products are so similar that you can copy and paste text from one to the other, just put them in the same review. I appreciate that this is free content and all, but opening up a new review only to see that most of it is the same as one I've already read is a bit disappointing.

    I also feel that the reviews feel a little flat, more like a manufacturer's spec sheet with a few extra bits of info (Lux, lumens, beamshots) to pad it out. Much as if I were to review a set of brakes on a demo bike I rode around the block. It's useful information, no doubt, I just don't feel as it they're much of a review. I guess that's a function of having to go through so many models though.

    Perhaps when you've found your 5 or 6 favourites, use them (or have friends use them) for a couple of months and then do in depth reviews. How easy they are to live with, useable run times, what power levels work best, what their beam pattern is really like (I've taken enough beam shots to know that what you see in a static image doesn't necessarily translate to how it works on the trail), stuff like that. That would be really useful information, akin to the review boards but from someone who handles enough different lights to make meaningful comparisons.

  4. #404
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    5
    Quote Originally Posted by pethelman View Post
    Personally I think it's going to depend on what you're looking for in a headlamp.

    In terms of producing a good thrower, the 20mm triple spot optics coupled with the XP-G are sort of in that middle ground territory.

    If the "thermal protection circuit" is doing its job on this one, I have a feeling it will be quite busy cutting back, unless you're really moving.
    Hi Pethelman,

    great to see some discussion about our new PMini on this forum. I've chopped a fair bit out the quote above to shorten but will answer many of the points you raise.

    This light is designed to be lightweight on the helmet, with good controls so that a long ride can be squeezed from a small battery by easy use of high and low beam as required. For riders that are tired, cranky, or just on the rivet, lightweight in the helmet area is always appreciated.

    When we were doing pre-market test of the beam, we found that many were happy with the narrow frosted optic that gave a nice smooth beam. But some helmet mount users wanted narrower. We gave them the narrowest offering from Carclo, which is the narrowest on the market that would fit the form we wanted. Those wanting narrow were happy and this is the one we use in production now. If you shine on a wall, the beam is not so nice and round but is a diamond shape. This does not do any harm on the trail. Will soon see what Francis says about the measured lumen output.

    Yes, all the power electronics, remote receiver etc are integrated within the battery. There is absolutely no way all this could be fitted inside that tiny head unit. Also putting in the battery allows use of more generous power components in there for better reliability and efficiency. The only thing inside the alloy head unit is the LEDs, and a temp sensor.
    On the bench top, the thermal protection circuit will cut back quickly and settles at about 4W within about a minute or so. But when riding along, a speed of about 15kph (10mph) gives enough cooling to hold full power. Most people wont need high beam at speeds less than 30-40kph. At this speed, the LEDs are cool enough to give good lighting efficacy.

    This product is indeed the result of years of development and testing, but it's not where most people think. The thermals, power circuitry, battery management etc is all important obviously but there are real challenges in the wireless remote too. The wireless remote is the cornerstone of the product really. A head unit that size is too small to have a switch on it. There are plenty of brands out there with the switch on the battery but when helmet mounted, it is hard to get good runtime out of just one beam setting. That's where the remote helps so much. I don't really know why there aren't more remote controlled systems out there. Other than to say that wireless is great if it works well but absolutely terrible if it is not reliable. Also for handlebar real estate, it's got to be small. It certainly isn't easy making a small wireless that is reliable across wide temperature differences (handlebars are cold, bike lights are warm). To make it small and reliable we needed to design from scratch including our own custom protocol for encoding. No off-the-shelf RF modules in this one!

    Please do get back with any more comments or queries. I don't visit the forum everyday but will be back to this thread again before the end.

    Cheers,
    David

  5. #405
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    393
    Quote Originally Posted by NiteBiker View Post
    Hey Francois,

    The Light & Motion Urban 500 looks really good. How would you characterize the beam? Is it more of a spot? How is the throw? I don't see the trail beamshot for this light. Did you forget to upload it?

    Thanks.
    Sorry to chime in, but Francois seems to have taken a day off :-)
    I have the Urban 300, and I can say the following about the beam:
    - it is bright. It is trailworthy in itself, and that's a real compliment from me (as I usually ride a Lupine Betty / Exposure Diablo combo on the trails...)
    - the beam is defined by a boom reflector: small bright spot, then a larger halo around it. Pretty similar to the (original) Magicshines, probably equal to one of the lower settings on the P7 lights. For the 500, it will match the Magicshine brightness.
    - sadly, it also means that for commuting, the beam is not so good (as the Philips for example), because it will blind oncoming drivers if pointed parallel to the ground. I would say this is more of an MTB light than a commuter light

    I have found one weakness, that I cannot understand: the light doesn't turn on while on the charger (USB). Which means that there is no way to use an external battery pack like the Exposures, all you have is the built-in charge of about 2 hours (probably less with the 500).

    Other than that, the quality is great, USB charging, built-in LiIon (no need to mess with AAs), no cables, mount is alright (rubber strap - still having a bit of a difficulty unmounting it), can be pointed left-right easily, maybe even too easily.

    It is quite an achievement IMHO that today you can buy a light in the $100-$150 category that is not China-made and is as bright as the L&M Urban, and as user friendly. Overall I'm very happy with it.

    PS: after reading the comments on the shootout page, I must add that I do not find the side visibility lights distracting at all, not even on the trail.
    Last edited by radirpok; 10-25-2011 at 12:11 AM.

  6. #406
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    14
    I have the Philips light on my road bike's handle bar - a fantastic light for general road biking, but on high speed descents on twisties, I feel the need to supplement with a helmet light to look at the corners. This supplemental light should have a tight spot with decent throw. Currently I am using a Sigma PowerLED EVO 900 on the lid. It works well but that is a bit heavy and cumbersome due to the external battery pack. I'd like a small, light, self-contained powerful spot light and it seems that the Urban 500 sounds perfect. And it is lighter and cheaper than the Lupike Piko. Runtime is not an issue because I need it for short durations on the descents. There is hardly any traffic to blind on these descents and if I do encounter oncoming traffic, I just turn my head to the right to avoid blinding them.

    Your feedback is very valuable. I will order the Urban 500 shortly!

    BTW 1, the Philips beam is absolutely fantastic for high speed road riding. The beam so uniform with a good width and long throw. I felt so relaxed and confident on my first high speed night road descent yesterday with the Philips (and the Sigma on the lid for the corners).

    BTW 2, the Philips has the same issue. The light turns off as soon as you connect a USB charger, so it is not possible to use an external pack.

    Quote Originally Posted by radirpok View Post
    Sorry to chime in, but Francois seems to have taken a day off :-)
    I have the Urban 300, and I can say the following about the beam:
    - it is bright. It is trailworthy in itself, and that's a real compliment from me (as I usually ride a Lupine Betty / Exposure Diablo combo on the trails...)
    - the beam is defined by a boom reflector: small bright spot, then a larger halo around it. Pretty similar to the (original) Magicshines, probably equal to one of the lower settings on the P7 lights. For the 500, it will match the Magicshine brightness.
    - sadly, it also means that for commuting, the beam is not so good (as the Philips for example), because it will blind oncoming drivers if pointed parallel to the ground. I would say this is more of an MTB light than a commuter light

    I have found one weakness, that I cannot understand: the light doesn't turn on while on the charger (USB). Which means that there is no way to use an external battery pack like the Exposures, all you have is the built-in charge of about 2 hours (probably less with the 500).

    Other than that, the quality is great, USB charging, built-in LiIon (no need to mess with AAs), no cables, mount is alright (rubber strap - still having a bit of a difficulty unmounting it), can be pointed left-right easily, maybe even too easily.

    It is quite an achievement IMHO that today you can buy a light in the $100-$150 category that is not China-made and is as bright as the L&M Urban, and as user friendly. Overall I'm very happy with it.

  7. #407
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    393
    Quote Originally Posted by NiteBiker View Post
    I'd like a small, light, self-contained powerful spot light and it seems that the Urban 500 sounds perfect. And it is lighter and cheaper than the Lupike Piko. Runtime is not an issue because I need it for short durations on the descents. There is hardly any traffic to blind on these descents and if I do encounter oncoming traffic, I just turn my head to the right to avoid blinding them.
    Just FYI, the Urban comes with a helmet mount in the box - nice addition. But even if it did not, you could use any of the rubber/ring-type lights' mount (Lupine, Magicshine...). It is a little bit heavier than the Exposure flash lights (Joystick and Diablo), but still very much acceptable and not noticeably heavy.

    I have to add though that the Piko is brighter, has probably more throw, and a better beam pattern (large spot and no halo), but as you said, it is also more expensive and I'm sure you'll be happy with the L&M too.

  8. #408
    mtbr member
    Reputation: MRMOLE's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    1,109
    I just picked up an urban 500 for my brother yesterday for his birthday and took it out for a short ride last night. For compairson it's brighter than my old 808 MS but not a bright as my 808E and has a slightly broader beam than either. The one problem I noticed is that is does get hot and kick down to the lowest setting. The temp. was still above 80 when I was out and it took about 3.5 miles before it hapened (at a stop light). I ran it @ the med. setting (more appropriate commuter setting since it doubles the run time to 3 hrs.) for another 6 miles and it ran fine.

  9. #409
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    98
    Quote Originally Posted by @dam View Post
    rccardude: You'd have to adjust that for the mass of the housing. A heavier housing will take longer to heat up.

    A cool casing could just indicate there is plenty of surface area carrying the heat away.
    The lights should have a fairly similar surface area and heatsink mass in a given category. It wouldn't be 100% negligible, but it would give you an idea. Obviously if you're using a Chevy 350 engine block as the heatsink for a 200 lumen light, you're never going to see much temperature increase. On the other hand, if all the casings are fairly close in mass (Volume of heatsink material), then one staying cold and one getting hot is a pretty good sign that the cold one is either dissipating heat really well or not actually getting heat transferred to it from the inside.

    Also, a cool casing could indicate good heat dissipation if there's good convective flow over the heat sink area. But if you're in a stagnant air, all you'll get is natural convection which is proportional to temperature difference. You should still be able to feel how rapidly the casing is increasing in temperature immediately after it's turned on. It will eventually reach steady-state equilibrium at a certain temperature and flow rate, but not right away.

    You should still be able to get a good idea of the internal heat transfer rate based on how quickly the casing starts to increase in temperature.

    -Eric

  10. #410
    fc
    fc is online now
    mtbr founder Administrator
    Reputation: fc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 1996
    Posts
    25,479
    Quote Originally Posted by radirpok View Post
    Sorry to chime in, but Francois seems to have taken a day off :-)....
    Correct. I was at Infineon Raceway yesterday testing Toyotas, then Annadel testing bikes then Russian River Brewing in Santa Rosa sampling beers. It was a day for the ages.

    Radipork's comments are absolutely spot on about the Urban 500. It is a a big beam like the Niterider 600 with a big center a nice halo.

    The fundamental problem with Urban 500 is heat. It just doesn't have enough heatsinking for its level of brightness. On medium, it's fine but high mode is only reliable in cold nights or fast descents.

    fc

  11. #411
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    33
    Quote Originally Posted by rixsurfer View Post
    The Magic Shine MJ-808 was included in last years shoot out. However, hasn't its LED been upgraded since..the new version being the 808-XM-L? If so, is the new version going to be in the shootout? It's probably one of the more common lights out there. Also curious to see how much improved it is over the old version.

    thanks

    Rix
    It has to be on the shootout the 808E XML.

  12. #412
    mtbr member
    Reputation: pethelman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    302
    Quote Originally Posted by dbastians View Post
    When we were doing pre-market test of the beam, we found that many were happy with the narrow frosted optic that gave a nice smooth beam. But some helmet mount users wanted narrower. We gave them the narrowest offering from Carclo, which is the narrowest on the market that would fit the form we wanted. Those wanting narrow were happy and this is the one we use in production now. If you shine on a wall, the beam is not so nice and round but is a diamond shape. This does not do any harm on the trail. Will soon see what Francis says about the measured lumen output.
    David
    Maybe from a few inches away, you can see the triangular arrangement of the optics, but generally from any distance, even a few feet, my experience is that the triple-optic Carclo SPOT lens produces a very round spot. The big difference comes when you compare the XP-E and XP-G. Because of the increased surface area of the XP-G die, the spot lens throws a slightly wider and shorter distance beam compared to the same spot lens with the XP-E. Unfortunately, in the spot-lens-only arrangement, there is also a dark ring immediately surrounding the spot, although not a major detractor. Now if we can just get Carclo to frost one of those 10mm optics, that'd be a killer combo. Did you mention if the light can still be controlled if the remote happens to go missing?

    First image is the XP-E triple with the Spot lens
    Second image is XP-G triple with the Spot lens
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 2012 Mtbr Lights Shootout.-xpe_triple_carclo_spot.jpg  

    2012 Mtbr Lights Shootout.-xpg_triple_carclo_spot.jpg  


  13. #413
    mtbr member
    Reputation: GTR2ebike's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    1,872
    Francois how long until you release a video featuring the new Lupine Betty? I think all the high end lights have videos posted on MTBR's youtube, except the Betty.

  14. #414
    fc
    fc is online now
    mtbr founder Administrator
    Reputation: fc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 1996
    Posts
    25,479
    first production Lezynes in the world!!!!

    fc
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  15. #415
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    5
    Quote Originally Posted by pethelman View Post
    Maybe from a few inches away, you can see the triangular arrangement of the optics, but generally from any distance, even a few feet, my experience is that the triple-optic Carclo SPOT lens produces a very round spot.
    Hi Pethelman,

    well the die in XPG (XPE to a slightly lesser extent) is always going to be a big square thing relative to the tiny lens in the 20mm triple optic and the narrowest versions are always going to project a square. A common method to blend these squares is to offset the orientation of each die 120deg on the PCB layout. Then you may get something approximating a round spot. You can also mess with the die position relative to the centre of the lens.
    In our case, we have "embraced the square" and have each die exactly in the centre of the lens and not offset the rotations. Our beam output is definitely square. This is the case with both XPE and XPG. We use the XPG for this model because on the higher power levels, it is more effective. Anyway, we get this diamond shaped beam which looks a bit silly on a wall, but seems more intense on the trail. We tired some other brands of 20mm triple that did produce more roundness, but the intensity was less.
    Now we've done it this way because this light is going to see two popular uses: Helmet mounted for MTB and bar mounted on carbon road bikes. Both users mostly prefer a beam with a good bit of intensity. I still wouldn't call this diamond beam from the carclo triple a really tight spot, but we get feedback from very fast/elite roadies and MTBers that it is good.

    The photo below sort of shows the diamond but I must say that with the eye, the effect is stronger, I think this little point-and-shoot camera can't show the edges of the diamond as well.

    Regards the switch and remote. The battery has a switch on it so you can still use it if you lose the remote. Francis posted a photo a few days back; the green thing on the battery decal is embossed and marks the switch position.

    Cheers,
    David.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 2012 Mtbr Lights Shootout.-p9250299.jpg  


  16. #416
    mtbr member
    Reputation: pethelman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    302
    Quote Originally Posted by dbastians View Post
    In our case, we have "embraced the square" and have each die exactly in the centre of the lens and not offset the rotations.

    Regards the switch and remote. The battery has a switch on it so you can still use it if you lose the remote. Francis posted a photo a few days back; the green thing on the battery decal is embossed and marks the switch position.
    Very cool. Thanks for clearing that up David. I assume you're doing your own PCB design and re-flow work? I can definitely appreciate the work you've put in to create this little light.
    Last edited by pethelman; 10-25-2011 at 09:27 PM.

  17. #417
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    5
    Quote Originally Posted by pethelman View Post
    Very cool. Thanks for clearing that up David. I assume you're doing you own PCB design and re-flow work? I can definitely appreciate the work you've put in to create this little light.
    Hey thanks for the interest and questions.
    We do all our own electronic design with the hardware and firmware, prototypes, testing, repairs, etc all done in house. We use a industrial designer for the metalwork and plastics design. PCB assembly and the plastic/rubber work is done by other companies here in Adelaide, South Australia. We don't make anything in China any more.
    Cheers,
    David

  18. #418
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    58
    Quote Originally Posted by francois View Post
    first production Lezynes in the world!!!!

    fc
    Excellent! Exactly what I've been waiting for after a long and informative conversation with Mike at Lezyne. The folks there are simply wonderful.

  19. #419
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    58
    The link at the top of the page to the shoot out isn't working. It gives a 'page not found' error.

  20. #420
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    1,461
    Francios, two of the new lights you have measured, the Xera at 71lux, and a very good showing with the TridenX at 81lux. These are incredible results for both lights and was wondering when you may have the video's up?? Clearly CygoLite is under rating their lumen claims on their TridenX by quite a bit as it has the same lux measurment as the older 1200 lumen TrailLed Darkstar,and several other newer lights with higher lumen claims.

  21. #421
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    149
    Quote Originally Posted by indebt View Post
    Francios, two of the new lights you have measured, the Xera at 71lux, and a very good showing with the TridenX at 81lux. These are incredible results for both lights and was wondering when you may have the video's up?? Clearly CygoLite is under rating their lumen claims on their TridenX by quite a bit as it has the same lux measurment as the older 1200 lumen TrailLed Darkstar,and several other newer lights with higher lumen claims.
    I wish I could find where the Xera result was posted. I'm finding it quite difficult to track the latest in the light shootout. I don't see the latest lux numbers on the beam meter results page: Bike Lights Shootout Light Meter Measurements | Mountain Bike Review nor on the main page, which seems to read like a blog (latest articles on top): Lights Shootout | Mountain Bike Review

    Also there are beam shots that seem missing, again maybe they're not posted on the beam shot page (Jet, L&M Urban 500, others?).

    I know we're tracking a moving target here and it's not all polished, but some folks are finding the info and I'd like to be among them

    Thanks Francois!

  22. #422
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    1,461
    icycle, click on Mtbr lights Shootout at the top of the page. It will say, page not found,scroll down and look on the right side of the page until you see 2012 Light Shootout,click on it, scroll down the page until you see, ( NEXT PAGE) click on that. You will find the lights mentioned down the page along with a couple others from Full Beam etc. Hope that helps.Cheers!!!

  23. #423
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    149
    Quote Originally Posted by indebt View Post
    icycle, click on Mtbr lights Shootout at the top of the page. It will say, page not found,scroll down and look on the right side of the page until you see 2012 Light Shootout,click on it, scroll down the page until you see, ( NEXT PAGE) click on that. You will find the lights mentioned down the page along with a couple others from Full Beam etc. Hope that helps.Cheers!!!
    Thanks, found it. Direct link here: 2012 Bike Lights Shootout | Mountain Bike Review | Page 2

  24. #424
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    12
    Francois - Thank you for all you do! And thanks to everyone that has given Francois good positive feedback.

    One question and one comment.

    Question - Why no Ay-Ups? I apologize if you've already answered this question - I couldn't find it in any of the post.

    Comment - This particular thread has rekindled my hope for society. It's nice to see a thread being used to build something in a positive manner as oppose to almost every other thread out there.

  25. #425
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    145
    Possible correction? On this page you have the Cygolite Expilion 350
    listed as:

    2012 Bike Lights Shootout | Mountain Bike Review | Page 2
    Price: $250.00
    Claimed Lumens: 480
    Measured output: 31 Mtbr Lux
    Installed Weight: 161.5 grams
    Run Time: n/a hour

    This looks like it might be a mixup of some sort, as I believe the claimed lumens are 350 and the MSRP is around $100.

    Edit: The price, claimed lumens, and weight look like they might be for the Cygo‑Lite MityCross 480.
    Last edited by BowHopper; 10-27-2011 at 09:12 PM.

  26. #426
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    6
    hmmm

  27. #427
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    107
    In considering whether the easy to execute Lux measurement that François conducts are a good predictor of actual Lumen output as measured in an integrating sphere... I made a simple scatter plot of Lux vs. Lumens for the lights that have both values published to date.

    The relationship is highly correlated within a certain percent error... and it turns out that Lux times 9.7 is a good predictor of Lumens.

    To make the math easier, even Lux times 10 is a fairly good predictor (generally less than 10% error).


  28. #428
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    44
    Quote Originally Posted by abacojeff View Post
    In considering whether the easy to execute Lux measurement that François conducts are a good predictor of actual Lumen output as measured in an integrating sphere... I made a simple scatter plot of Lux vs. Lumens for the lights that have both values published to date.

    The relationship is highly correlated within a certain percent error... and it turns out that Lux times 9.7 is a good predictor of Lumens.

    To make the math easier, even Lux times 10 is a fairly good predictor (generally less than 10% error).

    Are the lights listed the only ones you did the analysis on? If so I'd like to see if the multiplication factor holds for a larger set. I think that the relation you found has to do with the sphere. If the measuring sphere was larger by a factor of ten, I wouldn't be surprised if there was a smaller correlation by just about the same factor.
    If anyone has or knows of a 15.5" blue 2009 Gary Fisher Mamba for sale, please let me know.

  29. #429
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    107
    Quote Originally Posted by PiranhaFisher View Post
    Are the lights listed the only ones you did the analysis on? If so I'd like to see if the multiplication factor holds for a larger set. I think that the relation you found has to do with the sphere. If the measuring sphere was larger by a factor of ten, I wouldn't be surprised if there was a smaller correlation by just about the same factor.
    Francois hasn't published all the Lumen measurements from his trip to the integrating sphere at Lezyne yet... when he does publish more data - we will be able to see how well the estimate holds up for other lights.

    I wouldn't be surprised if higher powered lights have a different profile and there is also the possibility of reflector type, flood vs spot, affecting the results...

    However, for a rough 'rule of thumb' it would be great if the ratio between Francois' Lux readings continue to correlate reasonably well to Lumens.

    This will allow estimation for lights from previous years that aren't being tested in the integrating sphere this year, old designs, etc... and estimation from certain models of lights from this year that didn't fit in the integrating sphere.

  30. #430
    mtbr member
    Reputation: pethelman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    302
    Quote Originally Posted by abacojeff View Post
    Francois hasn't published all the Lumen measurements from his trip to the integrating sphere at Lezyne yet... when he does publish more data - we will be able to see how well the estimate holds up for other lights.

    I wouldn't be surprised if higher powered lights have a different profile and there is also the possibility of reflector type, flood vs spot, affecting the results...

    However, for a rough 'rule of thumb' it would be great if the ratio between Francois' Lux readings continue to correlate reasonably well to Lumens.

    This will allow estimation for lights from previous years that aren't being tested in the integrating sphere this year, old designs, etc... and estimation from certain models of lights from this year that didn't fit in the integrating sphere.
    Do keep in mind that he mentioned the non-ideal conditions behind the lights that could not be fully inserted into the 2" diameter of the sphere. This alone will completely skew the data from any kind of correlation with the lux test.

  31. #431
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    14
    FC - I just wanted to thank you for helping me narrow down my choice of lights. I'm sure it takes a lot of your time to put these reviews together.

  32. #432
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    1,461
    Hey Francois, just noticed on the lux measurement tables you have the info on the TridenX as having 1600 lumens and 101 lux. I believe it was supposed to 750 lumens and 81 lux. Cheers!!! Looks like it is mixed up with the 350 as well.

  33. #433
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    23

    commuter Flashlight review comparisons.

    As a commuter looking for a under $200 flashlight bike light I just wanted to point out some observations from the reviews and other information I have found.

    NOTE: I do not own any of these lights, but am looking to purchase one of them.

    The contenders:

    Light and Motion Urban 500:

    Pros:
    1) MTBR says best commuting light
    2) Only light with side lighting
    3) Looks like the best beam patterns for MY commuting.
    4) One of the leading companies producing bike lights.

    Cons:
    1) Poor thermal regulation, the thing gets really hot. (So says Francois)
    2) Poor customer reviews
    Amazon.com: ColoradoSBDR's review of Light and Motion Urban 500 Commuter Headlamp
    3) Not many user reviews yet.
    4) Does not use standard battery. Can not bring spare battery with me for a ride.


    Niterider Minewt 600 cordless

    Pros
    1) Doesnt get as hot as Urban 500
    2) Beam spread comparable to Urban 500
    3) One of the leading companies producing bike lights.
    4) Plenty of user reviews, most very positive.

    Cons
    1) Read a couple user reviews that say USB cover doesn't stay on very well. This is the same chassis as previous model which also had the same problem.
    2) Bulkier than the other lights in this category
    3) A little heavy for a helmet mount
    4) Battery not user replaceable / cant bring spare battery with me for ride.
    5) no side lighting


    Lezyne Super drive 450

    Pros
    1) Cheapest out of all the lights
    2) User replaceable battery.
    3) Non proprietary battery.
    4) Beam pattern seems comparable to Urban 500 and Niterider minewt 600
    5) All aluminium construction (better heat sink?)


    Cons
    1) No user reviews thus far (well one user review)
    2) Company new to lighting business
    3) Doesnt come with helmet mount
    4) No side lighting




    Serfas True 500

    Pro:
    1) Cheaper than the Urban 500 and Niterider Minewt 600
    2) Replaceable battery

    Con:
    1) no side lighting
    2) Not as bright as the Urban 500 and Niterider Minewt 600


    Cygolite expillion 400

    Con: did not give to MTBR to do a review about.


    I'm interested to see if people agree with my observations from the reviews.

  34. #434
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    2,169
    Quote Originally Posted by blueyin View Post

    Niterider Minewt 600 cordless

    Pros
    1) Doesnt get as hot as Urban 500
    2) Beam spread comparable to Urban 500
    3) One of the leading companies producing bike lights.
    4) Plenty of user reviews, most very positive.

    Cons
    1) Read a couple user reviews that say USB cover doesn't stay on very well. This is the same chassis as previous model which also had the same problem.
    2) Bulkier than the other lights in this category
    3) A little heavy for a helmet mount
    4) Battery not user replaceable / cant bring spare battery with me for ride. *deal breaker IMO*5)
    no side lighting
    6) according to reviews clamp doesn't hold well for off road use

    Lezyne Super drive 450

    Pros
    1) Cheapest out of all the lights
    2) User replaceable battery.
    3) Non proprietary battery.
    4) Beam pattern seems comparable to Urban 500 and Niterider minewt 600
    5) All aluminium construction (better heat sink?)


    Cons
    1) No user reviews thus far (well one user review)
    2) Company new to lighting business
    3) Doesnt come with helmet mount...they are working on one4) No side lighting




    Serfas True 500

    Pro:
    1) Cheaper than the Urban 500 and Niterider Minewt 600
    2) Replaceable battery *see con list*

    Con:
    1) no side lighting
    2) Not as bright as the Urban 500 and Niterider Minewt 600
    3) Proprietary Serfas battery...Deal breaker for me
    Cygolite expillion 400

    Con: did not give to MTBR to do a review about.


    I'm interested to see if people agree with my observations from the reviews.
    Nice list...now go get the Lyzene for $79 today @ Cambria Bike. Use the code SCARY20 to get that price
    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

  35. #435
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    393
    Why not get the L&M Urban 300 which does not have heat issues, is still plenty bright, and costs $20 less than the 500? It is true though that there is no external battery pack connectivity.

    I had no issues with it so far but of course sh*t happens (check out the Niterider thread for some nice experiences), but if the customer service is good this is nothing to worry about...

  36. #436
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    14
    I recently acquired the L&M Urban 500. Yes, it does get hot on the highest setting and the protection circuitry kicks it down to a lower setting. I suspect this happens only if the ambient temperature is more than 70 degrees and you are moving slow. I had it on a ride yesterday morning in 50 degree weather. It ran for 10 minutes longer than advertised on high and stayed cool throughout, even during a slow climb. It comes with a nice helmet mount - adjustable both up/down and left/right.

    I am glad I got the Urban 500 instead of the Urban 300. It costs only a little more. You can always run it at medium (250 lumens) to avoid heat issues at get a longer run time of 3 hours and still have the high mode (500 lumens) available to you on fast descents.

    [QUOTE=blueyin;8586998]As a commuter looking for a under $200 flashlight bike light I just wanted to point out some observations from the reviews and other information I have found.

    NOTE: I do not own any of these lights, but am looking to purchase one of them.

  37. #437
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    2,169
    Quote Originally Posted by blueyin View Post
    As a commuter looking for a under $200 flashlight bike light I just wanted to point out some observations from the reviews and other information I have found.

    NOTE: I do not own any of these lights, but am looking to purchase one of them.
    Not trying to derail this thread but I want to add another light to your list and it's a torch. The ZebraLight SC600. Awesome light with easily = the light power of those mentioned already, beautiful build quality and very solid. Takes 1 standard 18650 battery and the thing is only 4.2" in length and 87.2 grams w/o battery. This is a beautuiful light with stunning power and I will compare it to the new Lyzene when that shows up. You would need to mount it with a TwoFish Lockblock or something similar.

    SC600 Cree XM-L 750Lm Flashlight 18650
    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

  38. #438
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    14

    Reviews

    Hi Francois, there are no new light reviews since the Cateye Nanoshot on 10/23. Are you planning to put up some soon. I am suffering from withdrawal

  39. #439
    fc
    fc is online now
    mtbr founder Administrator
    Reputation: fc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 1996
    Posts
    25,479
    Heyyyyy, I just got back from a mini-vacation in Bend, Oregon. It was the best riding ever. Here's one of the days of riding:
    Mtbr with Cogwild Tours in Bend, Oregon - YouTube

    Anyway, I'm back to publishing the rest of the reviews and the wrap-ups.

    fc

  40. #440
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    347
    LOL at 4:50 and Daddy chasing his kid. thanks for sharing
    12' Sir9 Rigid
    11' Jabber Rigid
    10 SJ SS rigid
    10' Swork SS 29er
    10' Tallboy
    08' RM Vertex SS

  41. #441
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    1,461
    I 2nd the LOL on dad chasing his son !!!!!! Nice Endo Francois, hope all's well. Looking forward to the rest of your reviews. Cheers!!!

  42. #442
    RTM
    RTM is offline
    #1 Latex Salesman
    Reputation: RTM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    1,834
    Quote Originally Posted by Bet99ty00 View Post
    I think you have done good job breaking it down in the past. I like the idea of "commuter" and "high end" for sure.
    Battery life on max is always what I'm looking for.

    What light is photo 3? Pretty much makes it daylight out.

    I'll be waiting to see the shootout.
    Check out the link at the top of the forum page. Francios is not done yet, but lots of good stuff already posted.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  43. #443
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Cat-man-do's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    5,206
    Quote Originally Posted by skidad View Post
    Not trying to derail this thread but I want to add another light to your list and it's a torch. The ZebraLight SC600. Awesome light with easily = the light power of those mentioned already, beautiful build quality and very solid. Takes 1 standard 18650 battery and the thing is only 4.2" in length and 87.2 grams w/o battery. This is a beautuiful light with stunning power and I will compare it to the new Lyzene when that shows up. You would need to mount it with a TwoFish Lockblock or something similar.

    SC600 Cree XM-L 750Lm Flashlight 18650
    Yes, a nice torch it is and at $95 it better be...but seriously, there are any number of nice torches out there that don't cost a third of what you are suggesting.

    What I don't understand is "Why" the people who designed these so called "commuter lights", didn't make them more "user serviceable" as far as batteries go. Doing so would have probably doubled their sales. The Niterider cordless model would be sweet if it used standard 18650's and was designed for easy switch out. Because of my preference I tend to like the Lyzene models the most. If I wanted a commuter style light and didn't want to settle with a standard torch I would get one of those which "Do" use standard 18650's. Need more run time (?)...just bring more cells.

  44. #444
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    2,169
    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-man-do View Post
    Yes, a nice torch it is and at $95 it better be...but seriously, there are any number of nice torches out there that don't cost a third of what you are suggesting.

    What I don't understand is "Why" the people who designed these so called "commuter lights", didn't make them more "user serviceable" as far as batteries go. Doing so would have probably doubled their sales. The Niterider cordless model would be sweet if it used standard 18650's and was designed for easy switch out. Because of my preference I tend to like the Lyzene models the most. If I wanted a commuter style light and didn't want to settle with a standard torch I would get one of those which "Do" use standard 18650's. Need more run time (?)...just bring more cells.
    Cat Man....I know you know this but for others there are a number of things about the ZebraLight that make it such a good torch vs cheapo torches. Power, size, efficiency of battery use and build quality. Is it worth $95? Each person will have to decide that for themselves. I have the new Lyzene Power Drive and it's very nice with good output and a pretty tight beam with it's smooth reflector. The ZL SC600 is better as is the Spark SL6-800 which I also have (yeah, I'm a bit out of control). Both of these have orange peel reflectors which are 3mm and 6mm larger in diameter respectively than the new Lyzene which is approx. 18mm.

    Here is a quick summary from CPF on the SC600
    The SC600 packs a lot of punch – more than any other 1x18650 I’ve tested to date, including both the Thrunite Scorpion V2 and Spark SL6. It also has the most efficient and well-regulated circuit I’ve seen in this class. Oh, and have I mentioned it’s incredibly tiny too?

    Here is a link to the extensive test of the SC600 on CPF
    Zebralight SC600 (1x18650, XM-L) Review: RUNTIME, BEAMSHOTS, comparisons & more!
    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

  45. #445
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Cat-man-do's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    5,206
    Quote Originally Posted by skidad View Post
    ...Here is a link to the extensive test of the SC600 on CPF
    Zebralight SC600 (1x18650, XM-L) Review: RUNTIME, BEAMSHOTS, comparisons & more!
    I gave this a quick look-see over on CPF. It never ceases to amaze me how much detail they go into over on CPF.
    In a nut shell, a very good review. As far as torches go the SC600 looks to be the equivalent to what the Lupine lights are to other bike lights. It does look like a very nice torch. I have no doubt it would make a fine bar lamp. I'd go into the details but not on this thread. I'll just say that if I was considering a Niterider cordless 600L the SC600 might be the better way to go since I already have a bar torch mount ( about $3 ).

  46. #446
    Old-newbie
    Reputation: g3rG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    379
    Quote Originally Posted by skidad View Post
    Not trying to derail this thread but I want to add another light to your list and it's a torch. The ZebraLight SC600. Awesome light with easily = the light power of those mentioned already, beautiful build quality and very solid. Takes 1 standard 18650 battery and the thing is only 4.2" in length and 87.2 grams w/o battery. This is a beautuiful light with stunning power and I will compare it to the new Lyzene when that shows up. You would need to mount it with a TwoFish Lockblock or something similar.

    SC600 Cree XM-L 750Lm Flashlight 18650
    This is a fantastic little light. I did most of my summer night rides with one on my helmet. The beam pattern is perfect for a helmet light. Too narrow for a bar light. Two zip ties holds it securely to the helmet. I ran it at 350lm most of the time, but a double click on the button kicked it to 750 for times that I needed it.


    gerG
    Last edited by fc; 11-15-2011 at 12:40 PM.
    ...uphill uphill uphill DOWNHILL! uphill uphill uphill uphill DOWNHILL! uphill ...

  47. #447
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    1,058
    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-man-do View Post
    I gave this a quick look-see over on CPF. It never ceases to amaze me how much detail they go into over on CPF.
    In a nut shell, a very good review. As far as torches go the SC600 looks to be the equivalent to what the Lupine lights are to other bike lights. It does look like a very nice torch. I have no doubt it would make a fine bar lamp. I'd go into the details but not on this thread. I'll just say that if I was considering a Niterider cordless 600L the SC600 might be the better way to go since I already have a bar torch mount ( about $3 ).
    In your experience what DX torch would put numbers equal to this light in flood and power? Most of the DX lights seem to be throwers with a super tight hot spot. TIA.

  48. #448
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    64
    Quote Originally Posted by GSJ1973 View Post
    In your experience what DX torch would put numbers equal to this light in flood and power? Most of the DX lights seem to be throwers with a super tight hot spot. TIA.
    I commute on road and MUP. No trails.

    The best cheap torch for the bars that most people favor is the KD C8 (product # S009844). As for helmet, there are several that people seem to find acceptable. The Uniquefire 2100, Yezl Z1 and Ultrafire 504b, all with XM-L. I really like the C8 on the bar, but the XM-L on the helmet does not out throw the one on the bar. I've ordered an S-Mini from Shiningbeam hoping that it will have more throw than the XM-L so that I can see a bit further down the road for patches in the road that might indicate something to avoid.

  49. #449
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Cat-man-do's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    5,206
    Quote Originally Posted by GSJ1973 View Post
    In your experience what DX torch would put numbers equal to this light in flood and power? Most of the DX lights seem to be throwers with a super tight hot spot. TIA.
    Not really the thread to be answering this question but I'll try to be brief. I don't have an SC600 so I really can only speculate. The CPF review mentions the SC600 as having a good degree of flood/spill. The reflector on the SC600 looks like it might be a little wider than a standard P-60 reflector. Since I don't have one no way to know for sure. I will say though that a standard XM-L drop-in ( P-60 ) ( with OP reflector ) has a nice all-around beam pattern.

    Concerning total output, in the CPF review the "opening poster " was unable to give a current draw on the highest settings. That would of told me something about the over all output and gave me something to compare to. Without that I cannot comment on output other than to say that it's likely in the 2000-2500ma range. If true there are some drop-ins sold running in that area sold by other companies. Not sure if D/X has one in that range though. My K/D XM-L 5-mode drop-in draws 2500ma on high with a fresh cell and is damn bright for a T6 bin. The SC600 are likely using the best U-bin XM-L emitters. From what the OP said the current batch are all "cool white" with no green or purple tint. If true they probably are very nice. All of this is speculation on my part though.

    In the next few weeks I will be getting in a new order of XM-L stuff from Manafont that might give an interesting comparison to the SC600. I'll comment more about that ( on the D/X torch thread ) when the order comes in.
    Last edited by Cat-man-do; 11-07-2011 at 11:52 PM.

  50. #450
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    107
    Decided to post an updated LUX vs LUMENS chart for the lights with measurements posted to date.

    To anticipate some potential comments... I know Lux and Lumens are different types of measurements of light output (light density vs total output)... however, based on the way Francois does the Lux measurements (i.e. using an indirect measure of Lux in an enclosed room via reflected light) - he is using his room as a rough integrating sphere (or integrating cube complete with table, couch and TV if you will)...

    So if you don't agree with the approach, fine. But so far the data shows a reasonable (as defined by me) relationship between Francois measured Lux readings vs. Lezyne measured integrating sphere Lumen readings.

    So far the relationship is Lux x 9.5 = Lumens ± 15%.

    Considering I'm not able to visually detect a 15% difference in light output, as I said, close enough for me!

    2012 MTBR Light Test Lux vs Lumens 3
    Last edited by abacojeff; 11-09-2011 at 04:26 PM. Reason: updated chart to include term "MTBR Lux"

Page 9 of 12 FirstFirst ... 56789101112 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Lights shootout 2011
    By fc in forum California - Norcal
    Replies: 42
    Last Post: 12-08-2010, 10:55 AM
  2. Lights shootout 2010 edition thread on Lights and Night Riding
    By odtexas in forum Lights DIY - Do It Yourself
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 11-20-2009, 04:17 AM
  3. Mtbr Lights Shootout Update
    By fc in forum Lights and Night Riding
    Replies: 65
    Last Post: 02-22-2009, 06:26 PM
  4. Lights shootout comments
    By fc in forum Lights DIY - Do It Yourself
    Replies: 277
    Last Post: 12-08-2008, 06:39 AM
  5. mtbr Shine-Off lights shootout is here.
    By fc in forum Lights DIY - Do It Yourself
    Replies: 26
    Last Post: 01-26-2004, 08:02 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •