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  1. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by pethelman View Post
    It would seem that they have a very "eager" PR department and with their "spec" sheet being widely distributed to a lot of vendors, it might be difficult to make a correction.

    It does bring up a very good point though. With the competition being as tight as it is, and without some well defined "standards" in specifying bike light performance, you have to be a bit skeptical these days of most quoted specifications, unless there is supporting test data or explanation of how they arrived at the numbers.

    All the more why some objective testing such as this is valuable to the cycling community in general.
    Problem is it's working in their favor as people I know are believing it!

  2. #202
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    just making sure I am not missing anything... the link for the shootout at the top of the page only seems to have the Philips light on it so far. Is that what other are seeing or am in the in the wrong location?

    Thanks.

  3. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by cue003 View Post
    just making sure I am not missing anything... the link for the shootout at the top of the page only seems to have the Philips light on it so far. Is that what other are seeing or am in the in the wrong location?

    Thanks.
    We're all waiting for more results, which, given the large number of participants, may take a while, but I think we may see some reviews coming out incrementally, such as the Philips, before it's all said and done.

  4. #204
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    Francois. Please try and get hold of a Nightlightning IBLAAST IX, it would be good to see your review of it. I am aware that it has a more powerful and better beam than Lupine and Exposures best offerings according to Mountain Bike Auatralia's light test. From personal experience it's a brilliant light, and completely overpowers my friends Exposure 6 pack, the difference is huge.

  5. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete N View Post
    Francois. Please try and get hold of a Nightlightning IBLAAST IX, it would be good to see your review of it. I am aware that it has a more powerful and better beam than Lupine and Exposures best offerings according to Mountain Bike Auatralia's light test. From personal experience it's a brilliant light, and completely overpowers my friends Exposure 6 pack, the difference is huge.
    No doubt it's bright, but here we have yet another example of "specs gone wild."

    From Nightlighting's web site they quote:
    2800 Lumens @ 2100ma drive
    3600 Lumens @ 3000ma drive
    9x Cree XP-G LEDs

    But they neglected to add the line... "until the XP-Gs go up in smoke."

    The maximum drive for the XP-G is 1500mA (page 1 of the spec).
    http://www.cree.com/products/pdf/xlampxp-g.pdf

    Just for sake of argument, let's say you drive all nine LEDs at the max rated 1.5 amps.
    This gives us a theoretical lumen output of:
    463*9 = 4167 lumens
    De-rated by about 18% for heating and lens losses gives us:
    3417 lumens
    So at least they're in the ball park for the max lumen count.

    But here's the kicker.. at those levels you're burning OVER 50 WATTS, and drawing more than 3 amps continuously out of the battery pack. This is generally more than the safe limit for the typical 18650-based packs.

    Rather than trying to blast the LEDs at their maximum drive for an overly bright output, I would prefer to take the approach of running more LEDs with LESS drive, to get them down into the more efficient band of operation and extend the run times. Oh well. Given the look of the mount, they probably built this mostly with of off-road vehicles in mind.

  6. #206
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    more testing...

    I'll publish something tomorrow.

    On Friday, I'll go to Lezyne and use their integrating sphere.

    fc
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 2012 Mtbr Lights Shootout.-321612_10150344360603213_611473212_8129088_467750343_n.jpg  


  7. #207
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    I think you can fit one more on there Francois. LOL!!!

  8. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by pethelman View Post
    Rather than trying to blast the LEDs at their maximum drive for an overly bright output, I would prefer to take the approach of running more LEDs with LESS drive, to get them down into the more efficient band of operation and extend the run times.
    This is, apparently, the approach Dinotte took with the dual quad 1200L+. They certainly could have wrung out mucho mas lumens from 8 xpg's.
    "... displays the social skills of a barrel cactus." - TNC

  9. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by francois View Post
    more testing...

    I'll publish something tomorrow.

    On Friday, I'll go to Lezyne and use their integrating sphere.

    fc
    Gee - that Exposure's a fat little bundle of whoop-de-doo init!
    But where's the DesignShine? I'm sure you could fit that in there somewhere!

    Savvas.

  10. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by savvas View Post
    Gee - that Exposure's a fat little bundle of whoop-de-doo init!
    But where's the DesignShine? I'm sure you could fit that in there somewhere!

    Savvas.
    Looks like this was the "self-contained" test bed with no external batteries allowed. I'm sure riding with that many beams off the front is something to behold.

  11. #211
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    it was ok.

    fc
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 2012 Mtbr Lights Shootout.-dsc_0019.jpg  

    2012 Mtbr Lights Shootout.-dsc_0014.jpg  


  12. #212
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    You can always run very powerful lights in mid or lower power mode and extend easily the run times by many hours. The XPG or XML (xml slightly more efficient) LEDs are very efficient in lower power mode.

  13. #213
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    IBLAAST IX clarification

    [QUOTE=pethelman;8522875]No doubt it's bright, but here we have yet another example of "specs gone wild."

    From Nightlighting's web site they quote:
    2800 Lumens @ 2100ma drive
    3600 Lumens @ 3000ma drive
    9x Cree XP-G LEDs

    But they neglected to add the line... "until the XP-Gs go up in smoke." end quote''

    PETHELMAN

    Their website is a little misleading. The XPG's are actually driven in sets of three, each triple is driven at either 700ma, giving the quoted figure of @2100 or at 1000ma giving the quoted figure of 3000ma, so they are actually being run well within their 1500ma max.
    The figures they are quoting lumen wise are not taking into account the expected losses,
    however, and their 400lm per led at 1000ma, a little optimistic, at 1200ma yes. The mount, although basic works perfectly well. This light is brilliant, so much so all my riding friends are now looking at buying them and the one with the six pack is
    looking for a buyer. The group includes all the usual favourites from Lupine and Hope. I have no alliance to them, I live on the other side of the world. Just stating what a great
    light they make, compared to the other much more expensive lights I and MTB Australia
    have compared it to, nothing more or less. I would just like to get Francois's thoughts.

    The other thing you can do with these lights is change the driver settings in an admin mode built within the light set up, really easy by just pressing the button. This allows you
    to actually run them at 1200ma per triple so increasing the output further but at the
    expense of some run time. They also have loads of heatsink and lower output if things
    were to get too hot, and then power up again when cooled enough.
    I don't usually go for boutique, just because of the perception that it is better and have stayed away when it comes to bikes. I just really rate this product.

    From a 4.4ah battery pack I get 1hr 55mins at 1000ah drive. I have had my original Iblaast for over two years and it's been faultless, the IX for a year and again faultless.
    You could mark the brackets down for aesthetics that's for sure but they're easy to use and solid.
    Last edited by Pete N; 10-10-2011 at 06:15 AM.

  14. #214
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    These are the lights I have and at the bottom are the ones that are due to arrive soon.

    Light Flashlight Price Lumen
    Baja Designs Double Stryker $450.00 1800
    Baja Designs Stryker II $300.00 950
    Baja Designs Stryker SL $340.00 950
    DesignShine DS-1300 $280.00 1300
    Dinotte 400L $209.00 400
    Dinotte XML-1 $169.00 400
    Dinotte XML-3 $259.00 1200
    Dinottel 1200L $350.00 1200
    Exposure Diablo Yes $300.00 975
    Exposure Joystick Yes $220.00 325
    Exposure MaxxD Yes $500.00 1285
    Exposure Six Pack Yes $600.00 1925
    Exposure Toro Yes $400.00 975
    Jet Lites A-51 $200.00 700
    Light and Motion Seca 1400 $700.00 1400
    Light and Motion Urban 500 $160.00 500
    Light and Motion vis360 $170.00 110
    Lupine Betty $930.00 2050/2300/2600
    Lupine Betty TL Yes 2050/2300/2600
    Lupine Piko 3 $330.00 750
    Lupine Piko TL Max Yes $400.00 750
    Lupine Piko TL Mini Yes 550
    Lupine Wilma 7 $695.00 1200/1300/1500
    Lupine Wilma TL Yes $549.00 1200/1300/1500
    Magicshine MJ-872 $185.00 1600
    Niterider Mako 1 $40.00 100
    Niterider Mako 2 $50.00 130
    Niterider Minewt 600 Cordless Yes $150.00 600
    Niterider Pro 1500 $350.00 1500
    Niterider Pro 3000 $700.00 3000
    Niterider Pro 750 $250.00 750
    Philips SafeRide Yes $200.00 400
    Princeton Tec Push Yes $50.00 100
    Serfas True 1500 $390.00 1500
    Serfas True 500 Yes $150.00 500
    Tiny Sun Lights Sport2700x 2700


    Pending:
    Jet Lites Dual A-51 $300.00 1400
    Blackburn
    Cateye Sumo 2 $450.00 1000
    Cateye Sumo 3 1600
    Cateye Nanoshot Yes $100.00 250
    Cateye Econom 540 RC Yes $65.00
    Niteflux Redzone 4
    Niteflux Pmini12 Yes 1000
    Niteflux Pmax24 2000
    Magicshine
    Cygolite TridenX 750 OSP $350.00 750
    Cygolite MityCross 480 OSP $250.00 480
    Fullbeam Fusion Yes 400 gbp 2100
    Fullbeam Night-Nemesis 550 gbp 2500
    Hope R4 1000
    Bikeray
    Nova Sport

  15. #215
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    Not to be nosy, but what does the "yes" mean.... possibly that you have a review in the wings waiting?

  16. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete N View Post
    The XPG's are actually driven in sets of three, each triple is driven at either 700ma, giving the quoted figure of @2100 or at 1000ma giving the quoted figure of 3000ma, so they are actually being run well within their 1500ma max.
    Hey Pete, thanks for clearing that up. The 700mA drive works quite well for these triples, so I'm glad to see that's how it's configured. No need to go any higher. I build a twin (double-triple) version and it's plenty bright. But you're right, they got a little "happy" with their lumen estimates.

    @700mA the theoretical output from 9 XP-Gs would be:
    139*1.85*9 = 2314
    OR
    roughly 1900 out the front. But who's counting anyway... lumen counts are becoming increasingly irrelevant. It's much more now about form/fit/function, which includes beam characteristics, mounting options, battery life, ease of use, and maybe to a smaller degree, aesthetics on the bike. JMO.

  17. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by blueyin View Post
    Not to be nosy, but what does the "yes" mean.... possibly that you have a review in the wings waiting?
    "Yes" means it's a flashlight style bike light.

    fc

  18. #218
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    A few reviews have started to come out in the UK mags and the lupine's are getting scored very low mainly cause they are so expensive.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  19. #219
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    Can't wait to see the reviews on the Serfas True 500/1500... My LBS stocks them and from just playing with them they seemed awesome. Lights felt very balanced and love the fact that it is a cylinder style batter that can be removed and replaced quickly and easily.
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  20. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by spankone View Post
    A few reviews have started to come out in the UK mags and the lupine's are getting scored very low mainly cause they are so expensive.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Do you have any links to these reviews you can share?

  21. #221
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    http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/catego...light-11-45287

    http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/catego...light-11-45296

    Sorry if this is against the rules.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  22. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by francois View Post
    These are the lights I have and at the bottom are the ones that are due to arrive soon.

    Light Flashlight Price Lumen
    Baja Designs Double Stryker $450.00 1800
    Baja Designs Stryker II $300.00 950
    Baja Designs Stryker SL $340.00 950
    DesignShine DS-1300 $280.00 1300
    Dinotte 400L $209.00 400
    Dinotte XML-1 $169.00 400
    Dinotte XML-3 $259.00 1200
    Dinottel 1200L $350.00 1200
    Exposure Diablo Yes $300.00 975
    Exposure Joystick Yes $220.00 325
    Exposure MaxxD Yes $500.00 1285
    Exposure Six Pack Yes $600.00 1925
    Exposure Toro Yes $400.00 975
    Jet Lites A-51 $200.00 700
    Light and Motion Seca 1400 $700.00 1400
    Light and Motion Urban 500 $160.00 500
    Light and Motion vis360 $170.00 110
    Lupine Betty $930.00 2050/2300/2600
    Lupine Betty TL Yes 2050/2300/2600
    Lupine Piko 3 $330.00 750
    Lupine Piko TL Max Yes $400.00 750
    Lupine Piko TL Mini Yes 550
    Lupine Wilma 7 $695.00 1200/1300/1500
    Lupine Wilma TL Yes $549.00 1200/1300/1500
    Magicshine MJ-872 $185.00 1600
    Niterider Mako 1 $40.00 100
    Niterider Mako 2 $50.00 130
    Niterider Minewt 600 Cordless Yes $150.00 600
    Niterider Pro 1500 $350.00 1500
    Niterider Pro 3000 $700.00 3000
    Niterider Pro 750 $250.00 750
    Philips SafeRide Yes $200.00 400
    Princeton Tec Push Yes $50.00 100
    Serfas True 1500 $390.00 1500
    Serfas True 500 Yes $150.00 500
    Tiny Sun Lights Sport2700x 2700


    Pending:
    Jet Lites Dual A-51 $300.00 1400
    Blackburn
    Cateye Sumo 2 $450.00 1000
    Cateye Sumo 3 1600
    Cateye Nanoshot Yes $100.00 250
    Cateye Econom 540 RC Yes $65.00
    Niteflux Redzone 4
    Niteflux Pmini12 Yes 1000
    Niteflux Pmax24 2000
    Magicshine
    Cygolite TridenX 750 OSP $350.00 750
    Cygolite MityCross 480 OSP $250.00 480
    Fullbeam Fusion Yes 400 gbp 2100
    Fullbeam Night-Nemesis 550 gbp 2500
    Hope R4 1000
    Bikeray
    Nova Sport



    Francois, what about GEMINI TITAN & XERA?

    i was waitng for a review of those.

    Regards

  23. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by mochodurazo View Post
    Francois, what about GEMINI TITAN & XERA?

    i was waitng for a review of those.

    Regards
    Yes, Gemini is coming. I think them and Bikeray experienced some delivery delays so I don't have them yet.

    fc

  24. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by francois View Post
    Yes, Gemini is coming. I think them and Bikeray experienced some delivery delays so I don't have them yet.

    fc
    No love for your big advertiser nitelights with their 1200lm XML destroyer?
    DIY LED Bike Lights:
    A few Dynamo builds and some Small battery lights

  25. #225
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    This year's Niteflux lights look stunningly good. They have the smallest helmet light (compared to which the Lupine Piko is just a brick on your head), a bright light with a really nice beam pattern (based on the beamshots), REMOTE CONTROL - something which Lupine seem to have abandoned (shame on them), and an almost perfect taillight.
    I am excited to read about these lights in the review.

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