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  1. #1
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    XM-L lets discuss

    There has been a few posts with plans for this led but no real info has appeared .

    Lets discuss this new kid soon to be on the block .

    what is your perceived sweet set up for this led .

    and what optic would you like to exist


    Me I think the Cute spot triple will be a goer from what is available at the moment .

    will you want to drive it at the full 3 amps or be happy with less .

    can we still make tiny lights from this baby ?

    single optic that may work the MCE boom
    will the sheer amount of lumens cover up some optics failings

  2. #2
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    I just don't see the tiny lights unless you are OK with a wide beam. The three up 20mm will just be too wide. The die on these is 2mm x 2mm right? That should put them on par with the MC-E or even P7 as far as focusing goes. That makes me think that the Ledil Iris will be about the best helmet light optic. Perhaps something in the 20mm range like the BOOM reflector might be sufficient for a bar light. As far as the 10mm lenses go I somehow doubt they will be useful.

    A three up at 20mm might be too much concentrated heat if you run at the max of 3 amps. Perhaps three in a MR16 (50mm) size? I know that's pretty big, but it will give 2700+ lumens.

    I don't think that we will really know until some more optics are released. Right now I'm only aware of the few Ledil ones. I'm sure that many will follow.

    One positive of the XM-L is the lumens per dollar ratio. If I remember correctly they are going for less than $10 US and that is not all that much more than the XP-G, but with twice the light output. Fewer LEDs also translates into less optics, less machining, etc which should really lower cost.

    One thing is for sure. The XM-L will be a MC-E and P7 killer. Less expensive, brighter, and more efficient, what's not to like about that.

    I see in another post that KD has XM-L lights and dropins. Anyone know if they are actually shipping those or if they are really a month (or more) away?
    Last edited by vroom9; 12-15-2010 at 02:22 PM.

  3. #3
    Just a flesh wound
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    Only 3.35 volts at 3,000ma. Only one element. Looks like a promising platform. You could use a 7.2v battery with 4,000mah rating and get 2.5 hours runtime easy.

    Those are my simple thoughts. I like my triple XP-G, but the triple optics seem to lose a fair bit of the lumens that are theoretically there. My old double XR-E with the 8 degree spot is my choice if I only have one light.
    My name is Chris and I ride a Prophet 650b with a Lefty.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prophet Julio
    Only 3.35 volts at 3,000ma. Only one element. Looks like a promising platform. You could use a 7.2v battery with 4,000mah rating and get 2.5 hours runtime easy.

    Those are my simple thoughts. I like my triple XP-G, but the triple optics seem to lose a fair bit of the lumens that are theoretically there. My old double XR-E with the 8 degree spot is my choice if I only have one light.
    Even better you could go with single cell or a few cells in parallel with a simple 7135 linear regulator and get good efficiency (90%) and get about 85% of the charge capacity before dimming sets in.

  5. #5
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    1x10 IS SO FINE on my 21.9 lbs IBIS SL-R
    11-36 XTR in the rear, 36T wide-narrow upfront

  6. #6
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    I'm thinking P4 optics may work OK with this thing or BOOM. I need to get my Boom's on order!
    "It looks flexy"

  7. #7
    Bigger is better!
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    Quote Originally Posted by biketuna
    Wohoo! Just ordered 2

    Hope they arrive before summer....

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by langen
    Wohoo! Just ordered 2

    Hope they arrive before summer....
    Might want to order these ones instead as they are a few dollars cheaper and appear to be the same product:

    http://kaidomain.com/ProductDetails....roductId=11107

    I have two shipped by Kai and currently waiting to be processed by HK Post... if I'm really lucky might have them in hand before the end of the year but I'm sure not counting on it.
    Last edited by kwarwick; 12-26-2010 at 03:38 PM.

  9. #9
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    I was idly planning a MC-E bar light for early next year, but was put off by the larger housing I'd have to make to fit a Ledil Iris. If 20mm reflectors work well with the XM-L I might think about a single or double XM-L with a hipflex, using my trusty inch square alloy tubing

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattthemuppet
    I was idly planning a MC-E bar light for early next year, but was put off by the larger housing I'd have to make to fit a Ledil Iris. If 20mm reflectors work well with the XM-L I might think about a single or double XM-L with a hipflex, using my trusty inch square alloy tubing
    What about these MCE lens setups? Anyone tried them?
    MCE Optics


    I just had a few sent over since I have that 1000 lumen special bin MCE 20mm star on the way from cutter with my 7-up board.
    "It looks flexy"

  11. #11
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    As soon as the decent bins are released i'll order 3 and try it with my 3 ledil boom's..

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by gticlay
    What about these MCE lens setups? Anyone tried them?
    MCE Optics
    Troutie spent a lot of time trying different MC-E optics and I'm pretty sure he's tried those (long time since I read the thread though). Would be worth checking here anyway, though the general message I got was that MC-E = 35mm reflector

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldigger
    As soon as the decent bins are released i'll order 3 and try it with my 3 ledil boom's..
    that'd be neat to see, pretty much a drop in for you You're using Boom SS's right? Let us know how you get on!

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattthemuppet
    Troutie spent a lot of time trying different MC-E optics and I'm pretty sure he's tried those (long time since I read the thread though). Would be worth checking here anyway, though the general message I got was that MC-E = 35mm reflector
    Actually, I meant using the MC-E optics on the XML. Both have a bigger dome, with the XML being a little smaller (more throw, less flood curing the wide problem?) and not having the 4 seperate emitters and creating the 4-leaf clover effect. It could be perfecto. Now I wish I had an XML star ordered up
    "It looks flexy"

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattthemuppet
    Troutie spent a lot of time trying different MC-E optics and I'm pretty sure he's tried those (long time since I read the thread though). Would be worth checking here anyway, though the general message I got was that MC-E = 35mm reflector

    I did indeed and pretty much was disilusioned with the beggers then the XPE was released so pretty much gave up on the MCE .

    so have a fairly good collection of MCE optics to have a play with when the XMLs hit the door mat .

    I also wonder what the Regina will be like will need a small mod to the base but gut feeling is it may be an OK one . as far as small goes .

    I have not liked any of the 16 mm ledils for the XPGs so dont hold out much hope there .
    and am looking forward to trying the Cute triple I am hoping for good things there .

    and also have a few asphericals to try out too

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by gticlay
    Actually, I meant using the MC-E optics on the XML. Both have a bigger dome, with the XML being a little smaller (more throw, less flood curing the wide problem?) and not having the 4 seperate emitters and creating the 4-leaf clover effect. It could be perfecto. Now I wish I had an XML star ordered up
    oops, sorry, misunderstood your post

  17. #17
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    Troutie, take a look to the german forums...i think there are the experts ;-)

    Zur SST90 bei 3,2A : Na, ja. Wenn man mal die Werte so anschaut würde ich auf etwa 800 lm tippen. Da ist eine XM-L deutlich überlegen weil viel, viel billiger!

    SST @ 3.2 A 800 Lumen....XML better,because cheaper !

    http://www.mtb-news.de/forum/showthr...47#post7839947

  18. #18
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    Hmmm ... just noticed digikey has T5 bin XMLs in stock (http://search.digikey.com/scripts/Dk...0000T5050CT-ND), but no thermal boards.

    Anybody have a source of thermal boards closer than Oz. I like Cutters, but it always takes 2 weeks to get an order from Oz to the former Colonies.

    If I get my hands on an XML I want to light it up

    Not much fun having parts you can't power up

    Oh well, guess I'll get in the queue at Cutters.

    Mark
    Nimium est melior!

  19. #19
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    T5 in stock on 20mm star and 16mm round, T6 will be in stock by Tues next week, same PCB
    Cheers
    WeLight

    Cutter Electronics Pty Ltd www.cutter.com.au

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by WeLight
    T5 in stock on 20mm star and 16mm round, T6 will be in stock by Tues next week, same PCB
    What tint is the T6? 1A, 1B......?

  21. #21
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    How about a limited 1 time free shipping on XML stars and 20mm round (stars?) for mtbr people that have been a part of this thread so far? If you can do it for $100 orders, you could do it for this thread
    "It looks flexy"

  22. #22
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    The mind reels at the possibilities!

    Troutie, since you asked, I would like a 2 or 3 LED floodmonster for the bar. I am curious how the pattern would look without any optics at all. Well, maybe a 2D top reflector to fold the upper third of the emissions downward for better efficiency.

    More importantly, I want a 2 LED beamer for the helmet. This one needs good optics, maybe one very narrow and one medium narrow. User retrofitable optics would be a huge plus. I would be inclined to run it at half power most of the time to gain the efficiency, with a full power turbo mode fro those times when I need to see what owns those large eyes staring at me from across the ravine. That reminds me, I also need enough output on turbo to temporarily blind a mountain lion.

    gerG
    ...uphill uphill uphill DOWNHILL! uphill uphill uphill uphill DOWNHILL! uphill ...

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by WeLight
    T5 in stock on 20mm star and 16mm round, T6 will be in stock by Tues next week, same PCB

    Oh well thats my christmas playtime fubared unless they get shipped by rocket powered carrier pidgeon .
    I will just have to watch you lot closer to OZ to see first impressions.

    G3rG

    I dont think there will be any problems getting the flood monster .
    the 2 led beamer may be a while for the optic makers to get to grips with .specially if you want small too .

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by troutie-mtb
    Oh well thats my christmas playtime fubared unless they get shipped by rocket powered carrier pidgeon .
    I will just have to watch you lot closer to OZ to see first impressions.

    G3rG

    I dont think there will be any problems getting the flood monster .
    the 2 led beamer may be a while for the optic makers to get to grips with .specially if you want small too .

    Hi Chris
    We hope to ship backorders before we close, I cant speak for Santa's sleigh though, he's well booked
    Cheers
    WeLight

    Cutter Electronics Pty Ltd www.cutter.com.au

  25. #25
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    Cheers Mark .

    have you tried any stock optics at your end any pointers

  26. #26
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    Lumens per $$$

    Haven't actually done the sums, but my guess is XML offers pretty good lumens per buck.
    So I'm idly wondering about doing a 2x XML helmet light. No idea which optics yet tho.
    Brisbane, AU

  27. #27
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    The best 20mm optic for the mce is the ledil lm1-RS (best throw)
    as it was testet on the mtb forum for the 4x MCE board in rob1111's light!!

    so i assume that this optic wil work with the XM-L too and there are also other beam angels available!

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by troutie-mtb
    Cheers Mark .

    have you tried any stock optics at your end any pointers
    Hi Chris
    I emailed you a ZIP file with beamshots on many existing Optics with XM that Matt set up
    Cheers
    WeLight

    Cutter Electronics Pty Ltd www.cutter.com.au

  29. #29
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    Mark, how do I ordel XM-L on a 20mm star?

  30. #30
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    Ordered

    Just ordered 3 XM-L's plus Regina optics to experiment with.
    Brisbane, AU

  31. #31
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    ...Scun.thorpe, UK

  32. #32
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    Thanks Hendo. This link is T5 on 20mm Star

    Here is a little more detail

    http://www.cutter.com.au/proddetail.php?prod=cut1027 T6 on 20mm star

    14mm Round is
    http://www.cutter.com.au/proddetail.php?prod=CUT1030 for T5
    http://www.cutter.com.au/proddetail.php?prod=cut1031 for T6

    T5 is 1A bin,
    T6 I have 8000 pcs inbound, these are the bins
    2T
    2B
    1C
    1A
    2S
    1D
    Cheers
    WeLight

    Cutter Electronics Pty Ltd www.cutter.com.au

  33. #33
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    Tell me more!

    Quote Originally Posted by WeLight
    Hi Chris
    I emailed you a ZIP file with beamshots on many existing Optics with XM that Matt set up
    Guys, I'd be most interested to hear Troutie's opinion on those beamshots Mark mentioned.
    • Pure guesswork on my part, but I'm betting the Regina optics should work OK with XM-L
    • But if anyone has real experimental results, then I'd love to see that!

    Thanks
    Brisbane, AU

  34. #34
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    T5 is 1A bin,
    T6 I have 8000 pcs inbound, these are the bins
    2T
    2B
    1C
    1A
    2S
    1D

    Could somebody be so kind as to explain what this chart means please? All i know is were talking color temps.. 3000k more yellow 6500k white
    Whats the difference between for example 2R and 2S?

  35. #35
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    Perhaps a simple way to look at it is
    Cheers
    WeLight

    Cutter Electronics Pty Ltd www.cutter.com.au

  36. #36
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    Obviously 1B would be nice, but they don't bother to make it........
    "It looks flexy"

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by WeLight
    Hi Chris
    I emailed you a ZIP file with beamshots on many existing Optics with XM that Matt set up

    Thanks Mark .
    just got up to check on the cricket is it OK to post them up on here

  38. #38
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    So does anyone have/know where the chromaticity chart is that has the colors under the chart. I can't remember if 1c or 1a is bluer.

  39. #39
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    you can see the pics here

    http://s199.photobucket.com/albums/a.../XM-L%20STUFF/



    So if 8000 T6 s and a mixed up lot of bins does this mean we the punters will not know what we will be getting till they arrive .

  40. #40
    A waste of time it is is
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    Thanks for sharing Mark and Chris.

    It would be nice though if those pics had some sort of dimensions on them, including distance from wall

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by odtexas
    So does anyone have/know where the chromaticity chart is that has the colors under the chart. I can't remember if 1c or 1a is bluer.

    Post 15 http://budgetlightforum.cz.cc/node/898

    Does anyone know if the US group buy at cpf is going to happen? With the long delay and all the speculation, the thread is a bit mangled.
    Last edited by rlouder; 12-17-2010 at 11:22 PM.

  42. #42
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    So, based on those shots the EVA-S and 10193-10425 look real good to me.

    INTERESTING, the 10193 is the "plain tight MC-E" optic.

    Optics
    "It looks flexy"

  43. #43
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    I see dead people




  44. #44
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    [QUOTE=gticlay]INTERESTING, the 10193 is the "plain tight MC-E" optic.QUOTE]

    That is pretty interesting. I tried that 10193 on the MC-E a couple years ago and found it pitiful at best.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldigger
    T5 is 1A bin,
    T6 I have 8000 pcs inbound, these are the bins
    2T
    2B
    1C
    1A
    2S
    1D

    Could somebody be so kind as to explain what this chart means please? All i know is were talking color temps.. 3000k more yellow 6500k white
    Whats the difference between for example 2R and 2S?
    Black & white charts to explain colour This should help:
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails XM-L   lets discuss-ansiwhite.jpg  


  46. #46
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    Why colors are so different for different optics?

  47. #47
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    And finally I know how to use 10193 optics that I have

  48. #48
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    Thanks rlouder and yeti for posting that chart. I can usually find things, but last night was a complete bust trying to find those charts. Saved to photobucket now... Real life savers their guys.
    Troutie- Thanks for making the beamshots that Cutter did available.
    Looks like the 35mm Fraen will be the thrower for me.
    Now to start planning the 2012 collection.

  49. #49
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    [QUOTE=Vancbiker]
    Quote Originally Posted by gticlay
    INTERESTING, the 10193 is the "plain tight MC-E" optic.QUOTE]

    That is pretty interesting. I tried that 10193 on the MC-E a couple years ago and found it pitiful at best.
    It looks pretty sorry with the MC-E. The XML is a single instead of a quad though...
    "It looks flexy"

  50. #50
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    Next question

    what are we all going to be using to drive these Lumen loverlies

    B2flex up to 1.5 amps which would be OK

    H6flex for 3 amps

    what else is available to us mortals who cant russtle up our own .


    what about direct drive is this possible for a small helmet light .

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by troutie-mtb
    Next question

    what are we all going to be using to drive these Lumen loverlies

    B2flex up to 1.5 amps which would be OK

    H6flex for 3 amps

    what else is available to us mortals who cant russtle up our own .


    what about direct drive is this possible for a small helmet light .
    I've got A lonely hipflex I can use..just won't be able to get the full 3 amps to the xmls

    I also Have A constant current driver for 2.8 amps that needs A home
    One of these http://www.dotlight.de/products/fr/L...DC-2800mA.html

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by troutie-mtb
    what about direct drive is this possible for a small helmet light .
    Wouldn't it be better to instead use a 7135 based driver, and use a 1SxxP batterypack? If I understand correctly the efficiency wouldn't be half bad.
    An added bonus is that you wont get issues with the cells in the pack going out of balance

  53. #53
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    I had a Kaidomain 5 mode drop-in delivered yesterday. Seems pretty incredible for the $$$. Very floody. I did some ceiling bounce lux meter comparisons and measured the tailcap voltage.

    Ceiling bounce test lux readings:
    XM-L 175
    MC-E 139
    MagicShine 900 5mode 133
    MagicShine 900 3mode 129
    Linger 2xXPG-R5 128
    XPG-R5 107

    Current measurements at the tailcap on a fresh cell (a couple minutes runtime already):
    Hi 3.3A
    Med 1.25A
    Low 0.13A
    baker

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by baker
    I had a Kaidomain 5 mode drop-in delivered yesterday. Seems pretty incredible for the $$$. Very floody. I did some ceiling bounce lux meter comparisons and measured the tailcap voltage.

    Ceiling bounce test lux readings:
    XM-L 175
    MC-E 139
    MagicShine 900 5mode 133
    MagicShine 900 3mode 129
    Linger 2xXPG-R5 128
    XPG-R5 107

    Current measurements at the tailcap on a fresh cell (a couple minutes runtime already):
    Hi 3.3A
    Med 1.25A
    Low 0.13A

    Baker - very jealous you got yours. So that's the P60 drop in they are selling... by floody, you mean in general or for a drop in flashlight beam? Beam wise, it's more floody than a MS900?

    This beamshot from one of their 5-mode XML's looks like crap, IMO.
    Kaidomain Beamshot
    "It looks flexy"

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by odtexas
    Now to start planning the 2012 collection.
    Odtexas, there'll be something new and even brighter by 2012!

  56. #56
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    +1........

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by odtexas
    +1........
    Aha, with you now, I missed the irony! Sorry I was being a bit dumb.

  58. #58
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    Other possible drivers?

    For the record, I've been a lurker for a LONG time and building lights with your knowledge. I'm clearly not the expert and would love some of your thoughts on these drivers.

    These are 'designed' for the MCE/P7 four die emitters. Being that they are designed to have 4 parallel wired emitters, I'm thinking that they wouldn't work but need to ask anyway.

    http://www.kaidomain.com/ProductDeta...roductId=10973

    http://www.kaidomain.com/ProductDeta...ProductId=9906

    http://www.kaidomain.com/ProductDeta...ProductId=9534

    http://www.kaidomain.com/ProductDeta...ProductId=7947

    http://www.kaidomain.com/ProductDeta...ProductId=5595

    Troutie: for helmet light?
    http://www.kaidomain.com/ProductDeta...ProductId=1845

    To my untrained eye, this one shows the most promise:
    http://www.kaidomain.com/ProductDeta...ProductId=1770

    Thanks, Kelly
    Gravity is my friend... SOMETIMES!!

  59. #59
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    The first 5 have an inductor, so are probably more efficient if driving the XML form more than 5 volts. The technical term used for these is buck converter. If you search on this forum you should find a decent explanation of how they work.

    The last 2 should be OK with a single cell (or a bunch of cells in parallel). Running them off 2 Li-Ion cells in series would probably burn them up.

    Thanks for posting the list. I haven't look at KD in quite a while.

    Mark
    Nimium est melior!

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldigger
    I've got A lonely hipflex I can use..just won't be able to get the full 3 amps to the xmls

    I also Have A constant current driver for 2.8 amps that needs A home
    One of these http://www.dotlight.de/products/fr/L...DC-2800mA.html
    I thought the hipflex ran up to 2.8A, but with some nice steps in between (1>1.4>2>2.4/2.8)? I checked out the h6flex, which is its replacement and it goes waaay higher than necessary (6A? It's late ) but only goes 1.4>2>2.8>3A. Hmm. I wouldn't mind the hipflex if you're interested in selling or trading for a bunch of cateye spacers + $?

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by troutie-mtb
    you can see the pics here

    http://s199.photobucket.com/albums/a.../XM-L%20STUFF/



    So if 8000 T6 s and a mixed up lot of bins does this mean we the punters will not know what we will be getting till they arrive .
    what was the mod for the Regina? Opening up the hole at the base a bit? I think that it's one of the nicer beam patterns, along with the EVA S.

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattthemuppet
    I thought the hipflex ran up to 2.8A, but with some nice steps in between (1>1.4>2>2.4/2.8)? I checked out the h6flex, which is its replacement and it goes waaay higher than necessary (6A? It's late ) but only goes 1.4>2>2.8>3A. Hmm. I wouldn't mind the hipflex if you're interested in selling or trading for a bunch of cateye spacers + $?
    Matt, I think you're missing the point of the Flex drivers.
    Those currents you have quoted above are the maximum you can set, so for the XM-L you'd likely choose 3A. With in that maximum you can then select duomode or multi mode and then program the required "step levels" up to that maximum you have already selected, depending on what type of Flex driver you have. It's not a case of only having 1A as low, then 1.4, 2, 2.4 etc upto the max permissible.

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    Hi Emu, thanks for clarifying the Flex current stuff.

    A lot of folk think the current table max values are the 'steps' available during operation. I suppose I need to figure out how to clarify the difference between choosing a current table via the menu system versus the available steps within a chosen current table.

    I specifically added the 3A choice to the h6flex to cater for the XML

    So, for the XML, most folk would select/choose the 3A current table in the menu system. Then the 5 levels that are available in UIB would be nominally:

    L1 50mA
    L2 200mA
    L3 700mA
    L4 1700mA
    L5 3000mA

    cheers,
    george.

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by georges80
    Hi Emu, thanks for clarifying the Flex current stuff.

    A lot of folk think the current table max values are the 'steps' available during operation. I suppose I need to figure out how to clarify the difference between choosing a current table via the menu system versus the available steps within a chosen current table.

    I specifically added the 3A choice to the h6flex to cater for the XML

    So, for the XML, most folk would select/choose the 3A current table in the menu system. Then the 5 levels that are available in UIB would be nominally:

    L1 50mA
    L2 200mA
    L3 700mA
    L4 1700mA
    L5 3000mA

    cheers,
    george.
    Personally i think the h6flex pretty much covers everything, there's not much reason as to why you cant use it with any led..unless you wanted 9amps for a sst-90.. 700mah or 1amp max.. but as anything below 1000mah is pwm you might get away with a higher current level?

    The only thing i dont like is the 50ma level..
    edit: i just read that 50ma is actually 1000ma PWM so i take that back..

    Below 1000mA the h6Flex now transitions to PWM (at a nominal 400Hz) to provide dimming as recommended by Luminus. This means that, e.g. the 50mA L1 level is actually 1000mA pulses with a 1 in 20 duty cycle at 400Hz (1000mA/20 = 50mA average current to the load).

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by troutie-mtb
    you can see the pics here

    http://s199.photobucket.com/albums/a.../XM-L%20STUFF/



    So if 8000 T6 s and a mixed up lot of bins does this mean we the punters will not know what we will be getting till they arrive .
    I have set up the ordering, as I always do, so you can select the bin you want
    Cheers
    WeLight

    Cutter Electronics Pty Ltd www.cutter.com.au

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by emu26
    Matt, I think you're missing the point of the Flex drivers.
    Those currents you have quoted above are the maximum you can set, so for the XM-L you'd likely choose 3A. With in that maximum you can then select duomode or multi mode and then program the required "step levels" up to that maximum you have already selected, depending on what type of Flex driver you have. It's not a case of only having 1A as low, then 1.4, 2, 2.4 etc upto the max permissible.

    Quote Originally Posted by georges80
    Hi Emu, thanks for clarifying the Flex current stuff.

    A lot of folk think the current table max values are the 'steps' available during operation. I suppose I need to figure out how to clarify the difference between choosing a current table via the menu system versus the available steps within a chosen current table.

    I specifically added the 3A choice to the h6flex to cater for the XML

    So, for the XML, most folk would select/choose the 3A current table in the menu system. Then the 5 levels that are available in UIB would be nominally:

    L1 50mA
    L2 200mA
    L3 700mA
    L4 1700mA
    L5 3000mA

    cheers,
    george.
    ah, that makes more sense, thanks guys In my defense, I work on soil nematodes, so all this is akin to voodoo for me. I've also only used bflex drivers (programming one of the older ones now), where it's a little more obvious - I didn't realise that there were other steps for the h6flex than the ones listed in the manual, depending on the max value set. I'm guessing that choosing 6A L5 (for whatever reason) would give different L1>4 values than if 3A L5 were chosen.

    hmm, goes off to think..

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattthemuppet
    I've also only used bflex drivers (programming one of the older ones now), where it's a little more obvious - I didn't realise that there were other steps for the h6flex than the ones listed in the manual, depending on the max value set. I'm guessing that choosing 6A L5 (for whatever reason) would give different L1>4 values than if 3A L5 were chosen.
    It's exactly the same principle with all Taskled's *flex drivers. You set the max current level and by that all the other lower levels are adjusted automatically. So, it's the same with your bflex that you have set up.

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by ortelius
    It's exactly the same principle with all Taskled's *flex drivers. You set the max current level and by that all the other lower levels are adjusted automatically. So, it's the same with your bflex that you have set up.
    wow, you're right. I just went back and read the manual (RTFM FTW!) to see that "brightness scales to this max setting" plastered all over it. That's interesting. So when I set my max to 1.5A (currently 1A), my medium and low settings will get brighter too. How is it calculated, so I can figure out what the current is supposed to be at each setting?

    sorry for derailing the thread, I am still interested in XM-Ls

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattthemuppet
    wow, you're right. I just went back and read the manual (RTFM FTW!) to see that "brightness scales to this max setting" plastered all over it. That's interesting. So when I set my max to 1.5A (currently 1A), my medium and low settings will get brighter too. How is it calculated, so I can figure out what the current is supposed to be at each setting?

    sorry for derailing the thread, I am still interested in XM-Ls
    Scaling is performed such as to maintain 'nice' even and applicable steps in brightness.

    Basically the human eye responds in a logarithmic fashion to light intensity. Here's a document I found, read and have based my dimming on since way back in 2003 with the first of the flex drivers (the uFlex). So, I typically take that curve and choose current values to sit on the curve - but then tweak values so be more useful for the intended application, e.g. the bike UI has different steps than say UIF.

    I prefer to not publish the current values for each level since they have changed over the years to better fit new LEDs and also to better fit the application (UIP versus UIF etc). If you really want to know the levels, the easiest way is to measure them with a meter.

    Finally, as another "twist" on trying to document or measure the current, some of the drivers (h6flex in particular) use adjustable constant current for the higher output levels (>= 1A for the h6flex) and then switch to PWM at lower output levels. For the h6flex this was done specifically so that it could work well with the Luminus -50 and -90 parts. The Luminus spec recommends a minimum driver current of 1A and to "contact" them for lower dimming information. Turns out for <1A the recommend using PWM of 1A pulses because they do not guarantee that their LED will "light" at lower current densities, i.e. at say 200mA constant current the LED may draw 200mA but no light comes out.... The -50 and -90 parts are single large monolithic emitters (like the XML) and since the current is shared over the entire die they have a minimum current density requirement for the "LE" part of LED" to occur

    When I first released the h6flex it only did PWM at levels lower than 200mA. I then had a customer mention erratic turn on of his SST-50. On reading the Luminus datasheet and then talking with a factory engineer I changed the firmware to do the PWM at levels lower than 1000mA.

    So, hopefully you get a bit of an idea of some of the work that goes into the flex driver firmware and a bit of an idea of why some parameters aren't documented and may change over time to improve the product performance as new LEDs come to market.

    Presumably this ends the thread derailment

    cheers,
    george.

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by georges80
    Scaling is performed such as to maintain 'nice' even and applicable steps in brightness.

    Basically the human eye responds in a logarithmic fashion to light intensity. Here's a document I found, read and have based my dimming on since way back in 2003 with the first of the flex drivers (the uFlex). So, I typically take that curve and choose current values to sit on the curve - but then tweak values so be more useful for the intended application, e.g. the bike UI has different steps than say UIF.

    I prefer to not publish the current values for each level since they have changed over the years to better fit new LEDs and also to better fit the application (UIP versus UIF etc). If you really want to know the levels, the easiest way is to measure them with a meter.

    Finally, as another "twist" on trying to document or measure the current, some of the drivers (h6flex in particular) use adjustable constant current for the higher output levels (>= 1A for the h6flex) and then switch to PWM at lower output levels. For the h6flex this was done specifically so that it could work well with the Luminus -50 and -90 parts. The Luminus spec recommends a minimum driver current of 1A and to "contact" them for lower dimming information. Turns out for <1A the recommend using PWM of 1A pulses because they do not guarantee that their LED will "light" at lower current densities, i.e. at say 200mA constant current the LED may draw 200mA but no light comes out.... The -50 and -90 parts are single large monolithic emitters (like the XML) and since the current is shared over the entire die they have a minimum current density requirement for the "LE" part of LED" to occur

    When I first released the h6flex it only did PWM at levels lower than 200mA. I then had a customer mention erratic turn on of his SST-50. On reading the Luminus datasheet and then talking with a factory engineer I changed the firmware to do the PWM at levels lower than 1000mA.

    So, hopefully you get a bit of an idea of some of the work that goes into the flex driver firmware and a bit of an idea of why some parameters aren't documented and may change over time to improve the product performance as new LEDs come to market.

    Presumably this ends the thread derailment

    cheers,
    george.
    Hi george,
    Any chance you are working on 20mm diameter drivers? I ask because with the new stuff out today, there is the opportunity to make single led lights (and triple 20mm) lights with a pretty small form factor... except the bestest drivers on the market are a larger diameter. Just a thought.
    "It looks flexy"

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by gticlay
    Hi george,
    Any chance you are working on 20mm diameter drivers? I ask because with the new stuff out today, there is the opportunity to make single led lights (and triple 20mm) lights with a pretty small form factor... except the bestest drivers on the market are a larger diameter. Just a thought.
    +1 hate to say it but thats the only reason why i bought some of Quazzles tripple boards as i wanted to keep the light as small as possible..
    No disrespect to Quazzle his boards are still great.
    But i'm not so keen on the temp sense of the L332MC as it just kills the light if things get to hot, plus i have to have two switches to access the modes.. This maybe changing with the L333.

    Please guys i'm not trying to start a war here you both do a great job

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by georges80
    Scaling is performed such as to maintain 'nice' even and applicable steps in brightness.

    Basically the human eye responds in a logarithmic fashion to light intensity. Here's a document I found, read and have based my dimming on since way back in 2003 with the first of the flex drivers (the uFlex). So, I typically take that curve and choose current values to sit on the curve - but then tweak values so be more useful for the intended application, e.g. the bike UI has different steps than say UIF.

    I prefer to not publish the current values for each level since they have changed over the years to better fit new LEDs and also to better fit the application (UIP versus UIF etc). If you really want to know the levels, the easiest way is to measure them with a meter.

    Finally, as another "twist" on trying to document or measure the current, some of the drivers (h6flex in particular) use adjustable constant current for the higher output levels (>= 1A for the h6flex) and then switch to PWM at lower output levels. For the h6flex this was done specifically so that it could work well with the Luminus -50 and -90 parts. The Luminus spec recommends a minimum driver current of 1A and to "contact" them for lower dimming information. Turns out for <1A the recommend using PWM of 1A pulses because they do not guarantee that their LED will "light" at lower current densities, i.e. at say 200mA constant current the LED may draw 200mA but no light comes out.... The -50 and -90 parts are single large monolithic emitters (like the XML) and since the current is shared over the entire die they have a minimum current density requirement for the "LE" part of LED" to occur

    When I first released the h6flex it only did PWM at levels lower than 200mA. I then had a customer mention erratic turn on of his SST-50. On reading the Luminus datasheet and then talking with a factory engineer I changed the firmware to do the PWM at levels lower than 1000mA.

    So, hopefully you get a bit of an idea of some of the work that goes into the flex driver firmware and a bit of an idea of why some parameters aren't documented and may change over time to improve the product performance as new LEDs come to market.

    Presumably this ends the thread derailment

    cheers,
    george.
    wow, you really know your stuff - all very interesting indeed! Thank you for such an in depth explanation and no worries about not publishing current levels, I just didn't want to post misleading beam shots (X brightness at Y current).

    not to speak for George, but he posted on another thread that heat dissipation and gadgets/ bells'n'whistles limits the minimum size of the flex drivers, hence no 20mm board sizes. I'm guessing that's why the higher current boards (h6flex et al) are much larger than the bflexes.

  73. #73
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    Thanks George very informative .
    not a derailment of the thread as very important to get the driver right too

    gticlay .
    you have a point but yes a single XM-L and say 20 mm driver fine in a small housing still going to be a fair bit of heat to get rid of if you want to drive it at full .

    with the H6flex it will drive a whole multitude of the beasts at and above the max rated .
    so the housing will need to be a fair size to disipate all that heat .

    Quazzles stuff nice as it is does tie you to a particular optic so makes for less (Flex)ibility for experimental and future upgrades .





    This optic may hold some promise as with minimal modding of the holder the XML will fit in nicely .
    and the beam will be a floodier one but twice as bright from ONE led .

    the beam shots are one XPG @ 1400 ma so around 400 lumens so imagine it twice as bright and a bit wider








    .

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by georges80

    When I first released the h6flex it only did PWM at levels lower than 200mA. I then had a customer mention erratic turn on of his SST-50. On reading the Luminus datasheet and then talking with a factory engineer I changed the firmware to do the PWM at levels lower than 1000mA.

    cheers,
    george.
    And its this level of customer service that makes Taskled drivers worth ever cent

  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by emu26
    And its this level of customer service that makes Taskled drivers worth ever cent
    agree 100%!

  76. #76
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    Well now I am wondering if we have all been under achieving and only looking in one direction .

    this is 2 XPGs running at 1.4 amps so about 800 lumens ish
    so about what we can expect from one XML

    OK its a snow shot but still WOW .

    Edited
    LAURA RS X 2 @ 1400 MA





    CXP RS X 2 @1400 MA




    its got throw , Its got spill and its not a Regina
    its an overlooked optic that I cant remember much mention of in the past .

    and paired with a B2Flex @ 1.5 amps is a killer
    Last edited by troutie-mtb; 12-20-2010 at 11:56 PM.

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by troutie-mtb
    Well now I am wondering if we have all been under achieving and only looking in one direction .

    this is 2 XPGs running at 1.4 amps so about 800 lumens ish
    so about what we can expect from one XML

    OK its a snow shot but still WOW .





    its got throw , Its got spill and its not a Regina
    its an overlooked optic that I cant remember much mention of in the past .

    and paired with a B2Flex @ 1.5 amps is a killer
    you're such a tease.

    Oh, and the 1st shot looks like something out of a Harry Potter film

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by troutie-mtb
    its got throw , Its got spill and its not a Regina
    its an overlooked optic that I cant remember much mention of in the past .

    Can we take guesses????? pleeeze????

    LXP-RS?

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vancbiker
    Can we take guesses????? pleeeze????

    LXP-RS?

    Thats the Spirit !!!!!!!! Nope

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by troutie-mtb
    Thats the Spirit !!!!!!!! Nope
    How 'bout a clue. Is it 20mm or bigger?

  81. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by JezV
    How 'bout a clue. Is it 20mm or bigger?

    approx 20 mm

  82. #82
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    One of the original square 20mm lenses for the XR-E family but i can't remember what brand they are

  83. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by troutie-mtb
    Well now I am wondering if we have all been under achieving and only looking in one direction .

    this is 2 XPGs running at 1.4 amps so about 800 lumens ish
    so about what we can expect from one XML

    OK its a snow shot but still WOW .





    its got throw , Its got spill and its not a Regina
    its an overlooked optic that I cant remember much mention of in the past .

    and paired with a B2Flex @ 1.5 amps is a killer
    Im trying to work out the shirt/jacket, nice flannel....
    Man it looks cold, cant say much about downunder, its been raining all week in the middle of summer. My daughter slept at Heathrow overnight but did manage to get on the flying Kangaroo home for chrissy, Merry Xmas to all
    Cheers
    WeLight

    Cutter Electronics Pty Ltd www.cutter.com.au

  84. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by troutie-mtb
    Thats the Spirit !!!!!!!! Nope
    ill have a stab at ledil CXP square?

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    Quote Originally Posted by mattthemuppet
    you're such a tease.

    Oh, and the 1st shot looks like something out of a Harry Potter film
    +1 on both

    First thing I thought as well.... Now he's making magic wands. Sure beats Magic Shines though.....

  86. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by troutie-mtb
    Thats the Spirit !!!!!!!! Nope

    He said optic, but was that meant to throw is off the scent?????

    IMS20 reflector maybe?

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    Quote Originally Posted by troutie-mtb
    Thats the Spirit !!!!!!!! Nope
    I vote that the optic in that shot is nothing but cold dark air. aka, no optic at all, except for the one built into the LED.

    gerG
    ...uphill uphill uphill DOWNHILL! uphill uphill uphill uphill DOWNHILL! uphill ...

  88. #88
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    Polymer optics 120?

    Ledil CRS RS 6?

    Oh, I give up

  89. #89
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    Yep minus nine degrees c the shirt is an anti-central heating shirt. As worn by construction workers all over the UK , padded and really warm .

    Tell Laura I love her

  90. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by troutie-mtb
    Yep minus nine degrees c the shirt is an anti-central heating shirt. As worn by construction workers all over the UK , padded and really warm .

    Tell Laura I love her
    Quote Originally Posted by troutie-mtb
    Laura Ledil

    getting towards aspherical here wonder if it will have the same effect on the XPGs
    Thread

  91. #91
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    Now I'm confused.

    Aren't they the same as what cutter has listed as the CXP which when you select beam actually change to a LXP code?

    So, if an optic designed for a considerably smaller dome does that then wouldn't the equivalent optic from the same manufacturer designed for the XRE do an even better job? I don't remember if anyone ever tried one of those on an XPG

    And here I was thinking Laura was WeLights daughter and she was in the UK hand delivering stuff to you Troutie

  92. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by emu26
    Now I'm confused.

    Aren't they the same as what cutter has listed as the CXP which when you select beam actually change to a LXP code?

    So, if an optic designed for a considerably smaller dome does that then wouldn't the equivalent optic from the same manufacturer designed for the XRE do an even better job? I don't remember if anyone ever tried one of those on an XPG

    And here I was thinking Laura was WeLights daughter and she was in the UK hand delivering stuff to you Troutie

    LOL Im a bit confused too but have added the same shots to the pics post but useing the CXP RS and will let you compare .
    curious why Ledil have 2 optics so similar but as you can see a bit different in beam .



    Welights personal courier service

  93. #93
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    WeLight, can you shed some light on what you actually have online? Is it CXP or LXP and does the L actually stand for Laura and the xp designate the LED it is designed for?

    Chris, does the CXP have the tighter spot, just aimed down slightly further than the Laura?

    Thanks for sharing, again

  94. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by emu26
    WeLight, can you shed some light on what you actually have online? Is it CXP or LXP and does the L actually stand for Laura and the xp designate the LED it is designed for?

    Chris, does the CXP have the tighter spot, just aimed down slightly further than the Laura?

    Thanks for sharing, again



    Didnt have the time to study. Was in a hurry to beat the dawn .

    The Lxp is a round optic iirc

    The laura rs. Is different to the cxp rs. Will take a pic of the wo side by side tonight .

    The CXP does appear to have a tighter hot spot. But the laura seems to be the nicer trail light.
    With a better close up light.

    A bit more messing is needed I think
    Last edited by troutie-mtb; 12-21-2010 at 01:24 AM.

  95. #95
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    Here is xp-g page off the Ledil site: http://www.ledil.com/index.php?page=xp-g

    The LXP is a round optic that produces a smoother beam than the CXP. The CXP always had a slightly square edge on one of the sides of the beam.

    If you notice they also have a LXP2 and a LXP3 that have been on their site for quite a while but have never had their .pdf updated with beamshots. If you look at the pictures you can clearly see that they are different from one another. Assuming they actually make improvements through the revisions, then a LXP3 should be on par or better than a Regina. Who knows if we'll ever seem them though as the .pdf has a revision date from 8/2/2010.

    Sent ledil an email about the lxp3, curious what they'll say.

  96. #96
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    Found this on google
    selector tool, need to register to use it http://pct.cree.com/Register.asp

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    I compared the 3 contenders.. XM-L, XP-G and MC-E

    Available Bins

    Top Bins


    If people can wait for the U2 bin of the XM-L and you only run it at 1.5 amps you get 590 lumens vs XPG 493, MCE 456..and its more effecient than the XPG/MCE..
    obviously this is ignoring lumen losses with optics..but all things being equal..

    Two of these in a helmet light could be a killer..
    Last edited by Goldigger; 12-21-2010 at 11:27 AM.

  98. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldigger
    Found this on google
    selector tool, need to register to use it http://pct.cree.com/Register.asp
    Cool. Thanks for that link.

    If you change one of the columns to lumens/$ and enter some costs, you will see the true advantage of the XM-L. More lumens for less cost.

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    Technically, it's still cheaper to buy 2 XP-G R5 than it is to buy 1 XM-L T6

    DX has R5 1B bins on 14mm or 16mm mcb for $5.61ea shipped if you buy 3 or more. The cheapest T6 I can find is at Kaidomain for $12.31ea shipped. You can get that down to 11.62ea if you buy 3. Cutters shipping and the currency free thingy makes them more expense. Plus, I believe they up'd the price of their XP-G after it went off pre-sale as they seem much more expensive than I remember? If that's the case I'm assuming they'll do the same for the XM-L.

  100. #100
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    XM-L also available here.. found them on a polish forum
    http://www.lck-led.com/p853/Cree-XLa...duct_info.html

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