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  1. #1
    fc
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    Lights shootout comments

    Please check it for accuracy and typos. I'd like to announce the shootout today. I'm planning to publish a couple light articles a day starting tomorrow as the page formatting progresses.

    http://reviews.mtbr.com/blog/lights-...-introduction/

    fc
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  2. #2
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    Great start, francois. However, you are such a tease..

  3. #3
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    Suggested changes to one paragraph of the article:

    "With the combination of LEDs, lithium batteries, better electronics and chargers, this new crop of lights promises to deliver a much better and safer night riding experience."

  4. #4
    fc
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flyer
    Great start, francois. However, you are such a tease..
    Yeah... I have dual, side by side beam pattern rollovers even. Super geeky!

    I'll send you a secret link to the beam pattern shots since you are one of the premier contributors here and I could use the feedback.

    fc
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  5. #5
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    It would be a pleasure to help, francois. You have transcended basic beamshots- that's very impressive.

  6. #6
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    Looks really interesting - I am clicking on everything in there to find comparisons on a Jet 20W VS Niterider HID VS Lupine Betty........

    Quote Originally Posted by francois
    Please check it for accuracy and typos. I'd like to announce the shootout today. I'm planning to publish a couple light articles a day starting tomorrow as the page formatting progresses.

    http://reviews.mtbr.com/blog/lights-...-introduction/

    fc

  7. #7
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    Looking good. I won't check for typos, because that would be asking a fish to walk on land. But the info is good - I don't necessarily agree with everything, but there's nothing I would object to (and if we all thought the same, then we should have had world peace by now). Great work!

    Cheers,

    Tom

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flyer
    Great start, francois. However, you are such a tease..
    Hi Flyer,

    I agree about the tease part! That said, it's all great information and I'm anxious to see more of it.

    Thanks,

    Michael
    If you can't keep the rubber side down......at least smile for the camera!

  9. #9
    dweeby
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    Love it, Very interesting reading and I'm glad DIY lights will be encluded.
    One small thing though, leds are chips and not bulbs.

  10. #10
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    we're very, very excited about this test. Thanks a ton!

  11. #11
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    It's looking really good with clean page-layout and very effective writing. I'll check back each day for new reviews.

    By the way, a LED used in bike lights is contained within a bulb. There is a chip (Light Emitting Diode) contained within the bulb. So the use of the word "lamp" or "bulb" is still accurate though the LED itself is not a bulb. It is a diode that emits light when "powered up" in a circuit.

  12. #12
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    I'm eager to read more reviews. Can you please put the "Light Price Claimed Lumens" data in a table so it is more readable?

  13. #13
    fc
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    Knog is up. Flyer... proofread pls.

    fc
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  14. #14
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    No Princeton Tech Lights to be compared?
    Get 15% off your first Hammer Nutrition order by clicking here.
    Check out my blog at SquidBuzz's Garage

  15. #15
    fc
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    Quote Originally Posted by SquidBuzz
    No Princeton Tech Lights to be compared?
    These are coming. 2 models arriving today...

    fc
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  16. #16
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    Suggestions:

    In the first paragraph, instead of simply saying, "a nice lighthead.", I think you should be more specific, saying something like "It features a nicely styled, single lighthead with three LEDs."

    Second paragraph -- instead of, "Each of the three LEDs come with their own switch that operates independently.", it should read, "Each of the three LEDs comes with its own switch that operates independently."

    Maybe you could be more descriptive of the materials too. Is that an anodized aluminum front bezel? Is the back molded of solid plastic with a rubbery feel? That integrated rubbery band can be a plus and a minus.

    In the Bottom Line section -- instead of, "Thereís a lot of light levels and the flash mode works well for commuters. But on the trail, itís not quite bright enough and some usability issues hold it back. The amount of light the rider gets for the money is not very high. Also, some of the design issues like the switch hold back its trail usability.", try the following, "There are lots of light levels and the flash mode works well for commuters. But on the trail, itís not quite bright enough and some usability issues hold it back. The amount of light the rider gets for the money is not very high. Also some of the design issues, like the switches, limit its trail usability."

  17. #17
    fc
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    Quote Originally Posted by striegel
    Suggestions:

    In the first paragraph, instead of simply saying, "a nice lighthead.", I think you should be more specific, saying something like "It features a nicely styled, single lighthead with three LEDs."

    Second paragraph -- instead of, "Each of the three LEDs come with their own switch that operates independently.", it should read, "Each of the three LEDs comes with its own switch that operates independently."

    Maybe you could be more descriptive of the materials too. Is that an anodized aluminum front bezel? Is the back molded of solid plastic with a rubbery feel? That integrated rubbery band can be a plus and a minus.

    In the Bottom Line section -- instead of, "Thereís a lot of light levels and the flash mode works well for commuters. But on the trail, itís not quite bright enough and some usability issues hold it back. The amount of light the rider gets for the money is not very high. Also, some of the design issues like the switch hold back its trail usability.", try the following, "There are lots of light levels and the flash mode works well for commuters. But on the trail, itís not quite bright enough and some usability issues hold it back. The amount of light the rider gets for the money is not very high. Also some of the design issues, like the switches, limit its trail usability."
    Beauty. I will incorporate these changes.

    I'll also add in my light meter readings. At first, I thought they're not relevant until the full set is presented but I can sa it was nth out 25. And state what was right in front of it and behind it in terms of brightness.

    fc
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  18. #18
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    Prefer responses via PM, email, or this thread? I emailed you already.

  19. #19
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    All I can say is ....hurry! I'm waiting to see the results before pulling the trigger on new lights!

    The bike light manufacturing industry had better take notice of this shootout and use it as a way to improve their products. If they don't, they my be left in the dark!
    The standing eight count & three knockdown rules are in effect on this trail.

    http://compvelo.com/content/

  20. #20
    fc
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flyer
    Prefer responses via PM, email, or this thread? I emailed you already.
    Please PM it to me or post it here. My email is broke! Big norcal storm.

    fc
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  21. #21
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    Correction to latest edit:

    "...into the light headThe first two LEDs..." needs a period and space after head.

  22. #22
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    You should put them each on their own page, or you should at least provide links with anchors in the page. Otherwise it will take a lot of scrolling to get where you want to be.

  23. #23
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    Also, I'm not sure I undestand this part in the Ayup review:

    "Light Output Measurements:

    The narrow helmet mount measured a 16 and the wider bar light measured a 17. The closest competitors are the Knog 605 at 16 and the Exposure Race Maxx at 24."

  24. #24
    fc
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wish I Were Riding
    You should put them each on their own page, or you should at least provide links with anchors in the page. Otherwise it will take a lot of scrolling to get where you want to be.
    done! good suggestion.

    fc
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  25. #25
    fc
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wish I Were Riding
    Also, I'm not sure I undestand this part in the Ayup review:

    "Light Output Measurements:

    The narrow helmet mount measured a 16 and the wider bar light measured a 17. The closest competitors are the Knog 605 at 16 and the Exposure Race Maxx at 24."
    That's 16 Lux. I have a page dedicated just for the light meter test but it's not ready yet. Here's a sneak peak.

    The light is pointed at the ceiling and the meter is beside it, pointed up as well.

    <img src="http://reviews.mtbr.com/files/2008/01/img_2724.jpg">

    Here's the preliminary results. The Jet Halogen is a huge surprise.

    <table x:str="" style="border-collapse: collapse; width: 329pt;" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="438"><col style="width: 144pt;" width="192"> <col style="width: 48pt;" width="64"> <col style="width: 60pt;" width="80"> <col style="width: 77pt;" width="102"> <tbody><tr style="height: 72pt;" height="96"> <td class="xl26" style="height: 72pt; width: 144pt;" height="96" width="192">Light</td> <td class="xl26" style="width: 48pt;" width="64">Price</td> <td class="xl26" style="width: 60pt;" width="80">Claimed Lumens</td> <td class="xl26" style="width: 77pt;" width="102">Ambient Lux</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">Light and Motion Vega</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="175" align="right">$175</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">75</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">5</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">Cateye Tripleshot</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="330" align="right">$330</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">130</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">11</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">Light and Motion Stella 180L</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="300" align="right">$300</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">180</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">12</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">Niterider Minewt.X2</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="190" align="right">$190</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">150</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">12</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">Exposure Joystick Maxx</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="250" align="right">$250</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">240</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">14</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">Levin Brightstar</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="270" align="right">$270</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">500</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">15</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">Ayup helmet</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="190" align="right">$190</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">280</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">16</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" x:str="Dinotte 200L " height="19">Dinotte 200L </td> <td class="xl27" x:num="249" align="right">$249</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">200</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">16</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">Knog 605</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="399" align="right">$399</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">300</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">16</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">Ayup bar (regular kit)</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="190" align="right">$190</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">280</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">17</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">Exposure Race Maxx</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="350" align="right">$350</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">480</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">24</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">BR Lights C2.1H</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="330" align="right">$330</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">410</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">28</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">BR Lights Jeni H</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="299" align="right">$299</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">410</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">28</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">Exposure Enduro Maxx</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="450" align="right">$450</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">720</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">30</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">Jet Lites Shadow 2600 HID</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="500" align="right">$500</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">675</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">30</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">Dinotte 200L Dual</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="349" align="right">$349</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">400</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">32</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">Dinotte 600-LI-4C</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="399" align="right">$399</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">600</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">33</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">Light On Expedition 1000</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="800" align="right">$800</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">500</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">33</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">Niterider Trinewt</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="500" align="right">$500</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">500</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">33</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">Jet Lites Phantom Halogen</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="295" align="right">$295</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">675</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">44</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">Lupine Betty 12</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="1185" align="right">$1,185</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">1400</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">65</td> </tr> </tbody></table>
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  26. #26
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    I wonder what effect, if any, the color temperature has on the meter.

    That Jet is intriguing.

    Quote Originally Posted by francois
    That's 16 Lux. I have a page dedicated just for the light meter test but it's not ready yet. Here's a sneak peak.

    The light is pointed at the ceiling and the meter is beside it, pointed up as well.



    Here's the preliminary results. The Jet Halogen is a huge surprise.

    <table x:str="" style="border-collapse: collapse; width: 329pt;" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="438"><col style="width: 144pt;" width="192"> <col style="width: 48pt;" width="64"> <col style="width: 60pt;" width="80"> <col style="width: 77pt;" width="102"> <tbody><tr style="height: 72pt;" height="96"> <td class="xl26" style="height: 72pt; width: 144pt;" height="96" width="192">Light</td> <td class="xl26" style="width: 48pt;" width="64">Price</td> <td class="xl26" style="width: 60pt;" width="80">Claimed Lumens</td> <td class="xl26" style="width: 77pt;" width="102">Ambient Lux</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">Light and Motion Vega</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="175" align="right">$175</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">75</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">5</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">Cateye Tripleshot</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="330" align="right">$330</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">130</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">11</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">Light and Motion Stella 180L</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="300" align="right">$300</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">180</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">12</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">Niterider Minewt.X2</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="190" align="right">$190</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">150</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">12</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">Exposure Joystick Maxx</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="250" align="right">$250</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">240</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">14</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">Levin Brightstar</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="270" align="right">$270</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">500</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">15</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">Ayup helmet</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="190" align="right">$190</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">280</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">16</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" x:str="Dinotte 200L " height="19">Dinotte 200L </td> <td class="xl27" x:num="249" align="right">$249</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">200</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">16</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">Knog 605</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="399" align="right">$399</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">300</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">16</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">Ayup bar (regular kit)</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="190" align="right">$190</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">280</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">17</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">Exposure Race Maxx</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="350" align="right">$350</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">480</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">24</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">BR Lights C2.1H</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="330" align="right">$330</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">410</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">28</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">BR Lights Jeni H</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="299" align="right">$299</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">410</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">28</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">Exposure Enduro Maxx</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="450" align="right">$450</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">720</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">30</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">Jet Lites Shadow 2600 HID</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="500" align="right">$500</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">675</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">30</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">Dinotte 200L Dual</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="349" align="right">$349</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">400</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">32</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">Dinotte 600-LI-4C</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="399" align="right">$399</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">600</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">33</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">Light On Expedition 1000</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="800" align="right">$800</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">500</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">33</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">Niterider Trinewt</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="500" align="right">$500</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">500</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">33</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">Jet Lites Phantom Halogen</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="295" align="right">$295</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">675</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">44</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">Lupine Betty 12</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="1185" align="right">$1,185</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">1400</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">65</td> </tr> </tbody></table>

  27. #27
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    rearding meter mesurements,

    hello,

    igot the genaral idea, i understand that obveiously 30 is more lux light than 5,

    but this still does not tell me, what i think would be more useful or helpful info,

    is you aim a light on the wall about five feet from the wall and mesure the bright

    hotspot, how many lumens bright, the brightest part of the beam is, and also

    mesure if possible exactly how many lumens of light is actully really comeing out

    of a light,


    i bet 200L is,nt coming out of the 200L minus optic loss, i reackon problebly more

    like 180 - 185 lumens,

    can you clear this up francois,


    great stuff well done, keep up the good work,


    thanks,

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by david 290
    hello,

    igot the genaral idea, i understand that obveiously 30 is more lux light than 5,

    but this still does not tell me, what i think would be more useful or helpful info,

    is you aim a light on the wall about five feet from the wall and mesure the bright

    hotspot, how many lumens bright, the brightest part of the beam is, and also

    mesure if possible exactly how many lumens of light is actully really comeing out

    of a light,


    i bet 200L is,nt coming out of the 200L minus optic loss, i reackon problebly more

    like 180 - 185 lumens,

    can you clear this up francois,


    great stuff well done, keep up the good work,


    thanks,
    forget about lumens for a second, hard to convert lumens to lux. if you can use the lux as a based for all the testing, then lux would be your number. most manufacture lumens are over inflated anyways. lux meter reading against the ceiling doesn't tell you where the bright spot are or how bright is the center. that is what beam shot photo are for, photo tells you where is brightest spot is and beam pattern is. What he measure is the overall light output after the lens against a ceiling in a dark room. A single spot led can be as bright as 12 spot led at the light meter at one inch distance. now the interesting part, if you change the same brand len from spot to flood. the lux reading the about the same against the ceiling. It would be interesting to see the differenet brand's HID into comparsion also. if you would really like to see the beam pattern on a computer graph, then check this betty, wilma, 600L out:
    http://acidinmylegs.blogspot.com/sea...max-results=50

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by francois
    The light is pointed at the ceiling and the meter is beside it, pointed up as well.

    <img src="http://reviews.mtbr.com/files/2008/01/img_2724.jpg">
    Colour issues aside, this is a nice way to compare relative outputs. The light meter has an incident dome, which integrates all the light reaching it from a 180 deg view. Thus as long as the geometry is identical for all lights, you can get an idea of how total light output compares with each unit, regardless of beam pattern and hot spots. It's like using an integrating sphere, only you are using the inside of the garage instead(which isn't perfectly uniform or calibrated, but good to a first approximation).

    The only problem is that it is not repeatable by someone else (or somewhere else). But that shouldn't be big issue.

    Nice work, interesting data!

  30. #30
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    great work francois

    any chance on getting an Adventure Lighting Products "iBlast!" in the shootout ?~?

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by James@GearReview
    I wonder what effect, if any, the color temperature has on the meter.

    That Jet is intriguing.
    Here is another twist to think about, I have a old 6v 15w halogen with 6v NiMH fully charge used 20 times that read 4lux on the light meter. remember that each dark room condition is different, so lux reading is different in their own testing enviroment, but here is a base for your thought. with 7.2li-ion battery, the 6v 15w now reads 18.8 lux. so I'm sure that JET halogen is over volted with shorter bulb life. but by how much is the question. I'm trying to borrow a 600L, so there is a baseline to compare to Francois's test.

    my lux meter test: halogen bulb life is unknow at higher voltage.

    6vNiMH 6v15w halogen 4lux baseline
    7.2 Li-ion 6v15w halogen 18.8lux
    11.v li-ion 6v 15w halogen bright 0.1 sec, stupid, eh?
    7.2 li-ion 12v 20w halogen 2.8lux
    11.1v li-ion 12v 20w halogen 14.5lux
    14.8v li-ion 12v 20w halogen 35.5lux
    niterider li-ion flight HID/led 11.5lux
    old 2 year HID 13.2v nimh niterider 23 lux
    30w hid trail tech on 11.1v li-ion 66lux
    mx power 3-cree 23lux
    ultrafire wf-500 3-cree 25lux
    trailtech HID 16.5lux
    niterider 13.2niMH cyclone HID/led 17.3lux
    6v 4 led 500ma 24lux
    7.2v li-ion 4 led 500ma 27.5lux
    6v NiMH 4 led 750ma 10.3lux circuit that take 9-18v power
    7.2v li-ion 4 led 750ma 25lux
    11.1v li-ion 4 led 750ma 37lux
    14.8v li-ion 4 led 750ma 37lux.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by itsdoable
    Thus as long as the geometry is identical for all lights, you can get an idea of how total light output compares with each unit, regardless of beam pattern and hot spots.
    Good feedback again.

    Thinking about what you said and looking at the photo, it seems some lights are taller than other and could be blocking some light. I should lower the light to the meter level. I'll check if this changes any of the data.

    fc
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  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by All Mountain
    great work francois

    any chance on getting an Adventure Lighting Products "iBlast!" in the shootout ?~?
    Sure, New Zealand company Iblaast right? I'll contact them and see what happens.

    fc
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  34. #34
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    Ayup review is up with some comments from the manufacturer as well.

    http://reviews.mtbr.com/blog/ayup-regular-kit/

    fc
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  35. #35
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    Thanks for confirming what I have had going in my mind for the last 5 years using the Jet Halogen - a very good light for a reasonable price.

    Now I just need to get some new li-ion cells for it!

    Quote Originally Posted by francois

    Here's the preliminary results. The Jet Halogen is a huge surprise.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by 006_007
    Thanks for confirming what I have had going in my mind for the last 5 years using the Jet Halogen - a very good light for a reasonable price.

    Now I just need to get some new li-ion cells for it!

    So, Halogen is not dead. Is HID dead?

  37. #37
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    Not sure about the approach of measuring the "reflected" lux reading at the meter.
    Think about this :
    If you had a really wide flood versus a really spot light aimed at a very reflective surface.
    Since lux is lumens / watt, the measrment of reflected light at the lux meter would be dependant on how spotty the light is and the "reflectance" of the surface. So I do not think this is a good approach.

    Maybe it would be better to measure directly the lux at X meters at a number of angles. 0 degrees, 10 , 25, 45, 60, 90 .
    Then you can plot the curves to show the relative intensity of the different lights. Sorry - more measurements but maybe then you could intergate the curve to calculate lumens ?
    Some CPF guru could probably pitch in here ?

  38. #38
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    The Phantom-Starfire combo is still one of the best out there. It's not sexy or easy being halogen but they get the job done and shame a lot of HIDs and LEDs in the process.

    EDIT- If I had to give up my Lupines, I'd probably go back to my Jet Phantom and add a Starfire or two (just for good measure) on the bar. I really like the color of that beam and the reach and width is also impressive. Hats off to Jet Lites for creating such a classic.

  39. #39
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    Not sure - am intending to skip it altogether though and get some LED to go along with my halogens.....

    Quote Originally Posted by richwolf
    So, Halogen is not dead. Is HID dead?

  40. #40
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    The thing about HID is that not everyone made a really good one. The Edison and ARC were the best I have seen in the US while HID technologies and Vicious Power made stunning HIDs but were never really available here. Maybe they (HIDs) are still going strong in Europe and Australia.

    My main problem with them was the high cost of replacement bulbs but the ones I mentioned had light quality that was hard to beat. The ARC is so popular and a fantastic light but it was the dimmest one. Nite Rider just sells whatever they churn out, Lume never caught on with their narrow beam, and Jet did okay but I think their Halogens sold the best for them.

    I think we will see HID's effective demise by 2009 though the few good ones still produce light quality hard to beat till you get to the really good LEDs. Halogens will be around for a long time but HIDs will probably fade away from the bike scene as HID bike-light manufacturers focus on LEDs in 2008 and 2009.

    HIDs will still rule in high-end cars for several years. In that size, they are unbeatable right now and produce the best light of all.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by heatstroke
    Not sure about the approach of measuring the "reflected" lux reading at the meter.
    Think about this :
    If you had a really wide flood versus a really spot light aimed at a very reflective surface.
    Since lux is lumens / watt, the measrment of reflected light at the lux meter would be dependant on how spotty the light is and the "reflectance" of the surface. So I do not think this is a good approach.

    Maybe it would be better to measure directly the lux at X meters at a number of angles. 0 degrees, 10 , 25, 45, 60, 90 .
    Then you can plot the curves to show the relative intensity of the different lights. Sorry - more measurements but maybe then you could intergate the curve to calculate lumens ?
    Some CPF guru could probably pitch in here ?
    The beauty of the ambient Lux reading is it's simple and consistent. Also, the results verify what I observe and what the beam pattern photos show. The readings don't necessarily agree with the manufacturer lumen claims which is a key finding.

    The direct lux measurements described above is useful I'm sure but I don't have the extra many hours. And the bigger problem is they're pretty inconsistent. A reading at 10 degrees from 1 meter is all over the map just moving the light meter a millimeter either way.

    fc
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  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flyer
    The thing about HID is that not everyone made a really good one. The Edison and ARC were the best I have seen in the US while HID technologies and Vicious Power made stunning HIDs but were never really available here. Maybe they (HIDs) are still going strong in Europe and Australia.

    My main problem with them was the high cost of replacement bulbs but the ones I mentioned had light quality that was hard to beat. The ARC is so popular and a fantastic light but it was the dimmest one. Nite Rider just sells whatever they churn out, Lume never caught on with their narrow beam, and Jet did okay but I think their Halogens sold the best for them.

    I think we will see HID's effective demise by 2009 though the few good ones still produce light quality hard to beat till you get to the really good LEDs. Halogens will be around for a long time but HIDs will probably fade away from the bike scene as HID bike-light manufacturers focus on LEDs in 2008 and 2009.

    HIDs will still rule in high-end cars for several years. In that size, they are unbeatable right now and produce the best light of all.
    Good points. Btw, Jet Lites is releasing an LED light(s) this summer.

    fc
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  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flyer
    ... Maybe they (HIDs) are still going strong in Europe and Australia.....
    Yup, there a couple smaller co's still making descent HID's here in Australia. With Ayup (Aus) and Adventure Lighting Products (NZ) things are slowly shifting to LED. The 'big brand' bike light brands usually end up too dear to buy once they are distributed in.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by francois
    Good feedback again.

    Thinking about what you said and looking at the photo, it seems some lights are taller than other and could be blocking some light. I should lower the light to the meter level. I'll check if this changes any of the data.

    fc
    I wouldn't lower the light all the way to the meter level, you don't want the periphery spill to strick the dome directly, maybe lower it to an inch above the top of the dome. The DiNottes 200L's are going to give you some problems since they have that transparent gasket that shines a lot of light directly out the side - you'd have to mask that with back tape or something.

    I'd also be careful about moving things around in the room/garage. Anything that is lit up, will affect the meter. If you move something in the room, then the reflected light can be changed. Being closer or farther from a wall will affect the meter too, so consistent geometry is important.

    We can define a new unit of measurement for lights - a "standard francois room"

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by francois
    Good points. Btw, Jet Lites is releasing an LED light(s) this summer.

    fc
    Dang! And I was ready to buy something else! Maybe I should wait because I LOVE my Jet PSB!
    The standing eight count & three knockdown rules are in effect on this trail.

    http://compvelo.com/content/

  46. #46
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    New addition today with the Cateye triple shot!

    Francis - under "mounting options" for the triple shot it says; "The Knog 605 can only be mounted on the handlebar."

    Opps!
    The standing eight count & three knockdown rules are in effect on this trail.

    http://compvelo.com/content/

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by xray_ed
    New addition today with the Cateye triple shot!

    Francis - under "mounting options" for the triple shot it says; "The Knog 605 can only be mounted on the handlebar."

    Opps!
    Fixed. thank you!

    fc
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  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by francois
    Here's the preliminary results. The Jet Halogen is a huge surprise.
    <table x:str="" style="border-collapse: collapse; width: 329pt;" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="438"><col style="width: 144pt;" width="192"> <col style="width: 48pt;" width="64"> <col style="width: 60pt;" width="80"> <col style="width: 77pt;" width="102"> <tbody><tr style="height: 72pt;" height="96"> <td class="xl26" style="height: 72pt; width: 144pt;" height="96" width="192">Light</td> <td class="xl26" style="width: 48pt;" width="64">Price</td> <td class="xl26" style="width: 60pt;" width="80">Claimed Lumens</td> <td class="xl26" style="width: 77pt;" width="102">Ambient Lux</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">Light and Motion Vega</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="175" align="right">$175</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">75</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">5</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">Cateye Tripleshot</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="330" align="right">$330</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">130</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">11</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">Light and Motion Stella 180L</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="300" align="right">$300</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">180</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">12</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">Niterider Minewt.X2</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="190" align="right">$190</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">150</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">12</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">Exposure Joystick Maxx</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="250" align="right">$250</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">240</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">14</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">Levin Brightstar</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="270" align="right">$270</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">500</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">15</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">Ayup helmet</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="190" align="right">$190</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">280</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">16</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" x:str="Dinotte 200L " height="19">Dinotte 200L </td> <td class="xl27" x:num="249" align="right">$249</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">200</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">16</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">Knog 605</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="399" align="right">$399</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">300</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">16</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">Ayup bar (regular kit)</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="190" align="right">$190</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">280</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">17</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">Exposure Race Maxx</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="350" align="right">$350</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">480</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">24</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">BR Lights C2.1H</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="330" align="right">$330</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">410</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">28</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">BR Lights Jeni H</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="299" align="right">$299</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">410</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">28</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">Exposure Enduro Maxx</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="450" align="right">$450</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">720</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">30</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">Jet Lites Shadow 2600 HID</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="500" align="right">$500</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">675</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">30</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">Dinotte 200L Dual</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="349" align="right">$349</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">400</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">32</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">Dinotte 600-LI-4C</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="399" align="right">$399</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">600</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">33</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">Light On Expedition 1000</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="800" align="right">$800</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">500</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">33</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">Niterider Trinewt</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="500" align="right">$500</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">500</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">33</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">Jet Lites Phantom Halogen</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="295" align="right">$295</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">675</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">44</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">Lupine Betty 12</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="1185" align="right">$1,185</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">1400</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">65</td> </tr> </tbody></table>
    I copied this into an Excel spreadsheet and then did a few basic formulas, and then sorted the results by ascending order. The results of Lux per $$ (who sells the cheapest illumination) is interesting, as is the ratio of measured lux per claimed lumen (i.e., whose claimed brightness is the closest to what you measured). Great info, keep it up.
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  49. #49
    fc
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    Quote Originally Posted by tscheezy
    I copied this into an Excel spreadsheet and then did a few basic formulas, and then sorted the results by ascending order. The results of Lux per $$ (who sells the cheapest illumination) is interesting, as is the ratio of measured lux per claimed lumen (i.e., whose claimed brightness is the closest to what you measured). Great info, keep it up.
    post it up man. That's on my todo list.

    fc
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  50. #50
    No, that's not phonetic
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    Here ya go. First off, the colors just sort of offer a visual grouping of the mtbr lux values divided by $ msrp. Green is for the under $10 per lux lights, yellow $11-13, orange $14-16, red $17-19, and gray over $20.

    I also divided lux by claimed lumens, and then made each light a fraction of the highest value (in this case, the Cateye Tripleshot). This gives a relative thumbnail idea of who's lumen claim was closest to Francis' lux measurement compared to other lights, using the Tripleshot as a value of "1". Only the Enduro Maxx and Levin Brightstar were below 50% on this relative (and somewhat arbitrary) scale. While in reality it is probably pretty meaningless, it's sort of interesting to see how a company's claims about a particular light seem to measure up to another's.

    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

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