Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 100 of 278
  1. #1
    fc
    fc is offline
    stoked Administrator
    Reputation: fc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 1996
    Posts
    28,033

    Lights shootout comments

    Please check it for accuracy and typos. I'd like to announce the shootout today. I'm planning to publish a couple light articles a day starting tomorrow as the page formatting progresses.

    http://reviews.mtbr.com/blog/lights-...-introduction/

    fc
    IPA will save America

  2. #2
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    8,921
    Great start, francois. However, you are such a tease..

  3. #3
    mtbr member
    Reputation: striegel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    38
    Suggested changes to one paragraph of the article:

    "With the combination of LEDs, lithium batteries, better electronics and chargers, this new crop of lights promises to deliver a much better and safer night riding experience."

  4. #4
    fc
    fc is offline
    stoked Administrator
    Reputation: fc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 1996
    Posts
    28,033
    Quote Originally Posted by Flyer
    Great start, francois. However, you are such a tease..
    Yeah... I have dual, side by side beam pattern rollovers even. Super geeky!

    I'll send you a secret link to the beam pattern shots since you are one of the premier contributors here and I could use the feedback.

    fc
    IPA will save America

  5. #5
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    8,921
    It would be a pleasure to help, francois. You have transcended basic beamshots- that's very impressive.

  6. #6
    mtbr member
    Reputation: 006_007's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    9,017
    Looks really interesting - I am clicking on everything in there to find comparisons on a Jet 20W VS Niterider HID VS Lupine Betty........

    Quote Originally Posted by francois
    Please check it for accuracy and typos. I'd like to announce the shootout today. I'm planning to publish a couple light articles a day starting tomorrow as the page formatting progresses.

    http://reviews.mtbr.com/blog/lights-...-introduction/

    fc

  7. #7
    mtbr member
    Reputation: itsdoable's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,903
    Looking good. I won't check for typos, because that would be asking a fish to walk on land. But the info is good - I don't necessarily agree with everything, but there's nothing I would object to (and if we all thought the same, then we should have had world peace by now). Great work!

    Cheers,

    Tom

  8. #8
    Purveyor of Trail Tales!
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    1,178
    Quote Originally Posted by Flyer
    Great start, francois. However, you are such a tease..
    Hi Flyer,

    I agree about the tease part! That said, it's all great information and I'm anxious to see more of it.

    Thanks,

    Michael
    If you can't keep the rubber side down......at least smile for the camera!

  9. #9
    dweeby
    Guest
    Love it, Very interesting reading and I'm glad DIY lights will be encluded.
    One small thing though, leds are chips and not bulbs.

  10. #10
    mtbr member
    Reputation: BrooklynMachine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    41
    we're very, very excited about this test. Thanks a ton!

  11. #11
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    8,921
    It's looking really good with clean page-layout and very effective writing. I'll check back each day for new reviews.

    By the way, a LED used in bike lights is contained within a bulb. There is a chip (Light Emitting Diode) contained within the bulb. So the use of the word "lamp" or "bulb" is still accurate though the LED itself is not a bulb. It is a diode that emits light when "powered up" in a circuit.

  12. #12
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    4,523
    I'm eager to read more reviews. Can you please put the "Light Price Claimed Lumens" data in a table so it is more readable?

  13. #13
    fc
    fc is offline
    stoked Administrator
    Reputation: fc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 1996
    Posts
    28,033
    Knog is up. Flyer... proofread pls.

    fc
    IPA will save America

  14. #14
    Team Hammer
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    108
    No Princeton Tech Lights to be compared?
    Get 15% off your first Hammer Nutrition order by clicking here.
    Check out my blog at SquidBuzz's Garage

  15. #15
    fc
    fc is offline
    stoked Administrator
    Reputation: fc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 1996
    Posts
    28,033
    Quote Originally Posted by SquidBuzz
    No Princeton Tech Lights to be compared?
    These are coming. 2 models arriving today...

    fc
    IPA will save America

  16. #16
    mtbr member
    Reputation: striegel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    38
    Suggestions:

    In the first paragraph, instead of simply saying, "a nice lighthead.", I think you should be more specific, saying something like "It features a nicely styled, single lighthead with three LEDs."

    Second paragraph -- instead of, "Each of the three LEDs come with their own switch that operates independently.", it should read, "Each of the three LEDs comes with its own switch that operates independently."

    Maybe you could be more descriptive of the materials too. Is that an anodized aluminum front bezel? Is the back molded of solid plastic with a rubbery feel? That integrated rubbery band can be a plus and a minus.

    In the Bottom Line section -- instead of, "Thereís a lot of light levels and the flash mode works well for commuters. But on the trail, itís not quite bright enough and some usability issues hold it back. The amount of light the rider gets for the money is not very high. Also, some of the design issues like the switch hold back its trail usability.", try the following, "There are lots of light levels and the flash mode works well for commuters. But on the trail, itís not quite bright enough and some usability issues hold it back. The amount of light the rider gets for the money is not very high. Also some of the design issues, like the switches, limit its trail usability."

  17. #17
    fc
    fc is offline
    stoked Administrator
    Reputation: fc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 1996
    Posts
    28,033
    Quote Originally Posted by striegel
    Suggestions:

    In the first paragraph, instead of simply saying, "a nice lighthead.", I think you should be more specific, saying something like "It features a nicely styled, single lighthead with three LEDs."

    Second paragraph -- instead of, "Each of the three LEDs come with their own switch that operates independently.", it should read, "Each of the three LEDs comes with its own switch that operates independently."

    Maybe you could be more descriptive of the materials too. Is that an anodized aluminum front bezel? Is the back molded of solid plastic with a rubbery feel? That integrated rubbery band can be a plus and a minus.

    In the Bottom Line section -- instead of, "Thereís a lot of light levels and the flash mode works well for commuters. But on the trail, itís not quite bright enough and some usability issues hold it back. The amount of light the rider gets for the money is not very high. Also, some of the design issues like the switch hold back its trail usability.", try the following, "There are lots of light levels and the flash mode works well for commuters. But on the trail, itís not quite bright enough and some usability issues hold it back. The amount of light the rider gets for the money is not very high. Also some of the design issues, like the switches, limit its trail usability."
    Beauty. I will incorporate these changes.

    I'll also add in my light meter readings. At first, I thought they're not relevant until the full set is presented but I can sa it was nth out 25. And state what was right in front of it and behind it in terms of brightness.

    fc
    IPA will save America

  18. #18
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    8,921
    Prefer responses via PM, email, or this thread? I emailed you already.

  19. #19
    Not Smart Enough to Quit
    Reputation: xray_ed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    644
    All I can say is ....hurry! I'm waiting to see the results before pulling the trigger on new lights!

    The bike light manufacturing industry had better take notice of this shootout and use it as a way to improve their products. If they don't, they my be left in the dark!
    The standing eight count & three knockdown rules are in effect on this trail.

    http://compvelo.com/content/

  20. #20
    fc
    fc is offline
    stoked Administrator
    Reputation: fc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 1996
    Posts
    28,033
    Quote Originally Posted by Flyer
    Prefer responses via PM, email, or this thread? I emailed you already.
    Please PM it to me or post it here. My email is broke! Big norcal storm.

    fc
    IPA will save America

  21. #21
    mtbr member
    Reputation: striegel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    38
    Correction to latest edit:

    "...into the light headThe first two LEDs..." needs a period and space after head.

  22. #22
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    4,523
    You should put them each on their own page, or you should at least provide links with anchors in the page. Otherwise it will take a lot of scrolling to get where you want to be.

  23. #23
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    4,523
    Also, I'm not sure I undestand this part in the Ayup review:

    "Light Output Measurements:

    The narrow helmet mount measured a 16 and the wider bar light measured a 17. The closest competitors are the Knog 605 at 16 and the Exposure Race Maxx at 24."

  24. #24
    fc
    fc is offline
    stoked Administrator
    Reputation: fc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 1996
    Posts
    28,033
    Quote Originally Posted by Wish I Were Riding
    You should put them each on their own page, or you should at least provide links with anchors in the page. Otherwise it will take a lot of scrolling to get where you want to be.
    done! good suggestion.

    fc
    IPA will save America

  25. #25
    fc
    fc is offline
    stoked Administrator
    Reputation: fc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 1996
    Posts
    28,033
    Quote Originally Posted by Wish I Were Riding
    Also, I'm not sure I undestand this part in the Ayup review:

    "Light Output Measurements:

    The narrow helmet mount measured a 16 and the wider bar light measured a 17. The closest competitors are the Knog 605 at 16 and the Exposure Race Maxx at 24."
    That's 16 Lux. I have a page dedicated just for the light meter test but it's not ready yet. Here's a sneak peak.

    The light is pointed at the ceiling and the meter is beside it, pointed up as well.

    <img src="http://reviews.mtbr.com/files/2008/01/img_2724.jpg">

    Here's the preliminary results. The Jet Halogen is a huge surprise.

    <table x:str="" style="border-collapse: collapse; width: 329pt;" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="438"><col style="width: 144pt;" width="192"> <col style="width: 48pt;" width="64"> <col style="width: 60pt;" width="80"> <col style="width: 77pt;" width="102"> <tbody><tr style="height: 72pt;" height="96"> <td class="xl26" style="height: 72pt; width: 144pt;" height="96" width="192">Light</td> <td class="xl26" style="width: 48pt;" width="64">Price</td> <td class="xl26" style="width: 60pt;" width="80">Claimed Lumens</td> <td class="xl26" style="width: 77pt;" width="102">Ambient Lux</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">Light and Motion Vega</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="175" align="right">$175</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">75</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">5</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">Cateye Tripleshot</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="330" align="right">$330</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">130</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">11</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">Light and Motion Stella 180L</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="300" align="right">$300</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">180</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">12</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">Niterider Minewt.X2</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="190" align="right">$190</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">150</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">12</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">Exposure Joystick Maxx</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="250" align="right">$250</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">240</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">14</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">Levin Brightstar</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="270" align="right">$270</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">500</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">15</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">Ayup helmet</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="190" align="right">$190</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">280</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">16</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" x:str="Dinotte 200L " height="19">Dinotte 200L </td> <td class="xl27" x:num="249" align="right">$249</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">200</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">16</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">Knog 605</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="399" align="right">$399</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">300</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">16</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">Ayup bar (regular kit)</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="190" align="right">$190</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">280</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">17</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">Exposure Race Maxx</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="350" align="right">$350</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">480</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">24</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">BR Lights C2.1H</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="330" align="right">$330</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">410</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">28</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">BR Lights Jeni H</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="299" align="right">$299</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">410</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">28</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">Exposure Enduro Maxx</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="450" align="right">$450</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">720</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">30</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">Jet Lites Shadow 2600 HID</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="500" align="right">$500</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">675</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">30</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">Dinotte 200L Dual</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="349" align="right">$349</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">400</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">32</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">Dinotte 600-LI-4C</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="399" align="right">$399</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">600</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">33</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">Light On Expedition 1000</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="800" align="right">$800</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">500</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">33</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">Niterider Trinewt</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="500" align="right">$500</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">500</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">33</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">Jet Lites Phantom Halogen</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="295" align="right">$295</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">675</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">44</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">Lupine Betty 12</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="1185" align="right">$1,185</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">1400</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">65</td> </tr> </tbody></table>
    IPA will save America

  26. #26
    mtbr member
    Reputation: James@GearReview's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    304
    I wonder what effect, if any, the color temperature has on the meter.

    That Jet is intriguing.

    Quote Originally Posted by francois
    That's 16 Lux. I have a page dedicated just for the light meter test but it's not ready yet. Here's a sneak peak.

    The light is pointed at the ceiling and the meter is beside it, pointed up as well.



    Here's the preliminary results. The Jet Halogen is a huge surprise.

    <table x:str="" style="border-collapse: collapse; width: 329pt;" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="438"><col style="width: 144pt;" width="192"> <col style="width: 48pt;" width="64"> <col style="width: 60pt;" width="80"> <col style="width: 77pt;" width="102"> <tbody><tr style="height: 72pt;" height="96"> <td class="xl26" style="height: 72pt; width: 144pt;" height="96" width="192">Light</td> <td class="xl26" style="width: 48pt;" width="64">Price</td> <td class="xl26" style="width: 60pt;" width="80">Claimed Lumens</td> <td class="xl26" style="width: 77pt;" width="102">Ambient Lux</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">Light and Motion Vega</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="175" align="right">$175</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">75</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">5</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">Cateye Tripleshot</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="330" align="right">$330</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">130</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">11</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">Light and Motion Stella 180L</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="300" align="right">$300</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">180</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">12</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">Niterider Minewt.X2</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="190" align="right">$190</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">150</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">12</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">Exposure Joystick Maxx</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="250" align="right">$250</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">240</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">14</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">Levin Brightstar</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="270" align="right">$270</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">500</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">15</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">Ayup helmet</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="190" align="right">$190</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">280</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">16</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" x:str="Dinotte 200L " height="19">Dinotte 200L </td> <td class="xl27" x:num="249" align="right">$249</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">200</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">16</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">Knog 605</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="399" align="right">$399</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">300</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">16</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">Ayup bar (regular kit)</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="190" align="right">$190</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">280</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">17</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">Exposure Race Maxx</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="350" align="right">$350</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">480</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">24</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">BR Lights C2.1H</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="330" align="right">$330</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">410</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">28</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">BR Lights Jeni H</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="299" align="right">$299</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">410</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">28</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">Exposure Enduro Maxx</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="450" align="right">$450</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">720</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">30</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">Jet Lites Shadow 2600 HID</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="500" align="right">$500</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">675</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">30</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">Dinotte 200L Dual</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="349" align="right">$349</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">400</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">32</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">Dinotte 600-LI-4C</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="399" align="right">$399</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">600</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">33</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">Light On Expedition 1000</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="800" align="right">$800</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">500</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">33</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">Niterider Trinewt</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="500" align="right">$500</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">500</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">33</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">Jet Lites Phantom Halogen</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="295" align="right">$295</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">675</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">44</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">Lupine Betty 12</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="1185" align="right">$1,185</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">1400</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">65</td> </tr> </tbody></table>

  27. #27
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    42

    rearding meter mesurements,

    hello,

    igot the genaral idea, i understand that obveiously 30 is more lux light than 5,

    but this still does not tell me, what i think would be more useful or helpful info,

    is you aim a light on the wall about five feet from the wall and mesure the bright

    hotspot, how many lumens bright, the brightest part of the beam is, and also

    mesure if possible exactly how many lumens of light is actully really comeing out

    of a light,


    i bet 200L is,nt coming out of the 200L minus optic loss, i reackon problebly more

    like 180 - 185 lumens,

    can you clear this up francois,


    great stuff well done, keep up the good work,


    thanks,

  28. #28
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    293
    Quote Originally Posted by david 290
    hello,

    igot the genaral idea, i understand that obveiously 30 is more lux light than 5,

    but this still does not tell me, what i think would be more useful or helpful info,

    is you aim a light on the wall about five feet from the wall and mesure the bright

    hotspot, how many lumens bright, the brightest part of the beam is, and also

    mesure if possible exactly how many lumens of light is actully really comeing out

    of a light,


    i bet 200L is,nt coming out of the 200L minus optic loss, i reackon problebly more

    like 180 - 185 lumens,

    can you clear this up francois,


    great stuff well done, keep up the good work,


    thanks,
    forget about lumens for a second, hard to convert lumens to lux. if you can use the lux as a based for all the testing, then lux would be your number. most manufacture lumens are over inflated anyways. lux meter reading against the ceiling doesn't tell you where the bright spot are or how bright is the center. that is what beam shot photo are for, photo tells you where is brightest spot is and beam pattern is. What he measure is the overall light output after the lens against a ceiling in a dark room. A single spot led can be as bright as 12 spot led at the light meter at one inch distance. now the interesting part, if you change the same brand len from spot to flood. the lux reading the about the same against the ceiling. It would be interesting to see the differenet brand's HID into comparsion also. if you would really like to see the beam pattern on a computer graph, then check this betty, wilma, 600L out:
    http://acidinmylegs.blogspot.com/sea...max-results=50

  29. #29
    mtbr member
    Reputation: itsdoable's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,903
    Quote Originally Posted by francois
    The light is pointed at the ceiling and the meter is beside it, pointed up as well.

    <img src="http://reviews.mtbr.com/files/2008/01/img_2724.jpg">
    Colour issues aside, this is a nice way to compare relative outputs. The light meter has an incident dome, which integrates all the light reaching it from a 180 deg view. Thus as long as the geometry is identical for all lights, you can get an idea of how total light output compares with each unit, regardless of beam pattern and hot spots. It's like using an integrating sphere, only you are using the inside of the garage instead(which isn't perfectly uniform or calibrated, but good to a first approximation).

    The only problem is that it is not repeatable by someone else (or somewhere else). But that shouldn't be big issue.

    Nice work, interesting data!

  30. #30
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    6,212
    great work francois

    any chance on getting an Adventure Lighting Products "iBlast!" in the shootout ?~?

  31. #31
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    293
    Quote Originally Posted by James@GearReview
    I wonder what effect, if any, the color temperature has on the meter.

    That Jet is intriguing.
    Here is another twist to think about, I have a old 6v 15w halogen with 6v NiMH fully charge used 20 times that read 4lux on the light meter. remember that each dark room condition is different, so lux reading is different in their own testing enviroment, but here is a base for your thought. with 7.2li-ion battery, the 6v 15w now reads 18.8 lux. so I'm sure that JET halogen is over volted with shorter bulb life. but by how much is the question. I'm trying to borrow a 600L, so there is a baseline to compare to Francois's test.

    my lux meter test: halogen bulb life is unknow at higher voltage.

    6vNiMH 6v15w halogen 4lux baseline
    7.2 Li-ion 6v15w halogen 18.8lux
    11.v li-ion 6v 15w halogen bright 0.1 sec, stupid, eh?
    7.2 li-ion 12v 20w halogen 2.8lux
    11.1v li-ion 12v 20w halogen 14.5lux
    14.8v li-ion 12v 20w halogen 35.5lux
    niterider li-ion flight HID/led 11.5lux
    old 2 year HID 13.2v nimh niterider 23 lux
    30w hid trail tech on 11.1v li-ion 66lux
    mx power 3-cree 23lux
    ultrafire wf-500 3-cree 25lux
    trailtech HID 16.5lux
    niterider 13.2niMH cyclone HID/led 17.3lux
    6v 4 led 500ma 24lux
    7.2v li-ion 4 led 500ma 27.5lux
    6v NiMH 4 led 750ma 10.3lux circuit that take 9-18v power
    7.2v li-ion 4 led 750ma 25lux
    11.1v li-ion 4 led 750ma 37lux
    14.8v li-ion 4 led 750ma 37lux.

  32. #32
    fc
    fc is offline
    stoked Administrator
    Reputation: fc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 1996
    Posts
    28,033
    Quote Originally Posted by itsdoable
    Thus as long as the geometry is identical for all lights, you can get an idea of how total light output compares with each unit, regardless of beam pattern and hot spots.
    Good feedback again.

    Thinking about what you said and looking at the photo, it seems some lights are taller than other and could be blocking some light. I should lower the light to the meter level. I'll check if this changes any of the data.

    fc
    IPA will save America

  33. #33
    fc
    fc is offline
    stoked Administrator
    Reputation: fc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 1996
    Posts
    28,033
    Quote Originally Posted by All Mountain
    great work francois

    any chance on getting an Adventure Lighting Products "iBlast!" in the shootout ?~?
    Sure, New Zealand company Iblaast right? I'll contact them and see what happens.

    fc
    IPA will save America

  34. #34
    fc
    fc is offline
    stoked Administrator
    Reputation: fc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 1996
    Posts
    28,033
    Ayup review is up with some comments from the manufacturer as well.

    http://reviews.mtbr.com/blog/ayup-regular-kit/

    fc
    IPA will save America

  35. #35
    mtbr member
    Reputation: 006_007's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    9,017
    Thanks for confirming what I have had going in my mind for the last 5 years using the Jet Halogen - a very good light for a reasonable price.

    Now I just need to get some new li-ion cells for it!

    Quote Originally Posted by francois

    Here's the preliminary results. The Jet Halogen is a huge surprise.

  36. #36
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    3,077
    Quote Originally Posted by 006_007
    Thanks for confirming what I have had going in my mind for the last 5 years using the Jet Halogen - a very good light for a reasonable price.

    Now I just need to get some new li-ion cells for it!

    So, Halogen is not dead. Is HID dead?

  37. #37
    mtbr member
    Reputation: heatstroke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    1,064
    Not sure about the approach of measuring the "reflected" lux reading at the meter.
    Think about this :
    If you had a really wide flood versus a really spot light aimed at a very reflective surface.
    Since lux is lumens / watt, the measrment of reflected light at the lux meter would be dependant on how spotty the light is and the "reflectance" of the surface. So I do not think this is a good approach.

    Maybe it would be better to measure directly the lux at X meters at a number of angles. 0 degrees, 10 , 25, 45, 60, 90 .
    Then you can plot the curves to show the relative intensity of the different lights. Sorry - more measurements but maybe then you could intergate the curve to calculate lumens ?
    Some CPF guru could probably pitch in here ?

  38. #38
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    8,921
    The Phantom-Starfire combo is still one of the best out there. It's not sexy or easy being halogen but they get the job done and shame a lot of HIDs and LEDs in the process.

    EDIT- If I had to give up my Lupines, I'd probably go back to my Jet Phantom and add a Starfire or two (just for good measure) on the bar. I really like the color of that beam and the reach and width is also impressive. Hats off to Jet Lites for creating such a classic.

  39. #39
    mtbr member
    Reputation: 006_007's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    9,017
    Not sure - am intending to skip it altogether though and get some LED to go along with my halogens.....

    Quote Originally Posted by richwolf
    So, Halogen is not dead. Is HID dead?

  40. #40
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    8,921
    The thing about HID is that not everyone made a really good one. The Edison and ARC were the best I have seen in the US while HID technologies and Vicious Power made stunning HIDs but were never really available here. Maybe they (HIDs) are still going strong in Europe and Australia.

    My main problem with them was the high cost of replacement bulbs but the ones I mentioned had light quality that was hard to beat. The ARC is so popular and a fantastic light but it was the dimmest one. Nite Rider just sells whatever they churn out, Lume never caught on with their narrow beam, and Jet did okay but I think their Halogens sold the best for them.

    I think we will see HID's effective demise by 2009 though the few good ones still produce light quality hard to beat till you get to the really good LEDs. Halogens will be around for a long time but HIDs will probably fade away from the bike scene as HID bike-light manufacturers focus on LEDs in 2008 and 2009.

    HIDs will still rule in high-end cars for several years. In that size, they are unbeatable right now and produce the best light of all.

  41. #41
    fc
    fc is offline
    stoked Administrator
    Reputation: fc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 1996
    Posts
    28,033
    Quote Originally Posted by heatstroke
    Not sure about the approach of measuring the "reflected" lux reading at the meter.
    Think about this :
    If you had a really wide flood versus a really spot light aimed at a very reflective surface.
    Since lux is lumens / watt, the measrment of reflected light at the lux meter would be dependant on how spotty the light is and the "reflectance" of the surface. So I do not think this is a good approach.

    Maybe it would be better to measure directly the lux at X meters at a number of angles. 0 degrees, 10 , 25, 45, 60, 90 .
    Then you can plot the curves to show the relative intensity of the different lights. Sorry - more measurements but maybe then you could intergate the curve to calculate lumens ?
    Some CPF guru could probably pitch in here ?
    The beauty of the ambient Lux reading is it's simple and consistent. Also, the results verify what I observe and what the beam pattern photos show. The readings don't necessarily agree with the manufacturer lumen claims which is a key finding.

    The direct lux measurements described above is useful I'm sure but I don't have the extra many hours. And the bigger problem is they're pretty inconsistent. A reading at 10 degrees from 1 meter is all over the map just moving the light meter a millimeter either way.

    fc
    IPA will save America

  42. #42
    fc
    fc is offline
    stoked Administrator
    Reputation: fc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 1996
    Posts
    28,033
    Quote Originally Posted by Flyer
    The thing about HID is that not everyone made a really good one. The Edison and ARC were the best I have seen in the US while HID technologies and Vicious Power made stunning HIDs but were never really available here. Maybe they (HIDs) are still going strong in Europe and Australia.

    My main problem with them was the high cost of replacement bulbs but the ones I mentioned had light quality that was hard to beat. The ARC is so popular and a fantastic light but it was the dimmest one. Nite Rider just sells whatever they churn out, Lume never caught on with their narrow beam, and Jet did okay but I think their Halogens sold the best for them.

    I think we will see HID's effective demise by 2009 though the few good ones still produce light quality hard to beat till you get to the really good LEDs. Halogens will be around for a long time but HIDs will probably fade away from the bike scene as HID bike-light manufacturers focus on LEDs in 2008 and 2009.

    HIDs will still rule in high-end cars for several years. In that size, they are unbeatable right now and produce the best light of all.
    Good points. Btw, Jet Lites is releasing an LED light(s) this summer.

    fc
    IPA will save America

  43. #43
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    6,212
    Quote Originally Posted by Flyer
    ... Maybe they (HIDs) are still going strong in Europe and Australia.....
    Yup, there a couple smaller co's still making descent HID's here in Australia. With Ayup (Aus) and Adventure Lighting Products (NZ) things are slowly shifting to LED. The 'big brand' bike light brands usually end up too dear to buy once they are distributed in.

  44. #44
    mtbr member
    Reputation: itsdoable's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,903
    Quote Originally Posted by francois
    Good feedback again.

    Thinking about what you said and looking at the photo, it seems some lights are taller than other and could be blocking some light. I should lower the light to the meter level. I'll check if this changes any of the data.

    fc
    I wouldn't lower the light all the way to the meter level, you don't want the periphery spill to strick the dome directly, maybe lower it to an inch above the top of the dome. The DiNottes 200L's are going to give you some problems since they have that transparent gasket that shines a lot of light directly out the side - you'd have to mask that with back tape or something.

    I'd also be careful about moving things around in the room/garage. Anything that is lit up, will affect the meter. If you move something in the room, then the reflected light can be changed. Being closer or farther from a wall will affect the meter too, so consistent geometry is important.

    We can define a new unit of measurement for lights - a "standard francois room"

  45. #45
    Not Smart Enough to Quit
    Reputation: xray_ed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    644
    Quote Originally Posted by francois
    Good points. Btw, Jet Lites is releasing an LED light(s) this summer.

    fc
    Dang! And I was ready to buy something else! Maybe I should wait because I LOVE my Jet PSB!
    The standing eight count & three knockdown rules are in effect on this trail.

    http://compvelo.com/content/

  46. #46
    Not Smart Enough to Quit
    Reputation: xray_ed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    644
    New addition today with the Cateye triple shot!

    Francis - under "mounting options" for the triple shot it says; "The Knog 605 can only be mounted on the handlebar."

    Opps!
    The standing eight count & three knockdown rules are in effect on this trail.

    http://compvelo.com/content/

  47. #47
    fc
    fc is offline
    stoked Administrator
    Reputation: fc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 1996
    Posts
    28,033
    Quote Originally Posted by xray_ed
    New addition today with the Cateye triple shot!

    Francis - under "mounting options" for the triple shot it says; "The Knog 605 can only be mounted on the handlebar."

    Opps!
    Fixed. thank you!

    fc
    IPA will save America

  48. #48
    No, that's not phonetic
    Reputation: tscheezy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    14,363
    Quote Originally Posted by francois
    Here's the preliminary results. The Jet Halogen is a huge surprise.
    <table x:str="" style="border-collapse: collapse; width: 329pt;" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="438"><col style="width: 144pt;" width="192"> <col style="width: 48pt;" width="64"> <col style="width: 60pt;" width="80"> <col style="width: 77pt;" width="102"> <tbody><tr style="height: 72pt;" height="96"> <td class="xl26" style="height: 72pt; width: 144pt;" height="96" width="192">Light</td> <td class="xl26" style="width: 48pt;" width="64">Price</td> <td class="xl26" style="width: 60pt;" width="80">Claimed Lumens</td> <td class="xl26" style="width: 77pt;" width="102">Ambient Lux</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">Light and Motion Vega</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="175" align="right">$175</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">75</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">5</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">Cateye Tripleshot</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="330" align="right">$330</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">130</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">11</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">Light and Motion Stella 180L</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="300" align="right">$300</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">180</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">12</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">Niterider Minewt.X2</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="190" align="right">$190</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">150</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">12</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">Exposure Joystick Maxx</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="250" align="right">$250</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">240</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">14</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">Levin Brightstar</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="270" align="right">$270</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">500</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">15</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">Ayup helmet</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="190" align="right">$190</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">280</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">16</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" x:str="Dinotte 200L " height="19">Dinotte 200L </td> <td class="xl27" x:num="249" align="right">$249</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">200</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">16</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">Knog 605</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="399" align="right">$399</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">300</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">16</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">Ayup bar (regular kit)</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="190" align="right">$190</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">280</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">17</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">Exposure Race Maxx</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="350" align="right">$350</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">480</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">24</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">BR Lights C2.1H</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="330" align="right">$330</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">410</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">28</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">BR Lights Jeni H</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="299" align="right">$299</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">410</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">28</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">Exposure Enduro Maxx</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="450" align="right">$450</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">720</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">30</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">Jet Lites Shadow 2600 HID</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="500" align="right">$500</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">675</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">30</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">Dinotte 200L Dual</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="349" align="right">$349</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">400</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">32</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">Dinotte 600-LI-4C</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="399" align="right">$399</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">600</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">33</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">Light On Expedition 1000</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="800" align="right">$800</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">500</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">33</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">Niterider Trinewt</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="500" align="right">$500</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">500</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">33</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">Jet Lites Phantom Halogen</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="295" align="right">$295</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">675</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">44</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 14.25pt;" height="19">Lupine Betty 12</td> <td class="xl27" x:num="1185" align="right">$1,185</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">1400</td> <td class="xl25" x:num="" align="right">65</td> </tr> </tbody></table>
    I copied this into an Excel spreadsheet and then did a few basic formulas, and then sorted the results by ascending order. The results of Lux per $$ (who sells the cheapest illumination) is interesting, as is the ratio of measured lux per claimed lumen (i.e., whose claimed brightness is the closest to what you measured). Great info, keep it up.
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  49. #49
    fc
    fc is offline
    stoked Administrator
    Reputation: fc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 1996
    Posts
    28,033
    Quote Originally Posted by tscheezy
    I copied this into an Excel spreadsheet and then did a few basic formulas, and then sorted the results by ascending order. The results of Lux per $$ (who sells the cheapest illumination) is interesting, as is the ratio of measured lux per claimed lumen (i.e., whose claimed brightness is the closest to what you measured). Great info, keep it up.
    post it up man. That's on my todo list.

    fc
    IPA will save America

  50. #50
    No, that's not phonetic
    Reputation: tscheezy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    14,363
    Here ya go. First off, the colors just sort of offer a visual grouping of the mtbr lux values divided by $ msrp. Green is for the under $10 per lux lights, yellow $11-13, orange $14-16, red $17-19, and gray over $20.

    I also divided lux by claimed lumens, and then made each light a fraction of the highest value (in this case, the Cateye Tripleshot). This gives a relative thumbnail idea of who's lumen claim was closest to Francis' lux measurement compared to other lights, using the Tripleshot as a value of "1". Only the Enduro Maxx and Levin Brightstar were below 50% on this relative (and somewhat arbitrary) scale. While in reality it is probably pretty meaningless, it's sort of interesting to see how a company's claims about a particular light seem to measure up to another's.

    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  51. #51
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    3,077
    Well cheesey, that is pretty cool, but one other factor is street price.
    Some lights, particularly if you buy from the manufacturer, are pretty well set in stone.
    A light like the TriNewt can be had for under $300 without the remote switch. So it's value rating per lux would be more like $9 per lux.

    The Jet light is amazing not because it is a new technology, because it certainly is not, but how well old technology works in comparison to the best of the new technology.

  52. #52
    fc
    fc is offline
    stoked Administrator
    Reputation: fc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 1996
    Posts
    28,033
    Quote Originally Posted by tscheezy
    Here ya go. First off, the colors just sort of offer a visual grouping of the mtbr lux values divided by $ msrp. Green is for the under $10 per lux lights, yellow $11-13, orange $14-16, red $17-19, and gray over $20.

    I also divided lux by claimed lumens, and then made each light a fraction of the highest value (in this case, the Cateye Tripleshot). This gives a relative thumbnail idea of who's lumen claim was closest to Francis' lux measurement compared to other lights, using the Tripleshot as a value of "1". Only the Enduro Maxx and Levin Brightstar were below 50% on this relative (and somewhat arbitrary) scale. While in reality it is probably pretty meaningless, it's sort of interesting to see how a company's claims about a particular light seem to measure up to another's.
    Awesome! One mistake on my part, the Light On Expedition comes with 2 lights for $800 (helmet and bar). Since I only measured one, the price should be $400.

    fc
    IPA will save America

  53. #53
    fc
    fc is offline
    stoked Administrator
    Reputation: fc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 1996
    Posts
    28,033
    IPA will save America

  54. #54
    Spanish biker
    Reputation: msxtr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    732
    francois Thank for you excellent work

    Greetings - Saludos

    msxtr
    Warning!!! my english is very very bad, sorry.

    Easy DIY led light1
    Easy DIY led light2

    The Beast!!!

  55. #55
    mtbr member
    Reputation: MaximusHQ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    662
    Looks great Francois. Cheezey good job breaking it down. One thing I'd like to add is that Lupine sells a Betty 6 for $995 retail with the smaller battery that will get you 3 hours on high so that amounts to $15 per lux which puts it more in the middle of the pack.
    Last edited by MaximusHQ; 01-09-2008 at 06:04 AM.

  56. #56
    Nightriding rules SuperModerator
    Reputation: crisillo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    20,807
    amazing work, francois... I'm not through reading it all...but I am loving it...

  57. #57
    fc
    fc is offline
    stoked Administrator
    Reputation: fc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 1996
    Posts
    28,033
    More lights are in:
    Princeton Tec Switchback 2
    Princeton Tec Switchback 2
    Niteflux Photon Max 12 watt LED $375.00
    Niteflux VisionStick Photon 4 Enduro $203.99

    Now if I can just find a legal place to night ride...

    fc
    IPA will save America

  58. #58
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    8,921
    I was looking forward to the Niteflux Photon Max. I hear this one has incredible reach for a 3-LED setup and relatively advanced power management. The shape is odd but that is due to the cooling fins, which may be pretty effective at forcing air in while moving. I'm not sure about the lighthead weight but the only negative I have read is that there is a pretty concentrated hotspot or section of the beam that one reviewer said was distracting. Apparently, his eyes kept focusing on it DURING the ride since it stands out a lot. I find this to be very true in general though I have not seen or used the Niteflux Photon.

    francois- please look into this with a short ride through a slightly twisty section. Maybe have "watchers" posted on both ends to avoid the Gestapo. If not, just move the light around the trail and see if the hotspot is too reflective or draws your eyes to it while moving.

  59. #59
    MTB B'dos
    Reputation: LyNx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    22,187
    Looking good so far if I might make a suggestion..............make the images open a new window to show the bigger version instead of taking the viewer off the actual review page. Keeps people there instead of having to click back all the time.
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  60. #60
    BM and PQ Trail Rep
    Reputation: bankerboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    1,622
    Loving it so far!

    Can you create a title page with links to each review as they are created rather than haphazardly posting them on the front page?

    In your original intro page you listed each of the lights that you were reveiwing. How about just make those clickable links as the review is completed. It would make it much easier to find the desired review and make the page cleaner.

    Just a suggestion.

  61. #61
    No, that's not phonetic
    Reputation: tscheezy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    14,363
    ...and links to the manufacturer's website at the top of each review so folks can click over and see what other models they offer or to get more info. That'd be super.
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  62. #62
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    293

  63. #63
    mtbr member
    Reputation: chas_martel's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    3,476
    francois, any chance you can test some
    of the cygolite's?
    Nobody cares...........

  64. #64
    fc
    fc is offline
    stoked Administrator
    Reputation: fc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 1996
    Posts
    28,033
    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx
    Looking good so far if I might make a suggestion..............make the images open a new window to show the bigger version instead of taking the viewer off the actual review page. Keeps people there instead of having to click back all the time.
    Good suggestion. I'll check into it.

    fc
    IPA will save America

  65. #65
    fc
    fc is offline
    stoked Administrator
    Reputation: fc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 1996
    Posts
    28,033
    Quote Originally Posted by tscheezy
    ...and links to the manufacturer's website at the top of each review so folks can click over and see what other models they offer or to get more info. That'd be super.
    Yes, and yes to the previous suggestion.

    fc
    IPA will save America

  66. #66
    fc
    fc is offline
    stoked Administrator
    Reputation: fc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 1996
    Posts
    28,033
    Quote Originally Posted by chas_martel
    francois, any chance you can test some
    of the cygolite's?
    Cygolite is out of press products so they will send lights as soon as they're availalble.

    Cause I'm not buyin nuthin... .

    fc
    IPA will save America

  67. #67
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    8,921
    Nice response from them...NOT! Most companies comprehend what a positive impact these tests can have on a product. Maybe they sell enough and don't need another stinkin' annual test to tell people that their lights are amazing

  68. #68
    I <3 Dirt
    Reputation: mealsonwheels's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    724
    Forgive me if someone already suggested this, but I have been debating between Trail Tech's SC MR 16 HID with 1,850 lumens and the Betty for my second light. I'd love to see a review of this with beam pattern so I can compare between the two. I'd prefer the Betty as it's LED with raving reviews, but the price of the Trail Tech is way more within my budget.

    Excellent job on the review by the way. VERY helpful.

  69. #69
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    1,049
    Great job guys and this will prove to be really useful

    the iBlaast! manufacturer is Nightlightning and their website is www.nightlightning.co.nz

    Email Eric for the full details or myself (South African distributor) at NightlightningSA1@gmail.com

  70. #70
    bi-winning
    Reputation: rkj__'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    11,121
    for the shootout.

    This statement really struck my interest:

    "What happened? The leading edge of last year’s crop of LED lights got left behind very quickly. It’s not bright enough and too heavy."
    When under pressure, your level of performance will sink to your level of preparation.

  71. #71
    fc
    fc is offline
    stoked Administrator
    Reputation: fc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 1996
    Posts
    28,033
    BR Lights and Light On is up!

    Also check this out....

    http://www.mtbr.com/2008lights/trail_compare.html

    Does it work?? There's a dual photo version of it too for side by side comparison.

    fc
    IPA will save America

  72. #72
    Nightriding rules SuperModerator
    Reputation: crisillo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    20,807
    Quote Originally Posted by francois
    BR Lights and Light On is up!

    Also check this out....

    http://www.mtbr.com/2008lights/trail_compare.html

    Does it work?? There's a dual photo version of it too for side by side comparison.

    fc

    works great, fc!

    really nice way to summarize the comparison shots!

  73. #73
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    8,921
    The BR lights are really nice, as I have always maintained. The beam width and reach of both lights are good. I didn't realize that they have such a short burntime though- that would not work for me. That really is too bad since two hours is close to the minimum ride time we usually go on at night and I'm not going to dim those like I would if they were brighter. I'd prefer having some buffer time in case an unexpected stop is needed. I think 3 hrs would be my floor as far as burn-time is concerned.

    Also, the beam's downward adjustment does seem very limited. It may not be a big deal but it is something to consider since the light sits so low (on the helmet) to begin with. It could be a bigger problem for guys who sit more upright (me, for example). I would probably need to angle the lighhead/beam a bit lower than others. I have not tried it out but it is something to think about. However, BR Lights does have a pretty good return policy if it doesn't work out. They also look very tough.

    I really like the trail section you have chosen, francois. It goes out pretty far and has enough overhanging branches to catch light as well. It also looks nice enough to make me want to ride each time I see it. Well, I'll be out of the country for five weeks starting tomorrow so I'll see the rest when I get back.

  74. #74
    Lusus Naturae
    Reputation: NoBalance's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    2,859

    Great review - adding some geeked out analysis

    This is a very valuable resource and I've been flipping spreadsheets around with the numbers, preparing for my purchase decision.

    Based on your numbers, the following little table has been generated.
    Note that I had to scrap the old spreadsheet/formulas because there was an obvious problem.

    A big issue is trying to integrate the "weight" factor, so I left it out in the following table. Also removed the "Relative costs" column.

    Now we just have Cost per LuxHour. LuxHour being BurnTime*Lux.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by NoBalance; 01-11-2008 at 02:43 PM.

  75. #75
    fc
    fc is offline
    stoked Administrator
    Reputation: fc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 1996
    Posts
    28,033
    Quote Originally Posted by NoBalance
    This is a very valuable resource and I've been flipping spreadsheets around with the numbers, preparing for my purchase decision.

    Based on your numbers, the following little table has been generated.
    There are 3 columns:
    The first is the Hourly cost of each Lumen per Gram being carried while riding. Multiplied by 1000.
    The second column is the same but per Lux rather than per Lumen. Multiplied by 1000.
    The third column is multiplied by 77000 to generate the actual cost of the best performer in the Lux category. All other lights reflect relative costs compared to that one.
    Awesome!

    send me an email at fcebedo@yahoo.com. I'll email you the excel spreadsheet of all my data. Maybe you can develop these nice summaries for us. I can publish them in the review.

    There's about 5 folks on this board that have been diligently helping me with this review already.

    fc
    IPA will save America

  76. #76
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    8,921
    Let's not lose sight of the non-statistical aspects. Those are much more important for most riders. Things like beam reach, beam width, reliability, weight, design, strength, customer service, etc. should be far more important to a decision than whether one light costs 10% more per Lumen.

  77. #77
    No, that's not phonetic
    Reputation: tscheezy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    14,363
    So far...

    I tossed this one. See the new version updated with more lights below.
    Last edited by tscheezy; 01-15-2008 at 12:29 AM.
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  78. #78
    Nightriding rules SuperModerator
    Reputation: crisillo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    20,807
    nice one, TS!

  79. #79
    No, that's not phonetic
    Reputation: tscheezy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    14,363
    This one's cool too:

    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  80. #80
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    4,523
    "Dinotte 200L, 200L Dual & 600-LI-4C"

    This is the title for one of the reviews, however the 600L is not in the write-up...

    Will you be testing the Jet Lites halogen system?

  81. #81
    fc
    fc is offline
    stoked Administrator
    Reputation: fc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 1996
    Posts
    28,033
    Quote Originally Posted by Wish I Were Riding
    "Dinotte 200L, 200L Dual & 600-LI-4C"

    This is the title for one of the reviews, however the 600L is not in the write-up...

    Will you be testing the Jet Lites halogen system?
    Did you see this page:
    http://reviews.mtbr.com/blog/dinotte...ual-600-li-4c/

    Each manufacturer has their own page. The 600L is near the bottom.

    Jet Lites Halogen? Maybe.

    fc
    IPA will save America

  82. #82
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    4,523
    Quote Originally Posted by francois
    Did you see this page:
    http://reviews.mtbr.com/blog/dinotte...ual-600-li-4c/

    Each manufacturer has their own page. The 600L is near the bottom.

    Jet Lites Halogen? Maybe.

    fc
    I guess I didn't scroll down far enough, but I could have sworn it wasn't there. You still need links for the lights all at the top of the shootout page IMO. Keep up the good work.

    It would be nice to have the Jet halogen. They now have a 25W that does ~700 lumens (but has a runtime of about 2.5 hours). That might not be bad for $395.

  83. #83
    fc
    fc is offline
    stoked Administrator
    Reputation: fc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 1996
    Posts
    28,033
    IPA will save America

  84. #84
    MTB B'dos
    Reputation: LyNx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    22,187
    Uh Francois, only just noticed now there's more reviews with pics up on the initial page, but WOAH what's with the huge file sizes for such small images - one was 500x375 @ 375kb Try using Photoshops' SAVE FOR WEB feature and get those sizes down to more realistic like around <120kb for an image that size. Seriously and I'm not even on dial-up anymore, up to 128kps now.
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  85. #85
    No, that's not phonetic
    Reputation: tscheezy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    14,363
    Updated with the new lights:

    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  86. #86
    Not Smart Enough to Quit
    Reputation: xray_ed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    644
    Looking good! I can't wait for the rollover images.

    I noticed that you did a trail shot of the Ay-Up bar, helmet then bar/helmet combo, but you didn't do a combo shot at the fence. Any chance of getting one?

    Also, is it me or does the Ay-Up combo trail shot look like one of the lights is aimed at the tree?
    The standing eight count & three knockdown rules are in effect on this trail.

    http://compvelo.com/content/

  87. #87
    fc
    fc is offline
    stoked Administrator
    Reputation: fc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 1996
    Posts
    28,033
    Quote Originally Posted by xray_ed
    Looking good! I can't wait for the rollover images.

    I noticed that you did a trail shot of the Ay-Up bar, helmet then bar/helmet combo, but you didn't do a combo shot at the fence. Any chance of getting one?

    Also, is it me or does the Ay-Up combo trail shot look like one of the lights is aimed at the tree?
    I shall try on the Ayup combo.

    Yes, on the trail shots, the aim is not perfect on some of them. it's pretty easy to see on the photos. During the shoot, it's actually really hard to tell where exactly it's aimed.

    Here's a sneak peak at the rollover:
    http://www.mtbr.com/2008lights/trail_compare.html

    fc
    IPA will save America

  88. #88
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    6,212
    Quote Originally Posted by francois
    I shall try on the Ayup combo.

    Yes, on the trail shots, the aim is not perfect on some of them. it's pretty easy to see on the photos. During the shoot, it's actually really hard to tell where exactly it's aimed.

    Here's a sneak peak at the rollover:
    http://www.mtbr.com/2008lights/trail_compare.html

    fc
    Cool. Can you make a version with 2 windows to directly compare 2 products and see the result of both on the screen ?~?

  89. #89
    fc
    fc is offline
    stoked Administrator
    Reputation: fc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 1996
    Posts
    28,033
    Quote Originally Posted by All Mountain
    Cool. Can you make a version with 2 windows to directly compare 2 products and see the result of both on the screen ?~?
    This is a mockup:

    It preloads everything so it takes a minute.

    http://www.mtbr.com/2008lights/dual_trail_compare.html

    fc
    IPA will save America

  90. #90
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    6,212
    Quote Originally Posted by francois
    This is a mockup:

    It preloads everything so it takes a minute.

    http://www.mtbr.com/2008lights/dual_trail_compare.html

    fc

    That's it !~! Excellent

    I think the Dinotte 600 link does not work.

  91. #91
    trail rat
    Reputation: slocaus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    7,830
    Quote Originally Posted by francois
    This is a mockup:

    It preloads everything so it takes a minute.

    http://www.mtbr.com/2008lights/dual_trail_compare.html

    fc
    Gotta watch the mouse pointer going from side to side. I can imagine the attempts after a couple Kilt Lifters!
    "The physician heals, Nature makes well" - real fortune cookie

    CCCMB trail work for trail access - SLO, CA

  92. #92
    No, that's not phonetic
    Reputation: tscheezy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    14,363
    That's groovy.
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  93. #93
    Not Smart Enough to Quit
    Reputation: xray_ed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    644
    Quote Originally Posted by slocaus
    Gotta watch the mouse pointer going from side to side. I can imagine the attempts after a couple Kilt Lifters!
    Yeah, I agree that I's a bit touchy. Maybe you could make it to where you have to click the name of the light to get the beamshot instead of just rolling over it.
    The standing eight count & three knockdown rules are in effect on this trail.

    http://compvelo.com/content/

  94. #94
    dtheo
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    189

    Hope lights

    Francois,
    Thanks for your excellent work on this review.
    It would be great to see the new Hope lights tested if possible when they come out.

    thanks,
    DT

  95. #95
    mtbr member
    Reputation: G-Cracker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    577
    Francois... +1 for excellence in this review. I'm one of those who are curious about CygoLite's products. In fact, I received their DualCross Pro NiMH (compared 30watt) as a Christmas present and tried it out for the first time last night. I am very, very impressed with the light, considering the size of the battery, run-time, and cost. So were my riding companions.

    I'm interested to see how it (or whatever CygoLite sends you) stacks up to the competition.

    Cheers!
    Sonoran Desert Mountain Bicyclists - www.sdmb.org
    Board member ē Web Guru

    ------
    www.tucsonmtb.com

  96. #96
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    86
    It's a pity that the Cateye Triple Shot Pro (HL-EL830RC) could not have been tested as this is more representative of their current product. People have certainly commented on how much better it is than the older model under test and of course the battery is now much more compact. Just a thought. Excellent reviews though...a really good resource.

  97. #97
    fc
    fc is offline
    stoked Administrator
    Reputation: fc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 1996
    Posts
    28,033
    Lupine Betty 12 is up

    http://reviews.mtbr.com/blog/lupine-betty-12/

    Don't be angry cause I didn't give it a 5/5 value rating.

    Wilma review is coming

    fc
    IPA will save America

  98. #98
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    76

    I questioned the 3/5

    Yes the light is fantastic and solidly built, but for that much cash, you can buy several of the other lights and have both bar and helment illumination sources (e.g. several Dinotte 600's).

    $1200 for a light...

  99. #99
    mtbr member
    Reputation: striegel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    38

    Yeah, Whoa!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bullrider
    Yes the light is fantastic and solidly built, but for that much cash, you can buy several of the other lights and have both bar and helmet illumination sources (e.g. several Dinotte 600's).

    $1200 for a light...
    I believe another weakness of putting everything you have into a single light on the bars is that there's no independent system in case of trouble. Even with the very best light on the market, you need to have a backup. So you're not done paying after you've spent for this light.

  100. #100
    mtbr member
    Reputation: MaximusHQ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    662
    For your info, if you don't need the longer run times the Betty 6 can be had for well under $900 if you know where to look. Run time at 1400 lumens is 3+ hours, and much longer on 60% (840 lumens), 40% (560 lumens), 5% (70 lumens), etc. You don't need to pay anywhere near $1200 to get your hands on a Betty.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Members who have read this thread: 0

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •