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  1. #1
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    1800 lumens on a XML?

    A bunch of my teamates are interested in buy this light :

    1800 Lumen CREE XML T6 LED bike Bicycle Light HeadLight Lamp Flashlight Headlamp | eBay

    Really? 1800 lumens on a single XML and a 6.4 mA. Can somebody give me and advice for them? or go for it?

  2. #2
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    Bogus number. Overstated by 2x. See the datasheet.

    http://www.cree.com/products/pdf/XLampXM-L.pdf

  3. #3
    swag ho Administrator
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    I have that light (a variation of it from same manufacturer). I'll measure it later but that's about a 600-700 lumen light.

    1000 lumens is the theoretical/impossible output so 1800 is an outright lie.

    I wouldn't touch that vendor with a 10 foot pole as they're clearly liberal with the truth.

    fc

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    Quote Originally Posted by francois View Post
    I have that light (a variation of it from same manufacturer). I'll measure it later but that's about a 600-700 lumen light.

    1000 lumens is the theoretical/impossible output so 1800 is an outright lie.

    I wouldn't touch that vendor with a 10 foot pole as they're clearly liberal with the truth.

    fc
    Common sense. 1000 lm your mesure will say how much energy its lost(again theorical), by heat dissipation.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by mochodurazo View Post
    Common sense. 1000 lm your mesure will say how much energy its lost(again theorical), by heat dissipation.
    I believe there's four factors that will hinder it from reaching 1000 lumens:

    - lower grade LEDs. They're call Bins and cheaper ones have no chance of getting 1000.
    - power source. The quality of the power source is critical to getting the max output.
    - electronics - delivering the power to the LED.
    - optics quality and reflector quality. The glass and the mirror will result in lumen loss.
    - heat causes lower outputs and decreases efficiency.

    I'm not an expert on LEDs but these are some of the things I've learned.

    fc

  6. #6
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    for the XMl,...
    some flashlight guys, burned it trough the paces, up to 5A,... to see what it does,...
    well at max current, even for the first 5 sec, you won't get 1000 lumen,
    in lab conditions, maybe you hit 900,...
    for those lights, where it looks like a previous P7 version,...
    they claimed a lots of times 2.8A ,... what was the max for the P7,...
    in real numbers, more like 2.6A,....
    so , if you are lucky, be about 670-710 lumen .
    the old P7 top of the line was about 630 cold, and 565 hot.....

    so , if you like that 1800 number,... just buy 3X of them ,...
    cheers, Rob

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by rschultz101 View Post
    so , if you like that 1800 number,... just buy 3X of them ,...
    cheers, Rob
    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by francois View Post
    I have that light (a variation of it from same manufacturer). I'll measure it later but that's about a 600-700 lumen light.

    1000 lumens is the theoretical/impossible output so 1800 is an outright lie.

    I wouldn't touch that vendor with a 10 foot pole as they're clearly liberal with the truth.

    fc
    1200 is ok though?

    Cough cough


    DIY LED Bike Lights:
    A few Dynamo builds and some Small battery lights

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by kvsitinw View Post
    CREE-XML-T6 LED bike Bicycle Light belongs to XECCON flashlight, which is used as headlamp.
    got the information from that site. the max output can reach up to 1600 lumens.
    Kvsitinw....Please stop promoting these overstated lights from XECCON. This is the 2nd thread I've seen you doing this so I now assume you work for them in some fashion.

    Since you like them so much perhaps you should send a few to Francis to be included in the MTBR light shootout
    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by kvsitinw View Post
    CREE-XML-T6 LED bike Bicycle Light belongs to XECCON flashlight, which is used as headlamp.
    got the information from that site. the max output can reach up to 1600 lumens.
    kvsitinw, you're a shill. If you want to advertise on this forum, buy an advert.

    Oh, and stop lying too

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by znomit View Post
    1200 is ok though?

    Cough cough


    Where'd you find that?

    fc

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by francois View Post
    Where'd you find that?

    fc
    Francois has been testing so many lights he's losing his sight

    It's right on this main light page right hand side.
    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

  13. #13
    RTM
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    It's a slippery slope when you start criticizing SOME light manufacturers for exaggerating claimed lumens. I would say the guy claiming 1800 is actually doing less harm than the same light claiming 1000. You can reasonably brush off the 1800 as a complete farce with even the slightest amount of due diligence. A lot more people could get suckered into buying a 1,000 lumen light that only puts out 600.

    In my opinion there are only two ways to rate these companies. Honest, or liars. This is why Francios' testing really is so important. I have a very high opinion of any company who shows a consistent and justifiable lumen claim:lux reading, and conversely, a very low opinion of those who exaggerate. They all know it's a crucial data point for every consumer, and one most consumers will never be able to verify first hand. So, big props to those companies who are honest and let the truth sell their products.
    "The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of a low price is forgotten." - Benjamin Franklin

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by RTM View Post
    It's a slippery slope when you start criticizing SOME light manufacturers for exaggerating claimed lumens. I would say the guy claiming 1800 is actually doing less harm than the same light claiming 1000. You can reasonably brush off the 1800 as a complete farce with even the slightest amount of due diligence. A lot more people could get suckered into buying a 1,000 lumen light that only puts out 600.

    In my opinion there are only two ways to rate these companies. Honest, or liars. This is why Francios' testing really is so important. I have a very high opinion of any company who shows a consistent and justifiable lumen claim:lux reading, and conversely, a very low opinion of those who exaggerate. They all know it's a crucial data point for every consumer, and one most consumers will never be able to verify first hand. So, big props to those companies who are honest and let the truth sell their products.
    Good points.

    It's a slippery slope but we have traction control.

    Most manufacturers overstate by 20-30%. So anything with triple digit exaggeration should get a time out.

    fc

  15. #15
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    from my point of view, if a manufacturer quotes the theoretical output (say, 900lm for a P7 D-bin) that's excusable, if misleading. Lots and lots of bike light companies do that and, however much it might be wrong, it's understandable when most buyers judge a light by how big a number is on the box and how small a number is on the price tag. If a company is honest, people will pass over their lights for a competitor that isn't, it's just the way it is. Thankfully Francois is doing his best to educate the world, but he's still only going to reach a tiny fraction of the mtb community.

    However, when a manufacturer claims an output that simply isn't physically possible, that's just outright lying.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by francois View Post
    Where'd you find that?

    fc
    DIY LED Bike Lights:
    A few Dynamo builds and some Small battery lights

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by znomit View Post
    1200 is ok though?

    Cough cough


    Post of the year there znomit...

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattthemuppet View Post
    ...from my point of view, if a manufacturer quotes the theoretical output (say, 900lm for a P7 D-bin) that's excusable, if misleading....
    Agree....Yes, when they do that as least you know that they understand what LED they are working with. However the issue becomes a bit muddied when you start mixing and or using multiple LED's.


    Quote Originally Posted by mattthemuppet View Post
    ...However, when a manufacturer claims an output that simply isn't physically possible, that's just outright lying.
    ....I'll go a step further....It could be construed as outright deception. I would say that it "is" outright deception if were not for the fact that they are telling you what LED is being used. ( provided they're not lying about that as well .. )

    The educated consumer already knows the limits of the LED's in question.. Unfortunately it's the novice that doesn't know jack about how much light a certain LED is capable of outputting.

    Now with all this said, who are you gonna buy from....Someone who's lying out his xxx, or someone who at least is telling you some semblance of truth?

    Anyway, to the folks propagating these "Monster Lumen" claims, here's one super 2-die green led you can sell for free...It uses a new US output standard called "Moonins" ->
    Shine on my friends.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-man-do View Post
    ....I'll go a step further....It could be construed as outright deception. I would say that it "is" outright deception if were not for the fact that they are telling you what LED is being used. ( provided they're not lying about that as well .. )
    How about when they remove the LED from their specs and photos after people question their Lumen numbers?

    Cough cough youknowwho.
    DIY LED Bike Lights:
    A few Dynamo builds and some Small battery lights

  20. #20
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    Did you get a chance to measure that light? - I am wondering what light $50-60 would buy and if it is worth that amount or money.

    Thanks

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    So at the end of the day, this sellers are only foucs to the "novice", entry, ignorant market.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by juergenor View Post
    Did you get a chance to measure that light? - I am wondering what light $50-60 would buy and if it is worth that amount or money.

    Thanks
    If you buy a high power LED light for $50-$60 you'll get what you pay for. At best it will be 600-700 lumens. At best it will work for a long time though it likely won't. When it does have trouble you'll have no recourse with the seller, if you can find them. You'll then learn the lesson or go buy another $50-$60 light and probably repeat the previous experience.

    WARNING!! Ramble mode on!

    The manufacturers get the price so low by cutting quality, using low grade and underspec'd components, and low labor costs. They prey on a consumer that doesn't know what a lumen or mA is, but believes more of them for less $$$ must be better. Thus a market exists.

    Some, like the OP, have doubts and do the research. They research and discover the facts. They then are positioned to better decide if the low end product could still serve their need and if the can tolerate the risk that they will get a POS that might leave them without their primary light at a bad time.

    Ramble off

    Whew!

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by znomit View Post
    How about when they remove the LED from their specs and photos after people question their Lumen numbers?

    Cough cough youknowwho.
    If you are referring to the BikerayUSA web site, yes I know but they weren't the first to inflate their lumen claims. They did remove their LED info from their web site which wasn't a good idea and after checking ( just now ) it looks as though things remain the same. The Ray IV likely puts out about 1200 to 1300 lumen IMO. Claimed output is 1500lm.

    Anyway, saying a light using an LED with an actual output of 800 lumen ( at best ) is putting out 1800 lumen....... that is a category of deception that you can't ignore with a wink and a nod. There's "bad" and then there's "Really freeking Bad".

    Quote Originally Posted by Vancbiker View Post
    ...If you buy a high power LED light for $50-$60 you'll get what you pay for. At best it will be 600-700 lumens. At best it will work for a long time though it likely won't. When it does have trouble you'll have no recourse with the seller, if you can find them. You'll then learn the lesson or go buy another $50-$60 light and probably repeat the previous experience.
    !
    Well said.
    Last edited by Cat-man-do; 10-20-2011 at 01:44 PM.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by mochodurazo View Post
    So at the end of the day, this sellers are only focusing to the "novice", entry, ignorant market.
    For the most part, yes. Then there are the people I call "The Gamblers". Gamblers know the issues ( the pro's and the con's ) yet they still are willing to take a chance on a product because it is affordable. Gamblers are willing to over-look deception as long as they get what they think they are actually paying for. As for myself I suppose I'm a bit of a gambler however if the claims are too outlandish I tend to let someone else roll the dice.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-man-do View Post
    As for myself I suppose I'm a bit of a gambler however if the claims are too outlandish I tend to let someone else roll the dice.
    x2

    I pulled the trigger on the 2600 lumens combo that Geomans sales, knowing the hugh battery problem from last year. Another reason was becasue here, got a reputation that they "stand" on what they sale.

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