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  1. #1
    Drinkin' the 29er KoolAid
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    Looking for a 35mm housing

    OK, so I'm itching to build up a new light. Just recently received my order of neutral tint 3up XML 34mm boards and Cute-3-SS XML optics from Cutter. Driver would be H6flex and batteries will likely be 14.8v lipo. Only one small problem... I have no idea what to do for a suitable housing and I have zero access to milling equipment so I can only drool over the some of the jewel like creations I've seen here.

    Anyone know of a DIY 35mm (MR11) housing I could buy or perhaps commission someone to build?

  2. #2
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    Depends on what sort of a rush you are in .
    I have just ordered some ali bar to do some prototyping a bit like this one



    but with easter it wont get here till thursday / friday
    I am happy to do you one if you can wait a couple of weeks ish .

  3. #3
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    When my 3up xm-l Cutter board comes in I will be using this as my housing, http://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant...270&top_cat=60

    I will cut the AL tube to form a u-shaped piece to mount the led board to. (Will be about 1.375" tall or about 32mm) This piece will be mounted to the bottom inside of the light using Arctic Silver epoxy. The H6cc driver is be mounted near the back of the light & not on the u-shaped piece.

    The light will be about 4" long. The lexan lens cover will siliconed to front end & a thin piece of aluimnum or plastic will be epoxied to the rear where the cable gland & power cord will exit the light.


    Anyway thats the plan as of now.

  4. #4
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    How bout one of these at Cutter, from Niteliting NZ

    Think they run at $100, not sure on the dissapating the heat of 3 xmls tho?





    http://www.cutter.com.au/proddetail.php?prod=cut779

    Anyone used one??

  5. #5
    Drinkin' the 29er KoolAid
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    Quote Originally Posted by troutie-mtb
    Depends on what sort of a rush you are in .
    I have just ordered some ali bar to do some prototyping a bit like this one



    but with easter it wont get here till thursday / friday
    I am happy to do you one if you can wait a couple of weeks ish .
    Troutie, thank you very much for your kind offer! No real big rush really, just that I have the parts and they are bugging me not being put to good use. Let me know how you'd prefer to be contacted (PM, email) and we can work out the details.

    Karl

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by stu44
    How bout one of these at Cutter, from Niteliting NZ

    Think they run at $100, not sure on the dissapating the heat of 3 xmls tho?





    http://www.cutter.com.au/proddetail.php?prod=cut779

    Anyone used one??
    Yeah, I did look at those housings and had the same concern about being able to handle the heat of 3xXMLs considering that they were designed back in the day of XRE LEDs. I'd love to hear from anyone who has used this housing with a 2000-3000 lumen LED array.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by stu44
    How bout one of these at Cutter, from Niteliting NZ

    Think they run at $100, not sure on the dissapating the heat of 3 xmls tho?

    Anyone used one??
    I have one with a quad XRE which is about to get a triple XML fitted. Direct from Nightlightning it was about 80US$.
    Theres lots of cooling there, but I only run it at 500mA (dyno powered).

  8. #8
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    The Nightlighing Housinghas undergone some changes, see photo below, includes screw on front, improved barrel design
    Cheers
    WeLight

    Cutter Electronics Pty Ltd www.cutter.com.au

  9. #9
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    Will the nightlighning housing fit the quad xpg MR-11 board with all optics available from cutter? I have the quad narrow for XRE cutter 4N and the quad XPG GT4 optics and there is a considerable difference in size between the two....

    Also just noticed that there is an updated housing with a screw on front cap....How do you know which version you are getting when you order one?
    Last edited by bncrshr77; 04-28-2011 at 01:40 AM.

  10. #10
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    We recommend you use an alum slug/spacer to raise the height of the PCB if you use the GT4 Optics
    Cheers
    WeLight

    Cutter Electronics Pty Ltd www.cutter.com.au

  11. #11
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    My housing as seen below handles 3 xml's at 3000mA. It does get hot but as long as I am moving is fine. Also since I never run full power when going slow it is not a problem therefore I can't see why the cutter housing will not handle the heat.

    My housing is 40mm diameter and about 80mm long an uses the triple 35mm diameter xre optic, and it pumps out a ridiculous amount of light at 2800ma


  12. #12
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    Brad72....Where did you get the housing?

  13. #13
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    knocked it up on the lathe. You can see the build in this post XML Build

  14. #14
    Carbon8er
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    I have hundreds of 35mm Marwi housings.

    $5 and $6 each all day long.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by El34
    I have hundreds of 35mm Marwi housings.

    $5 and $6 each all day long.
    Can the Marwi housings properly dissipate the heat generated by a 2000-3000 lumen 3up XML light engine?

  16. #16
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    When choosing a housing one of the biggest issues you will find is that if it cannot remove the heat generated from the leds, the driver (if fitted within the housing) will keep tripping on thermal overload and therefore keep dimming you light.

    This might not be an issue if you are riding out in the snow where the housing is freezing cold but over here in Australia it is a real problem, therefore you need to be able to keep the driver cool, or you will get about 5 minutes in high, then the light will dim. One option is to have the driver in it's own heatsinked puck that is separate to the housing.

    As George from Taskled has said the thermal overload is mainly to protect the expensive driver, and not the leds. We Know the leds can handle 100c plus but that temp would fry your driver. In saying that, as your leds get hotter, so does their light output so it is in your best interest to keep them as cool as possible.
    Last edited by brad72; 05-05-2011 at 04:48 PM.

  17. #17
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    You wont get a H6Flex in the Marwi case and from my playing it certainly wont handle the heat from a triple xml at full throttle .


    My metals on order came in yesterday if you want me to hack you something out .

  18. #18
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    For an uber cheap 35 mm housing, try some 1.5 inch aluminum tube with 0.062 inch wall thickness. It comes out at just about 35 mm. I've found 1.375 inch copper washers that you can press fit into the tubing. Slime some artica alumina epoxy (AA) on the tubing wall before pushing in the washer, and you seem to get pretty good thermal conduction between the washer and tubing. Glue your star (or 3 up LED board in your case) to the washer. You can add multiple washers with a bit of AA in between if you feel one washer isn't enuff.

    I pre-drill the washers for LED wires. Depending on how your LED board is laid out you might just be able to run wires thru the central hole of the washer. You can glue the driver to the back of the washer to insure it gets an accurate temperature reading of the LED. I never used a Bflex, since I like torturing myself designing my own drivers



    Above photo is of a single MCE which was quite happy in the simple housing running at up to 10 watts. I used anodized tubing because it looked nicer, but regular tubing works fine, and with a bit of sanding looks pretty nice as well.

    For a mounting hole, I used a rivet nut.

    You can plug the back with a standard tubing cap, or just seal the back with epoxy.

    You might need to add fins if your going to run 3 XMLs at 3 amps each.

    A suitable sized pipe cutter, a hand drill, a rivet nut press and a file or 2 are about the only tools you'll need. You can buy all of them from harbor freight for less than $100 in the US.

    Mark
    Nimium est melior!

  19. #19
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    I'm up for making some housings if people are interested..

  20. #20
    meep meep !!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldigger
    I'm up for making some housings if people are interested..
    That sounds interesting to me.

    Have you got any design drawings of what it might look like yet?

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Road_Runner
    That sounds interesting to me.

    Have you got any design drawings of what it might look like yet?
    I'm open to ideas, so if you want to provide a drawing I can work with that..
    The only drawings I have are for the 4 different housing I've posted on mtbr..
    It doesn't have to be a 35mm housing either, but I would need accurate measurements of components especially the optics..

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Road_Runner
    That sounds interesting to me.

    Have you got any design drawings of what it might look like yet?

    design drawing.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by troutie-mtb



    design drawing.
    I've got a few sketches on envelopes.

  24. #24
    meep meep !!!
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    Golly it looks like the forum has been invaded by the Ribena berries now.

    Ok, how about "graphic images of the proposed product" then?

    And for GD, I'll get back to you about ideas for the housing later in the week, thanks mate.

  25. #25
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    I find drawings help eliminate on the fly machining mistakes. Like when you bore out a hole a bit deeper and then notice swarf coming out the side of your housing, because you've just milled into the channel of a cooling fin..
    No names of course Chris

  26. #26
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    I do drawings for my lights but on good old fashioned paper with a pencil. I just can't draw on a computer however hard I try



    Last edited by yetibetty; 05-08-2011 at 09:24 AM.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Road_Runner
    Golly it looks like the forum has been invaded by the Ribena berries now.

    Ok, how about "graphic images of the proposed product" then?

    And for GD, I'll get back to you about ideas for the housing later in the week, thanks mate.

    Like Yetibetty I cant draw for toffee either on a computer of a piece of paper
    and yes got a bucket full of cockups but with every mistake made its a lesson learnt .


    Here is a triple that has been cooking since christmas which I have had today on trying to fin as much as possible






  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by troutie-mtb
    Like Yetibetty I cant draw for toffee either on a computer of a piece of paper
    and yes got a bucket full of cockups but with every mistake made its a lesson learnt .


    Here is a triple that has been cooking since christmas which I have had today on trying to fin as much as possible






    Thats looking good, nice to see the inclusion of a front cover
    It reminds me of a leather back turtle

  29. #29
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    Chris, great minds think alike . I started on a light very similar to yours last week but a double helmet light using 2 x 25mm square optics. The biggest problem was keeping the physical size down whilst dealing with the 35mm h6flex, ensuring it is heat sinked whilst still being able to wire it in easily. If only all the drivers were the size of a bflex.

    Should say also if anyone wants a drawing done up in 3d cad with 2d machine drawing as well back let me know (confidentiality agreement included of course ). They don't take long to do and as GD says can help avoid those unexpected stuff ups .

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by brad72
    Chris, great minds think alike . I started on a light very similar to yours last week but a double helmet light using 2 x 25mm square optics. The biggest problem was keeping the physical size down whilst dealing with the 35mm h6flex, ensuring it is heat sinked whilst still being able to wire it in easily. If only all the drivers were the size of a bflex.

    Should say also if anyone wants a drawing done up in 3d cad with 2d machine drawing as well back let me know (confidentiality agreement included of course ). They don't take long to do and as GD says can help avoid those unexpected stuff ups .


    it came about when I got the first H6Flex and got to thinking if done in a conventional round style then alot of the inside is hollow so tried to make the driver cavity as small as poss so the metal removal was on the outside which meant more surface to get the heat out .

    Just had a rough work out and have come up with a figure of 27 square inche and with a built up weight of 140 grams now whether that is enough to cope with three XMLS at full tilt remains to be seen .


    Hell I would love drawings but unless you can do the Vulcan mind meld getting the light out of my imagination will be very difficult ..

    Best subjects at school were. Woodwork and metalwork
    worst were. Tech drawing and maths
    My modus operandi is to get the parts on the desk and spend a while just looking at them
    I then visualise the finished light and design it on the fly as I hack bits of metal away
    usualy changing the design as new ideas come in
    and thankfully cockups are now fairly rare. but when theyndo happen it is usualy when the part is 99% finished .

  31. #31
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    Looking at your housing it should have no problem getting the heat away.

    Regarding just getting in and making the light I found in my early engineering days I could get projects out a lot faster with just a basic idea and a build as you go style of fabricating. Now however, although I can see the finished product in my head I make everything in cad first and I reckon project time has doubled, but then again I don't muck up any expensive components if I do get it wrong and like you my fitters can't read my mind, and to honest they would be horrified if they could

    By the way, if I every catch that Murphy bastard, I'll lock him up till we can all get together and take it in turns kicking the sh-t out of him. I reckon he has wrecked at least one of everyones light build at some time.

  32. #32
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    Just an update.
    fired it up this morning. and just sat on the desk it was hot in less than 2 mins
    which is good as it proves it is transfering heat well .

    but it is now sat in the flow from a desk fan on low so a gentle breeze. and despite the huge surface area it is maintaining a temp of around 30 degrees that is in an ambient of around 16 degrees .
    so a word of warning to you lot in warmer climes. these triples need to shed a lot of heat so make sure you design in area and mass seems to be important too. .

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by troutie-mtb
    Just an update.
    fired it up this morning. and just sat on the desk it was hot in less than 2 mins
    which is good as it proves it is transfering heat well .

    but it is now sat in the flow from a desk fan on low so a gentle breeze. and despite the huge surface area it is maintaining a temp of around 30 degrees that is in an ambient of around 16 degrees .
    so a word of warning to you lot in warmer climes. these triples need to shed a lot of heat so make sure you design in area and mass seems to be important too. .
    If you can sort the water proofing out on one of these fans...it will be your next challenge
    I know that you can get IP rated fans, but a quick google didn't produce any results..
    If you ride in the dry and hot then waterproofing probably can be given a miss

    3.3v 15x15x4mm
    http://www.watercoolinguk.co.uk/p/Ti...rpm_19231.html
    12v 20x20x6mm
    http://www.watercoolinguk.co.uk/p/Ti...pm_19234.html]
    5v 20x20x6mm
    http://www.watercoolinguk.co.uk/p/Ti...rpm_19233.html
    5v 30x30x6mm
    http://www.watercoolinguk.co.uk/p/Ti...rpm_19241.html

  34. #34
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    I would love to use a "Peltier cooler" in a light but the current draw would mean having a huge battery to cope with the current draw from the light and the peltier module.

  35. #35
    Drinkin' the 29er KoolAid
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    Quote Originally Posted by brad72
    I would love to use a "Peltier cooler" in a light but the current draw would mean having a huge battery to cope with the current draw from the light and the peltier module.
    I'm not sure a Peltier cooler would help really. My understanding is a Peltier cooler is just a heat pump which effectively makes one side of the device cold and the other side hot... you still have to take the heat away from the hot side otherwise you are no probably no better off.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermoelectric_cooling

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwarwick
    I'm not sure a Peltier cooler would help really. My understanding is a Peltier cooler is just a heat pump which effectively makes one side of the device cold and the other side hot... you still have to take the heat away from the hot side otherwise you are no probably no better off.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermoelectric_cooling
    Good point.

  37. #37
    A waste of time it is is
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    There was a thread recently, or maybe just a post that linked another forum thread, that had some bloke make a massive, in output, bar light. He had fans built into the underside of the light that blew air into the bottom and then directed it out the back, ready made hand warmer.

    From memory the fans weren't water proof but he didn't have an issue with rain because they were mounted inside the housing under the lights. Not sure how that would go on an MTB though.

    Maybe it's time to revist the small rc motor fans like these shown in the similar products on the right of that page

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by emu26
    There was a thread recently, or maybe just a post that linked another forum thread, that had some bloke make a massive, in output, bar light. He had fans built into the underside of the light that blew air into the bottom and then directed it out the back, ready made hand warmer.

    From memory the fans weren't water proof but he didn't have an issue with rain because they were mounted inside the housing under the lights. Not sure how that would go on an MTB though.

    Maybe it's time to revist the small rc motor fans like these shown in the similar products on the right of that page
    Them rc fans look pretty much the same as the pc fans I linked to, but the addition of a heat sink.

  39. #39
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    No eno needs to run them at 3 amps now do they

    Drop them down to two amps and the heat issue goes away

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwarwick
    I'm not sure a Peltier cooler would help really. My understanding is a Peltier cooler is just a heat pump which effectively makes one side of the device cold and the other side hot... you still have to take the heat away from the hot side otherwise you are no probably no better off.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermoelectric_cooling
    I think a Peltier effect heat pump would help quite a bit. The likely outcome is the casing would rise to the steady temperature at which it is dissipating all the heat put into the system (same as without a heat pump), but with the inclusion of a heat pump the LED would remain a fixed temperature beneath this. Alternatively (and rather less likely) the housing would get hotter, in which case it will dissipate more heat as the amount of heat lost is (roughly) proportional to the difference in temperature between the hot item and the air. Hotter housing equals more heat lost.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by troutie-mtb
    No eno needs to run them at 3 amps now do they

    Drop them down to two amps and the heat issue goes away
    Yes they do... thats like buying a gsxr 1000 and saying it will do 180mph but you can only do 120mph or you risk breaking it

    My triple seems to do ok..so I'm not worried about running it at 3 amps.

    Seems a waste to buy leds and drivers that are capable of being run at 3 amps, when the housing isn't up to it

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldigger
    Yes they do... thats like buying a gsxr 1000 and saying it will do 180mph but you can only do 120mph or you risk breaking it

    My triple seems to do ok..so I'm not worried about running it at 3 amps.

    Seems a waste to buy leds and drivers that are capable of being run at 3 amps, when the housing isn't up to it


    Ha ha Gotcha. Jay

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by troutie-mtb
    Ha ha Gotcha. Jay
    That'll be the lumen king in me..its always been there from diving..
    Diving has this who has the best torch, brightest and best beam war..hence why i blew 800 on my dive light..

    But then mtb lights are no different, anyone that has a light always asks how many lumens is yours

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