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Input for bicycle light User Interface

15K views 100 replies 18 participants last post by  mtbkndad 
#1 · (Edited)
Howdy light fans! I'm working with George of TaskLED to come up with a great UI (User Interface - hey, some folks don't know what it means!) for the bFlex LED driver board. We already have two complete UIs on the board (selectable through the menu) - the 'F' mode is optimized for fixed lighting (lanterns, automotive, home) and the 'P' mode is for portable lighting (flashlights). The 'B' mode of bFlex will be specific to bicycle needs. Now is your chance to be heard!

Everything that the uController can do is controlled by a single momentary button that can be mounted remotely, or stay on the board. There are two ways to enter info via that button. A Click and a Press. Two distinct actions, one that releases the button immediately after use, and the other that holds the button down for a moment until the effect is achieved. George and I have spent countless hours, and have refined after many months and even years how the UIF and UIP function with that single button. I've learned quite a bit in this process, and would also like some fresh ideas from folks who aren't as mired in the details as I can get.

My basic outline for the UI so far is that it should have:
High (Level will always be settable in the menu)
Low (Maybe settable, or maybe just a consistent percentage of high, or one low level regardless of High setting)
Strobe. (should this be settable? What are some of the best choices for frequency and "on" duration? We can certainly make this settable in the menu or directly from the UI. Is it something you'd want to change often, or something you'd set once, and leave it alone?)

Let's have your input! There are no promises that your ideas will be incorporated, but I can guarantee that it'll help shape the final product. I have plenty of ideas on how to incorporate some of this, but would like to use you guys as a "clean slate" before putting my ideas up here.

Let me be very clear here that I do not do the coding or the circuit design. That's all George, and he stamps his name on the boards to prove it! :) Plus he's reading this, so I can't secretly take more than my share of credit. My job is to do all the really hard thinking. :) I try to figure out what the user will want, and how to make it the most practical to use. Then George translates it into code, and we both program a board and test for hours. Some days we'll go through countless versions of code and too many hundreds of clicks. Eventually we get it right... and that's the process I'd like to start all over again with this new UIB. So bring it on.

And one final note: Who can get some great housings made? We can by the LEDs, we can create and sell the circuit and code - but we have no way of finding that perfect housing that easily and firmly attaches to a bike. Something that could hold 2-3 LEDs, have a magnetic switch, can house a reasonably-sized Li-Ion battery, and has a great bar mount would be the bee's knees. I'd love to discuss that aspect as well, because once we get this UIB done, I'll be sitting here wondering what the hell to do with it!

Ok, NOW bring it on.
 
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#77 ·
jimgskoop said:
Chomping at the bit here...just ordered my Crees and battery, I just need a driver now (nFlex or bFlex).
We're literally dotting the I's and Crossing the T's now. We plan on one final testing of the pre-release version, and then we'll release it to the wilds. George is madly trying to build up a bit of stock so he can fulfill orders. He doesn't do pre-orders, so please be patient. He's gotten several emails already. What's up? You guys don't trust me? When it is released, I'll post it here.
 
#78 ·
When will the new UI be implemented? If I order the board now, should I specify that I would like the Bicycle UI on there, or will it already be shipping that way?

Or should I just be patient and be thankful that you and George are making a sweet product and wait for you to tell us when it is available...?
 
#80 ·
Welcome to MTBR Movemint!

If you have a more thorough read of this thread you will notice that the production boards currently have a total of two UI routines installed. This thread has followed the development of a third, bicycle specific UI which is close to completion but is still in development. This UI will be available along with the other two UI's on the one board, allowing the user to select which UI they would like to use.

As Darell mentions, he will post here when the bicycle UI is released. As George does not do pre-orders it would probably be best not to contact him unless absolutely necessary. I'm sure replying to excessive amounts of unnecessary emails would take quite a bit of time out of his day. ;)

Dave.
 
#82 ·
Just doing a fine-tune on the manual (already slightly different from what I posted above) and realize that I've done a bit on how to enter the menu from UIB as well. Slightly different from the other UIs. Here is that part.

To access the Menu in UIB, begin with the light in Emergency Low Mode (Sec 7.3), and click the switch rapidly three times, no more than 0.3 seconds apart. The LED will blink with each click, then flash once, then light up dim. The Menu Mode is now active and you can select the Menu you wish to access.
 
#83 · (Edited)
And one more bit. My favorite bit, actually. I put a summary of the UIs and menu options on one page - it will be near the front of the manual for quick reference.

4 Overview of the User Interfaces (UIs) and the Control Menu

4.1 Fixed (UIF)
Intended for lanterns, household and automotive lighting. Eight brightness levels. Ability to turn on at lowest setting, and quickly change to highest setting without scrolling. Press while on to scroll all levels. Click turns on, and click turns off.

4.2 Portable (UIP)
Intended for hand-held torches. Five brightness levels. Ability to turn on at lowest setting. Ability to switch directly to high setting from any other level. Press while off to scroll all levels. Click turns on, and click turns off.

4.3 Bicycle (UIB)
Intended for bicycle lighting. Separate modes for constant and strobe. User-configurable quantity and brightness of "constant on" levels. Three scrollable levels for strobe. Emergency low mode accessible from off. Click scrolls chosen levels (constant or strobe). Click turns on and press turns off.

4.4 Menu features/choices of all UIs
Bold is factory default.

0. Electronic Lockout (enable)
1. Auto Sleep (disable, 15min, 30min, 1hr, 2hr, 4hr, 8hr)
2. Force Level (disable or choose level for initial on. Not available in UIB)
3. Power On (enable/disable "on" function when power is applied)
4. Auto Lock (enable/disable automatic electronic lockout after each use)
5. Current Drive level (350ma, 500mA 750mA, 1000mA - all intermediate brightness levels scale to this max level)
6. V Warn (protect rechargeable batteries by setting a warning flag at a chosen Voltage level. Enter in form xy.z) [00.0 - disable]
7. V Stat (choice of how the light warns that V Warn level has been reached. One flash per 1, 5, 10, 30, 60 seconds, or no flash/stat pin only)
8. UIB Const Level (choose quantity and brightness of levels in UIB constant mode) [two levels, L3 and L5]
9. UI selector (UIF, UIP, UIB)
10. Reset (menu selections reset to factory defaults for all UIs)
 
#85 ·
Thanks for the answer Low_Ryder. It's a shame that in text based environments inflection can not be heard. The answer you left me seemed a bit harsh and chastising. Telling me not to bother people and to be more thorough in my reading. Probably just me taking it the wrong way.

I have talked to George about other products in the past. I was wondering if the board could be reprogrammed in the future/user upgradeable, etc. I should have been more specific and just asked that.

A simple answer to my question without belittlement would have been preferred, but again, it is probably just me misinterpreting your inflection.
 
#86 ·
Sorry Movemint it wasn’t intentional! Perhaps I should have worded things a little better then I did. I have come across a little harsh in my posts in the past too, I need to use a few more emoticons or think things through before posting! Either that or I need a good swift kick! :D :p

I was just trying to let you know that most of your questions had been covered in this thread. ;)

While these boards aren’t really user upgradeable, they do have the ability to be reprogrammed if future compatible UI routines are released.

Cheers, Dave.
 
#87 · (Edited)
Right again! But just to be totally clear, I'll answer for myself this time.

When will the new UI be implemented? If I order the board now, should I specify that I would like the Bicycle UI on there, or will it already be shipping that way?
The new UI will be implemented as soon as we're done creating it. If you order the board now, you cannot specify the UIB, because it does not yet exist in its final form. When the UIB is ready for release, ALL of the bFlex boards will include it, so no specification will be needed. They will still default to UIF, but UIB will be on board.

Or should I just be patient and be thankful that you and George are making a sweet product and wait for you to tell us when it is available...?
This would be the best choice. Especially that genuflection part. :)

Please note: I don't intend for any of this to sound harsh or snotty. The problem is, I AM harsh and snotty, so sometimes my meaning is misinterpreted. ;)
 
#88 ·
Sweet! :thumbsup:

Thanks for the replys from everyone. I did not mean to come across as harsh either. The specifics of the boards and electronics are something I am just learning about. I have been doing a ton of research on electronics, LEDs, batteries, etc. but it is all a bit new to me. I thought I had somewhat of a valid question and in turn felt like the response was harsh.

Thanks for the help, I know everyone is just looking out for each other. No animosity toward anyone on this board. :D

Can't wait to get a board from George, so I can go on the weekly night rides! ;)

...sorry for the smiley overkill...
 
#92 · (Edited)
Hi Darrel,

I have been a mtbr member for some time but never posted and had to re-register a couple months ago .

What I would like in a UI is simple.
First I will say the mtb light I actually use these days is a 4 by 3 watt LED modified Maglite head made by Elektrolumens and further modified by Modamag on CPF.
It has a simple toggle

Right Low
Center Off
Left high

This replaced my Planet Bike Alias bike light for my bike. That is now my loaner light setup. It has a conventional

Single button that I always hated cylcing through to go from low back to high.

Here is what I would like in a single button UI

First a stepped toggle or rocker switch instead of a single button.
Single button and simple and practical just do not seem to go together when actually riding on a trail.

Since toggles can break in crashes a rocker switch would be better.
Here is my ideal single stepped rocker switch UI.


SOS - Strobe - Off - High - Low

This way I can cycle directly back and forth from High to Low to High as needed.
Strobe would be great as a visibility light when somebody needs to ride on lit streets since strobes draw more attention then a solid light. SOS would be a very long lasting emergency mode just in case something bad happens when riding solo at night.

Take Care,
mtbkndad
 
#93 ·
mtbkndad said:
Hi Darrel,

I have been a mtbr member for some time but never posted and had to re-register a couple months ago .

What I would like in a UI is simple.
First I will say the mtb light I actually use these days is a 4 by 3 watt LED modified Maglite head made by Elektrolumens and further modified by Modamag on CPF.
It has a simple toggle

Right Low
Center Off
Left high

This replaced my Planet Bike Alias bike light for my bike. That is now my loaner light setup. It has a conventional

Single button toggle that I always hated cylcing through to go from low back to high.

Here is what I would like in a single button UI

First a stepped toggle instead of a single button.
Single button and simple and practical just do not seem to go together when actually riding on a trail.

Here is my dream single stepped toggle UI.

SOS - Strobe - Off - High - Low

This way I can cycle directly back and forth from High to Low to High as needed.

Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:
But with the current UIB you can set only 2 levels (high and low) and change from one to another with a sigle click, the ON thing is also a click and the OFF option a press... so it's as easy to use as a stepped toggle...

The problem of a stepped toggle here is that the microcontroller only acepts clicks (it only has one input line).

I think that the way to go in order to make what you want, is to design a physical interface (the stepped toggle with its own electronics) connected to the push button terminals of the bFlex. This way could make the stepped toggle to send the correct "clicks" or "press" to the bFlex in order to make automaticaly what you want, but I think that this isn't necesary at all with the bFlex UIB.

What will be fine is the SOS mode inside the strobe levels of the UIB...

;)
 
#94 ·
Drakon said:
But with the current UIB you can set only 2 levels (high and low) and change from one to another with a sigle click, the ON thing is also a click and the OFF option a press... so it's as easy to use as a stepped toggle...

The problem of a stepped toggle here is that the microcontroller only acepts clicks (it only has one input line).

I think that the way to go in order to make what you want, is to design a physical interface (the stepped toggle with its own electronics) connected to the push button terminals of the bFlex. This way could make the stepped toggle to send the correct "clicks" or "press" to the bFlex in order to make automaticaly what you want, but I think that this isn't necesary at all with the bFlex UIB.

What will be fine is the SOS mode inside the strobe levels of the UIB...

;)
Yes, I did not say the setup being discussed in this thread could necessarily do what I want.
I am just giving food for thought.
I would like to have ALL of those functions at my disposal without having to "set" for a specific mode.

My current bike light suits my needs fine so in reality all I need is-

High - off - Low.

I am actually more interested in the beam characteristics and battery run time of any given light then the UI. I spent some time trying different combinations of optics and reflectors to get the beam I wanted. I could live with an okay UI and a useable amount of light with a great beam pattern. I could have the best UI available, but if the beam characteristics are wrong I would not use the light.
I know that is not the focus of this thread. For the sake of the thread I would love to, at some point, see somebody make a rocker setup that goes

SOS - Strobe - Off - High - Low

Take Care,
mtbkndad
 
#95 ·
#96 ·
mtbkndad -

I do appreciate your input on this, and see advatages in a rocker as you demonstrate. And as others have pointed out, if you want hi/lo/off - we have that in spades with this offering.

One of my design goals was to keep the user from NEVER stumbling into strobe unless they really wanted it. And while your solution achieves that, it unfortunately requires a switching situation that we don't have available to us currently. A linear UI also has the issue of "accidental off" which seems to be a major show-stopper for most here.

And a final note on SOS... I've simply never found the utility. If you want attention, just make it strobe. If you are bleeding out on the roadway, the chances that you'll find/use/remember where SOS is are slim... and the chances that anybody looking for you will find SOS more "urgent" than strobe are slimmer. And it is a mode that the user wouldn't use 99.9999999% of the time, unless he does so accidentally. I've been steeped in flashlight UIs for a while, and everybody just LOVES including the SOS mode. I just don't get it - and it gets in my way.
 
#97 ·
mtbkndad said:
I could have the best UI available, but if the beam characteristics are wrong I would not use the light.
Oh, and to add... this is the beauty of this circuit. You get to choose what light it goes in. In that way you get the beam you want AND the best UI out there - if I may be so humble. ;)

Now I'm gonna go check on linear switching and see if at some future time we can have that as an option.
 
#99 ·
darelldd said:
mtbkndad -

I do appreciate your input on this, and see advatages in a rocker as you demonstrate. And as others have pointed out, if you want hi/lo/off - we have that in spades with this offering.

One of my design goals was to keep the user from NEVER stumbling into strobe unless they really wanted it. And while your solution achieves that, it unfortunately requires a switching situation that we don't have available to us currently. A linear UI also has the issue of "accidental off" which seems to be a major show-stopper for most here.

And a final note on SOS... I've simply never found the utility. If you want attention, just make it strobe. If you are bleeding out on the roadway, the chances that you'll find/use/remember where SOS is are slim... and the chances that anybody looking for you will find SOS more "urgent" than strobe are slimmer. And it is a mode that the user wouldn't use 99.9999999% of the time, unless he does so accidentally. I've been steeped in flashlight UIs for a while, and everybody just LOVES including the SOS mode. I just don't get it - and it gets in my way.
I do like the UI you designed and may actually build something for myself with it instead of having others do that for me for a change.

Accidental off is very bad, I agree. With a setup like I suggested for future consideration accidental off would be difficult to achieve. That is also why I like the toggle that Modamag put into my Elektrolumens Quad Mod bike light. I can go from low to high to low with the light never going off since it switches so fast. With just a toggle and High - off - low it is actually harder to turn it off then to high or low.

Regarding SOS, virtually All of my riding is in Southern California mountains on single track and fire roads that have very unforgiving terrain. Most of my night riding is done solo. The idea of SOS mode is that if I am on a long solo ride and tumble off a single track or fire road the SOS mode would get more run time then a straight strobe. Plus most people recognize the SOS signal even when they do not know morse code.

I agree that on a highway straight strobe is a is just advantageous as SOS. I am thinking more in terms of being in a potentially bad situation and not knowing how long the blinking will be needed. In a case like that fairly slow SOS signal could save precious battery life and would also be noticeable to people who may be searching for the person that is stranded.

Once again, I have been really itching to make something myself and this product you have created is probably going to get me to do that when I get time. :thumbsup:

Take Care,
mtbkndad :yesnod:
 
#100 ·
While definitely interesting, I’ve seen similar SOS style threads go on for months on other forums in the past. Personal preference and varied applications make it a very hard topic to discuss! :D

While I recognise your need for an SOS, I do tend to follow Darrell’s thoughts particularly in terms of being noticed and getting in the way of normal operation. Ignoring the SOS concept for a moment, as far as extended run time is concerned the adjustable nature of this UI means that with a “typical” battery / bFlex / emitter setup, the “Emergency Low” (brightness level adjustable) or “Strobe” (brightness preset and can’t be changed) modes will provide days of light.

Also in a situation where I wanted to conserve battery life, I think a strobe or SOS would drive me crazy, particularly if the light was being used to light a work area or whatever.

Cheers. Dave.
 
#101 · (Edited)
Low_Rider said:
While definitely interesting, I've seen similar SOS style threads go on for months on other forums in the past. Personal preference and varied applications make it a very hard topic to discuss! :D

While I recognise your need for an SOS, I do tend to follow Darrell's thoughts particularly in terms of being noticed and getting in the way of normal operation. Ignoring the SOS concept for a moment, as far as extended run time is concerned the adjustable nature of this UI means that with a "typical" battery / bFlex / emitter setup, the "Emergency Low" (brightness level adjustable) or "Strobe" (brightness preset and can't be changed) modes will provide days of light.

Also in a situation where I wanted to conserve battery life, I think a strobe or SOS would drive me crazy, particularly if the light was being used to light a work area or whatever.

Cheers. Dave.
SOS or a programed slow blink would not matter much to me. I am thinking of the very rare circumstance, actually hopefully NEVER, where I could be hurt bad enough to not be able to get out from where I am but still able to switch the light to a very energy saving blinking mode. The slightly irregular blinking pattern of SOS may be helpful in getting attention. For that matter a random sequencing of say 2 or 3 different blink durations and pauses could work too. I also believe in overkill and when I am riding alone at night I have my bikelight and at least two other bright light sources plus extra batteries.

The only real point I was making before is that the blinking modes that work well for visiblity on the roads are significantly faster and more power consuming then I would want if I am lying at the bottom of a hill waiting for assistance. The last thing I would want is to dim the signal in order to save battery life. I also recognize that there could be the very real circumstance where I have already used much of the battery life while riding and then have an accident. In this circumstance a low battery drain but bright SOS or random blink would be very valuable. While I have done no research on the subject I personally think the random blink would attract attention faster. Only without tests to demonstrate this it is just my thinking and SOS is something people associate with "emergency mode" on a device.

I never ride solo, day or night, without giving my complete ride intinerary to my wife so the likelyhood of needing the blinking mode for days would be very unlikely.

As I mentioned before, I do like the bFlex and will possibly actually use it once I get some other projects I have been working on finished.
Non mtbr products.

Take Care,
mtbkndad :yesnod:
 
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