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  1. #1
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    Troutie/Cutter 7 UP

    Dear All,

    I have just ordered one of Trouties 7UP kits from Cutter and have a couple of questions to ask you.

    Apologies for the questions but I am not particularly electrically minded


    I have ordered the PCMCB so that it is populated as follows: 4 x XPG R5 and 3 x XPE R3. The battery ordered for this build is a Lithium Polymer Battery pack - 18.5V @ 4500maH.

    [1] Based on the above specification, in your opinion/experience, what should be the Maxflex be driven at 1000mA, 1200mA or 1300mA and what are advantages/disadvantages of these various current settings?

    [2] Can you provide me with a brief schematic on how to wire the attery status led to the maxflex? – refer to diagram

    [3] I would like also to use an illuminated LED momentary switch (just because I like to have an illuminated on/off switch). Is it possible to use such a switch and again, could you provide me with a brief schematic on how to wire the status led to the maxflex? – refer to diagram

    [4] Based on the LED board setup of 4 x XPG R5 and 3 x XPE R3, what is the hypothetical vs real light output at the current settings per [1]

    [5] Again based on the above specification, to what point would you set the temperature sensing cut off

    [6] Battery status LED – noting the use of a LiPo battery, at what point would you set the warning light to activate? - ½ discharged or nearly fully discharged and forced off (or warn only).

    Many thanks
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Troutie/Cutter 7 UP-maxflex.jpg  


  2. #2
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    Both the unconnected end of you battery status LED and the (-) terminal of your switch indicator LED should be connected to the GND terminals on the maxflex.

    Since I assume you want the switch indicator light to be illuminated whenever the light is on, you'll have to draw the power for that LED off the main LED output of the maxflex (LED+). You'll need a current limiting resistor in series with that connections so just a few milliamps of current will divert off to drive the indicator LED and the rest of the current will go to the main LEDs. 10ma is enough to drive most small LEDs. The voltage of the main output terminal will always be around the sum of the Vfs for the 7 XPG/XPEs. 7 * 3.2V = 22.4v will be the nominal voltage at the LED+ terminal. It'll vary some, but that won't make enough difference to matter. So the current limiting resistor will need to be (22.4 - 1.4) / .01 = 2100 ohms. The 1.4 is the typical Vf for a small indicator LED. So a 2k resistor in series will work fine.

    So, the LED+ terminal of the maxflex will connect both to the +terminal of your main LEDs and one side of the 2k ohm resistor. The other side of the 2k ohm resistor will connect to the +terminal of your switch indicator LED.

  3. #3
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    I've been emailing cutter about trying to see if they sell the kit w/o the housing so I can build my own. They still won't reply to me.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by chelboed
    I've been emailing cutter about trying to see if they sell the kit w/o the housing so I can build my own. They still won't reply to me.
    hey, go to trouties website - he is selling the housing there!!

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    Thank you...LOL...now re-read my post, dude ;0)

    (I want to build it)

  6. #6
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    18.5V battery might be too much

    I'd be really careful with that 18.5V battery. Assuming were talking about a 5 x lithium ion battery, it will actually put out 21V when fully charged (5 x 4.2V). Problem is the MaxFlex has a maximum input voltage of 20V, and in comments I've seen from the George @ TaskLED that 20V was considered a hard limit. So with that high a voltage you run the risk of blowing up the driver... expensive and somewhat difficult to replace once "permanently" bonded to the housing with AA.
    Last edited by kwarwick; 05-03-2010 at 11:43 AM.

  7. #7
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    I see you're using Lipo... I have plans to do the same. What are you going to do in regards to low voltage cutoff?
    Draft College Republicans

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwarwick
    I'd be really careful with that 18.5V battery. Assuming were talking about a 5 x lithium ion battery, it will actually put out 21V when fully charged (5 x 4.2V). Problem is the MaxFlex has a maximum input voltage of 20V, and in comments I've seen from the George @ TaskLED that 20V was considered a hard limit. So with that high a voltage you run the risk of blowing up the driver... expensive and somewhat difficult to replace once "permanently" bonded to the housing with AA.
    I took the risk with an 18.5v on my home made 7up (7 xpg though) and have had no problems and it has had lots of use. Fresh of the charger it's on the limit but as soon as the light is switched on (700ma and above) the under load voltage of the battery drops instantly to well under the safe 20v.

    I have my temp @ 70*

    Medium v = 18v Low v = 16.4 Cut off v = 15.6v

    Remember that the maxflex takes a minute from sensing the low voltage to cutting the power that's why I have set the extra .6 v on the cut off voltage as a lot can happen in a minute with lithium batteries at the end of discharge if one forgets to dim the light.

    I run mine @ 1000ma for high, any more and you produce a lot more heat but hardly any more light(if any), also a lot less run time just to produce more heat.

    I have had no problems with this set up in the UK weather with my housing, Trouties housing looks like it should run cooler than mine, though I have never actually seen one for real.
    Last edited by yetibetty; 05-03-2010 at 06:53 PM.

  9. #9
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    Yetibetty, is your 18.5v battery a Lipo pack or something made of up 18650 cells? Reason I ask is I originally made myself a 14.8v pack with four 18650 cells and noticed that the battery voltage sagged significantly under the load of the 7up on high... like in the order of 1 - 1.5v. I've since changed to a cheapie RC Lipo pack (12C) which sags .3v under the same load. Recently tried a friend's more expensive Lipo pack (rated at 20C) and it sagged only .02-.03v with the same load!

    So depending on the battery type and instantaneous current capability you could still be above 20v with an 18.5v pack.

  10. #10
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    kwarwick,

    True it will, or could matter if you use realy good batteries that don't sag much under load.

    Mine is a 5 cell 18650 pack that I made my self due to having the same problem as you with the 4 cell.

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    The real issue with the 20V max input rating of maxflex is due to the 2 input FETs. The 1st one is for reverse polarity protection and has a 20V max gate to source rating The second FET is for power management to the switcher IC and it has a max source to drain rating of 20V.

    So, what you are risking is damage to either/both of those FETs. The next 'weak' link is the input cap to the switcher IC and that's rated at 25V.

    The problem is that even with no load (driver electronically off), both FETs are going to see the battery voltage and that's when the damage will be done. The rest of the switcher core doesn't see the battery voltage until the driver is 'clicked' on and that circuitry can handle 25V and the battery voltage will have sagged at that point anyway...

    cheers,
    george.

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    Hi george,

    is it possible to flash the battery warn(low voltage) levels by the main leds in case i have no stat led connected?

    Or can these warn levels only be indicated by the stat led (which i dont't want to use)
    I was not able to get that point out of the descriptions

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whitedog1
    Hi george,

    is it possible to flash the battery warn(low voltage) levels by the main leds in case i have no stat led connected?

    Or can these warn levels only be indicated by the stat led (which i dont't want to use)
    I was not able to get that point out of the descriptions
    Yep
    See page 20-21
    http://www.taskled.com/leds/maxflexuni_v4.00.pdf

    8.5 FiveClicks–VoltageWarningStatus
    How (and how often) the circuit reports the low and medium voltage conditions is configured using this Menu option.
    The circuit reports the low voltage condition via the STAT pin on the PCB. STAT will drive high (~2.5V) to light the status LED and drive back to 0V to turn the status LED off. The STAT pin can drive a single 3mm or 5mm (at approximately 20 mA). If this feature is used, wire the 3mm or 5mm LED between STAT and GND. A red or amber LED is recommended for this use.
    Note: The STAT pin will light the status LED (if affixed) if the input voltage is greater than the V Low Setting but less than the V Med Setting. The STAT pin will pulse (flash the status LED) once per second when the input voltage is less than the V Low Setting. The STAT pin will double pulse (flash the status LED) once per second if the input voltage is less than the V Cut Off Setting.
    The STAT pin is pulsed once every time the light is turned on as a self-check that the status LED is functioning correctly.
    If the user does not want to wire a status LED to the STAT pin but still wants an indication of low voltage occurring, then the main LED can be set to flash at a specific interval to give a visual warning. How the main LED flashes is dependent on whether the light is in constant or strobe mode.

    Constant Mode: If the input voltage is greater than the V Low Setting but less than the V Med Setting, the main LED will briefly flash off once at the flash rate chosen with this Menu option (5 sec, 10 sec, 30 sec or 60 sec). This warning will time out after five sequences so the remaining battery capacity can be used without annoyance. As a reminder, the V Med warning sequence will repeat if the light is turned off/on, or if a higher level is chosen. The STAT pin will remain active with no timeout. If the input voltage is less than the Low Setting the main LED will flash off twice at the flash rate. This V Low warning sequence will continue until the Cut Off Setting is reached or recharged to above the V Med Setting. If the input voltage is less than the Cut Off Setting the main LED will flash off three times at the flash rate. This Cut Off warning sequence will continue until the light turns off (Cut Off enabled) or indefinitely (Warn Only enabled), see Sec 8.6. These sequences were chosen to give an obvious indication of battery status while still allowing use of the light for navigation.

    Strobe Mode: If the input voltage is greater than the V Low Setting but less than the V Med Setting, the main LED will do a slower strobe sequence for ~1 second at the flash rate chosen with this Menu option (5 sec, 10 sec, 30 sec or 60 sec). This sequence will occur five times as a warning, and then time out so as not to be annoying during use. As a reminder, the V- Med warning sequence will repeat if the light is turned off/on, or if a higher level is chosen. If the input voltage is less the Low Setting the main LED will do a faster strobe sequence for ~1 second at the flash rate. This V Low warning sequence will continue until the Cut Off occurs (if enabled) or indefinitely till the battery is discharged (Warn Only enabled) or recharged to above the V Med Setting. These sequences were chosen to give an obvious indication of battery status while still allowing use of the light for navigation.
    Last edited by znomit; 05-04-2010 at 03:12 AM.

  14. #14
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    Thank you znomit- great!
    seems i missed this part when scrolling through the manual

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    Hi All,

    Have just finished the build and am wanting to configure before I post shots.

    (Wiring the maxFlex is a chore but damn space is at a premium in the actual housing. Had to cut wires and resolder x 2 I know we all want smaller lights, but .....)

    I have populated the PCB with

    3 x XPE R3
    and
    4 x XPG R5

    and am running at 14.8v Lipo with 5200mah on tap

    Noting the mix of LEDs what is the optimal safe maximum current to run the maxflex at?

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fury25
    Noting the mix of LEDs what is the optimal safe maximum current to run the maxflex at?
    XPE are only rated at 1A, its a good place to start

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by znomit
    XPE are only rated at 1A, its a good place to start
    Many thanks.

    It was what I thought based on the CREE spec sheets, but always good to have the confirmation

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fury25
    Hi All,

    Have just finished the build and am wanting to configure before I post shots.

    (Wiring the maxFlex is a chore but damn space is at a premium in the actual housing. Had to cut wires and resolder x 2 I know we all want smaller lights, but .....)

    I have populated the PCB with

    3 x XPE R3
    and
    4 x XPG R5

    and am running at 14.8v Lipo with 5200mah on tap

    Noting the mix of LEDs what is the optimal safe maximum current to run the maxflex at?

    Alot will depend on your ambient temperatures when you want to run the light
    max I would go to is 1 amp anyways any higher and the heat will mount fast for little light gain .

    and dont forget to set the thermal protection to 60 or even 70 degrees

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fury25
    Hi All,

    Have just finished the build and am wanting to configure before I post shots.

    (Wiring the maxFlex is a chore but damn space is at a premium in the actual housing. Had to cut wires and resolder x 2 I know we all want smaller lights, but .....)

    I have populated the PCB with

    3 x XPE R3
    and
    4 x XPG R5

    and am running at 14.8v Lipo with 5200mah on tap

    Noting the mix of LEDs what is the optimal safe maximum current to run the maxflex at?
    I went with the 7 x XPG R5.

    I need a suitable battery, what is the details of yours?
    blah blah blah

  20. #20
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    I just got one from the big auctions house in the internet!

    € 34 shipped! 14.8v 5000mah 30c Brand name: Winforce

    It arrived completely balanced, didn' had time to solder connections and charge it - so no info on that!
    We will see how the quality goes after a couple of cycles!

    the dimensions are perfect to fit into a water bottle/toolbox!

  21. #21
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    Hi guys,

    Another question for you.

    Given the light's configurstion, what would be a recomended temperature for the maxflex's thermal protection feature?

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by troutie-mtb
    .

    and dont forget to set the thermal protection to 60 or even 70 degrees



    try 60 and if it keeps dimming then go to 70

  23. #23
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    I've got 4 spare brand new 18.5 volt Lipo's for sale - £35 each delivered (UK only)

  24. #24
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    My lipo's have a 35C rating and i was worried they were low.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by brad72
    My lipo's have a 35C rating and i was worried they were low.
    If you're looking at the "C" rating for low price no name lipo's off of places like ebay or chinese internet sites, then don't bother. They are pure fiction. That doesn't means the batteries are useless, it just means the "C" ratings are pretty much meaningless. It's not just that they are exaggerated, and you can still get a relative comparison between batteries. My testing has shown that they are completely bogus. You can buy a "no name" 15C battery and get much higher output currents and less voltage sag than from another battery that is rated 35C.

    'C' ratings for name brands like Thunder Power and Graupner are accurate.

  26. #26
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    I always thought the ebay ones were a bit exaggerated. I have the thunder powers for my RC helicopters. cost a bit more but do a very good job.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by MtbMacgyver
    If you're looking at the "C" rating for low price no name lipo's off of places like ebay or chinese internet sites, then don't bother. They are pure fiction. That doesn't means the batteries are useless, it just means the "C" ratings are pretty much meaningless. It's not just that they are exaggerated, and you can still get a relative comparison between batteries. My testing has shown that they are completely bogus. You can buy a "no name" 15C battery and get much higher output currents and less voltage sag than from another battery that is rated 35C.

    'C' ratings for name brands like Thunder Power and Graupner are accurate.
    In fact, some of the higher C rated lipo packs are actually more of a pain in the ass than the lower rated ones and pretty much unnecessary for the relatively low current our lights require. I had to solder a connector onto a 30C 4s lipo pack which came with 10AWG wire. Soldering 10 gauge wire is a serious pain in the arse compared to the 12AWG my 12C packs came with. Just something to consider...

  28. #28
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    agree, soldering on the dean connectors or similar can require a massive amount of heat, one of those situations where 3 hands would be nice

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by ozlongboarder
    I went with the 7 x XPG R5.

    I need a suitable battery, what is the details of yours?
    Oz, browse the store for this listing
    He has balance chargers, charge bags and a huge range of batteries. I can't comment on C rates as I don't know how to test that but I do have a couple of mates that have bought from him and are very happy with the quality and run times from their lights.

    No probs with postage to Aus either

  30. #30
    what a joke
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    Quote Originally Posted by emu26
    Oz, browse the store for this listing
    He has balance chargers, charge bags and a huge range of batteries. I can't comment on C rates as I don't know how to test that but I do have a couple of mates that have bought from him and are very happy with the quality and run times from their lights.

    No probs with postage to Aus either
    Thanks for the link mate. Will check it out.
    blah blah blah

  31. #31
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    you can't beat a good balance charger for the lipo's. Mine gets all the cells to 4.2v every time.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by chelboed
    I've been emailing cutter about trying to see if they sell the kit w/o the housing so I can build my own. They still won't reply to me.
    Who did you mail I never got your request?
    Cheers
    WeLight

    Cutter Electronics Pty Ltd www.cutter.com.au

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    Troutie 7 Up Built

    My Troutie Seven Up is built and ready to run (rainy night ride planned for tonight).

    Leds and optics are from Rav: http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/sho...d.php?t=217586 (wide optics for bar mounting).

    MaxFlex from George www.taskled.com (loving the threemode setting).

    Case direct from Troutie www.troutie.com.

    Lupine mount from www.geomangear.com.

    Battery connector is an EC3 - good and cheap on ebay.

    Will report in after the ride...
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Troutie/Cutter 7 UP-troutie_seven_lupine_mount.jpg  

    Troutie/Cutter 7 UP-troutie_seven_lupine_mount_2.jpg  


  34. #34
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    Nice job on the build. I'm particularly intrigued by your Lupine mounts and also would be interested in beam shots given your choice of wide optics.

    Here's two that I built up... the silver one is using XPE R2 neutral white and the black is using XPG R4 neutral white. The bar mounts are Electron, not the greatest fit for 25.4 bars but work really well with oversize 31.8 bars. The cables are Magicshine extension cable cut in half. The battery is a 4s 14.8v LiPo pack with 3950mha capacity.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Troutie/Cutter 7 UP-p1000175.jpg  


  35. #35
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    kwarwick,

    May I ask where you got that nice cell checker? I have searched for ages for one of those. I only have one of the horrible little things that flash up the reading of one cell at a time.

  36. #36
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    You can get a cool looking touch screen (dual screen / single screen) version from batteryspace.com. (I think)


    Crap...shows "out of stock":


  37. #37
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    BVD-Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by yetibetty
    kwarwick,

    May I ask where you got that nice cell checker? I have searched for ages for one of those. I only have one of the horrible little things that flash up the reading of one cell at a time.
    eBay is where I got mine. One of the hk hobby stores had it listed too, but when I actually ordered it I was informed they were not currently available so I went the eBay route. Search for "BVD-Pro" and you'll find it.

  38. #38
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    I got THIS one and it works really well! you can check the voltages, balance your lipo or discarge it to a desired level(for longer storage)

  39. #39
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    It's been a while, so time I posted up some photos.

    Essentially built up the light as a gift so tried to make it look and packaged it as 'fancee' as possible.

    So here it is! - will hopefully post up some comparative photos on full power for Troutie 7Up / Upgraded Lupine Betty / Magicshine / Cygolite Trion.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Troutie/Cutter 7 UP-p6291102-resized.jpg  

    Troutie/Cutter 7 UP-p6291103_resized.jpg  

    Troutie/Cutter 7 UP-p6291084_resized.jpg  

    Troutie/Cutter 7 UP-p6301108_resized.jpg  

    Troutie/Cutter 7 UP-p6301109_resized.jpg  


  40. #40
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    Smile

    wowww thats one prbuild and packed light.
    U guys keep amazing all the time!!!

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark2c
    Battery connector is an EC3 - good and cheap on ebay.

    Will report in after the ride...
    I tried those connectors and removed them as fast as I soldered them. Bleh!
    I get my boards at Lux-RC.com

  42. #42
    A waste of time it is is
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    Looks beautiful, but why have you boxed it with MS lights?

    Have you got a link for where to get the switch? Is it weather proof?

  43. #43
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    Looks like a standard anti-vandal/security switch, usually IP65 rated.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by emu26
    Looks beautiful, but why have you boxed it with MS lights?

    Have you got a link for where to get the switch? Is it weather proof?
    Hi emu26,

    Had a look at Jaycar etc but could not find the type of switch i wanted - too long/wrong colour etc

    This switch was sourced from Digi-Key - Part # EG4732-ND (@ $16.28/unit). This is the smallest depth version of such a switch that I could find and it was still a very, Very, VERY tight fit even with the solder lugs bent outwards to give me an extra 2-3mm of a space - the Troutie case appears to be a snug fit even with a more standard switch .

    Another similar product that would have made by life easier would have been Digi-Key - Part # EG4572-ND ( black plastic type switch + blue led in centre of push button @$8.78/unit), however i liked the look of the other one better.

    Regarding the joint packaging: convenience - everything in one bag and it sort of looks cool

    Hope this helps

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