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  1. #301
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    Quote Originally Posted by francois View Post
    Correct. I don't want any post-processing. I may try shooting with another camera and in raw formats.

    fc
    fyi - for this advice at least -
    1) Turn ADL off.
    2) Set Contrast to Neutral or Low.

    This isn't post-processing, it's more...turning down and reducing the amount of in-camera processing that's being done. It's also something you would set these things on the camera and wouldn't require any work past that. (Not commenting on whether it's good or bad advice, just mentioning it's not time consuming "post-processing", and if you're looking for "natural" results turning ADL off would probably produce more consistent and natural results than leaving it on.)

  2. #302
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    Ok, so I just spent a couple hours and most of a pot of coffee reading this whole thread....awesome stuff!

    Thank you Francis for all the work that goes into this, I'm looking for a light setup as we speak for our weekly night ride and the timing couldn't be better...

  3. #303
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    Quote Originally Posted by lou2uanme View Post
    Lupine website says the Betty 2600 is 460 grams (1.01lbs) and has a 7.5 amp hour Li-Ion battery. Cost $930

    Niterider website says Pro 3000 is 812 grams (1.79lbs) and has a 11.6 amp hour Li-Ion battery.
    Cost $700.

    The Niterider Pro 3000 battery has 4.1 amp hours more capacity than the Betty. That is a lot more battery capacity for 3/4 pound more in weight.

    I'm not sure if the website info is accurate or if the weights include mounts or not but that is what is posted.


    I'd prefer to get a higher capacity battery and brighter light and at $230 cheaper....... 3 reasons to get the NR Pro 3000 over the lighter weight Betty 2600
    I prefer a light that I can upgrade and not have to throw away in a couple of years
    BBW. MS, RD

  4. #304
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    NR Pro 3000 is only $550 at PerformanceBikes.com. They are currently out of stock, but will get it in on the 1st of Nov. It makes it an amazing deal compared to Lupine.

  5. #305
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    Really looking forward to the review of the Exposure sixpack, as this is the one I recently ordered (haven't received it yet). Around when can we expect this review?

  6. #306
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    Quote Originally Posted by pethelman View Post
    ....The "tape over the top half" trick only really works if you're blocking the direct line of sight to the emitter itself. So you probably need to block just a little more than the top half. Even better than just the tape would be a small mirror, or even smooth aluminum foil. This would have the effect of reflecting back a good portion of the light, and if the light is using a parabolic reflector, it would be re-directed out the bottom half, essentially what the Philips is doing, only with a much bigger reflector with a compound shape. But then again, considering the output lost doing this, you might be just as well off to cut the light's total power output (if possible) and re-aiming for slightly less throw. Just IMO.
    I created a small hood for my triple XPG and used a small bit of aluminum foil to line the underneath part. I've been using it this way ever since and I swear it puts some of the wasted light back down to where you need it.

    Quote Originally Posted by francois View Post
    Yes, both these lights are the latest from Dinotte and received last week. We are still investigating as well. More shooting tonight Integrating Sphere on Friday.

    The 1200L is on par with other 1200 lumen lights. The XML-3 seems to be putting out about 1400 lumens.

    Treat these numbers as preliminary. Oct. 31 is the final deadline for all the photos and data.

    Here's a good page with historical data too:
    Bike Lights Shootout Light Meter Measurements | Mountain Bike Review

    fc


    Francois, Very good work on getting all those lights. I am a little disappointed that the Bikeray IV or III hasn't been included yet. I really would of liked to know how the output(s) compared to the MS MJ-872.

    I'm still shaking my head over the comparisons with the DiNotte 1300L+ and the XML 3. The photos that Randyharris did showed the 1300L+ ( up graded ) to throw further than the DiNotte XML3. Something not right here. One of you has to be wrong. If you had plans to buy a DiNotte this would certainly give you pause.

  7. #307
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    I just got back from the Integrating Sphere session. I have some good data but the big lights did not measure well. The sphere is small and the lights are mounted outside with an AC vent cooling the light. The hole in the sphere is 2 inches big and the light head had to fit in the space and a collar had to seal the hole. This worked very well for all self-contained lights.

    The Sphere was calibrated in the beginning and end of the session with a 379 lumen flashlight. We took lumen readings at startup, 1 minute, 2 and 3 minutes. Color temperature was recorded too.

    We have graphs of some lights lumen output througout their whole battery run time.

    photos:
    1) san jose to san luis obispo
    2) my hosts had good coffee
    3) this small integrating sphere would bounce the external light 10x around the sphere
    4) the light is measured by a sensor connected to a PC
    5) exposure toro during a measuring session
    6) an output graph of a good light on the left and another one on the right.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 2012 Mtbr Lights Shootout.-dsc_0049.jpg  

    2012 Mtbr Lights Shootout.-dsc_0051.jpg  

    2012 Mtbr Lights Shootout.-dsc_0066.jpg  

    2012 Mtbr Lights Shootout.-dsc_0070.jpg  

    2012 Mtbr Lights Shootout.-dsc_0079.jpg  

    2012 Mtbr Lights Shootout.-dsc_0085.jpg  


  8. #308
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-man-do View Post
    I created a small hood for my triple XPG and used a small bit of aluminum foil to line the underneath part. I've been using it this way ever since and I swear it puts some of the wasted light back down to where you need it.

    .
    Cat-man: Do you have a photo of your light + hood that you could post?

  9. #309
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    Quote Originally Posted by francois View Post
    I just got back from the Integrating Sphere session. I have some good data but the big lights did not measure well. The sphere is small and the lights are mounted outside with an AC vent cooling the light. The hole in the sphere is 2 inches big and the light head had to fit in the space and a collar had to seal the hole. This worked very well for all self-contained lights.

    The Sphere was calibrated in the beginning and end of the session with a 379 lumen flashlight. We took lumen readings at startup, 1 minute, 2 and 3 minutes. Color temperature was recorded too.

    We have graphs of some lights lumen output througout their whole battery run time.

    photos:
    1) san jose to san luis obispo
    2) my hosts had good coffee
    3) this small integrating sphere would bounce the external light 10x around the sphere
    4) the light is measured by a sensor connected to a PC
    5) exposure toro during a measuring session
    6) an output graph of a good light on the left and another one on the right.
    Very, very, cool. Thanks for taking the time to go to the sphere.

    Did you manage to get any of the new Lezyne lights to test? They look like they might be great commuter lights.

  10. #310
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    Good work, Francois!

    I would really ask that you still do your MTBR testing too. That is relatively calibrated and it is the only means we would really have of comparing to previously tested lights. I'm also concerned about the big lights as you mentioned.

    J.

  11. #311
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-man-do View Post
    I created a small hood for my triple XPG and used a small bit of aluminum foil to line the underneath part. I've been using it this way ever since and I swear it puts some of the wasted light back down to where you need it.





    Francois, Very good work on getting all those lights. I am a little disappointed that the Bikeray IV or III hasn't been included yet. I really would of liked to know how the output(s) compared to the MS MJ-872.

    I'm still shaking my head over the comparisons with the DiNotte 1300L+ and the XML 3. The photos that Randyharris did showed the 1300L+ ( up graded ) to throw further than the DiNotte XML3. Something not right here. One of you has to be wrong. If you had plans to buy a DiNotte this would certainly give you pause.
    I've considered a light hood before for different reasons (blinding other riders, pedistrians, drivers, etc.) and am interested in how much wased lite you reclaimed. Your opinion would be appreciated. Also is your fabricated reflector flat or formfitted to the lens shape?

  12. #312
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    Quote Originally Posted by joep7 View Post
    Really looking forward to the review of the Exposure sixpack, as this is the one I recently ordered (haven't received it yet). Around when can we expect this review?
    I too am waiting for this review, however I think I heard in one of the videos that this light takes forever to recharge. So for me, I output is just one deciding factor, durability, form factor, ease of use, all come into play.

    - Roger

  13. #313
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    Francois,

    Thanks for doing all these test -- they have been very helpful and I know that it is a lot of work.

    I have a question, for the Exposure lights, like the Diablo and Toro, the 2012 numbers are lower than the 2011 numbers. For example, the Diablo is listed as 59 lux for 2012 while last year it was listed as 63.

    Could this be due to the new Intelligent Thermal Management system that Exposure added this year. It is supposed to reduce the light level if the light heats up. During testing, was there any airflow over the lights?

    Thanks.

  14. #314
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    Quote Originally Posted by a.k.a. View Post
    By the way, John, the D7000 currently has the highest dynamic-range sensor going in the 35mm format DSLR world -- coming in at 14 f-stops, according to DxOMark It is equipped with the same sensor as Nikon's top-of-the-line D9000. The only thing it ain't got is a full-frame 35mm sensor, like the D3 series.

    No need to hunt for a better camera, Francois. You have THE sweetest camera of the DSLR world.
    Nikon D9000? Did I miss something? Like a year? Is it 2012 already? Where am I?
    "... displays the social skills of a barrel cactus." - TNC

  15. #315
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    Francois,

    A note on Dinotte nomenclature:

    The dual quad XP-G light engine is designated as the 1200L Plus. The 1200L is an older model.
    The new XP-G model of the 400 (which I assume is the one you are testing) is designated as the 400L Plus. The 400L is an older model.
    "... displays the social skills of a barrel cactus." - TNC

  16. #316
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    Quote Originally Posted by Titus Maximus View Post
    Francois,

    A note on Dinotte nomenclature:

    The dual quad XP-G light engine is designated as the 1200L Plus. The 1200L is an older model.
    The new XP-G model of the 400 (which I assume is the one you are testing) is designated as the 400L Plus. The 400L is an older model.
    I'll fix my descriptions. I have the latest ones I'm sure.

    fc

  17. #317
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    Quote Originally Posted by gocycling View Post
    Francois,

    Thanks for doing all these test -- they have been very helpful and I know that it is a lot of work.

    I have a question, for the Exposure lights, like the Diablo and Toro, the 2012 numbers are lower than the 2011 numbers. For example, the Diablo is listed as 59 lux for 2012 while last year it was listed as 63.

    Could this be due to the new Intelligent Thermal Management system that Exposure added this year. It is supposed to reduce the light level if the light heats up. During testing, was there any airflow over the lights?

    Thanks.
    Wow, that makes sense. I'll to Exposure about this. Maybe it's too intelligent

    The lights in the Mtbr Lux Measurement are measured within 3 seconds of turning them on.

    At the lumens measurement in SLO, we had an air conditioning duct pointed at the light during the 3 minute test.

    fc

  18. #318
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Huston View Post
    I too am waiting for this review, however I think I heard in one of the videos that this light takes forever to recharge. So for me, I output is just one deciding factor, durability, form factor, ease of use, all come into play.

    - Roger
    It take's 24 hours to charge the six pack unless Exposure made a change for 2012.

  19. #319
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    Quote Originally Posted by francois View Post
    Wow, that makes sense. I'll to Exposure about this. Maybe it's too intelligent

    The lights in the Mtbr Lux Measurement are measured within 3 seconds of turning them on.

    At the lumens measurement in SLO, we had an air conditioning duct pointed at the light during the 3 minute test.

    fc
    Thanks Francois. Given that the 2011 Diablo is rated at 900 lumens and the 2012 is rated at 975 lumens, I'm sure that Exposure would be interested in what happened :-) (BTW, I have the 2011 Diablo and find, at you did, that it really is a great light).

    -w

  20. #320
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    But, as you note, that looks the Exposure Diablo comes in at about where the Piko 3 does which is 750 lumens. I thought that Exposure bumped up the diablo by 30% from last year to this year - which would account for it being 900 some lumens. So, Francois - are your numbers wrong, get some lights mixed up with results or is the Diablo really only a 750 lumen light? I'm confused.

    J.

  21. #321
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    Perhaps this shootout has become so important to the industry where a more precise lux measurement test is in order for 2013?
    Last edited by RTM; 10-17-2011 at 07:38 AM.
    "The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of a low price is forgotten." - Benjamin Franklin

  22. #322
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    Quote Originally Posted by gocycling View Post
    Thanks Francois. Given that the 2011 Diablo is rated at 900 lumens and the 2012 is rated at 975 lumens, I'm sure that Exposure would be interested in what happened :-) (BTW, I have the 2011 Diablo and find, at you did, that it really is a great light).

    -w
    We have to keep in mind that 975/900 is only an 8% increase.
    Aside from the fact that you'd never notice the difference between 900 and 975 from identical optics, CREE also states that they "maintain a tolerance of +/-7% on flux and power measurements..." So, while odd, the discrepancy is certainly not out of the realm of possibility. Any number of other factors could have also contributed to the lower measurement this year. JFWIW

  23. #323
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    Allo Fracois!

    I see some flashlight type lights are included this year. I would humbly recommend the Zebralight SC600 for the comparison. It is not a true bike light, but it can do a sustained 500lm for 2 hrs, with a 750 lm turbo mode for staring down mountain lions. The beam pattern is wonderful for a helmet light. I did most of my summer pre-dawn rides with this diminutive light zip-tied to the top of my helmet. After the ride, I snipped it off and dropped it in my pocket, for use at my job the rest of the day. As an all-around light it is an amazing value. Well, as long as you already have some 18650 cells and a charger around.

    gerG
    ...uphill uphill uphill DOWNHILL! uphill uphill uphill uphill DOWNHILL! uphill ...

  24. #324
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRMOLE View Post
    I've considered a light hood before for different reasons (blinding other riders, pedistrians, drivers, etc.) and am interested in how much wasted lite you reclaimed. Your opinion would be appreciated. Also is your fabricated reflector flat or form-fitted to the lens shape?
    Basically mine is made from cut - thin cardboard which I then covered with electrical tape to repeal moisture.. it is held on using electrical tape as well. The light is a K-Lite 3-XPG R5 which is sold on-line from Ozzie-land. The hood works very well and makes the mid-mode much more usable. Some of the light which normally would go up into the trees is reflected down to the ground. Next year I will try to make the upper black rim around optic reflective as well. The way I figure it every little bit helps.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 2012 Mtbr Lights Shootout.-lighthood.jpg  

    2012 Mtbr Lights Shootout.-lighthood1.jpg  


  25. #325
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    I have soooo much data that my Ipad is going to explode

    I'll start releasing some stuff on this thread today. I'd like you guys to help me analyze it and help me draw som conclusions and parameters.

    Make me some cool graphs too.

    fc

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