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  1. #1
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    2012 BAJA DESIGNS double stryker

    Got a call from Shanon that the new prototype was ready to run and I had a night dh race coming up (predator night dh race) so this was the perfect opportunity of high speed, pitch black on alot of the course and adrenaline to see if it could hang and not get lost in the corners shadows etc.
    All went well ran 3 practice runs got the lights dialed and leveled to what angle worked best.
    Figured I'd ride conservatively get a good clean fast run and try to put it all together, came in faster than I thought on the corners had 2 big laid out sideways bar dragging drifts in the corners lofted the rock drop and pinned the run out from the top to the fire road with very little pedalling. ( I don't pedal I try to keep speed to avoid any more exercise than needed lol)

    The lights stomp on the originals with no hot spots the dual stryker is insane and as soon as I have some shots from the race I will post them.

    Got first place in cat 1 (expert) by 3+ seconds with very little peddaling, the lights allowed me to see the course and not slow down. Others had lights and there were black areas, specifically a massive g-out that had rocks in the bottom. Came in and out so hot I aired the backside into berm and rock drop. Not 1 time did I come close to outrunning the light or feeling like I couldn't focus with depth and peripheral vision.

    The mount is the mount to end all others NO MOVEMENT, LIGHT, EASY TO INSTALL and asthetically pleasing. I did have to put a wingnut on it as this was pre production but it worked amazing. It drew ALOT of attention on the hill and in the pits especially during practice.

    Weight of the light is minimal I'll weight it later but I'd say lighter than the stryker and way Brighter the new leds have have good color and solid output.

    Weight w/out mount 139g (I'll post weightnshotnin a few)







    Last edited by bullcrew; 08-22-2011 at 10:20 PM.
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    On my best day twenty years ago with a bear and cougar on my tail i couldn't do what you just did bullcrew so congratulations are in order.

    The duel Stryker looks amazing and cant wait for production models to be available. do you have battery specs yet,the amount of cells , and est run times? The new mount looks as bullit proof as the lights Bajadesigns builds.It's good to hear such a good first review from someone who put it threw it's paces, thanx for taking the time to do this review, oh,,,,,,, and the light looks sweet on your ride!!

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by indebt View Post
    On my best day twenty years ago with a bear and cougar on my tail i couldn't do what you just did bullcrew so congratulations are in order.

    The duel Stryker looks amazing and cant wait for production models to be available. do you have battery specs yet,the amount of cells , and est run times? The new mount looks as bullit proof as the lights Bajadesigns builds.It's good to hear such a good first review from someone who put it threw it's paces, thanx for taking the time to do this review, oh,,,,,,, and the light looks sweet on your ride!!
    Lol I got lost in the woods in northern Idaho and between bears and Canadian wolves I was trying to fly down the mountain. So in all fairness its alot easier to flow without self preservation and thoughts of being eaten filling your head.

    I'll get all the specs on them and post it with weights etc. Should be close to actuall production so don't anchor it in concrete as absolute I'm sure it will vary slightly on weight.
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    Terrific job on the win Bullcrew! Glad to see the IH is still serving you well.

    Thanks for sharing the pics and feedback. Looking forward to the update.

  5. #5
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    The first strykr is still a bad ass light. This thing is just ridiculous. I can't wait to see one in person. Alan keeps engineering light awesomeness. Wonder if they will have a IR version to do some stealth runs with.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bajamike View Post
    The first strykr is still a bad ass light. This thing is just ridiculous. I can't wait to see one in person. Alan keeps engineering light awesomeness. Wonder if they will have a IR version to do some stealth runs with.
    Agread that the originals are bad@$$ this thing is just plain monstrous.
    I still have my original and love it works great diving for lobster any brighter would wash out in the water not too mention it kills it on the trails ive done some fast night rides and drops with it with NO issues.
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  7. #7
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    Good job Bullcrew, thank you for representing us so well. As far as specifics go the Double Stryk pumps out more than 1800 lumens (we are just humble ) but it's not quite 2k - we don't round up at Ye Olde Baja Designs. All of our systems next year will be utilizing the same battery and charger as the 2011 lights, the battery is small, lightweight, watertight, and as tough as the rest of the system. We want everything to remain compatible.

    That sweet new mount will be coming stock with the $449 Double Stryk. It will be optional for the 2012 Baja Designs Strykr II and Strykr SL.

    I laid out all of the specifics on the new lights on a thread on the DIY light forum. I'd expound but right now I am writing while standing in the chow line up at Camp Roberts - I am doing my National Guard annual training.

    Again, congrats Bullcrew, you crazy fast guy you! So how did the Strykr SL mounted on your helmet work?

    Shannon

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    Sorry Shannon i must be blind, i checked the DIY and couldn't find your thread. Do you have a date of the post, or better yet the title?Cheers!!!

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    Weight added to first post. 139g without mount.
    I'll throw some comparison shots to the stryker and pro tonight before the light goes back and I cry out of control till they become available.
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    LOL, i would as well bullcrew. BajaDesigns i believe have a home run here, Shannon says the 1800 lumen claim is conservative, and if that's otf lumens, it is well worth the price despite one's crticism. That puts it up there with my Betty at half the price.

  11. #11
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    Construction is amazing waterproof shock proof all the good stuff but brighter than ever.
    I'll post up action pics in a bit as well.
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  12. #12
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    Hey Indebt,

    I will try to find that thread for you, I am not sure where it even began, I will check when I get a chance. I kind of just have to jump on here real quick when I get a chance between training. I'll find it ASAP and let you know where it's at brother.

    Shannon

  13. #13
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    Couple of better pics up.
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    Hey Indebt,

    That thread is in this forum under something like "Baja Designs lights for 2012" it is one of the first threads currently.

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    Thanx Shannon, i'll have another look. Cheers!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by bullcrew View Post
    Construction is amazing waterproof shock proof all the good stuff but brighter than ever.
    I'll post up action pics in a bit as well.
    Compared to the dual original Strykers you had on your Canfield, (if I recall correctly, you were using 1 wide and 1 spot reflector) how different would you rate the new Dbl Stryk, being that they are also using a similar reflector setup?

  17. #17
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    A friend brought his single Stryker for some night enduro riding this past weekend as a helmet mounted unit to compliment his stator-driven head light.

    The BajaDesigns unit puts many others to shame be it mountain bike or dirt bike.

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    The current lights are awesome, but wait until you lads see the 2012 lights...

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    Quote Originally Posted by BajaDesignsShannon View Post
    The current lights are awesome, but wait until you lads see the 2012 lights...
    Shannon, do you know the battery specs? I didn't see anything on the site.

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    Hey Cromagftw, the battery that will be used on the Baja Designs Double Strykr is the same that our current systems are using. All of the connectors are the same and everything is compatible.

    As far as burntime goes; at full blast you'll get 1:30, half way you'll get 3:00, and on low it'll get 6:00. We may build an accessory battery that would be slightly larger for more burn time, but that really will be determined by demand. The system also has a flasher mode for commuting or signaling rescue aircraft, that setting lasts for 30hrs.

    Generally speaking most people won't (or will they??...) run around with almost 2k lumens scorching the ground and causing PTSD in nocturnal animals. I find myself in Low while climbing (500 lumens-ish) and Medium (900+ lumens) most of the time. I bump it on High for descents and showing off. The cool thing is that with the dual optic setup the light is better at putting those lumens on the trail as you have a spot and a wide angle lens working for you no matter what brightness setting you happen to be in.

    Hopefully that answers your question, let me know what else you are curious about.

    Shannon

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    Quote Originally Posted by BajaDesignsShannon View Post
    Hopefully that answers your question, let me know what else you are curious about.

    Shannon

    Shannon, thanks for that, yep it sounds good for sure.

    But I was actually referring to voltage and amps specs on the adventure battery ... can you recall what they are mate?

    Since on the topic of run times, can you please share what the run times are like for the StrykrII and StrykrSL? Would it be fair to assume 2x as long compared with identical modes of the Dbl Stryk? Are modes equated to the following?:

    High = 100%
    Mid = 50%
    Low = 25%
    Last edited by Chromagftw; 09-07-2011 at 06:55 AM.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by BajaDesignsShannon View Post
    I bump it on High for descents and showing off.
    For me, 400 Lumens would be showing off. But I like to gravitate toward efficiency and minimalism. I'd be riding a hardtail single speed if I thought I could get away with it (and I can't).

    But that's for the mountain bike I'd be all over it... especially for a helmet mounted light. For the main light I'd go with any number of high-output Baja Designs or Trail Tech systems.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZRickD View Post
    For me, 400 Lumens would be showing off. But I like to gravitate toward efficiency and minimalism. I'd be riding a hardtail single speed if I thought I could get away with it (and I can't).

    But that's for the mountain bike I'd be all over it... especially for a helmet mounted light. For the main light I'd go with any number of high-output Baja Designs or Trail Tech systems.
    Different strokes. I do ride a rigid singlespeed but soon it'll be with well over 2000 lumen on high. I find that I need far better lighting for riding in the dark with rigid than I did with full suspension. Riding FS in the dark I found that small things I could just roll over without issue, but the rigid is far less forgiving, and I need to see everything, far more so than with FS.

    YMMV.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZRickD View Post
    For me, 400 Lumens would be showing off. But I like to gravitate toward efficiency and minimalism.
    that isn't really efficiency though, it's just not seeing where you're going

    I could (and have) ride with 400lm, but I'd be very slow, I'd crash constantly and I'd have a bit of a crap time, all for saving ~400g. Or I could ride with 3000+, not be slow, crash only occasionally and have a great time, all the time not noticing the ~400g of extra weight I'm carrying.

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    Its been progression for me all the way. I would have saved bundles if I skipped the in between purchases and went with the best and most powerful at the time.

    Planet Bike super Flashes ---> Fenix LD20s ---> Magicshines, Geminis, BikeRays --->Dinottes ---> BajaDesigns (?) ---> Lupines (?)

    Do it right the 1st time within your given budget.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chromagftw View Post
    Shannon, thanks for that, yep it sounds good for sure.

    But I was actually referring to voltage and amps specs on the adventure battery ... can you recall what they are mate?

    Since on the topic of run times, can you please share what the run times are like for the StrykrII and StrykrSL? Would it be fair to assume 2x as long compared with identical modes of the Dbl Stryk? Are modes equated to the following?:

    High = 100%
    Mid = 50%
    Low = 25%
    Yep, the Strykr II and the Strykr SL will get twice as much on all of their various settings.

    As far as the specifics on the battery...well...please understand that I have landed on my head numerous times so remembering things is not my greatest strength. I will find out exactly what all of those numbers are and I'll get back with you.

    I did just find out something very interesting about the Baja Designs Strykr II, the current Strykr puts out 52 Lux according the MTBR and our own light meter (we have the same one), the new Strykr II pumps out 82 Lux! That's roughly a 47% increase in output, yikes! (even I am surprised by that) The 2011 Strykr was, and is, a great light, but WOW!
    Attached Files Attached Files

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    Quote Originally Posted by BajaDesignsShannon View Post
    the current Strykr puts out 52 Lux according the MTBR and our own light meter (we have the same one), the new Strykr II pumps out 82 Lux! That's roughly a 47% increase in output, yikes! (even I am surprised by that) The 2011 Strykr was, and is, a great light, but WOW!
    I know your lights are better than your math, that's a 57.69% increase.
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    Quote Originally Posted by randyharris View Post
    I know your lights are better than your math, that's a 57.69% increase.
    Haaahhh!! I am a Marine...

    You know the funny thing is that I figured that out when I talked about it on the Facebook page...d'oh!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by BajaDesignsShannon View Post
    I did just find out something very interesting about the Baja Designs Strykr II, the current Strykr puts out 52 Lux according the MTBR and our own light meter (we have the same one), the new Strykr II pumps out 82 Lux! That's roughly a 47% increase in output, yikes! (even I am surprised by that) The 2011 Strykr was, and is, a great light, but WOW!
    Wow Shannon that is amazing, Any chance you guy's tested the double strykr ?

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    I love the way the double stryker looks. Rather small and compact and it seems it punches out so much light. Tell us when is it being released!! I'd like to know more about it.

    From the pictures, it looks like it uses a dual reflector. Is this true? What are the beam shots like!

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    Quote Originally Posted by SoCalNomadRider View Post
    Wow Shannon that is amazing, Any chance you guy's tested the double strykr ?
    We haven't tested the Double Stryk just yet, I can't wait to see what that system puts out. I actually was mistaken with the Strykr II, it actually has 57.69% more Lux than the 2010-11 Strykr. Crazy, eh?? As soon as I have the numbers for you I will let you know.

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    Any deals on the 2011 Strykers? I just bought one the other week and love it. Been riding almost every night. Need to buy another this week or at least an additional battery for an upcoming event. Before I spend full pop I figured nothing to lose by asking.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevoo View Post
    Any deals on the 2011 Strykers? I just bought one the other week and love it. Been riding almost every night. Need to buy another this week or at least an additional battery for an upcoming event. Before I spend full pop I figured nothing to lose by asking.
    Yep, we do some deals Stevoo. Email me at Shannon@BajaDesigns.com and I'll give you the skinny, or at least get you the spare battery that you are needing.

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    double strykr specs

    I just read a review of the double stryker on bikeradar.com. the article claims it puts out 1800 lumens but they also say it uses cree xp-g leds which according to CREE themselves are only good for 460 or so each so what gives? Somebody is confused or somebody is lieing.

    Ed

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    Quote Originally Posted by edllorca View Post
    I just read a review of the double stryker on bikeradar.com. the article claims it puts out 1800 lumens but they also say it uses cree xp-g leds which according to CREE themselves are only good for 460 or so each so what gives? Somebody is confused or somebody is lieing.

    Ed
    Somebody is confused. They are XML's...
    baker

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    Quote Originally Posted by edllorca View Post
    I just read a review of the double stryker on bikeradar.com. the article claims it puts out 1800 lumens but they also say it uses cree xp-g leds which according to CREE themselves are only good for 460 or so each so what gives? Somebody is confused or somebody is lieing.

    Ed
    Hi Ed,

    The Double Stryk actually pumps out slightly more than 1800 Lumens but we are trying to be humble. It actually runs T6 Bin Cree XM-L Leds not XP-G's like the review states. We are not pushing them to their max of 1000 Lumens as we feel it could diminish their longevity so we are running them at roughly 925 each. According to Francis here on MTBR.com the Double Stryk is cranking out 150 Lux - a very bright light - and with the wide and spot reflector we are running the system is quite effective even when run in the lower wattage settings.

    Hopefully that clears up the confusion, let me know what other questions you may have.

    Shannon

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    Quote Originally Posted by baker View Post
    Somebody is confused. They are XML's...
    You, Sir, are correct. They are indeed XM-L's...anything less is uncivilized.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BajaDesignsShannon View Post
    Hi Ed,

    The Double Stryk actually pumps out slightly more than 1800 Lumens but we are trying to be humble. It actually runs T6 Bin Cree XM-L Leds not XP-G's like the review states. We are not pushing them to their max of 1000 Lumens as we feel it could diminish their longevity so we are running them at roughly 925 each. According to Francis here on MTBR.com the Double Stryk is cranking out 150 Lux - a very bright light - and with the wide and spot reflector we are running the system is quite effective even when run in the lower wattage settings.

    Hopefully that clears up the confusion, let me know what other questions you may have.

    Shannon
    This lumen/drive-level thing is tricky business. Not trying to detract from the design (I like it a lot), but even at 925 lumens, you're driving these things right on the hairy edge.

    Cree calls out a minimum flux rating of 280 for the XML T6 at 700mA.
    They also specify a tolerance of +/-7%, so just for fun let's split the difference to the high side and say each LED is putting out 280 + 3.5% = 290 lumens at 700mA.

    The absolute maximum drive current is 3 amps and carries with it a lumen multiplication factor of 3.25 over and above the 700mA level.

    So very optimistically, the maximum theoretical output from one LED would be:
    290*3.25 = 942.5 lumens.

    From an LED on the lower end of the specification you have:
    280*3.25 = 910 lumens.

    So in reality, 925 lumens would be at or very close to the absolute theoretical limit for an average sampling of these devices.

    Subtract roughly 20% for heating and optics losses and a realistic absolute maximum out-the-front lumen rating would be closer to:
    925*0.8 = 740 per LED.

    It's a great light, no question about it, but it did seem like there needed to be some clarification on the maximum capabilities of the XML. The 1000 lumens per LED is pretty much a XML-myth, unless you slightly over-drive the device. And at 10 WATTS per LED, I'm not sure I want to be over-driving them.

    http://www.cree.com/products/pdf/xlampxm-l.pdf

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    Quote Originally Posted by pethelman View Post
    This lumen/drive-level thing is tricky business. Not trying to detract from the design (I like it a lot), but even at 925 lumens, you're driving these things right on the hairy edge.

    Cree calls out a minimum flux rating of 280 for the XML T6 at 700mA.
    They also specify a tolerance of +/-7%, so just for fun let's split the difference to the high side and say each LED is putting out 280 + 3.5% = 290 lumens at 700mA.

    The absolute maximum drive current is 3 amps and carries with it a lumen multiplication factor of 3.25 over and above the 700mA level.

    So very optimistically, the maximum theoretical output from one LED would be:
    290*3.25 = 942.5 lumens.

    From an LED on the lower end of the specification you have:
    280*3.25 = 910 lumens.

    So in reality, 925 lumens would be at or very close to the absolute theoretical limit for an average sampling of these devices.

    Subtract roughly 20% for heating and optics losses and a realistic absolute maximum out-the-front lumen rating would be closer to:
    925*0.8 = 740 per LED.

    It's a great light, no question about it, but it did seem like there needed to be some clarification on the maximum capabilities of the XML. The 1000 lumens per LED is pretty much a XML-myth, unless you slightly over-drive the device. And at 10 WATTS per LED, I'm not sure I want to be over-driving them.

    http://www.cree.com/products/pdf/xlampxm-l.pdf
    Hah! Well there you go, very nice Pethelman, good stuff. Sounds like it's a good thing we have an effective thermal regulator, an tough aluminum housing to help radiate the heat away from the electronics, and best of all a life-time warranty on the light head and everything inside of it, eh?

    Wait a second...so what you are saying is...is that other light companies claims of 1000 lumens out of a single XM-L is...not completely accurate??

    Shannon
    Last edited by Baja Designs; 10-28-2011 at 12:50 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BajaDesignsShannon View Post
    Wait a second...so what you are saying is...is that other light companies claims of 1000 lumens out of a single XM-L is...not completely accurate??

    Shannon
    I know... shocking.
    Obviously you guys are pros when it comes to light designs. And when you have a well-designed light that fills a need in the market, then you can let the "other" guys duke it out with inflated lumen claims while your product speaks for itself. It's frustrating though to see how many manufacturers have jumped into this niche' market with no real standards to speak of. Trying to compete in the post-Magicshine bike light era has definitely presented some challenges.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pethelman View Post
    I know... shocking.
    Obviously you guys are pros when it comes to light designs. And when you have a well-designed light that fills a need in the market, then you can let the "other" guys duke it out with inflated lumen claims while your product speaks for itself. It's frustrating though to see how many manufacturers have jumped into this niche' market with no real standards to speak of. Trying to compete in the post-Magicshine bike light era has definitely presented some challenges.
    I really liked that page, I liked it so much I posted it up on our Baja Designs Bicycle Lighting FaceBook page. Very informative, my favorite line though was, "Warning: Do not look at exposed lamp in operation. Eye injury can result." Thanks for sending that attachment, very enjoyable reading - although I think it must be written primarily in a Greek dialect that I don't quite understand...

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    Quote Originally Posted by pethelman View Post
    So in reality, 925 lumens would be at or very close to the absolute theoretical limit for an average sampling of these devices.

    Subtract roughly 20% for heating and optics losses and a realistic absolute maximum out-the-front lumen rating would be closer to:
    925*0.8 = 740 per LED.

    http://www.cree.com/products/pdf/xlampxm-l.pdf
    I'll agree that the Baja Designs lights look to be well designed and are definitely something I would put on my bike... and I don't fault them for publishing 'ideal' lumen values as long as they're within the realm of theoretical (which 900 x 2 = 1800 is in the ballpark of).

    It's not like we're talking about some of the ridiculous and outlandish claims of some other suppliers!

    But it also doesn't hurt to be an informed community of light consumers/connoisseurs...

    I also shared a quick chart I made of Francois' LUX measurement vs. LUMEN measurements in the 2012 Light Shootout thread - it appears LUX x 9.7 is a decent predictor of 'real life' lumens.

    So, based on BD Double Strkr 150 LUX rating (a really nice number by the way)... 150 x 9.7 = 1455 Lumens total / 2 = 727.5 lumens per side FWIW.


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    Quote Originally Posted by abacojeff View Post
    I'll agree that the Baja Designs lights look to be well designed and are definitely something I would put on my bike... and I don't fault them for publishing 'ideal' lumen values as long as they're within the realm of theoretical (which 900 x 2 = 1800 is in the ballpark of).

    It's not like we're talking about some of the ridiculous and outlandish claims of some other suppliers!

    But it also doesn't hurt to be an informed community of light consumers/connoisseurs...

    I also shared a quick chart I made of Francois' LUX measurement vs. LUMEN measurements in the 2012 Light Shootout thread - it appears LUX x 9.7 is a decent predictor of 'real life' lumens.

    So, based on BD Double Strkr 150 LUX rating (a really nice number by the way)... 150 x 9.7 = 1455 Lumens total / 2 = 727.5 lumens per side FWIW.

    Lumens = LUX x 9.7 is purely an estimate (edited to remove "totally bogus", which is a bit harsh).

    LUX is light intensity for a given area. Lumens is total light output. LUX will vary greatly depending upon the optics (flood vs spot, for example).
    baker

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    Quote Originally Posted by abacojeff View Post
    So, based on BD Double Strkr 150 LUX rating (a really nice number by the way)... 150 x 9.7 = 1455 Lumens total / 2 = 727.5 lumens per side FWIW.
    Very interesting to see your empirical estimate of 727.5 being so close to my purely number-crunched value of 740. Pretty cool.

    However, I do think that the 10x relationship may tend to fall apart somewhat for the wider angle beams, particularly those that dedicate a portion of their useable lumen output to side lighting, since this may not register well on the "ceiling reflector" test. The Double Strkr has a pretty intense spot beam, so it probably comes out on the high side of the ceiling test.
    Last edited by pethelman; 10-28-2011 at 02:44 PM.

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    Match's excellent test of XM-L output on the budget light forum (using his home made integrated sphere!) shows that even at 5 amps it didn't quite hit 1,000 real lumen, and at 3 amps it's 880 lumens: Results: Testing XM-L, MC-E, and SST-50 emitters up to (and over) 5 amps. | BudgetLightForum.com

    Tim
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 2012 BAJA DESIGNS double stryker-table.jpg  


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    Quote Originally Posted by baker View Post
    Lumens = LUX x 9.7 is purely an estimate (edited to remove "totally bogus", which is a bit harsh).

    LUX is light intensity for a given area. Lumens is total light output. LUX will vary greatly depending upon the optics (flood vs spot, for example).
    Hey Baker,

    I totally understand the point you're trying to bring up, but for the sake of 'discussion' consider 2 points...

    (1) "Lux x 9.7 equates to Lumens" IS purely an estimate, clearly said it was, and the included chart shows the error inherent to the equation. Don't make me calculate the Confidence Intervals banding the linear equation... The correlation coefficient for the 'totally bogus estimate' is very high. As more data comes in from Francois, will the estimate continue to hold up? Probably not, as it looks like the higher powered units may have a slightly lower ratio/relationship. But dude, the graph is very linear... what else do you want?

    (2) The distinction between Lux and Lumens are as you've stated. As you've pointed out they are not the same TYPE of measurement of light output or intensity...

    HOWEVER, you fail to take into account how Francois takes the Lux readings. He does NOT point his Lux meter at a light from x feet away to measure the Lux value (lumens/area... or a type of density function). He takes his Lux measurements indirectly via reflected light in an enclosed room making it a 'crude' type of integrating sphere. This aspect is what makes his Lux reading correlate to the integrating sphere lumen measurements.

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    Quote Originally Posted by abacojeff View Post
    Hey Baker,

    I totally understand the point you're trying to bring up, but for the sake of 'discussion' consider 2 points...

    (1) "Lux x 9.7 equates to Lumens" IS purely an estimate, clearly said it was, and the included chart shows the error inherent to the equation. Don't make me calculate the Confidence Intervals banding the linear equation... The correlation coefficient for the 'totally bogus estimate' is very high. As more data comes in from Francois, will the estimate continue to hold up? Probably not, as it looks like the higher powered units may have a slightly lower ratio/relationship. But dude, the graph is very linear... what else do you want?

    (2) The distinction between Lux and Lumens are as you've stated. As you've pointed out they are not the same TYPE of measurement of light output or intensity...

    HOWEVER, you fail to take into account how Francois takes the Lux readings. He does NOT point his Lux meter at a light from x feet away to measure the Lux value (lumens/area... or a type of density function). He takes his Lux measurements indirectly via reflected light in an enclosed room making it a 'crude' type of integrating sphere. This aspect is what makes his Lux reading correlate to the integrating sphere lumen measurements.
    Excellent point! I didn't realize that is what Francois is doing. That's how I compare lights, too. From my experience, it does give fairly good comparisons of total output.
    baker

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    Quote Originally Posted by pethelman View Post
    Very interesting to see your empirical estimate of 727.5 being so close to my purely number-crunched value of 740. Pretty cool.

    However, I do think that the 10x relationship may tend to fall apart somewhat for the wider angle beams, particularly those that dedicate a portion of their useable lumen output to side lighting, since this may not register well on the "ceiling reflector" test. The Double Strkr has a pretty intense spot beam, so it probably comes out on the high side of the ceiling test.
    Man, this is interesting! You are correct, sometimes the tighter a spot the better a given system will fair on a Lux meter with the ol' ceiling bounce.

    I have said it before, and I'll say it again, these numbers are all neat but they are pretty arbitrary when it actually comes down to how a given system performs out on the trail. The Double Stryk not only projects really well because of the spot reflector, it also has a wide angle reflector that throws light nicely out on your periphery. The color temperature of a given system is also something that should be taken into consideration. Not to mention the waterproofing, mounts, battery, customer service, warranty, etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wombat View Post
    Match's excellent test of XM-L output on the budget light forum (using his home made integrated sphere!) shows that even at 5 amps it didn't quite hit 1,000 real lumen, and at 3 amps it's 880 lumens: Results: Testing XM-L, MC-E, and SST-50 emitters up to (and over) 5 amps. | BudgetLightForum.com

    Tim
    Thanks for the link... interesting reading. Did you see the size of that heatsink!

    As stated in the writeup, you'll never see that amount of thermal mass in a flashlight (or bikelight).

    I've seen a rundown of the decrease in output versus increase in junction temperature but don't have time to reproduce that type of evalution now... but it would be interesting to see how much the 'max' value of 880 lumens would decrease based on typical operating temps in a bike light.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BajaDesignsShannon View Post
    Man, this is interesting! You are correct, sometimes the tighter a spot the better a given system will fair on a Lux meter with the ol' ceiling bounce.

    I have said it before, and I'll say it again, these numbers are all neat but they are pretty arbitrary when it actually comes down to how a given system performs out on the trail. The Double Stryk not only projects really well because of the spot reflector, it also has a wide angle reflector that throws light nicely out on your periphery. The color temperature of a given system is also something that should be taken into consideration. Not to mention the waterproofing, mounts, battery, customer service, warranty, etc.
    I agree! Hopefully nobody misinterprets all the number crunching!

    Bike lights have gotten so much better than they were just a couple of years ago - and nothing said above should take away from the great product Baja Designs (and other reputable companies) have out on the market.

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