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  1. #1
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    New question here. Nite Hawk K2 Digital Emitter Lightset

    I was wondering if anyone tried this lightset or saw it in action?
    Would it be a good replacement for a 15watt halogen?
    What are the light guru's suggesting?



    At MEC
    $159.00 CAD
    Made in Canada

    Nite Hawk K2 Digital Emitter Lightset

    A turbo version of the Emitter Pro with extra bells and whistles. Brilliant technology is packed into a compact, sleek little package that's quick to attach and remove. The light source is extremely bright, with custom-engineered lenses that harnesses its power and a life expectancy of 50,000 hours.

    Choose from a wide range of settings, including flash, strobe, and beacon, for different conditions and varying burn times. The Power Reserve mode will detect a low battery and automatically power down to 10% mode to extend run time. The pod pivots and rotates for maximum range of visibility and is resistant to weather and temperature extremes. Battery is quick to recharge.

    Uses revolutionary, super-bright Luxeon III / K2 Emitter technology for beyond-LED brightness.
    Total Internal Reflection (T.I.R.) optical lenses, engineered by Nite Hawk® to harness the power of the Emitter.
    An advanced microprocessor maintains the light at a constant brightness throughout the selected power setting.
    Three high-power settings (25%, 50%, and 100%) and 2 extended power settings (5% and 10%). On 100% setting it's about as bright as a 15W halogen bulb.
    Run times are: 4.75 hours at 100%, 12 hours at 50%, 23 hours at 25%, 55 hours at 10%, and 74 hours (3 days) at 5%.
    Five flash settings: 10% flash, 50% flash, beacon, strobe, and S.O.S.
    Flash setting run times are: at least 3 days (76 hours) at 50%, 9 days (220 hours) at 10%, 5 days (126 hours) on beacon, 20 hours on strobe, and 24 hours on S.O.S.
    Compact and lightweight aluminum head.
    Quick-release handlebar mount requires no tools and fits both standard and 31.8mm oversized handlebars.
    Pod rotates 360 degrees and pivots up and down.
    Includes a rechargeable 6V 4.0Ah NiMH battery pack and an ultra-fast digital charger with a safety timer to protect against overcharging.
    Switch is an easy-to-use push button on the pod.

  2. #2
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    There’s a review of an earlier Nite Hawk here.

    I’m not sure if you would be happy with this light for serious off-road riding by itself. They’re pushing the fact that the new light uses a K2 emitter, but not all K2’s are created equal. Depending on the emitter used they may be no better then the old three watt devices.

    Note that the old Nite Hawk only had a single 1 watt device, so the new K2 Nite Hawk will be noticeably brighter regardless, however depending what you want to do with it I still doubt it will be enough light for you. I’d guesstimate it would be between a 10 to 15 watt halogen in brightness at the most, but with a much whiter colour temperature.

    To give you an idea as to what is about at that price and power range as far as LED based lights go, check out the links here and here.

    Personally as a stand alone light I would be thinking of lights with at least two or three 3 watt emitters as a minimum for serious trail riding if you want to go LED, especially if you’re comparing it to a 15 watt halogen.

    To give us a better idea, what lights (if you have a set) are you currently running and what do you (or want to) use them for?

    Dave.

  3. #3
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    I ride usually at night once a week (XC/Trail) 2 to 3hours.
    For almost 2 years I used "Smart Lights 10watt" one bar and one helmet. In North America they called "Planet Bike Insight". You can check'em out here at MEC.
    I have been very happy with them (got them used) but now one of them starts to play up and I want to get something a bit better as my night vision drops (I'm not getting younger).
    I got family in Canada and they are members at MEC so it's easy to get stuff shipped to Australia.
    I also looked at the HID from Planet Bike but its a bit pricey for a product I haven't tried and seen.
    I also have a family member in NY that is visiting us end of the year, and I think that she could get me a TrailTech Eclipse HID or a Cateye Double Shotbut but I am unsure about witch of this light set will be best for me. I read a lot about them, probably too much and I can't make a descison.
    To many choice in these days.

  4. #4
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    Yeah it’s a hard decision at this price range. From what you describe I don’t think you would be happy with the Nite Hawk. The Cat Eye Double Shot would be alright, but you’d probably be happier with a light with three 3 watt emitters. That’s starting to get expensive though.

    The Trail Tech is quite popular and an excellent light at that price, but I’m not a fan of battery space, as you may have found if you’re doing some reading on MTBR. Apart from my concerns with their packs, I don’t think many of the Aussie guys have had too much luck with their packs and chargers either.

    Dave.

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    I purchased the Nite Hawk K2 emitter last week and have been out a few times with it already, just got back in about an hour ago actually.

    Great light. Would highly recommend it, but it is my first decent bicycle light so I don't have any halogens to compare against.

    Can1

    btw... the packaging that it comes in says "20 watt halogen equivalent", although I don't know if that is marketing hype or not?

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    Cool, let us know how you go with it.

    I’m getting sick of this “equivalent to 40 gazillion watts” BS that the lighting manufacturers are feeding us. Wattage is not an indication of a lights output. I can tell you right now that a single Luxeon 3 or Luxeon K2 will not be anywhere near a 20 watt halogen in terms of light output.

    As I have mentioned in a previous post recently, you will find that most manufacturers will measure their light output in lumens or lux. Simply put lumens is a measurement of total output, while lux is measured at a set distance and measures a lights ability to illuminate an object.

    To give you a rough idea, an average 10 watt halogen will be around 200-260 lumens depending on bulb quality. The best K2 currently on the market is rated at 140 lumens at best, which is a lot less then a 20 watt halogen would obviously produce. The whiter colour temperature of Luxeon LED’s will help make the light appear brighter, but only to a certain extent.

  7. #7
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    Man, I totally agree. Give us a unit of measurement that means something!

    Quote Originally Posted by Low_Rider
    Cool, let us know how you go with it.

    I’m getting sick of this “equivalent to 40 gazillion watts” BS that the lighting manufacturers are feeding us. Wattage is not an indication of a lights output. I can tell you right now that a single Luxeon 3 or Luxeon K2 will not be anywhere near a 20 watt halogen in terms of light output.

    As I have mentioned in a previous post recently, you will find that most manufacturers will measure their light output in lumens or lux. Simply put lumens is a measurement of total output, while lux is measured at a set distance and measures a lights ability to illuminate an object.

    To give you a rough idea, an average 10 watt halogen will be around 200-260 lumens depending on bulb quality. The best K2 currently on the market is rated at 140 lumens at best, which is a lot less then a 20 watt halogen would obviously produce. The whiter colour temperature of Luxeon LED’s will help make the light appear brighter, but only to a certain extent.

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    740 lumen output

    p.s. on the same packaging label as the 20-watt equivalent statement is the lumen output: 740 lumens. Hope that provides a more accurate guage of the true light level for those who have other lights to compare against.

    I went out again tonight for ride. It's just an awesome light.

    Can1

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by can1
    p.s. on the same packaging label as the 20-watt equivalent statement is the lumen output: 740 lumens. Hope that provides a more accurate guage of the true light level for those who have other lights to compare against.

    I went out again tonight for ride. It's just an awesome light.

    Can1
    740 lumens?

    That sounds too good to be true. Even the high end K2s only put out 140 lm each when you run them at 1.5 amps. I have a triple Luxeon III star LED light and it is very impressive for a led system. It draws 1 amp and gets hotter than the hubs of he!!... I would say it is better than my 10 watt halogen, but not up to the level of a 20 watt. The K2 is more efficient than the luxeon III but it won't be twice as good... I'd sure like to know how they get 740 lm out of an led - that makes it better than a HID!

    Cheers
    GEVELTERSCHMIDT RACING

  10. #10
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    I went for the Planet Bike Alias SC at MEC...same price, but I put a little more faith in the 15W halogen. So far, it has done really well for me, even in the dark, rainy rides I've been doing in the evening here in Edmonton as of late.
    As if four times wasn't enough-> Psycho Mike's 2013 Ride to Conquer Cancer Page

    Moran? Let your opinion be free -> F88me

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by James
    Give us a unit of measurement that means something!
    And it’s not as though it’s hard to get a lux measurement at a few regular intervals, although to be honest at this stage I’d even be happy if everyone just provided a simple lumen measurement.


    Quote Originally Posted by can1
    On the same packaging label as the 20-watt equivalent statement is the lumen output: 740 lumens.
    Are you sure that the value you mention is actually referenced as lumens? It’s interesting that Nite Hawk would do something silly like that with their marketing. Judging by their website, apart from a few silly marketing terms they seem to be reasonably honest about their systems as far as the claims they make.

    Dave.

  12. #12
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    The label actually say's "740 Lumen Output Approximate Halogen Equivalent: 20 Watts".

    I actually sent an e-mail to MEC thinking that it was a mis-print, and meaning to say 140 Lumen output, and received a reply from Nite Hawk through MEC indicating that 740 Lumens is correct. The Nite Hawk website is supposed to be updated with the new K2 information sometime before Oct. 12/15 according to Nite Hawk.

    The beam is fairly focused, and very bright.

    Can1

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    I do not doubt you, but what they have told you is a load of rubbish!

    I long for the day that a single LED Emitter could produce that kind of light output, but sadly it won’t be for a fair few years yet.

  14. #14
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    can1

    Quote Originally Posted by can1
    The label actually say's "740 Lumen Output Approximate Halogen Equivalent: 20 Watts".

    I actually sent an e-mail to MEC thinking that it was a mis-print, and meaning to say 140 Lumen output, and received a reply from Nite Hawk through MEC indicating that 740 Lumens is correct. The Nite Hawk website is supposed to be updated with the new K2 information sometime before Oct. 12/15 according to Nite Hawk.

    The beam is fairly focused, and very bright.

    Can1
    Thanks for your info.
    Can you compare your light with some of the people your riding with?

  15. #15
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    Hey Can 1.

    Was looking at the same light.

    Have you been out with it more? Still like it?

    Let us know.
    Quote Originally Posted by Khemical
    wizzler is a must. although then it consumes all your waking and sleeping thoughts until you can return.

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    I have been out once since then, still enjoying it. It is bright, but a fairly focused beam, it does not flood out at all. The response I received from Nite Hawk indicated that the light enters their patented optical lens at one lumen amount and exits at another? I'm not an optical engineer so cannot substantiate the 740 lumen claim, but the focused beam is bright.

    I have not been out with anyone yet, just solo, but as soon as I do and have something to compare it against, I will post the comparison. My friend forgot his battery at the last a 24 hour race this summer so is lightless. Once he gets a new one, we can compare.

    Most of the stuff I have done so far with it was pretty mild double-track stuff. I hope to possibly trying some hilly single track tomorrow night if the rain holds off (it has been raining here a lot in the last 1.5 weeks). I will let you know how it fairs on the single track.

    Can1

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by can1
    clip... The response I received from Nite Hawk indicated that the light enters their patented optical lens at one lumen amount and exits at another? I'm not an optical engineer so cannot substantiate the 740 lumen claim, but the focused beam is bright.
    clip...

    Can1
    I'm really interested in what you think of this light when you compare it to another system. It sounds like a very effective spot light, but it doesn't have the output over a very wide angle. The Night Hawk explanation is pretty basic - I think the marketing guys are assuming no one will actually call them on the lumen claim . 'cause its just plain wrong .

    Can you tell how many LEDs are actually in the headlight? Just curious .

    Cheers
    GEVELTERSCHMIDT RACING

  18. #18
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    A single emitter in the light. I will let you know once I have another light to compare against.

    Can1

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by airman
    I'm really interested in what you think of this light when you compare it to another system. It sounds like a very effective spot light, but it doesn't have the output over a very wide angle. The Night Hawk explanation is pretty basic - I think the marketing guys are assuming no one will actually call them on the lumen claim . 'cause its just plain wrong .

    Can you tell how many LEDs are actually in the headlight? Just curious .

    Cheers
    Its probably 740 foot candles. 740 foot candles would be 68.746 lumens which would be just about right for a T bin K2.

  20. #20
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    Someone’s on the ball! I was trying to find ways to make numbers add up, but it just wasn’t working out. I wasn’t using the old brain very well!

    It’s a shame Nite Hawk are trying to hide the light by marketing it with cloudy numbers. One day they’ll learn that they’re better off honestly telling it how it is.


    There really needs to be consistency between manufacturers in the way they measure their lights. As mentioned earlier, measuring lux at a number of intervals would be a lot more useful to the consumer. At least it would give a better indication of beam shape and the lights ability to actually light an object.

    I have heard that Cat Eye are currently taking steps towards advertising their lights with measurements that are worthwhile, although their current challenge is in educating the consumer. Educating the consumer while keeping it basic and not flooding them with technical terms is their current focus. I’m sure some pretty diagrams would easily get the point across in a shop situation though.

    Let’s hope they see it through, and other manufacturers follow.


    Dave.

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    There was no demo unit in MEC so I picked one up today. There is no way the light is near a 20w halogen. A 10 w flood puts out more light. The beam is a laser beam spot which is totally useless for trails. I can't ride without a flood bulb. My 10 w flood is significantly better for me then the 15 w spot bulb or that useless Nite Hawk. I will post some pictures later to show the differences. As usual with pictures an attempt will be made to keep the same setting throughout and each camera is different so don't flame me if I don't use the right ASA setting or other camera settings. Some people seem to get a little touchy.

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    OK, no pictures as my camera has a wacky CCD sensor right now and I get too much noise. The 10 w has wide coverage of the trail and the Nite Hawk K2 Emitter is so weak I could never use it. I would be scared to use it on the road. At least cars could see you. The light is so concentrated that you see nothing but the couple foot area that is illuminated by the light. Damn now I have to find some way to run my AA cells to feed my Vistalite heads. My old batteries died from lack of use and I have piles of AA's so I'm off to rig them up (5 cells). Once my 10w flood dies I will be looking to make my own LED lights.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Low_Rider
    Note that the old Nite Hawk only had a single 1 watt device, so the new K2 Nite Hawk will be noticeably brighter regardless
    No the originals used a 3W Luxeon... I've got other 3W Luxeon lights and the nitehawk emitters were identical brightness. I've also got 1W ones and they're lower output. The new versions are repackaged with seperate battery packs on a longer cord, and slimmer head unit. The K2 uses a 5W LED, the other version continues to use a 3W version.

    Personally as a stand alone light I would be thinking of lights with at least two or three 3 watt emitters as a minimum for serious trail riding if you want to go LED, especially if you’re comparing it to a 15 watt halogen.
    You can't just base a LED's usefulness of wattage because the bulbs are so much more efficient than HIDs or Halogens. You have to look at the focusing and reflectors being used too. I've got 3W's with a much wider flood beam than NiteHawk uses in their lights. Its also possible to find amazing little multiple LED units (using the 20 candlepower LEDs) which can easily equal the brightness of a single 3W LED, but with far greater battery life, and much lower cost. Princess auto stores in canada have these lights for $7 each...



    I adapted them using 1" scope rings ($20/pair) and planet-bike quickcam mounts ($3 each at MEC). They run on 3AAA alkaline batteries, get about 20 hours of total life, have eight 20 candlepower LEDs and a reflector in a waterproof machined aluminium housing, push button on/off, and complete are about a quarter pound. They're more a flood pattern so they're good for illuminating a wide swath of road/trail about 30 feet in front of the bike if bar mounted.
    Last edited by DeeEight; 09-30-2006 at 12:00 PM.
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by bcboy
    There was no demo unit in MEC so I picked one up today. There is no way the light is near a 20w halogen. A 10 w flood puts out more light. The beam is a laser beam spot which is totally useless for trails. I can't ride without a flood bulb. My 10 w flood is significantly better for me then the 15 w spot bulb or that useless Nite Hawk. I will post some pictures later to show the differences. As usual with pictures an attempt will be made to keep the same setting throughout and each camera is different so don't flame me if I don't use the right ASA setting or other camera settings. Some people seem to get a little touchy.
    Depends on the halogen bulb... I've got 10W halogens which have less light from one brand than 6W from another brand.
    I don't post to generate business for myself or make like I'm better than sliced bread

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    No the originals used a 3W Luxeon...
    Ooops, that’s the second time I’ve done that in a recent thread now! Sorry folks I can’t get it out of my head.


    You can't just base a LED's usefulness of wattage because the bulbs are so much more efficient than HIDs or Halogens.
    Yep I totally agree, have a read of my other posts in this thread where we are discussing useful measurements. The point I was trying to get across in that earlier post was that the newer K2 Digital Emitter should have more light output in theory, but now that firstrax has done the numbers it appears that they are using a pathetic bin, so there probably won’t be much of a noticeable difference if any at all.

    Depending on the brand and bin of the LED devices, many aren’t terribly more efficient then a Halogen, and very few higher wattage devices have a better lumen per watt ratio then most HID systems. I’m not saying that there aren’t devices out there that are in fact more efficient though. As mentioned in this thread it is easy to build a HID killer with a large array of low wattage devices, but housing such a light and being able to market it is the challenge. As a result most manufacturers are making the most of higher output, but power hungry devices and trying to get as much light out of a smaller package as possible.

    Dave.

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