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  1. #426
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    hmmm

  2. #427
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    In considering whether the easy to execute Lux measurement that François conducts are a good predictor of actual Lumen output as measured in an integrating sphere... I made a simple scatter plot of Lux vs. Lumens for the lights that have both values published to date.

    The relationship is highly correlated within a certain percent error... and it turns out that Lux times 9.7 is a good predictor of Lumens.

    To make the math easier, even Lux times 10 is a fairly good predictor (generally less than 10% error).


  3. #428
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    Quote Originally Posted by abacojeff View Post
    In considering whether the easy to execute Lux measurement that François conducts are a good predictor of actual Lumen output as measured in an integrating sphere... I made a simple scatter plot of Lux vs. Lumens for the lights that have both values published to date.

    The relationship is highly correlated within a certain percent error... and it turns out that Lux times 9.7 is a good predictor of Lumens.

    To make the math easier, even Lux times 10 is a fairly good predictor (generally less than 10% error).

    Are the lights listed the only ones you did the analysis on? If so I'd like to see if the multiplication factor holds for a larger set. I think that the relation you found has to do with the sphere. If the measuring sphere was larger by a factor of ten, I wouldn't be surprised if there was a smaller correlation by just about the same factor.
    If anyone has or knows of a 15.5" blue 2009 Gary Fisher Mamba for sale, please let me know.

  4. #429
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    Quote Originally Posted by PiranhaFisher View Post
    Are the lights listed the only ones you did the analysis on? If so I'd like to see if the multiplication factor holds for a larger set. I think that the relation you found has to do with the sphere. If the measuring sphere was larger by a factor of ten, I wouldn't be surprised if there was a smaller correlation by just about the same factor.
    Francois hasn't published all the Lumen measurements from his trip to the integrating sphere at Lezyne yet... when he does publish more data - we will be able to see how well the estimate holds up for other lights.

    I wouldn't be surprised if higher powered lights have a different profile and there is also the possibility of reflector type, flood vs spot, affecting the results...

    However, for a rough 'rule of thumb' it would be great if the ratio between Francois' Lux readings continue to correlate reasonably well to Lumens.

    This will allow estimation for lights from previous years that aren't being tested in the integrating sphere this year, old designs, etc... and estimation from certain models of lights from this year that didn't fit in the integrating sphere.

  5. #430
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    Quote Originally Posted by abacojeff View Post
    Francois hasn't published all the Lumen measurements from his trip to the integrating sphere at Lezyne yet... when he does publish more data - we will be able to see how well the estimate holds up for other lights.

    I wouldn't be surprised if higher powered lights have a different profile and there is also the possibility of reflector type, flood vs spot, affecting the results...

    However, for a rough 'rule of thumb' it would be great if the ratio between Francois' Lux readings continue to correlate reasonably well to Lumens.

    This will allow estimation for lights from previous years that aren't being tested in the integrating sphere this year, old designs, etc... and estimation from certain models of lights from this year that didn't fit in the integrating sphere.
    Do keep in mind that he mentioned the non-ideal conditions behind the lights that could not be fully inserted into the 2" diameter of the sphere. This alone will completely skew the data from any kind of correlation with the lux test.

  6. #431
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    FC - I just wanted to thank you for helping me narrow down my choice of lights. I'm sure it takes a lot of your time to put these reviews together.

  7. #432
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    Hey Francois, just noticed on the lux measurement tables you have the info on the TridenX as having 1600 lumens and 101 lux. I believe it was supposed to 750 lumens and 81 lux. Cheers!!! Looks like it is mixed up with the 350 as well.

  8. #433
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    commuter Flashlight review comparisons.

    As a commuter looking for a under $200 flashlight bike light I just wanted to point out some observations from the reviews and other information I have found.

    NOTE: I do not own any of these lights, but am looking to purchase one of them.

    The contenders:

    Light and Motion Urban 500:

    Pros:
    1) MTBR says best commuting light
    2) Only light with side lighting
    3) Looks like the best beam patterns for MY commuting.
    4) One of the leading companies producing bike lights.

    Cons:
    1) Poor thermal regulation, the thing gets really hot. (So says Francois)
    2) Poor customer reviews
    Amazon.com: ColoradoSBDR's review of Light and Motion Urban 500 Commuter Headlamp
    3) Not many user reviews yet.
    4) Does not use standard battery. Can not bring spare battery with me for a ride.


    Niterider Minewt 600 cordless

    Pros
    1) Doesnt get as hot as Urban 500
    2) Beam spread comparable to Urban 500
    3) One of the leading companies producing bike lights.
    4) Plenty of user reviews, most very positive.

    Cons
    1) Read a couple user reviews that say USB cover doesn't stay on very well. This is the same chassis as previous model which also had the same problem.
    2) Bulkier than the other lights in this category
    3) A little heavy for a helmet mount
    4) Battery not user replaceable / cant bring spare battery with me for ride.
    5) no side lighting


    Lezyne Super drive 450

    Pros
    1) Cheapest out of all the lights
    2) User replaceable battery.
    3) Non proprietary battery.
    4) Beam pattern seems comparable to Urban 500 and Niterider minewt 600
    5) All aluminium construction (better heat sink?)


    Cons
    1) No user reviews thus far (well one user review)
    2) Company new to lighting business
    3) Doesnt come with helmet mount
    4) No side lighting




    Serfas True 500

    Pro:
    1) Cheaper than the Urban 500 and Niterider Minewt 600
    2) Replaceable battery

    Con:
    1) no side lighting
    2) Not as bright as the Urban 500 and Niterider Minewt 600


    Cygolite expillion 400

    Con: did not give to MTBR to do a review about.


    I'm interested to see if people agree with my observations from the reviews.

  9. #434
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    Quote Originally Posted by blueyin View Post

    Niterider Minewt 600 cordless

    Pros
    1) Doesnt get as hot as Urban 500
    2) Beam spread comparable to Urban 500
    3) One of the leading companies producing bike lights.
    4) Plenty of user reviews, most very positive.

    Cons
    1) Read a couple user reviews that say USB cover doesn't stay on very well. This is the same chassis as previous model which also had the same problem.
    2) Bulkier than the other lights in this category
    3) A little heavy for a helmet mount
    4) Battery not user replaceable / cant bring spare battery with me for ride. *deal breaker IMO*5)
    no side lighting
    6) according to reviews clamp doesn't hold well for off road use

    Lezyne Super drive 450

    Pros
    1) Cheapest out of all the lights
    2) User replaceable battery.
    3) Non proprietary battery.
    4) Beam pattern seems comparable to Urban 500 and Niterider minewt 600
    5) All aluminium construction (better heat sink?)


    Cons
    1) No user reviews thus far (well one user review)
    2) Company new to lighting business
    3) Doesnt come with helmet mount...they are working on one4) No side lighting




    Serfas True 500

    Pro:
    1) Cheaper than the Urban 500 and Niterider Minewt 600
    2) Replaceable battery *see con list*

    Con:
    1) no side lighting
    2) Not as bright as the Urban 500 and Niterider Minewt 600
    3) Proprietary Serfas battery...Deal breaker for me
    Cygolite expillion 400

    Con: did not give to MTBR to do a review about.


    I'm interested to see if people agree with my observations from the reviews.
    Nice list...now go get the Lyzene for $79 today @ Cambria Bike. Use the code SCARY20 to get that price
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  10. #435
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    Why not get the L&M Urban 300 which does not have heat issues, is still plenty bright, and costs $20 less than the 500? It is true though that there is no external battery pack connectivity.

    I had no issues with it so far but of course sh*t happens (check out the Niterider thread for some nice experiences), but if the customer service is good this is nothing to worry about...

  11. #436
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    I recently acquired the L&M Urban 500. Yes, it does get hot on the highest setting and the protection circuitry kicks it down to a lower setting. I suspect this happens only if the ambient temperature is more than 70 degrees and you are moving slow. I had it on a ride yesterday morning in 50 degree weather. It ran for 10 minutes longer than advertised on high and stayed cool throughout, even during a slow climb. It comes with a nice helmet mount - adjustable both up/down and left/right.

    I am glad I got the Urban 500 instead of the Urban 300. It costs only a little more. You can always run it at medium (250 lumens) to avoid heat issues at get a longer run time of 3 hours and still have the high mode (500 lumens) available to you on fast descents.

    [QUOTE=blueyin;8586998]As a commuter looking for a under $200 flashlight bike light I just wanted to point out some observations from the reviews and other information I have found.

    NOTE: I do not own any of these lights, but am looking to purchase one of them.

  12. #437
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    Quote Originally Posted by blueyin View Post
    As a commuter looking for a under $200 flashlight bike light I just wanted to point out some observations from the reviews and other information I have found.

    NOTE: I do not own any of these lights, but am looking to purchase one of them.
    Not trying to derail this thread but I want to add another light to your list and it's a torch. The ZebraLight SC600. Awesome light with easily = the light power of those mentioned already, beautiful build quality and very solid. Takes 1 standard 18650 battery and the thing is only 4.2" in length and 87.2 grams w/o battery. This is a beautuiful light with stunning power and I will compare it to the new Lyzene when that shows up. You would need to mount it with a TwoFish Lockblock or something similar.

    SC600 Cree XM-L 750Lm Flashlight 18650
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  13. #438
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    Reviews

    Hi Francois, there are no new light reviews since the Cateye Nanoshot on 10/23. Are you planning to put up some soon. I am suffering from withdrawal

  14. #439
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    Heyyyyy, I just got back from a mini-vacation in Bend, Oregon. It was the best riding ever. Here's one of the days of riding:
    Mtbr with Cogwild Tours in Bend, Oregon - YouTube

    Anyway, I'm back to publishing the rest of the reviews and the wrap-ups.

    fc

  15. #440
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    LOL at 4:50 and Daddy chasing his kid. thanks for sharing
    12' Sir9 Rigid
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  16. #441
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    I 2nd the LOL on dad chasing his son !!!!!! Nice Endo Francois, hope all's well. Looking forward to the rest of your reviews. Cheers!!!

  17. #442
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bet99ty00 View Post
    I think you have done good job breaking it down in the past. I like the idea of "commuter" and "high end" for sure.
    Battery life on max is always what I'm looking for.

    What light is photo 3? Pretty much makes it daylight out.

    I'll be waiting to see the shootout.
    Check out the link at the top of the forum page. Francios is not done yet, but lots of good stuff already posted.


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  18. #443
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidad View Post
    Not trying to derail this thread but I want to add another light to your list and it's a torch. The ZebraLight SC600. Awesome light with easily = the light power of those mentioned already, beautiful build quality and very solid. Takes 1 standard 18650 battery and the thing is only 4.2" in length and 87.2 grams w/o battery. This is a beautuiful light with stunning power and I will compare it to the new Lyzene when that shows up. You would need to mount it with a TwoFish Lockblock or something similar.

    SC600 Cree XM-L 750Lm Flashlight 18650
    Yes, a nice torch it is and at $95 it better be...but seriously, there are any number of nice torches out there that don't cost a third of what you are suggesting.

    What I don't understand is "Why" the people who designed these so called "commuter lights", didn't make them more "user serviceable" as far as batteries go. Doing so would have probably doubled their sales. The Niterider cordless model would be sweet if it used standard 18650's and was designed for easy switch out. Because of my preference I tend to like the Lyzene models the most. If I wanted a commuter style light and didn't want to settle with a standard torch I would get one of those which "Do" use standard 18650's. Need more run time (?)...just bring more cells.

  19. #444
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-man-do View Post
    Yes, a nice torch it is and at $95 it better be...but seriously, there are any number of nice torches out there that don't cost a third of what you are suggesting.

    What I don't understand is "Why" the people who designed these so called "commuter lights", didn't make them more "user serviceable" as far as batteries go. Doing so would have probably doubled their sales. The Niterider cordless model would be sweet if it used standard 18650's and was designed for easy switch out. Because of my preference I tend to like the Lyzene models the most. If I wanted a commuter style light and didn't want to settle with a standard torch I would get one of those which "Do" use standard 18650's. Need more run time (?)...just bring more cells.
    Cat Man....I know you know this but for others there are a number of things about the ZebraLight that make it such a good torch vs cheapo torches. Power, size, efficiency of battery use and build quality. Is it worth $95? Each person will have to decide that for themselves. I have the new Lyzene Power Drive and it's very nice with good output and a pretty tight beam with it's smooth reflector. The ZL SC600 is better as is the Spark SL6-800 which I also have (yeah, I'm a bit out of control). Both of these have orange peel reflectors which are 3mm and 6mm larger in diameter respectively than the new Lyzene which is approx. 18mm.

    Here is a quick summary from CPF on the SC600
    The SC600 packs a lot of punch – more than any other 1x18650 I’ve tested to date, including both the Thrunite Scorpion V2 and Spark SL6. It also has the most efficient and well-regulated circuit I’ve seen in this class. Oh, and have I mentioned it’s incredibly tiny too?

    Here is a link to the extensive test of the SC600 on CPF
    Zebralight SC600 (1x18650, XM-L) Review: RUNTIME, BEAMSHOTS, comparisons & more!
    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

  20. #445
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidad View Post
    ...Here is a link to the extensive test of the SC600 on CPF
    Zebralight SC600 (1x18650, XM-L) Review: RUNTIME, BEAMSHOTS, comparisons & more!
    I gave this a quick look-see over on CPF. It never ceases to amaze me how much detail they go into over on CPF.
    In a nut shell, a very good review. As far as torches go the SC600 looks to be the equivalent to what the Lupine lights are to other bike lights. It does look like a very nice torch. I have no doubt it would make a fine bar lamp. I'd go into the details but not on this thread. I'll just say that if I was considering a Niterider cordless 600L the SC600 might be the better way to go since I already have a bar torch mount ( about $3 ).

  21. #446
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidad View Post
    Not trying to derail this thread but I want to add another light to your list and it's a torch. The ZebraLight SC600. Awesome light with easily = the light power of those mentioned already, beautiful build quality and very solid. Takes 1 standard 18650 battery and the thing is only 4.2" in length and 87.2 grams w/o battery. This is a beautuiful light with stunning power and I will compare it to the new Lyzene when that shows up. You would need to mount it with a TwoFish Lockblock or something similar.

    SC600 Cree XM-L 750Lm Flashlight 18650
    This is a fantastic little light. I did most of my summer night rides with one on my helmet. The beam pattern is perfect for a helmet light. Too narrow for a bar light. Two zip ties holds it securely to the helmet. I ran it at 350lm most of the time, but a double click on the button kicked it to 750 for times that I needed it.


    gerG
    Last edited by francois; 11-15-2011 at 12:40 PM.
    ...uphill uphill uphill DOWNHILL! uphill uphill uphill uphill DOWNHILL! uphill ...

  22. #447
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-man-do View Post
    I gave this a quick look-see over on CPF. It never ceases to amaze me how much detail they go into over on CPF.
    In a nut shell, a very good review. As far as torches go the SC600 looks to be the equivalent to what the Lupine lights are to other bike lights. It does look like a very nice torch. I have no doubt it would make a fine bar lamp. I'd go into the details but not on this thread. I'll just say that if I was considering a Niterider cordless 600L the SC600 might be the better way to go since I already have a bar torch mount ( about $3 ).
    In your experience what DX torch would put numbers equal to this light in flood and power? Most of the DX lights seem to be throwers with a super tight hot spot. TIA.

  23. #448
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    Quote Originally Posted by GSJ1973 View Post
    In your experience what DX torch would put numbers equal to this light in flood and power? Most of the DX lights seem to be throwers with a super tight hot spot. TIA.
    I commute on road and MUP. No trails.

    The best cheap torch for the bars that most people favor is the KD C8 (product # S009844). As for helmet, there are several that people seem to find acceptable. The Uniquefire 2100, Yezl Z1 and Ultrafire 504b, all with XM-L. I really like the C8 on the bar, but the XM-L on the helmet does not out throw the one on the bar. I've ordered an S-Mini from Shiningbeam hoping that it will have more throw than the XM-L so that I can see a bit further down the road for patches in the road that might indicate something to avoid.

  24. #449
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    Quote Originally Posted by GSJ1973 View Post
    In your experience what DX torch would put numbers equal to this light in flood and power? Most of the DX lights seem to be throwers with a super tight hot spot. TIA.
    Not really the thread to be answering this question but I'll try to be brief. I don't have an SC600 so I really can only speculate. The CPF review mentions the SC600 as having a good degree of flood/spill. The reflector on the SC600 looks like it might be a little wider than a standard P-60 reflector. Since I don't have one no way to know for sure. I will say though that a standard XM-L drop-in ( P-60 ) ( with OP reflector ) has a nice all-around beam pattern.

    Concerning total output, in the CPF review the "opening poster " was unable to give a current draw on the highest settings. That would of told me something about the over all output and gave me something to compare to. Without that I cannot comment on output other than to say that it's likely in the 2000-2500ma range. If true there are some drop-ins sold running in that area sold by other companies. Not sure if D/X has one in that range though. My K/D XM-L 5-mode drop-in draws 2500ma on high with a fresh cell and is damn bright for a T6 bin. The SC600 are likely using the best U-bin XM-L emitters. From what the OP said the current batch are all "cool white" with no green or purple tint. If true they probably are very nice. All of this is speculation on my part though.

    In the next few weeks I will be getting in a new order of XM-L stuff from Manafont that might give an interesting comparison to the SC600. I'll comment more about that ( on the D/X torch thread ) when the order comes in.
    Last edited by Cat-man-do; 11-07-2011 at 11:52 PM.

  25. #450
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    Decided to post an updated LUX vs LUMENS chart for the lights with measurements posted to date.

    To anticipate some potential comments... I know Lux and Lumens are different types of measurements of light output (light density vs total output)... however, based on the way Francois does the Lux measurements (i.e. using an indirect measure of Lux in an enclosed room via reflected light) - he is using his room as a rough integrating sphere (or integrating cube complete with table, couch and TV if you will)...

    So if you don't agree with the approach, fine. But so far the data shows a reasonable (as defined by me) relationship between Francois measured Lux readings vs. Lezyne measured integrating sphere Lumen readings.

    So far the relationship is Lux x 9.5 = Lumens ± 15%.

    Considering I'm not able to visually detect a 15% difference in light output, as I said, close enough for me!

    2012 MTBR Light Test Lux vs Lumens 3
    Last edited by abacojeff; 11-09-2011 at 04:26 PM. Reason: updated chart to include term "MTBR Lux"

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