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  1. #1
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    ... and if we just ... Insane Quad MCE bike light









    Coming along soon

  2. #2
    Off the back...
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    Tease!
    dgsmills.com
    #pinkrobeyyc
    CMBA

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinkrobe
    Tease!

    Be along soon

    just waiting for some pics to upload

  4. #4
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    Just when we thought we had the ultimate light!

    Damn you Troutie

  5. #5
    Light freak
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    click on the photobucket link. Also seen on CPF this orning. Looks good!

  6. #6
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    Insanely big post

    I know you are all fed up with Troutie and his lights And I was not going to post this one at all
    and it was because of a post on CPF which I replied to which let the cat out.

    This has been ongoing for a while now waiting for a hipflex and got put aside while the XPE lights were done , and Deestas sort of developed .

    The Hipflex will be available very soon so it was time to get it ready to recieve it.

    The housing was turned from a 38 mm solid bar for the fins and then the cavity milled out
    I am really supprised that my mill has kept going after all the abuse it has had.




    Then I glued 4 of the CMC holders together with some plastic epoxy these were then used to get the spacing correct for the 4 MCE M bin
    Each MCE was to be wired paralel and then the 4 mce in series.

    I milled 2 grooves to isolate the mce contacts and for the wires to run in



    Then it was mix some AA epoxy and apply to the back of the MCEs and fit them into the housing
    The holders did not press on the MCEs so I had to replace the optics to get some pressure on the leds while the AA set.



    Then a quick test on my Nflex test rig it all lit up great .

    and this is the Hipflex house all ready , they are a bit large 35.6 mm dia
    I have left this oversize and will trim it down whae I see how much space it requires
    I am going to have a remote switch so no space needed just cable entries .




    Next we come to the bar mounts this is using the bars as heat sink too so they were milled to slot in to the fins for a good contact and will be bolted and AA to get good transfer.








    It is just waiting for a Hipflex from George and it will be up and running
    It does seem to be pretty bright running off the Nflex @ 1000ma
    so each led is seeing 250 ma
    and the VF of the lot was 11.67v

    How many lumens for 16 emmitters @ 250ma

    I will be tempted to get a beam shot even @ 250 ma

    Oh The optics Have been chosen because they were the only ones I had left.
    and are
    1 CMC-RS
    and 3 CMC- SS

  7. #7
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    That is "effin' rad"! I can't wait the beamshots!

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by troutie-mtb
    How many lumens for 16 emmitters @ 250ma
    4 Cree MC-E M bin, so min. 430lm * 0,76 (@250ma) * 4 = 1307 lumens min

    Easily beat Lupine Betty, which have only 910 real lumens. Not 1500 as they claim.

  9. #9
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    Very nice write up and pictures.
    Alot more info than the CPF post I saw a few hours ago.
    I had been following the CPF thread for a bit and still have the same question.
    Will lithium ions be able to provide the amp draw at higher light output levels?
    It seems the lithium polymers handle higher draws much better.
    Any estimate of what the amperage draw will be at full power?
    Inquiring minds need to know.

  10. #10
    bi-winning
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    That looks phenomenal. Well done!
    When under pressure, your level of performance will sink to your level of preparation.

  11. #11
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    You wont believe the beam shot

    I had to do it , a quick visit to the woods .

    I only have the Nflex and 18 v drill battery I could use .

    Now that is the WOW factor I was expecting 6 months ago that never happened.

    and this is @ 250 ma per led ( thanks czarny_kruk for the maths )



    Prepare your selves ,



    If you have followed my beamshots then You will know the trees on the right middle distance are 75 Mtres away

    the trees in the far distance are over 150 mtres away and dont show on many beam shots

    untill now


    I was expecting as some one commented on CPF a huge wall of light with no throw .



































  12. #12
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    wow. sweet! This was probably asked before...but how do you get the inside corners to be right angles using mill?

  13. #13
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    t

    .................. ..... Chuffin nora!
    ...Scun.thorpe, UK

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by cytoe
    wow. sweet! This was probably asked before...but how do you get the inside corners to be right angles using mill?

    Cheers Cytoe , this might sound daft but I chopped them out using a small wood chisel
    with the Ledils you only need to square off the top 3 mm

  15. #15
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    holy crap. that is truly amazing. I can't wait to see full amperage!
    Team _________

  16. #16
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    I think it looks quite cool stood up



  17. #17
    A waste of time it is is
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    So your 4 up @ 250 mA has better "useable" light than the triple @ 500mA

    Do you think this is because the triple was so damn bright over such a wide area that the reflected light coming back from trail side objects played tricks on the eyes and blinded you to the distant objects?

    Do you think these things work better, for our application at least, the lower the input current?

    Go on mate, take the triple back out and do the same test at 250mA to see if it changes the "visible" throw you can see

    Oh yeah and as I said yesterday, really nice work

  18. #18
    100% italian mtbiker
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinkrobe
    Tease!
    Hype!

  19. #19
    MUFC - Champions!!!
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    bloody hell Chris thats awesome... kinda makes me depressed looking at my sorry set up now

    cant wait for pics once its fully up to power

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by odtexas
    Very nice write up and pictures.
    Alot more info than the CPF post I saw a few hours ago.
    I had been following the CPF thread for a bit and still have the same question.
    Will lithium ions be able to provide the amp draw at higher light output levels?
    It seems the lithium polymers handle higher draws much better.
    Any estimate of what the amperage draw will be at full power?
    Inquiring minds need to know.

    Thanks for the comments

    I dont know about the power draw but the makita drill batterys are designed for abuse
    fast discharge and charge . and I doubt it will see the full 2800ma much
    only to to upset the betty owners .

    at full power it will be drawing a tad above 2800ma

    and am I right in thinking 3200 lumens ish

  21. #21
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    really impressed w/ the clamp. was that the hardest part?

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by cytoe
    really impressed w/ the clamp. was that the hardest part?

    Cheers
    Yes probably took the most time
    I should have made them as 1 large one and then split into 2
    but I made each seperate so double the tool changes and each process

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by emu26
    So your 4 up @ 250 mA has better "useable" light than the triple @ 500mA

    Do you think this is because the triple was so damn bright over such a wide area that the reflected light coming back from trail side objects played tricks on the eyes and blinded you to the distant objects?

    Do you think these things work better, for our application at least, the lower the input current?

    Go on mate, take the triple back out and do the same test at 250mA to see if it changes the "visible" throw you can see

    Oh yeah and as I said yesterday, really nice work




    Thanks Stu for the thumbs up yesterday and about posting it

    If I can workout which maxflex setting is the same per die I will give it a go

  24. #24
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    wow that looks sweet,hows the samples of the 3 led getting on?

  25. #25
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    The amount of illumination in those back trees is very impressive. I don't think you have had any light that has filled in the back section so well before.

    Seems we have the answer to your early question of which MCE optic is going to be the winner. It is such a shame that these weren't the first optics to come out for the MCE, we probably wouldn't have been quite so unimpressed with the MCE then.

    The brightness when run at 2.8 amps is going to be unholy!

  26. #26
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    very well done.

    wow you have done it again. insanely nice work.
    TEX

  27. #27
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    Very nice bit of kit, get them upto @500-600Ma's if I was you, after then too much heat generated rather that light.

    Think twice as bright at 600ma's WOWSA's.

    Can you make me 1 too pretty pretty please

  28. #28
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    Great build Troutie - very impressive. That beam shot is about what I see with my dual 2x MC-E I ride with - but that is in two separate housings.

    I do suggest monitoring the temperature at the back of the leds when you throw 600 ma into it. That is nearly 36 watts of power and will need to be dumped to ambient quickly to prevent the leds from frying.

    Very nice build


    Bob

  29. #29
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    Hi Yah Mr T yet another impressive light . I'm coming up in a couple of weeks time so we have to get out and do an evenings recce with them

  30. #30
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    Very impressive but I'd hate to be riding towards you. Do you have nyctophobia?

  31. #31
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    I think you can be pretty sure of having the brightest bikelight when you get the hipflex.
    That lamp body looks like a flashlight, really cool design. Haha, that would actually have been a fun mod. Cutting up the side on a flashlight and placing the emitters inside.
    Are those WG emitters? The trees looks so green and nice.

  32. #32
    One Gear
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    Damn! That's a lot of light. You have outdone yourself again. Thanks for all of your effort and sharing it with everyone.

  33. #33
    Lets RIDE!
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    sunglasses at night


  34. #34
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    Wow...yes that is insane! Very very nice! Thanks for all you postings. It's all very informative and entertaining as well I'm gonna have to try the CMC optics.

  35. #35
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    Thanks for all the nice comments there guys
    It has been much fun doing this one as it is for me even better.

    I was shaking with nerves at the prospect of soldering the pins correctly
    but it was really satisfying to watch the solder flow on to the pins . and not nearly as difficult as expected.


    il2mb
    I will do some testing with it on the bike and I have had great results with my ali clamps heatsinking to the bars and if needed could make some fatter ones .


    12.wheels
    Now I have googled it no I really like the dark


    Smudge

    Yes please do but be prepared for a slow ride as not got fit yet .

    gillestugan

    Yes they are WG ones
    I am not sure about having the brightest light
    I am just a serial tinkerer and like pushing the envelope just to see if it can be done.

    achesalot
    Cheers , we would all be interested in your findings if you do .

    I am wondering about something here .

    When I ordered some CMC ss from Bram
    he had been sent some which were for the XPE to cut a long story short
    he sent me the extra ones
    I did think when removed from there holders I could not see any difference
    and I have used these in this build.

    if you look inside the led recess there is a dome shaped lens
    in the mce ones there looks to be 4 sub lenses also these are also evident in the Xpe ones .

  36. #36
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    Ah, I see that you've unleashed the quad on the world Chris....

    Looks really good mate, can't wait to see the hipflex beamshots

  37. #37
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    Troutie,

    By heatsinking the MCE's through the bars so get a very nice hand warmer into the bargain!

    Mark

  38. #38
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    I think it's absolutely useless What's the use in going for a night ride when it look slike day Damn that thing is bright as hell you better have a dimmer on it if you plan on hitting any road sections or riding on multi directional trails. Heck i'm sure my bro could use one of them on his rally car instead of normal rally spot/fogs and save a ton of weight. Any idea on cost of that setup?
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??
    MTB Barbados
    My Phantom pics

  39. #39
    Mmmm Rocks Good
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    full power=flame thrower!

    Quote Originally Posted by riggsy
    bloody hell Chris thats awesome... kinda makes me depressed looking at my sorry set up now

    cant wait for pics once its fully up to power
    Hell, at full power that thing will cause trees and bushes to burst into flames! Gotta love Troutie pushing the limits on lights! Really love his XP-E light too!

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx
    I think it's absolutely useless What's the use in going for a night ride when it look slike day Damn that thing is bright as hell you better have a dimmer on it if you plan on hitting any road sections or riding on multi directional trails. Heck i'm sure my bro could use one of them on his rally car instead of normal rally spot/fogs and save a ton of weight. Any idea on cost of that setup?


    You could say the same about any car / motorbike that is able to do 100mph plus
    The HipFlex driver is the throttle peddle So I can dial in any power level I wish to use.
    Yes it is insane , but so am I .

    cost ??

    4 = MCE M bin WG from cutters £70
    4 cmc optics estimated £16
    1 Hipflex estimated £ 30
    1 switch £ 4
    cable & power socket £ 6
    ali for housing £ 6
    2 clamps for quick release £ 6
    ====
    ---------------------------------------------- £ 138 or us$ 197.00 or Euro 156.77
    li ion battery and charger
    battery space just example
    as got them allready £ 119 $ 170
    ----------------------------------------------
    ------------------------------------------------ £ 257 $ 367
    pleasure of making and using = priceless

    3000 lumens max 11.67 lumens per £1






    nearest hi power light Lupine betty 14 £ 775 = $ 1108

    1500 lumens = 1.93 lumens per £1




    peteoheat
    nice idea but so much mass and area they stay cold
    Last edited by troutie-mtb; 02-01-2009 at 08:05 AM.

  41. #41
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    ahh nice! thats the same design as the build i'm still under taking
    Very nice!

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by troutie-mtb
    pleasure of making and using = priceless
    How very spooky! I was planning a similar post to show the cost of my little light, but I was going to say "Heatsink by Troutie: priceless"

    I would also say that watching your projects is priceless, Long may you continue to innovate and provide much pleasure to your readers. Well done, Chris.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkUG
    ahh nice! thats the same design as the build i'm still under taking
    Very nice!

    Thanks Skug
    get some piccys up we like pics


    Neil thanks also . but there may not be much out of the Trout pool
    as I have not worked for 3 weeks and no work on the horizon so no cash for projects.

  44. #44
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    Well this could be an opportunity to set shop and start your own business: Trout Lights.

    I used to hang around CPF (still do), but thanks mostly to you mister Troutie, I find myself coming to MTBR more and more often (even though you also post on CPF).
    When you think that life is though, keep a positive attitude : remember that it is short ;-)

  45. #45
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    First of, fantastic light! This is probably the first light that you can get more than usable illumination with above 100lm/W efficiency. If I am not mistaken, when driven at about 100mA it should produce about 600lm with only 5W!

    What I would like to know is why does nobody use cooling fans when constructing high power led lights? The lights could be even more compact, possibly without any outside cooling fins (all the fins could be in an internal 'air tunnel'). While riding the bike I don't think the added noise would be noticeable and the additional current draw is completely insignificant when compared to the leds. It could even make the construction extremely cheep and simple as you could possibly use a low-cost square CPU cooler with very little modification (CPU coolers have to be able to dissipate over 60W which should be plenty for a few MC-E emitters).
    Anyway... would like to hear your thoughts.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by dsvilko
    First of, fantastic light! This is probably the first light that you can get more than usable illumination with above 100lm/W efficiency. If I am not mistaken, when driven at about 100mA it should produce about 600lm with only 5W!

    What I would like to know is why does nobody use cooling fans when constructing high power led lights? The lights could be even more compact, possibly without any outside cooling fins (all the fins could be in an internal 'air tunnel'). While riding the bike I don't think the added noise would be noticeable and the additional current draw is completely insignificant when compared to the leds. It could even make the construction extremely cheep and simple as you could possibly use a low-cost square CPU cooler with very little modification (CPU coolers have to be able to dissipate over 60W which should be plenty for a few MC-E emitters).
    Anyway... would like to hear your thoughts.



    Thank You Dsvilko

    My Thoughts on fan cooling yes it would work well but here in the UK we have to ride lots in the rain and for the fan cooling to work the light would need inlet and exhaust ports
    which would also let in the rain.

    I dont think a light like mine could get any simpler and I could see a way to put a fan in and have it nearly waterproof but it is adding complexity to a pretty minimalist design.

    It is a thought for a future project for my brother who is building a motorcycle Trike
    and wants some very bright led lights for it


    Though I am probably sailing very close to the limits with this one and I wont know that for a while untill I get a Hipflex and can push them a bit.

    I can get a probe right down close to the leds to about 2 mm from the dies and on my desk @ 250ma per die they slowly warm up the housing and stabilise at 33c and hold that temp I have not yet tried on the bike bars yet .or with a desk fan blowing.


    Calina , Thanks also for the kind words .
    and nice idea , who knows sell a few housings and it may take off .

    The major problem is the cheap P7 / MCE torches from china which has made the DIY seem a bit expensive .
    and the fact that GB plc is on its arse and the £ is worthless .

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by troutie-mtb
    Thanks also for the kind words .
    and nice idea , who knows sell a few housings and it may take off .

    The major problem is the cheap P7 / MCE torches from china which has made the DIY seem a bit expensive .
    and the fact that GB plc is on its arse and the £ is worthless .
    Not everybody wants one or those cheap chinese lights. As far as I know quite a few still buy expensive lights and your lights are much better than theirs anyway.

    Take the bad exchange rate as an opportunity. If the Pound is low, this makes your lights more attractive to foreign buyers. Anyway, you should price your lights (in usd) as if the Pound was still at a more favourable exchange rate and convert that price to your final price in Pounds. . It would be bad business practice to price them at such a rate that you would have to readjust their value every time there is a move in the exchange rate.
    Last edited by Calina; 01-30-2009 at 09:36 PM.
    When you think that life is though, keep a positive attitude : remember that it is short ;-)

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by dsvilko
    What I would like to know is why does nobody use cooling fans when constructing high power led lights?
    I have been thinking of this a lot lately, and started sketching on a design with a 40x40x10 mm 12V fan for a PC. I do think the noise would be annoying so I'm looking into how to control the fan speed based on temperature of the housing. The easy way is connecting the fan in parallel to the LEDs and let it run at the same voltage as the driver is feeding the MC-Es.This would increase fan speed as the leds are driven harder, but only slightly because of the nature of leds (small increase of Vf-> large increase of current).

    The best thing would be a circuit that turned on the fan, when the housing temperature reached a preset limit..Are there any electronic guru's out there?

    Geir

  49. #49
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    sorry i couldn`t resist
    ...Scun.thorpe, UK

  50. #50
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    .... can`t wait till you get the Hipflex,.. 2.8A on strobe mode! now that makes me chuckle.

    .......... troutie quote "my brother who is building a motorcycle Trike"
    Hey troutie, does he live nearby? is he a member of your local club? Silsden sewer rats MCC...
    ................Rally pics
    they have a great "Get Ratted" rally every year up the road on Addingham moorside, i never miss it!
    and, re your video clips, i know you got the cam from www.rfconcepts.co.uk but what do you use as the recording device?

    .......... Cheers
    ...Scun.thorpe, UK

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