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  1. #1
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    wilma / arc (Flyer!!)

    just looking at the arc pics posted on here today, its impressive!

    in the UK the Li-ion ultra Arc retails at about 359 and the wilma i can get for similar price...

    I think i need min of 3-4 hours burn time as i cant keep switching the arc on and off thats why i'm comparing the wilma and arc ultra li-ion.

    Anyway getting to the point.... i know you have w ilma, betty and had an arc. Apart from the betty do you still think the arc is the best light for spread / penetration (like general use...i will have a 240 lumen helmet spot as well) ?

    Haha dont know what to do at this price

  2. #2
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    The Wilma will not become obsolete

    The Lupine Wilma is going to be a brighter beam with an even pattern. The ARC has more reach and more peripheral light. Overall, the beam pattern is superior to the current Wilma only because of the incredible peripheral light. There also is slight reach advantage. However, Lupine will provide users with the opportunity to buy DIY upgrades every couple of years so the Wilma will only get brighter and wider and you have the benefits of LEDs. So I look at the Wilma as Lupine's "base" light which will improve significantly with the next upgrade and every future upgrade- it will never become obsolete. That gives the Lupine an edge even though the ARC is a better beam for a one-light setup as they stand right now.

    if you get the ARC, get it from the US and have it shipped to you- the NiMH ARC is $325 and I'm sure shipping is no more than $30-$40. You will stilll come out way ahead. Let me know if you need some contact names.


    By the way, I do not have a Betty yet. As soon as I get one, I will compare its beam to the ARC beam. I have a feeling it will be very impressive and significantly better than anything else out there. After lot of thought and research, I decided to spend the money to get the Betty to complement the Wilma instead of going with the ARC.

  3. #3
    Feeding your addiction
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flyer
    By the way, I do not have a Betty yet.
    You will soon
    Got a tracking notice from Todd this morning, your light (and mine, and Squeaky's) will be here Friday. Woohooo, can't wait!!

    Larry
    Mountain High Cyclery
    larry@mtnhighcyclery.com
    "It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity". - Dave Barry

  4. #4
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    Todd rocks. I have a feeling Squeaky and you will get some attention on the trails in Loveland and me around Denver. I have not seen a Betty out here yet. Thanks, Larry!

  5. #5
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    I needed to respond here again (and I'll mention this in my full review later) since I can very pretty critical of stuff and I have pointed out the narrower nature of the Wilma beam when compared to my ARC. I now have many rides on just the Wilma. I have slowly become accustomed to the width of the beam not beinng as wide as the ARC. For the first time, I am now as comfortable at the same speeds as I was on the ARC. I pointed the Wilma a bit higher yesterday as well and found the best angle. I found I could get better peripheral vision this way as well. The even nature of the beam is fantastic and I feel that after all these rides, the Wilma has some pattern and color charateristics that are very impresssive. Woudl I like a wider beam- yes but I am now comfortable with it as one light. I still want my Betty, of course.

    The color is good and the evenness of the beam pattern helps define trail detail very well. By pointing it higher, I can see enough depth and shadows and know what's ahead as far as rocks and roots go- sharp dips are another story. A bar light will enhance this effect by a lot. However, I am becoming more and more impressed by the color of the light and how evenly it is diffused with no hot spots at all. I stoped and looked around a lot last night. There was just a thin slice of moon out and I started to see glowing eyes at quite a distance. It was tough to tell what type of animal the eyes belonged to but sine they were not charging towards me, I felt somewhat safe.

    I was somewhat critical of the Wilma a few weeks ago but what I failed to do was use it exclusively for several rides and let the "ARC Effect" wear off and let the advantages of the Wilma soak in. Since I went from just one ARC to just one Wilma, that would have been a more fair assessment. I still think a future upgrade should include a wider beam but it isn't as critical to me anymore. I still want it all though

    So I hope I shed a more balanced view now for those who want only one light. I'll mention all this when I review the Wilma and Betty together. I am now waiting for the Betty, which I'm afraid will stun some wildlife out there but it's better to do that than not see a kitty cat lurking on a rock overhang waiting for a 110lb XC weenie

    No offence to 110 lb guys- just an observation that you would probably make a more manageable meal and I would love to have one lead the rides at night.

  6. #6
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    thanks for the update Flyer, good to know you're getting on with the Wilma better now!

    So would you say the wilma would be a good bar companion to a more focused helmet light? (i've bought an Ayup helmet to allow me to ride until i sort out my bar light, just looking for a companion to it now. I think the ayup is pretty comparable to a joystick maxx, or a Dinotte 200L and am kind of hoping the wilma will fit the bill as it looks a lovely piece of kit!)

    Getting a 500 bonus due to lots of overtime this week so am feeling the need to spend it on lights although my sensible side says wait for James' big light review.....but my non sensible side wants them right now!!!!!

  7. #7
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    If you are running a spot helmet light now and are looking for a bar light that is a LED, it gets complex. I think for people who are not used to two ARCs, a light like the Wilma would actually be great. Even though the Wilma's peripheral beam does not extend out as far as the ARC, it still has decent light to the sides. As I get weaned off my ARC, I think the Wilma will be fine. I had one ARC but I see dual-ARC riders not finding the Wilma to have enough width to the spill as a bar light. I'm fine with it now so that's why I think it would make a good bar light AND one that is light enough (125 grams) to pop on the helmet (and hardly feel it) if you needed to.

    Regarding the construction and design details- yeah, nothing I have seen in person or in pictures comes close. It's a little piece of sculpture but solidly built too.

    I believe James will come out with his review in December. The Wilma will be at the top of the heap, I'm sure. The only other that truly interests me at this point is the Enduro MaXx and I'd still take the Wilma over that one even though I think the Enduro MaXx has a slightly wider beam. That's definitely my other choice for a bar light even though it's a heavier light on the bar itself.

    As a bar light (excluding the Betty) I'd go Wilma first, Enduro MaXx second, Dinotte 600L wide beam third, and the Trinewt fourth (cheapest, least bright and a history of reliability problems but very good beam width and decent customer service). I'm opinionated so keep that in mind

    Again, since you are using an Ayup spot on the helmet, you will absolutely love the Wilma. If you get it, do let me know what your impressions are. I'm not easily impressed but these Lupine lights are growing on me now.

  8. #8
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    I didn't mention the Nightlightning Blaast. That has a good pattern too but I'm not too impressed by its mounting options at all.

  9. #9
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    I picked up the Betty last night (thanks to Larry at mtnhighcyclery who left it for me at his house). How many dealers do you know that are that accomodating?

    I have not ridden with it yet but went to the backyard and did my usual "test" and all I can say is HOLY COW!!!

    Here is what's impressive. I thought it could be a light that could be almost too bright and reflective but that is not the case at all. The beam is so warm and even that it is sort of like a car headlight. It's a very wide beam and very evenly spread with no hotspot. I am going to get along so well with this light.

    I'll post up a detailed review once I take it to my favorite night trail.

    PS- Do not look into this light.

  10. #10
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    Congrats, Flyer - shine it in good health.

    I read where a mtn bike magazine downgraded the Betty because it produced too much light. Here is the quote:

    "An honourable mention has to go to the Lupine Betty 6, too. It really is quite bonkers in the power department, not to mention the price department. Now if only Lupine could calm it down from the current blinding - and therefore potentially dangerous - performance when viewed from an oncoming traffic point-of-view it would be a real wonder of a light."

    Lupine has brought us to the point of having to dim our lights for approaching traffic.

  11. #11
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    I could see it being a bit bright for oncoming riders. It certainly isn't one you want to stare into. I usually dim my lights when approaching others at night.

  12. #12
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    Flyer, congrats on getting your Betty . Now I want one too though . I Look forward to your review.

  13. #13
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    Hi, we will are wait yours beamshots

    Greetings - Saludos

    msxtr
    Warning!!! my english is very very bad, sorry.

    Easy DIY led light1
    Easy DIY led light2

    The Beast!!!

  14. #14
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    Right on Flyer, congrats for the Betty

    I did a couple of long rides this weekend and got the same feeling from my Wilma - its growing on me with every ride. Its brighter and smoother than the ARC, though the ARC is indeed wider. I also noticed a significant difference: the ARCs easily visible hot spot allows for perfect "aiming" right from the go, whereas the Wilmas smoother beam makes it harder to find the perfect tilt at first. But once you get used to after a little while, it really gets you.

    But running them both together is rather amazing!! This time I rode some very familiar trails and was finally able to compare them and get a better feel for the Wilma. The beams complement each other perfectly!! I did a long ride yesterday with lots of long downhills with fast curves. for the most part I had the Wilma on 60% (9 watts) + the ARC on low (10 watts), and I never ever felt I needed more. Like that, its a lot of light, it mest be seen to be believed. I reached 60km/h at some places and felt 100% confident.

    I turned them both to max a few times and was stunned at the light ahead of me! Like you, I stopped at times just to look at the surroundings, and I thought "OMG its like Im driving a car instead of a bike!". Others felt the same too, it seems. The weather was perfect here and there were lots of people everywhere, on the roads leading to the trails and also on the trails. I was getting their attention from far, far away. I could hear them "wooow-ing" when I came across 10 times out of 10. Some broke in laughter when they saw I was riding a bike, not a jeep with faulty lights.

    I came across a group of riders and they thought I was a MXer. I stopped at a bar to fill the bottles and the guy said he started praying and thought I was an UFO coming with two bright, white lights on top of each other - no kidding here After that I came across a group of MXers, and they stopped me to ask wtf I was using. They could not believe that much of light from such compact setups, and for how long the batteries could run them. I had more light than the 4 of them together, though they had rather weak halogens (or maybe Im getting too demanding? ).

    I used the Wilma on 3 rides straight, and I was most of the time on 60% or 100%. I easily got 5+ hours like that. Plus what I used playing with it on my backyard, comparing with the ARC and all. And it still has 50% of the charge, enough for perhaps a couple of hours. Pretty impressive. Theres a guy here wanting to buy my ARC, I asked good $$$ and if he keeps it Ill order me a Betty next week. If its as good as it seems, adding it to the Wilma... I wont be wishing for other lights for some looooong time

  15. #15
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    Good stuff, Alex. Good lights make such a difference at night.

    Well, my night ride is tomorrow but I have done some comparing in the backyard and the closed garage. The difference I can see with my limited experience with the Betty is this:

    Imagine the Wilma beam and then think about a beam that is almost twice as wide in the even main beam with quite a bit more peripheral light but that will be hard to judge outside of an open trail. The Betty beam is a bit warmer in color but with both lights on, the colors seem to be the same.

    My nightriding buddy is also very impressed with the peripheral light of the Betty (in the yard and garage) so tomorrow will be the real test with the Betty on the bar and the Wilma on the helmet. I do have a camera but it's a digital point-and-shoot so the pics may not be that representative of the beams but my description will be.

    The Betty has a Titanium endcap but other then that, it's almost identical to the Wilma. I have the Wilma 8 and the Betty 6 so I plan on swapping batteries and getting similar run times from both. That was done by design

    My buddy has an older 6 Volt Jet Halogen so I told him to not ride in front unless he feels like riding in his own shadow

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flyer
    The difference I can see with my limited experience with the Betty is this:

    Imagine the Wilma beam and then think about a beam that is almost twice as wide in the even main beam with quite a bit more peripheral light but that will be hard to judge outside of an open trail. The Betty beam is a bit warmer in color but with both lights on, the colors seem to be the same.

    My nightriding buddy is also very impressed with the peripheral light of the Betty (in the yard and garage) so tomorrow will be the real test with the Betty on the bar and the Wilma on the helmet. I do have a camera but it's a digital point-and-shoot so the pics may not be that representative of the beams but my description will be.
    Flyer,
    I was just going to post similar comments. Picked up my Betty from Larry this morning.
    I am VERY impressed. Peripheral spill is quite good and oh-my-gosh does it project far.

    Since I can't ride for another 3 months I'll be paying attention to your impressions of Betty as a solo unit v. Betty/Wilma combo. I haven't excluded that duo for next spring.

  17. #17
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    Id guess the Betty alone puts out almost as much light as the Wilma + ARC combo. Im judging from the lumen output specification provided by L&M (ARC, 650) and Lupine (Wilma, 830 - total 1.480). Give a bit or take a bit, the numbers should be close. Im not accounting for differences in beam projection and light quality of couse, its just an exercise in especulation. You should be opening "black holes" on the trail with the 2.000+ lumen of the Betty and Wilma though

    I just found the combined beams of the Lupine and L&M to be awesome. Ill get the Betty 6, since I prefer frame batteries to bottle ones. Running them both on 60% should provide super-illumination and allow for over 6 hours of burning time, thats more than Ill ever need. And if I need more, well I can always dim or turn one of them off. Either way thats lots of light and lots of time in a practical, lightweight and small setup. All I could ever wish for.

    Squeaky, wish you a fast recovery so you can ride your Betty soon!

  18. #18
    Bodhisattva
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex SP
    Id guess the Betty alone puts out almost as much light as the Wilma + ARC combo. Im judging from the lumen output specification provided by L&M (ARC, 650) and Lupine (Wilma, 830 - total 1.480). Give a bit or take a bit, the numbers should be close. Im not accounting for differences in beam projection and light quality of couse, its just an exercise in especulation. You should be opening "black holes" on the trail with the 2.000+ lumen of the Betty and Wilma though

    I just found the combined beams of the Lupine and L&M to be awesome. Ill get the Betty 6, since I prefer frame batteries to bottle ones. Running them both on 60% should provide super-illumination and allow for over 6 hours of burning time, thats more than Ill ever need. And if I need more, well I can always dim or turn one of them off. Either way thats lots of light and lots of time in a practical, lightweight and small setup. All I could ever wish for.

    Squeaky, wish you a fast recovery so you can ride your Betty soon!
    Thanks. 4 weeks since surgery, 3 months to go until I can ride offroad. I may be released to road riding in 4 more weeks. Hasn't been easy.

    And I find myself buying expensive toys during my downtime to compensate

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Squeaky Wheel
    I find myself buying expensive toys during my downtime to compensate
    ...so that's what my problem has been!


  20. #20
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    Delay in pics

    Just got back from mynight ride but I could not take any pics. I crashed on some rocks and hurt my shoulder and elbow. Then my buddy's light ran out (old halogen) and I had to ride behind him and bring him down the mountain. Oh, it was around 35-37 degrees and my toes were numb along with my fingers so I chickened out and didn't take any pics. I'm having trouble raising my arm anyway. I know..I'm full of silly excuses.....

    Anyway, I'l do this typing biz the best I can. The Batty is amaxing. I was afraid of just one thing- an overly bright hotspot. Nope- the beam was superwide and even- a good amount brighter than the Wilma (maybe 30%) and a lot wider with incredible reach. You could see 80 ft tall tress all lit up 40 feet up. It was like riding with a nice car headlight but no superwite reflection. The color is warm and all you have to do is pedal as fast as you can.

    I was very impressed by the color of the light. It lit up trail definition really well (small shadows) and I could see as far as the trail stretched. At one point, we ran parallel to a road and an oncoming car slowed down to look up at us. I dimmed, of course- even though we were not pointing at the road.

    I also dimmed both the Wilma and Betty to the 12% setting and though I would not bomb down the trail, I could still ride. That's close to a 40 hour setting, if not more.

    My crash messed up my helmet (and the bike and I basically tipped over sideways and I landed on my shoulder and elbow in a rockgarden pretty hard. I didn't even have time to put my hand out (probably a good thing). The lights just kept on shining while I tried to gather myself and hobbled up- no damage to anything but the helmet.

    The big thing is the reach of the beam and the width. Both are simply fantastic. Lupine has done a great job here. The beam seems to be at least as wide as the ARC and it just outclasses everything out there while being so even- no rings, no halos, no hotspots.

    Give me a few more days to take some pics and do a detailed review/comparo. I'll make sure I don't crash next time and take a ton of pics. I also need to get a new helmet pronto. Well, I'm done for the night. I gotta go find some pills or I'll be as stiff as a board tomorrow.

    Oh, I ruined my favorite Swobo Knee Warmers. That is what I'm most peeved about right now. I love those things

  21. #21
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    There I sat with the Lupine Betty in my online shopping cart. I filled in all lines required to complete the sale. I questioned whether I should click on the Complete Sale button on the bottom of the page. Then I looked away from my screen and clicked my mouse button.

  22. #22
    Bodhisattva
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaximusHQ
    There I sat with the Lupine Betty in my online shopping cart. I filled in all lines required to complete the sale. I questioned whether I should click on the Complete Sale button on the bottom of the page. Then I looked away from my screen and clicked my mouse button.
    WELL DONE SIR !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  23. #23
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    Nice, it is something else and would make a fantastic helmet light though I have it on the bar. I take it you went ahead and ordered it.

  24. #24
    Bodhisattva
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flyer
    Just got back from mynight ride but I could not take any pics. I crashed on some rocks and hurt my shoulder
    Be careful out there. You do not want to want up like me & jcarpenter.

    Surgeon game the OK to throw the brace away today. Yeeeeehaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa !!!!

  25. #25
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    Flyer how sad to hear about your crash. Im glad youre OK and the only real damage was made to your helmet (thats what theyre for huh!). Thanks for the writeup too, excellent info. Well be looking out for your pics.

    So the Betty is indeed as amazing as they say. How bigger is it than the Wilma? Im also wondering if it gets too hot. Im saying so because Im a bit impressed at how fast my Wilma warms up when running at 100% - and how hot it can become that quickly. If 4 LEDs make that, I wonder if Bettys 7 wont further this. I know Lupine uses advanced temp controlling and stuff but still, we all know how the heat can affect the efficiency of a LED. Not to mention its lifetime...

    Id be disappointed to know that my LED light is getting a "10% off" in output due to heat accumulation (Not that I would be able to tell it from the beam, but just knowing would be annoying hehehe...). Anyway I noticed this even when riding at a brisk pace (over 30kpm) in a rather cool night. It was warm to the touch (though not super-hot), whereas my ARC was much cooler. It might get even hotter during a warm summer night, Id guess.

    MaximusHQ, congrats for your purchase! Lupine rocks!

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