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  1. #1
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    Marwi Bullet - XML - 2800ma Multi Mode driver

    I thought I would show the parts combo/solution that I came up with on the Marwi Bullet housings.

    Parts:
    Marwi bullet housing
    Judco Flat SPST latching switch
    XML T6 star
    Custom machined heat sink
    Custom machined aluminum reflector

    First a new heat sink was needed. The nice part about the XML is it is not as tall as a P7 and so the heat sink does not have to sit way back in the angled part of the housing. The heat sink sides are straight, which is way easier to cut on a CNC machine.
    The heat sink is pressed in as far as it will go in the straight walled section. I still needed a bit more depth and so I cut a .0625" round section in the center of the .125" thick heat sink. The recessed hole is a bit larger than the XML because the LED is not in the exact center of the star, so you need a bit of wiggle room.
    The heat sink also has a notch so the wires can pass from front to the back where the driver is. No extra steps needed to drill tiny wire holes. Let the CNC machine do that for you

    The heat sink is glued in place using Artic Alumina thermal expoxy. It is pressed into the housing, but the housings are not a perfect circle and things expand when they get hot so, the thermal adhesive is needed, IMO.







    The switch and driver sit behind the heat sink and there is plenty of room because the heat sink is so far forward in the housing. For extra security against something shorting, I put a couple small pieces of electrical tape on both sides of the driver board. The driver is the 2800ma multi mode driver set to star #3, which is low-medium-high.
    See this post for more info on the driver board.
    2800ma AMC7135 multi mode driver boards

    The power cord enters through a grommet and has a wire tie around it to keep it secure. I added a few drops of super thick glue on the inside of the grommet to keep the cord from turning.




    And here it is all assembled.





    The red housing is pretty, but I only have two of those. and so I kept them for me. I have 100's of black and silver housings.

    Here's video of the reflector being machined on my CNC machine
    Machining a XML Reflector - YouTube

  2. #2
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    a very tidy job El34. I'm sure a lot of riders with those style Marwi bodies will be happy bunnies now

    How does it do for cooling at mtb speeds?

  3. #3
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    Have not taken it out on MTB yet
    Did a road ride last night (last wednesday night road ride of this season)

    Will be taking it off road soon

    I don't see any problems, it's cold out and the light shell stays just under 99 F on the bench with a small fan cooling it.

    It's really easy to tap the switch and change light modes

    Hope to get some beam shots with my Bell shaped P7's as a comparison tonight

  4. #4
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    Ah..........carp, it's raining and cold here
    No beam shots tonight, but there is always beer.

    BTW, I am thinking I could have the heat sinks made at a machine shop, but the center milled out area makes it hard to do on anything but a CNC machine.

    If I reduce the thickness to .062" and simplify the shape to a flat disc, I could have these things done on a Flojet for cheap. A Flojet can cut a big sheet of these out in no time with no holding tabs and the edges would be very clean. (I am hoping it can anyway)

    The back wall is .062" as it is right now. (The bottom of the bowl part that the XML is sitting on)

  5. #5
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    Ok, put your beer down and get out the camera

    You don't have a pic showing how deep the insert is seated inside the housing. A pick with the rear switch cap removed where the notch in the housing in would be nice to see. We might be able to give you some ideas if we could see that

  6. #6
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    I knew you'd come up with a slick design.

    So if you beveled the back edge to go the same depth into the tail as the depth of the milled out center would that do it? Can a flow jet bevel? I suspect not, but an idea.

    BrianMc

  7. #7
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    Im building a light similar to this , XML t6 with the same driver with star #3 grounded, but im using your remote mount Judco SPST Off-On switch and i cant seem to get the driver to change modes correctly. I switch it on, flutter the switch to change modes and the emitter flickers really dim for a half a second and goes out. flutter again and it repeats this several times until finally goes back to original mode(high?) as when it was initially turned on.

    any help would be appreciated! thanks!


    (first post btw)

  8. #8
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    You don't have a pic showing how deep the insert is seated inside the housing
    It's the same as yours. The slug goes as far back as it can go until it reaches the transition. I'll pop the housing apart and take a pic when I get to the shop.

    So if you beveled the back edge
    I already did that and it makes the slugs way more complicated and very slow to machine on the CNC. A straight sided slug can also be press fitted if you get the diameter just right. The straight sided slug gived you more room out back for the driver.

    I switch it on, flutter the switch to change modes and the emitter flickers really dim for a half a second and goes out
    Hmmm, hard for me to say without seeing your wiring job up close. 3 of the wire leads are easy to solder but the LED- is a *****.
    They need to come up with a larger solder pad for LED-.
    I am using the spring pad for Battery + and LED+.
    I am using Star#1 for the Battery - coming from the switch.
    Are you interupting Battery- to do the switching?

  9. #9
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    I did not take apart the pretty red one, but here's the first housing that I tried a straight sided slug on.

    This slug had wires holes through the firewall. The new slugs have the small half moon wire hole.

    You can just see the back edge of the slug.
    This is where the straight sided walls of the housing ends and the cone shape begins.

    The driver board is sitting on a 1/32" piece of garolite. I thought I would try that as an insulator to keep the heat of the slug from toasting the chips on the driver board.

    I am going to be cutting a thinner slug today so that I do not have to make that recessed area for the XML. I'll take pics of that slug.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Marwi Bullet - XML - 2800ma Multi Mode driver-img_6621.jpg  


  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by El34 View Post
    I am going to be cutting a thinner slug today so that I do not have to make that recessed area for the XML. I'll take pics of that slug.
    Won't a thinner slug give you issues with absorbing and/or dispersing the heat to the light housing?

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by El34 View Post
    I already did that and it makes the slugs way more complicated and very slow to machine on the CNC. A straight sided slug can also be press fitted if you get the diameter just right. The straight sided slug gived you more room out back for the driver.
    Sorry, I should have said chamfer. Just enough to move the disk back the same amount as the depth of the center milled area. However, thinking about it more, if the thinner slug moves enough heat well enough into the body, then simpler is better.

    BrianMc

  12. #12
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    Won't a thinner slug give you issues with absorbing and/or dispersing the heat to the light housing?
    .062 inches is actually thicker than it sounds.
    The Old Marwi heat sink was thinner than that and it worked just fine.

    If the .062 slug is too thin then I could always go back to plan A and have them cut on a CNC machine. Or have a second slug made that has a hole in the center and then just sandwich the two slugs together to get a thicker slug surface at the out walls.

    Not sure I can find a shop with a Flojet anywho.
    The problem with using a CNC machine is that each slug has to have holding tabs. You then have to cut the slugs from the sheet and remove the holding tabs.<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by El34 View Post
    If I reduce the thickness to .062" and simplify the shape to a flat disc, I could have these things done on a Flojet for cheap. A Flojet can cut a big sheet of these out in no time with no holding tabs and the edges would be very clean. (I am hoping it can anyway)
    A Flojet is waterjet cutting and it is not as precise as a cnc mill. I would not bank on a Flojet accurately cutting your discs close enough in tolerance to press fit them in the housings. They may nail the size 1 time, but the next time they may not. I would check with a shop that has a cnc lathe. If you did not care about the finish on the driver side, a cnc lathe could chuck up a long length of 1.375" diameter aluminum and turn the outside diameter, face the end, and then use a cutoff tool to take the slug off. The back side would have a little knob left on it that you might have to touch to a belt sander? I have a local cnc shop that can make my double cupped inserts for pretty cheap and that includes the wire holes, the tapped holes for the star, and the side mounting hole (I have to manually tap that hole since this shop does not have 2 live heads to do this).

  14. #14
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    I always forget about using a lathe.
    A lathe could cut the recess in the front no problem.
    The lathe could not do my half moon wire hole, but I can just drill one hole for both wires.

    The shop that made the Bell housing heat sinks used a CNC lathe to make those

    I'll have to call and see how much they would charge.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by El34 View Post
    I always forget about using a lathe.
    A lathe could cut the recess in the front no problem.
    The lathe could not do my half moon wire hole, but I can just drill one hole for both wires.

    The shop that made the Bell housing heat sinks used a CNC lathe to make those

    I'll have to call and see how much they would charge.
    E-mail me when you find out if you would. We can compare/share notes on costs for our inserts. I'm simply curious what the cost of a simple insert like yours would be compared to a bit more complicated insert like mine. I could/would never make mine manually for what they would charge me, regardless.

  16. #16
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    I have a call into the shop, got voicemail
    Waiting for a call back

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    I'm using the LED + and - leads that came on the board and I'm conneting battery + to the spring and battery - through the switch to the outer - ring on the board. Yes I'm dissrupting the ground to the board. Do I need to change the battery - to star 1?

  18. #18
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    Do I need to change the battery - to star 1?
    No, star one is just a nice big fat pad compared to the outer ring
    Star 1 is the same as the outer ring

    Sounds like you have it wired correctly
    I would use a magnifying glass and see if there are any solder or wire shorts
    Is this a Kaidoman board or is it different in any way?<!-- / message -->

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    its the one from shiningbeam

    alright, I'll look everything over.

    do you think it could be a faulty board? Ive got another one I could test

  20. #20
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    do you think it could be a faulty board
    The SB one comes with a jumper on it already right?

    Does it do that when you first turn it on?
    It should cause it's the same thing as tapping the switch.

    It may be faulty if you are sure everything is wired correctly and there are no solder blob, wire hairs shorts.

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    no it did not come with a jumper installed. First I tried it as it came with no jumper with the trace conneting star 1 to the outer ring and it performed like this. then I cut the trace to star 1 and used a tiny solder blob to connect star 3 to the outer ground ring and nothing changed.

    yes it does this when first initially turned on sometimes

  22. #22
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    Star 1 on the KM boards does not do anything.

    It's just another spot you can use to solder a Battery - wire.
    Sounds like there is something wrong with the board to me.

    Same TINY13A chip as KM boards?

  23. #23
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    yes same TINY13A chip

  24. #24
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    I machined a few reflectors today to dial in the sloped top piece that sits on the XML

    I had to slope the XML end because it was real close to the 6-XML solder contacts.
    The other end had to be wider or else I would be cutting through the inner wall of the reflector.

    Here's a video of my CNC machine cutting down a reflector
    I speeded it up double time so the video was not so long
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuDW4LDTb8A

    I cut the slope sort of course, in four passes and then quickly clean it up on my lathe.
    I also Chamfer the rim on the lathe
    I do the lathe clean up stuff while a reflector is being machined in the CNC.

    Here's what the slope looks like

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    ^ looks impressive!

    its a faulty board, replaced with other board and works flawless

    thanks for your help!

  26. #26
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    Coool, glad you figured out the problem.

  27. #27
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    Was able to shoot a couple beam shots this evening

    Marwi P7 at 2.8 amps in older Bell shaped housing
    Marwi XML at 2.8 amps in newer bullet shaped housing

    Both lights use the same reflector
    Both lights used the same battery pack when shooting the pictures.

    The XML is brighter/ reaches out a bit further
    Me likey the XML rig so far.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Marwi Bullet - XML - 2800ma Multi Mode driver-img_6638_small.jpg  

    Marwi Bullet - XML - 2800ma Multi Mode driver-img_6641_small.jpg  

    Marwi Bullet - XML - 2800ma Multi Mode driver-img_6655.jpg  


  28. #28
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    Funny...with the P7 beamshot image...I didn't even notice the trees in the background.
    I get my boards at Lux-RC.com

  29. #29
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    yeah, the XML reaches out farther, but has a darker area close to the camera

    It's got to do with how far each LED dome sits into the reflector
    I don't care that the XML is a bit darker right in front, the reach is a bit more usefull to me.

    The animation here shows it even better

  30. #30
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    What kind/size of battery are using to get the full 2.8A?

  31. #31
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    Most of the packs I make are 4 x 18650's (2400mah each) in parallel
    So 3.6 volt 9600 mah packs good for 3+ hours on high

  32. #32
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    That's what I'm using as well, but its only seeing about 2.5A if the pack is warm. I don't have a good way to measure current though. I'm using the charger to tell me how many mah it puts back into the pack after a timed burn test. I'm using Tenergy 2600 cells, which may not hold voltage as well as what you are using.

  33. #33
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    Well the 2.8 amps is only possible for a little while until the voltage in the pack starts falling.

    A P7 is rated 3.7 volts and a XML is lower, 3.3 volts (trying to remember)

    So the XML may run at a higher amperage longer then the P7 for a given battery pack voltage
    I have not tested this, just thought about it over a beer
    Should do some test comparisons

    Which LED are you using?

    Honestly,
    I don't see much difference in the xml at 2.5 amps or 2.8amps
    It's only 300ma more

  34. #34
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    XML T6. I agree, its not a big deal. It's more than enough light, less heat, and longer battery life. Just curious what you were seeing.

  35. #35
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    Don't know exactly when I am on the trail riding

    The packs start at 4.2 volts when fresh off the charger and I do get full 2.8 amps with XML and the 105C multi mode driver board.

    Any sort of tiny resistance in the wires, solder joints, is enough to create a voltage drop at that sort of current

    As the voltage in the packs fall the current drops slowly, but it's still a ton of light after 1.5 hours of riding. I don't ever notice the light getting dimmer during any of my rides.

  36. #36
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    Did another 15min burn test last with my dual XML 105C driven bar light. It averaged 2.8A with a 4p 18650 Tenergy 2600 cell pack.

    I couldn't find my notes from the initial burn tests I performed, so I my memory may have failed me. I've got an 2p A123 LiFe pack I use also, so it might have been used for those initial tests by accident. With the lower voltage of the LiFe, I ony get about 2.4A max.

  37. #37
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    Cool
    The XML and 105C board seem to be a good combo, IMO

  38. #38
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    Forgot to mention, but that was with two XML with two 105C's, so the pack was putting out 5.6A total.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ktm520 View Post
    I've got an 2p A123 LiFe pack I use also, so it might have been used for those initial tests by accident. With the lower voltage of the LiFe, I ony get about 2.4A max.
    Did you ever try direct drive the XM-L with the LiFePO4 pack? How do you charge the A123?

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by El34 View Post
    yeah, the XML reaches out farther, but has a darker area close to the camera

    It's got to do with how far each LED dome sits into the reflector
    I don't care that the XML is a bit darker right in front, the reach is a bit more usefull to me.
    I like the XML over the P7 as well. I find too much light close in, creates distracting shadows that draw my attention away from down the trail.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrradlos View Post
    Did you ever try direct drive the XM-L with the LiFePO4 pack? How do you charge the A123?
    I haven't tried direct drive on an XML but I did dd a P7. It should be safe as the A123 is going to be between 3.2-3.3V under a 3A load. I don't have a spare led to sacrifice, otherwise I would try it. I have an iCharger 1010B and 208B that I use to charge my packs.

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    Thank you for your answer ktm520. Time to get a hobby charger ...

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    Hi. New on here (and to the inner workings of these bike lights) and hope you guys can help. I'm looking at the Marwi housings with a view to rigging up 3 separate XML lights to mount on the front of an MTB I'm converting to an off-road eBike.

    The idea is for the lights to be fed from my 36V bike battery via a DC-DC converter which will take the voltage down and feed the lights, arranged in parallel, to come on progressively at different settings. So There would be a 3-setting switch on the handlebars which would give

    0 : OFF
    1: LIGHT 1 (1st T6 & tail light in series)
    2: LIGHTS 1&2 (1st T6 & tail light in series, plus 2nd T6)
    3: LIGHTS 1, 2 & 3 (1st T6 & tail light in series, plus 2nd and 3rd T6s)

    If I can't get the 4 settings including 'OFF', I can isolate the supply to the lights separately.

    The main aim is to by-pass the driver switch on the back of the lights so they are not multi-mode but rather a single constant brightness mode that is controlled remotely from the multiple setting switch mounted on the handlebars. The bike battery capacity is 20Ah and provided the lights are not run at too high a current they will draw very little power from the bike battery. So the outcome would in effect be a multi-beam switch operating the 3 lights mounted on a bracket.

    so ..... the problem I keep coming up against is how to get round the driver board trying to allow control of the light brightness settings individually. I only want each light to have a single mode (on or off) so I can wire it in to a circuit. Can anyone help me with this and how to achieve it with the marwi build lights so I can get them ordered if it's going to be possible ?

    Thanks !

  44. #44
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    You have to use a driver to get different light levels or a simple resistor which is way less efficient than a driver because the ressitor will just drop the excess voltage as heat

    A driver like the multi mode boards I sell use PWM (pulse width modulation) to get different light levels. The PWM drives 8 current limiting chips.

    You need to bring the voltage down to 3.6 volts to run those boards and a XML

    With no driver you can run 3 in series at 10.8 volts but they would all run wide open and may blow up and they would draw a huge amount of current from your electrical system

    The only way to change modes of brightness on each light is by having a switch that can interupt the power briefly. If you have several lights that means several switches or a rotary (or other type) selector switch and a Momentary switch in series

    Why don't you want to use a simple driver like the 2.8 amp multi mode board?
    They are very tiny and easy to hook up

    Marwi Bullet - XML - 2800ma Multi Mode driver-img_6672.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by El34 View Post
    You have to use a driver to get different light levels or a simple resistor which is way less efficient than a driver because the ressitor will just drop the excess voltage as heat

    A driver like the multi mode boards I sell use PWM (pulse width modulation) to get different light levels. The PWM drives 8 current limiting chips.

    You need to bring the voltage down to 3.6 volts to run those boards and a XML

    With no driver you can run 3 in series at 10.8 volts but they would all run wide open and may blow up and they would draw a huge amount of current from your electrical system

    The only way to change modes of brightness on each light is by having a switch that can interupt the power briefly. If you have several lights that means several switches or a rotary (or other type) selector switch and a Momentary switch in series

    Why don't you want to use a simple driver like the 2.8 amp multi mode board?
    They are very tiny and easy to hook up

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Thanks. To answer your question, quite simply because I want to mount the lights out of hand-reach on the forks, pre-set the brightness on each light and have them come on when current is opened to them (via a motorcycle-style 3-position handlebar switch).

    In this way I can use the system on and off-road and can vary the total brightness by switching on 1, 2 or 3 lights at a time (and off again at will during the ride). Set up like this, they can act like a vehicle flash beam and one or two turned off so as not to dazzle also. You can't easily flash a car which doesn't dip its headlights by taking one hand off your handlebars to find the button on a lamp for scrolling to the next brightness mode. Far easier to flick a switch right beside your grips to setting 3 and off again, upon which car will undoubtedly dip said headlights .

    I can limit the battery power supply voltage at source using something like this :

    [forum won't let me post links yet - but it's e-bay.co.uk item number 300819309481] ..

    to bring it down to say 9V and run up to 3A. So if each light were somehow set to run on 0.88A (for example) then even running 3 at once would not draw more than 2.5A. Voltage can be stepped-down further at source but it gets more complicated to find reliable converters with adequate capacitors and acceptable efficiency losses with a huge variance of input voltage versus output voltage in that range.

    My bike battery supply is 36V and 20Ah so I have masses of spare power for running the lights and can get away from portable battery packs and short running time limits if I rig up in this way. I don't need any multi-mode functionality on a single light - just for it to be pre-set to draw a predictable current and to come on when the remote setting switch opens the supply to the light . Open supply to sequentially more units = sequentially more light, all controlled via handlebar switch during your ride .
    Last edited by 103Alex1; 02-18-2013 at 06:24 AM.

  46. #46
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    You need a current limiter to alter the brightness of LED's
    Either a driver board or a simple resistor

    The current limiter does not have to be in the light itself

    You could have them in a box on the bike somewhere

    Just use one of the simple AM7135 boards and set the current level to what ever you want for each light
    Each chip on these boards limits 350ma, so 4 x 350 = 1400ma per board.
    or remove one chip and have 350ma x 3 = 1050
    Or put two in parallel and have 5, 6, 7 or 8 chips

    I stock these boards. they are a cheap and easy way to control LED brightness. They do not have multi modes like the other board pictured in my post above
    These boards are just current limiters

    Marwi Bullet - XML - 2800ma Multi Mode driver-img_2347.jpg

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by El34 View Post
    You need a current limiter to alter the brightness of LED's
    Either a driver board or a simple resistor

    The current limiter does not have to be in the light itself

    You could have them in a box on the bike somewhere

    Just use one of the simple AM7135 boards and set the current level to what ever you want for each light
    Each chip on these boards limits 350ma, so 4 x 350 = 1400ma per board.
    or remove one chip and have 350ma x 3 = 1050
    Or put two in parallel and have 5, 6, 7 or 8 chips

    I stock these boards. they are a cheap and easy way to control LED brightness. They do not have multi modes like the other board pictured in my post above
    These boards are just current limiters

    Click image for larger version. 

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    OK thanks a bunch, really. It sounds like this is going to be possible after all. Been trying to sort out how to do this for days and hitting a brick wall !

    Am checking out some voltage converters that will transform the supply down to 9V or less for the lighting array and also allow a cumulative current draw from a total of up to 4 lights (3 front and 1 rear) of ideally up to 3A max (preferably less). Bench-tested DC-DC converters which others have tested and know to be sound will allow a constant supply at a sensible voltage to all the lights.

    I can then work out the best number of lights to put together and available current to each light if they are going to be on together, and also make sure I can get a decent handlebar-mounted multi-setting switch to regulate how many come on at once.

    Have not made / assembled lights before, so getting some where the housings can be pre-inserted to the right depth etc. and are pretty straightforward to solder up if needed will be a help .

  48. #48
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    You need approx 4 volts DC or under for XML LED's unless you are running them in series or your driver board can accept voltages higher than 4 volts

    The simple AMC7135 driver boards need 3.6 to 5 volts.
    They will blow up higher than 6volts

    It's best to sit down and draw out all the possible scenarios of lighting so you can figure out how to switch multi lights on and off and have multi light levels of brightness

    For example
    This image shows four different scenarios'
    2 and 4 are the same because of the way the SPDT switch works.
    Starting at the top
    1 - Off
    2 - 1400ma
    3 - 2800 ma
    4 - 1400ma
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Marwi Bullet - XML - 2800ma Multi Mode driver-dualboard2.gif  


  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by El34 View Post
    You need approx 4 volts DC or under for XML LED's unless you are running them in series or your driver board can accept voltages higher than 4 volts

    The simple AMC7135 driver boards need 3.6 to 5 volts.
    They will blow up higher than 6volts

    It's best to sit down and draw out all the possible scenarios of lighting so you can figure out how to switch multi lights on and off and have multi light levels of brightness

    For example
    This image shows four different scenarios'
    2 and 4 are the same because of the way the SPDT switch works.
    Starting at the top
    1 - Off
    2 - 1400ma
    3 - 2800 ma
    4 - 1400ma
    OK - I have found a buck converter which will step down the voltage supply from 36V to a fixed 5V :

    e-bay item no. : 150987911654

    This should provide a fixed supply voltage to the lights that won't exceed 6V so should be compatible with these boards I am guessing ... but it's a new one on all of us so hasn't been tested yet by anyone I know of.

    Am I right in thinking the current limiter boards can simply be put in the light housings (one in each) and the relevant number of chips removed to limit current down from 1.4A per light accordingly depending on what brightness I want each of them individually to run at in 350mA steps ?

    The plan isn't to drive the LEDs hard (draws too much current) rather take less current to each and have more lights. None of them is likely going to be run at more than 1.4A on its own I wouldn't have thought ... 3 of them taking 1.4A each would exceed the 3A max current draw from the buck converter (assuming you aggregate the current drawn by each light to determine the maximum current which can be taken off the buck converter).

    I guess there are no similar boards without multimodes which allow you to feed more than 5-6V supply ? Was getting confused because the 1200lm Magicshine-clone T6 lights we get over here (or sent from China) typically run off 8.4V packs with 4 x 18650 batteries in them.

  50. #50
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    1400ma on and XML is still really bright
    you may find that 700ma or just two AMC7135 chips is all you need on some lights like a turn signal
    You could remove two chips
    You can also just cut traces to two of the chips and leave them on the board.

    You can have the board in the light or at the other end of the wire, it does not matter. Or in a box under a seat

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