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  1. #1
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    Need more THROW!

    I have been playing with led lights for a little while now and most recently have built a Troutie 7up which is fantastic. I am looking to build something that has a lot more "throw" as in range, more like a spotlight. I have been looking on the cutter website and it looks as though the MC-E leds have a better range of optics/reflectors that might give me the greater range i want. something like the Boomerang reflectors for example? can anyone let me know what kind of range i would get with them, or are there any other optics/reflectors that people can recommend?

    i am also playing with the idea of building some spotlights for my car if i can make something with enough range (so in other words to much range is not enough)

    any advice would be appreciated

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by nexus666
    I have been playing with led lights for a little while now and most recently have built a Troutie 7up which is fantastic. I am looking to build something that has a lot more "throw" as in range, more like a spotlight. I have been looking on the cutter website and it looks as though the MC-E leds have a better range of optics/reflectors that might give me the greater range i want. something like the Boomerang reflectors for example? can anyone let me know what kind of range i would get with them, or are there any other optics/reflectors that people can recommend?

    i am also playing with the idea of building some spotlights for my car if i can make something with enough range (so in other words to much range is not enough)

    any advice would be appreciated
    Tried an aspheric?

  3. #3
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    aspheric?

  4. #4
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    The boom's don't have a good throw with the MCE!!
    If I remember right, the Iris Optic gives the best throw with the MCE!

    Some of the spot Optics coupled with the XP-E led's will give you good throw too

  5. #5
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    Ah ok i see, thats the kind of info im after, cheers.

  6. #6
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    The best I have used with the MC-E is the Fraen narrow reflector. Good throw with enough spill for a bike light.

    I have only looked at an Iris in a test rig in the shop. Good looking beam in a test but no trail time to really see.

    Ledil CMC series is not a thrower.

    Carclo 20mm series do not throw.

    Aspheric lenses are like a magnifying glass. They focus quite tight with little spill when mounted properly to the LED. They usually project an image of the LED die. Used with the MC-E that gives you a squarish beam with a dark "crosshair" artifact in the beam

  7. #7
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    I tried about 10 different combinations with the MCE, the best optic for throw by far, was the Iris. The MCE may not be quite as good as the XPE for throw ( I only bought a couple of MCE so don't know ) but will go a clear 60-65m.

    It's important to get the optic centered exactly, you will gain another 5-10m ( as I found out )

    [URL="http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=558922"]
    Last edited by rickh1; 05-14-2010 at 02:40 AM.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by rickh1
    I tried about 10 different combinations with the MCE, the best optic for throw by far, was the Iris. The MCE may not be quite as good as the XPE for throw ( I only bought a couple of MCE so don't know ) but will go a clear 60-65mm.

    It's important to get the optic centered exactly, you will gain another 5-10m ( as I found out )

    [URL="http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=558922"]

    Im using XPG , which is similar to XPE? so are you saying they would both have more throw than MCE? the XPG/XPE seem to have a much smaller range of optics avaliable, thats why i was hoping there was something more effective for long range usage with the MCE.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by nexus666
    Im using XPG , which is similar to XPE? so are you saying they would both have more throw than MCE? the XPG/XPE seem to have a much smaller range of optics avaliable, thats why i was hoping there was something more effective for long range usage with the MCE.
    you can change the XP-G to XP-E'S, due to the samaller die size the XP-E will have a more focused beam with the same optic and therefore more throw!

    Cutter is offering the 7up with Xp-e's R3! with the 6 optic you should get a good throwing bike light with enough spill to see enough in front of the bike...

  10. #10
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    Some of my observations using various torches ( MC-E, P-7, SST-50. XP-G, XRE-R2 ):

    MC-E using a 38mm reflector: My best throwing torch at over 200ft with fresh battery. Nice over all beam pattern for the helmet. Slight artifact in the beam but not too noticeable on the trail.

    P-7 C-bin using 30mm reflector: Nice light for the bars with plenty of throw just not as far as the MCE. No artifacts in beam. good spill.

    SST-50 using a standard 25mm drop-in module/reflector: Slightly wider beam than the MCE so a little less throw ( about 150ft on high ). However the overall beam pattern is great for all around use for the helmet or bars. Output about 550-600lm on high. Right now I have been using this torch a lot for helmet duties because of the 3 very usable modes, beam pattern and small footprint on my helmet.

    XP-G R-5 using standard 25mm drop-in module/spot reflector: This torch has a nice bright center spot that reaches about 160ft for ground throw. Not as wide a beam as the MC-E
    but longer running than the MCE. Two or three of these in combo could make an excellent helmet lamp ( using the right single optics/reflectors )

    Right now I'm considering building a small DIY helmet lamp using the XP-G's and 25mm drop-in reflectors, similar to what Scar has done using his XR-E's. I recently discovered that a Cree XR-E P-4 ( drop-in ) reflector works well with the XPG and provides a nice medium beam pattern. I'm thinking two narrow and one medium reflector might just make one heck of a nice helmet light. Two spot XPG's in tandem coupled with the single medium should reach the 200ft range and still have some nice over-all spill to light up the trail. I need to experiment more to see what combo works the best and still be small enough not to over weight my helmet.

  11. #11
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    Im using XPG , which is similar to XPE? so are you saying they would both have more throw than MCE? the XPG/XPE seem to have a much smaller range of optics avaliable, thats why i was hoping there was something more effective for long range usage with the MCE.
    From what I've read on here, the XPE using a 35mm optic seems like the go for long distant light. I'm waiting for quazzle to complete the MC in his XPE/XPG triple to use in my next light build.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vancbiker
    The best I have used with the MC-E is the Fraen narrow reflector. Good throw with enough spill for a bike light.
    I'd have to agree with Vancbiker that the Fraen (part number: FRC-N1-MCE-0R available from Arrow for $2.18) is a very good thrower. You can easily light up trees 300+ feet away.

    In my experience the MCE/reflector combination works best as a helmet light when trail riding. The central spot lets you spot turns in the trail from a long way off. The side spill is handy for spotting and ducking low hanging branches. It makes a very respectable road light, but you'll need a way to dim it to avoid blinding drivers. On the road I usually run my light at half power. Drivers sometimes still flash their highbeams at me. I wonder what they think when I flash my light to full power for a half second

    If you want a slightly less intense spot, you can step drill out the base of the reflector. This allows you to position the MCE a bit in front of the focal point and you get a slightly wider center spot. Don't go too far with this or you start to get very noticeable artifacts.

    Mark
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  13. #13
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    thanks for all the info guys, its all very helpfull. i actually have an MCE luying around so im going to order Fraen and see how it goes.

  14. #14
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    I am curious as to what people think in their head as distance or long throw.. I say this as last night I was out on my local trail and on the way back to the carpark entrance is a long (250mt) straight piece of road with a gate at the entrance with a non reflective notice telling you to close the gate behind you.

    Well I have recently changed my lights and last night I did a comparison and noted that with just my Lupine Wilma on (old version not 1100L version) that I was able to see a good 20 or 30 meters into the pathway. I now have a 7 UP and when I put that on as well you could clearly see the mid distance fill in and the depth jumped to about a 100mts; which is seriously good but from memory, my old 30w HID light with less midrange than the 7 UP or at least a different midrange, was always able to pick out the gate some 250mts away and the difference was noticeable.. is this the sort of depth people are talking about because I am not too sure if LED's of any guise will ever be able to reach this sort of distance without the aid of some sort of reflector.

  15. #15
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    50 or so meters of throw is plenty for the trails I ride and speeds I am capable of. I don't really care for too much spill as I find it distracting to have the woods to my sides lit (too many weird shadows).

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by EFMax
    I am not too sure if LED's of any guise will ever be able to reach this sort of distance without the aid of some sort of reflector.
    What do you mean? The optics are some sort of reflector.

    The 10mm optics just don't throw, the beam is spread of 16 degrees. You would be better off using a triple with a tight 10deg optic.
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  17. #17
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    What do you mean? The optics are some sort of reflector.
    What I meant was some form of additional reflector.. on the HID, the light unit is housed in a 35mm reflector so although the beam is of 12 degrees (as opposed to the same unit's flood of 28 degrees) it is able to really throw that beam down the road.

    I think also for me, you can never have too much light at night when off road, because going down some daft hills in the woods at 30mph (440 feet per sec) at midnight, a light that can show me what is ahead of me 880 feet away (300ish meters) is only giving me 2 seconds of advance vision and recently in the same woods without my 30w HID light, I hit a downhill path where some idiot had dragged a tree log into the path of the gully I was riding (probably kids who thought it would be funny) and I just did not have enough reaction time to avoid it because my lights at the time (a combo equal to about 1300L) were just not up to giving me that information fast enough.. and no matter how good I think I am in daylight, at night its a whole new game..

    CORRECTION: I think also for me, you can never have too much light at night when off road, because going down some daft hills in the woods at 30mph (44 feet per sec) at midnight, a light that can show me what is a head of me 88 feet away (30ish meters) is only giving me 2 seconds of advance vision
    Last edited by EFMax; 05-15-2010 at 08:25 AM.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by EFMax
    What I meant was some form of additional reflector.. on the HID, the light unit is housed in a 35mm reflector so although the beam is of 12 degrees (as opposed to the same unit's flood of 28 degrees) it is able to really throw that beam down the road.

    I think also for me, you can never have too much light at night when off road, because going down some daft hills in the woods at 30mph (440 feet per sec) at midnight, a light that can show me what is head of me 880 feet away (300ish meters) is only giving me 2 seconds of advance vision and recently in the same woods without my 30w HID light, I hit a downhill path where some idiot had dragged a tree log into the path of the gully I was riding (probably kids who thought it would be funny) and I just did not have enough reaction time to avoid it because my lights at the time (a combo equal to about 1300L) were just not up to giving me that information fast enough.. and no matter how good I think I am in daylight, at night its a whole new game..
    The LEDs just cant pump out the same power as the HID unless we use a few of them. I'm sure this baby will throw better watt for watt than the HID. But nobody wants three of them on the front of their bikes.
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by znomit
    The LEDs just cant pump out the same power as the HID unless we use a few of them. I'm sure this baby will throw better watt for watt than the HID. But nobody wants three of them on the front of their bikes.
    Of course you are right.... but I am just greedy and want it all for less.. lol..

  20. #20
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    I've built an MCE with a Fraen narrow reflector and it's probably the best light I've done as far as beam goes.

    That's compared to.....dare I say it.... Magicshine (very close to MCE beam); triple XPG + R2; 2 (25mm) x drop-ins; 2 x XRE R4's.

    I've only used it as a helmet light (does a good job) as I haven't made a bar mount for it yet.
    I think it will be a good bar light though as it has good spread and decent beam length.

    Next time around I'd use a different driver with low beam. As someone else said it needs low beam to not annoy/blind drivers.

    I had broken wires on it the other night riding winding single and hills and just rode with the triple XPG on the bars. I really needed that MCE to be comfortable.

  21. #21
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    Think you'll find 440fps is 300mph, thats quite a pace you can ride at

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlisterG
    Think you'll find 440fps is 300mph, thats quite a pace you can ride at
    sorry, got my zeros mixed up but I know you understand what I am saying.. gosh, if only and on a bike too.. will edit to make it make more sense.. cheers

  23. #23
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    I compared the Fraen 13.5 degree reflector with the Iris and found the Iris had better throw. If you're buying this gear from Cutter, get them both it's only an extra $6.99

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by rickh1
    I compared the Fraen 13.5 degree reflector with the Iris and found the Iris had better throw.
    I do need to build something with the Iris. It did make a nice beam when I tested it in my shop. Too bad it is so large, though that seems to be a requirement to get a nice beam with large die sizes.

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