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  1. #276
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulRivers View Post
    There was a debate earlier in the thread, I just think that in my experience the light head ended up to far down, I think it's meant to be pointed up somewhat further, even if that does leave a larger dark gap in front of the bike. I mean these are just my thoughts, but recently I've been tuning the position of my Lumotec Cyo another shaped beam light and that has been the best light position - for commuting. I just think if it was pointed a little bit more up it will light up further down the trail in this pic.

    I certainly don't expect Francois to go back and reshoot it or anything though.

    As Francois said in his review, I don't think that a shaped beam light by itself would be good for mountain biking. It could be good in combination with a headlamp that would illuminate stuff like low hanging branches though (as Francois mentioned).
    Correct. On the commuter, lower-powered lights, I'm aiming them lower on the trail photos. The reason is their throw is not that far and the light just gets lost.

    I'm aiming them at the orange sheet 100 feet on the left of the trail. There is another green sheet on the 200 foot mark.

    I just got this light called the Cateye Econom Force. It is very similar to the Saferide as it has a very controlled beam pattern. It is square!!

    Here's the latest photos:
    Cateye Econom Force
    Philips Saferide

    fc
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 2012 Mtbr Lights Shootout.-img_2110.jpg  

    2012 Mtbr Lights Shootout.-img_2133.jpg  


  2. #277
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    Quote Originally Posted by djembe975 View Post
    What happened to the CygoLite lights? Did they back out last minute? It would be nice if they included their Expillion 400 cordless style along with the Turbo 740 as they seem like solid choices for the price.
    They are pending. They are sending the Expilion 350 and a TridenX 750..

    There a bunch more lights coming too. I just got Hope and Tiny Sun Lights.

    fc

  3. #278
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    Quote Originally Posted by g8trtim View Post
    Sorry for my ignorance, I just stumbled across this thread for the first time. Will this information and results turn into a spreadsheet or database so we can pinpoint the best light for specific requirements/categories? I looked at the 2012 Bike Lights Shootout page and this test is fantastic and appears to be very thorough!
    Yes, I will release the spreadsheet to this group. You guys always make nice graphs and calculations for me.

    Also, proofread my stuff for errors. It's much appreciated.

    fc

  4. #279
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    Quote Originally Posted by francois View Post
    They are pending. They are sending the Expilion 350 and a TridenX 750..

    There a bunch more lights coming too. I just got Hope and Tiny Sun Lights.

    fc
    Try to get them to send you at least the 400 instead and the Turbo 740.

  5. #280
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    Finally! The new light shoutout. Was waiting a couple weeks for this. Thanks.


    Oh and one thing: Philips is actually an old Dutch electronics company (from 1891). They started as a light company later on made all kinds of electronics Came up with some innovations, for instance the Compact Disc.

  6. #281
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    I dont get why everyone is worried about the cutoff for commuting lights. I ran 2 niterider minewt 600 on highs on street commutes. I got a small strip of 3M black tape($2 industrial version from home depot not the cheap 0.99 ones) and placed it over the top part of the light to cut off the spill and not blind drivers. Because the tape can handle high temps there was no melting. The tape did not block the spot light just the small amount of spill that blinds on coming traffic.

  7. #282
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    Quote Originally Posted by anekin007 View Post
    I dont get why everyone is worried about the cutoff for commuting lights. I ran 2 niterider minewt 600 on highs on street commutes. I got a small strip of 3M black tape($2 industrial version from home depot not the cheap 0.99 ones) and placed it over the top part of the light to cut off the spill and not blind drivers. Because the tape can handle high temps there was no melting. The tape did not block the spot light just the small amount of spill that blinds on coming traffic.
    I'm with you... sort of. With judicious power management and aiming of a non-shaped beam, you can easily ride in traffic at night with plenty of light on the road to see your way without blinding on-coming traffic. If I happen to "stick out" a bit more than the typical car headlight, I'm totally OK with that. Anything that draws attention without being dangerous is a good thing in my opinion.

    The "tape over the top half" trick only really works if you're blocking the direct line of sight to the emitter itself. So you probably need to block just a little more than the top half. Even better than just the tape would be a small mirror, or even smooth aluminum foil. This would have the effect of reflecting back a good portion of the light, and if the light is using a parabolic reflector, it would be re-directed out the bottom half, essentially what the Philips is doing, only with a much bigger reflector with a compound shape. But then again, considering the output lost doing this, you might be just as well off to cut the light's total power output (if possible) and re-aiming for slightly less throw. Just IMO.

  8. #283
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    NiteBiker, that's a very useful photo of the Philips' spread. Apparently the dim foreground isn't a concern, as you've suggested. Bodes well for overhead illumination, but I'm still wary, from a safety standpoint. Nothing against Philips. Anyone conscientious and patient enough to put out a dynamo light gets big props.

    I think I just have a dark screen.

    Wonder how to get the photos to reveal more of the beam's dynamic range, as in the photo NiteBiker found.

  9. #284
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    The videos show up here first:

    MtbrVideos's Channel - YouTube

  10. #285
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    Francois,

    For future reference, apparently there's a setting in the Nikon D7000 called Active D-Lighting (ADL). This underexposes when the highlights will be blown out, and it's on by default.

    If you're looking for a way to show the details of a light beam that may be too underexposed (like the periphery of the Philips SafeRide beam), you'd want to do the following:

    1) Turn ADL off.
    2) Set Contrast to Neutral or Low.
    3) Shoot the first / brightest lamp with manual exposure, overexposing it to some extent.
    4) Use the same settings for the rest of the lamps. They'll expose less and less terrain the lower the lux you're reading for them, but it might be a little bit easier to see what's being illuminated around the dimly lit edges.

    If I get any other advice, I'll re-edit this particular reply of this thread, so it's not scattered.

    I have no interest in seeing you re-shoot, just some insights for next year. Hope this is helpful.

  11. #286
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    Quote Originally Posted by a.k.a. View Post
    Francois,

    For future reference, apparently there's a setting in the Nikon D7000 called Active D-Lighting (ADL). This underexposes when the highlights will be blown out, and it's on by default.

    If you're looking for a way to show the details of a light beam that may be too underexposed (like the periphery of the Philips SafeRide beam), you'd want to do the following:

    1) Turn ADL off.
    2) Set Contrast to Neutral or Low.
    3) Shoot the first / brightest lamp with manual exposure, overexposing it to some extent.
    4) Use the same settings for the rest of the lamps. They'll expose less and less terrain the lower the lux you're reading for them, but it might be a little bit easier to see what's being illuminated around the dimly lit edges.

    If I get any other advice, I'll re-edit this particular reply of this thread, so it's not scattered.

    I have no interest in seeing you re-shoot, just some insights for next year. Hope this is helpful.
    I believe he uses a fixed set of exposure settings so that there is some basis for comparison between pictures.

    Besides that, digital photography will not accurately portray the differences from high to low light levels and therefore the true character of the beam. A digital camera can see about 5-6 f/stops of light (light doublings) and your eye sees 20-21 f/stops of light - many times more resolution from light to dark.

    J.

  12. #287
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnJ80 View Post
    I believe he uses a fixed set of exposure settings so that there is some basis for comparison between pictures.

    Besides that, digital photography will not accurately portray the differences from high to low light levels and therefore the true character of the beam. A digital camera can see about 5-6 f/stops of light (light doublings) and your eye sees 20-21 f/stops of light - many times more resolution from light to dark.

    J.
    Correct. I don't want any post-processing. I may try shooting with another camera and in raw formats.

    fc

  13. #288
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    Raw probably won't make much difference. Best thing would be one of the very newest DSLRs with the highest sensitivity ISO. It's just that the human eye is so much more sensitive and we are talking about seriously bright lights here.

    J.

  14. #289
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    By the way, John, the D7000 currently has the highest dynamic-range sensor going in the 35mm format DSLR world -- coming in at 14 f-stops, according to DxOMark It is equipped with the same sensor as Nikon's top-of-the-line D9000. The only thing it ain't got is a full-frame 35mm sensor, like the D3 series.

    No need to hunt for a better camera, Francois. You have THE sweetest camera of the DSLR world.

  15. #290
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    Right. But it still doesn't have the dynamic range to properly show a beam. You get an idea of shape of the hot spot but the light fall off from hot to edge of the beam won't be representative of the actual beam. The hot spot is pretty easy to see and to determine how well it works, but the fall off from the center (spill) is a huge deal for night riding and that's what you miss with digital photography.

    AND those measurements of the performance of the camera are typically not even close to what you can get in real use. So, it comes back down to a tiny fraction of what the human eye can see very quickly and we're right back to the point that the beam shots beyond about 600 lumens are really not all that accurate and are misleading.

    j.

  16. #291
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    Are there any sources for the Phillips lights with US plugs? I like this for the part of my commute that has heavy bike traffic.

  17. #292
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    deleted...carry on!
    "The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of a low price is forgotten." - Benjamin Franklin

  18. #293
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    Quote Originally Posted by lou2uanme View Post
    Lupine website says the Betty 2600 is 460 grams (1.01lbs) and has a 7.5 amp hour Li-Ion battery. Cost $930

    Niterider website says Pro 3000 is 812 grams (1.79lbs) and has a 11.6 amp hour Li-Ion battery.
    Cost $700.

    The Niterider Pro 3000 battery has 4.1 amp hours more capacity than the Betty. That is a lot more battery capacity for 3/4 pound more in weight.

    I'm not sure if the website info is accurate or if the weights include mounts or not but that is what is posted.


    I'd prefer to get a higher capacity battery and brighter light and at $230 cheaper....... 3 reasons to get the NR Pro 3000 over the lighter weight Betty 2600
    Until you look at the build quality of a Lupine. (And I have been with Niterider for 15 years when they were starting out with NiCad batteries.) Get what you like and need, but imho there is NO comparison in overall quality between NR and Lupine, the latter beats them in every manner.


    Mikey

  19. #294
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    Hey FC

    The Serfas true 500 looks like a nice product but I was wondering what you thought of the helmet mount as that's what I would use it for. I like the idea that I can replace the battery on the trail and 18650 are cheap so I could carry several.

    Thx

    MB

  20. #295
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    Maximus,

    What, didn't you re-read all 6 pages of this thread in toto? : )

    See this reply. It has the links and pricing for the Philips. Let us know if you get one.
    2012 Mtbr Lights Shootout.

  21. #296
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeyonthemadone View Post
    Until you look at the build quality of a Lupine. (And I have been with Niterider for 15 years when they were starting out with NiCad batteries.) Get what you like and need, but imho there is NO comparison in overall quality between NR and Lupine, the latter beats them in every manner.


    Mikey

    Lupine has these new hardcase batteries with a fuel guage. They are impressive. This one is 11.2 amp and powers the Betty at high for 3 hours 20 min.

    Here's the Niterider 3000 system weight for comparison.

    fc
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 2012 Mtbr Lights Shootout.-img_2228.jpg  

    2012 Mtbr Lights Shootout.-img_2229.jpg  

    2012 Mtbr Lights Shootout.-img_2230.jpg  


  22. #297
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    Quote Originally Posted by mb323323 View Post
    Hey FC

    The Serfas true 500 looks like a nice product but I was wondering what you thought of the helmet mount as that's what I would use it for. I like the idea that I can replace the battery on the trail and 18650 are cheap so I could carry several.

    Thx

    MB
    The helmet mount looks good. Good plastics and the light can be aimed up and down without moving mount.

    fc
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 2012 Mtbr Lights Shootout.-img_2232.jpg  


  23. #298
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    Quote Originally Posted by francois View Post
    Also, proofread my stuff for errors. It's much appreciated.

    fc
    On this page http://reviews.mtbr.com/2012-bike-lights-shootout the Dinotte 400L should be $209.
    "The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of a low price is forgotten." - Benjamin Franklin

  24. #299
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnJ80 View Post
    Besides that, digital photography will not accurately portray the differences from high to low light levels and therefore the true character of the beam. A digital camera can see about 5-6 f/stops of light (light doublings) and your eye sees 20-21 f/stops of light - many times more resolution from light to dark.

    J.
    That's called "dynamic range", and all digital cameras are not the same when it comes to it. A modern dslr is better than a modern compact, but they do make improvements in the amount of dynamic range a camera can see. Currently Nikon d5100 / d7000 / Sony a55 are the best for dynamic range in the "dslr you can remotely afford" category (ie under $2500), but I believe they are more like 8 stops per dpreview -
    Nikon D5100 Review: 14. Dynamic Range: Digital Photography Review

    Though the pics from above appear to all be taken with a Canon g9 compact, right Francois?

  25. #300
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    wow is a lupine piko realy only 30 dolars more than the exposure diablo. here in the uk the piko is twice the price

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