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  1. #1
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    Honey I Shrunk the Tripple XM-L

    Instead of design something new, I shrunk my tripple XML housing to accomodate a Ledil LXM RS, optic U2 bin XM-L and a Lflex..
    I boiled it for 31 days and manged to get it small enough for a helmet light
    A few pics
    Main Body

    Front Bezel

    Comparison with the tripple


    77grams excluding a remote switch

    Ledil LXM RS optic

    Rear end, Lumberg M8 and M6 gland for remote switch


    Happy New Year...
    Last edited by Goldigger; 12-31-2011 at 06:51 PM.

  2. #2
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    I knew you were up to something as you were a little too quiet. Lovely job Jay, looks fantastic. Off to the ano tank now I guess for a splash of colour. The things you can do with a rotary table and a mill

    I am impressed you are getting anything done with the new edition. Must have excellent time management

    I got 3 lflex board the other day to play with so looks like we are all thinking along similar lines .

  3. #3
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    Cheers Brad,
    I wish i had the energy tonight to put it through the ano tank.. Broken sleep from the little man keeping us awake at night is zapping me!
    When i do have any spare time i cant be bothered to do anything, as im knackered...I've had to mill another tripple housing, so while i had the rotary table set up i milled the tripple and this mini version..


    Can't make my mind up what color i ahould ano this light, my helmet is blue so maybe it should be blue..

    Still need to knock up a mount and remote switch, they will both be out of delrin...

  4. #4
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    Smile

    Nice machine work!

  5. #5
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    Nice work! Perfectly matching in appearance, going to be interesting to hear how you like its output paired with the tripple.
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  6. #6
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    Will 2 18650 in parrallel be able to provide enough current to the lflex, to run a single xm-l @3amps?

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldigger View Post
    Will 2 18650 in parrallel be able to provide enough current to the lflex, to run a single xm-l @3amps?
    Yes, they should have no problem. How long is your power cable? Small gauge cable at 3A can cause a fair bit of voltage drop. Beautiful light BTW.

  8. #8
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    Aww, GD's made another cute li'l baby

  9. #9
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    I love that Industrial look.
    Those cable connecters look great too.
    Good job.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vancbiker View Post
    Yes, they should have no problem. How long is your power cable? Small gauge cable at 3A can cause a fair bit of voltage drop. Beautiful light BTW.
    I checked the tech docs for the lumberg m8 connectors I use, but there's no mention of the guage wire used...just rated at 4 amps..ill have a stab at 22/24 gauge wire.

    How long would you say is a good length to run the cable at?
    I planned to put the battery pack in the top of my camel back.

    Thanks..

    I'll hopefully get it Anodised this weekend, for some reason my m5 taps say bottom on the little boxes, but there all taper!
    So had to order another set so i can tap the hole properly for the mount..

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldigger View Post
    I checked the tech docs for the lumberg m8 connectors I use, but there's no mention of the guage wire used...just rated at 4 amps..ill have a stab at 22/24 gauge wire.

    How long would you say is a good length to run the cable at?
    I planned to put the battery pack in the top of my camel back.

    Thanks..

    I'll hopefully get it Anodised this weekend, for some reason my m5 taps say bottom on the little boxes, but there all taper!
    So had to order another set so i can tap the hole properly for the mount..
    With such a tiny light, why don't you mount the batteries on the back of your helmet. You can keep the cable runs short this way. I found that it's well balanced so the weight's not a big issue.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldigger View Post
    Will 2 18650 in parrallel be able to provide enough current to the lflex, to run a single xm-l @3amps?
    as long as you use decent Japanese cells (Panasonic, Sanyo etc), it should be fine. Avoid cheap Chinese *fire cells though, they can't provide the current.

    I agree with Ofroad'bent - attach the battery to the back of your helmet. It'll weigh ~150g after waterproofing, which should balance out the light+mount at the front. I put mine on the webbing at the back, although I'd love to make some kind of battery quick release as I'm always swapping between my commuter light and my mtb light, both of which have the battery on the back. I've ridden with a helmet light for 10+ years and not having the battery in the camelbak is priceless, well worth the slight extra weight up top.

    oh, beautiful looking light too

  13. #13
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    Voltage drop calculator here.

    OEM Power Supplies - Voltage Drop Calculator

    I set my helmet cable length based on my battery being in my jersey pocket. It ends up being around 3.5 feet.

  14. #14
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    OfRoad & Matt do you have any pics of your helmet light setups?
    I thought of putting the batteries on the rear...i might make a minimal housing for two 18650's out of some delrin, hopefully it wont weigh to much but will be water tight..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vancbiker View Post
    Voltage drop calculator here.

    OEM Power Supplies - Voltage Drop Calculator

    I set my helmet cable length based on my battery being in my jersey pocket. It ends up being around 3.5 feet.
    Great calculator.

    The biggest issue with the M8 connectors is that most of the only have a conductor size of 0.25mm≤ (24awg) so the max current capacity is only 3-4 amps so voltage drop is going to be around the 0.2-0.3volts if the cable is around 3 feet. Mount the battery on the helmet and drop is only getting 0.03v drop.
    Last edited by brad72; 01-03-2012 at 04:32 PM. Reason: retarded typing

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by brad72 View Post
    Great calculator.

    The biggest issue with the M8 connectors is that most of the only have a conductor size of 0.25mm≤ (24awg) so the max current capacity is only 3-4 amps so voltage drop is going to be around the 0.2-0.3volts if the cable is around 3 feet. Mount the battery on the helmet and drop is only getting 0.3v drop.
    Correct me if im wrong but 0.2-0.3volts doesnt sound like anything to worry about?

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldigger View Post
    OfRoad & Matt do you have any pics of your helmet light setups?
    I thought of putting the batteries on the rear...i might make a minimal housing for two 18650's out of some delrin, hopefully it wont weigh to much but will be water tight..
    Hi Jay. I use the industrial 3M dual lock to mount my lights and batteries. This way if I hit a big branch the light and battery will get ripped off and not my head. The velcro is plastic, not fabric so it takes a lot of force to break it free.

    In the picture below you can just see a 14,8v pack on the back of the helmet. It was held on with a cable tie through the heatshrink but now I use the dual lock. Weight wise I cannot tell is is there but since you are going to use only 2 cells if will not even be noticeable.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldigger View Post
    Correct me if im wrong but 0.2-0.3volts doesnt sound like anything to worry about?
    I don't see a real problem but with the lflex since you are driving 1 led to 1 cell, adding your voltage drop the lflex might only be getting 3.9v. At 3A current the xml draws 3.5 volts so it will not stay in regulation when the li-ion cell gets down to it's nominal voltage of 3.7 volts (lflex getting 3.3v) ........it think

    But put the pack on your helmet and voltage drop is only 0.03v so no problem at all (note typing error in post above from retarded typing angers)

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldigger View Post
    Correct me if im wrong but 0.2-0.3volts doesnt sound like anything to worry about?
    It's not the end of the world for sure, but it is .75W of energy lost to the light. That is ~4% of your 2P battery's capacity.

  20. #20
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    Dont forget in the grand scheme of things that the Lflex is a linear driver and as such is burning off excess volts as heat anyways and most efficient when close to the leds voltage


    Nice mini me light there Jay

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldigger View Post
    OfRoad & Matt do you have any pics of your helmet light setups?
    I thought of putting the batteries on the rear...i might make a minimal housing for two 18650's out of some delrin, hopefully it wont weigh to much but will be water tight..
    Here's my set-up. The batteries are wrapped in shrink-wrap, the ends sealed with plasti-dip, so they're 100% waterproof. I bonded some velcro to the battery packs, and they are secured to the helmet with a stretchy velcro strap that came with a Planet Bike flasher.

    The light mount is secured with 3M Dual-lock to the helmet, and also with a loop of Velcro One-wrap around it.



    I leave this on the helmet all the time this season, and use my spare helmet for the rare daytime ride.

  22. #22
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    I'll take a pic of both my commuter set up and my mtb set up tomorrow before my night ride, although it looks a lot like brad's, with the battery vertically mounted on the back vents. A 2 cell I barely notice and the 3 cell is liveable (and easily worth not having the hassle of being tied to my camelbak).

  23. #23
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    Scar has a nice simple set-up:


    My green helmet is fairly rounded, so the battery didn't sit well vertically.

  24. #24
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    Very nice looking light!


    Yep, mounting the battery on the back of thel helmet is the way to go!

    I can't believe it has been over 4 years now, but I would never go back. Actually, I think I was the very first one to do it. At the time, everyone was trying to out build each other with monster lights and I went the exact opposite direction, small and lightweight.

    Here is the link to the original thread - http://forums.mtbr.com/apparel-prote...ed-354430.html Funny, not too many of the current regulars around back then, noticed msxtr was around back then

    Industrial Strength Velcro is all I use




    You should have no problems running a 2P battery configuration. I have been running a 2S2P configuration for my 4x XM-L bar light (2S2P) for quite a while now and have not seen any problems


    Thanks Ofroad'bent, just saw your post as I was previewing mine


    ****

  25. #25
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    I have a ton of these velcro cable ties at home, they should be strong enough at holding everything on the helmet..


    Cheers for the pics of your setups, helps me to see where your placing everything

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldigger View Post
    I have a ton of these velcro cable ties at home, they should be strong enough at holding everything on the helmet..


    Cheers for the pics of your setups, helps me to see where your placing everything
    That's basically what I'm using around the base of my light mount. The Dual Lock goes under the mount and on the helmet, then this stuff goes over the mount and around the helmet for extra security.

    Here's a pic of the other side if it helps.

  27. #27
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    I was tempted to try one of this 1S 3.7v lipo's but think they may be a bit on the long side at 128mm.
    But could be an easy battery to waterproof..plus there only $9
    HobbyKing R/C Hobby Store : Turnigy 5000mAh 1S 20C Lipoly (Single Cell)
    Spec.
    Minimum Capacity: 5000mAh
    Configuration: 1S / 3.7v / 1Cell
    Constant Discharge: 20C
    Cell Weight: 114g
    Cell Size: 128 x 42 x 10mm

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldigger View Post
    I was tempted to try one of this 1S 3.7v lipo's but think they may be a bit on the long side at 128mm.
    But could be an easy battery to waterproof..plus there only $9
    HobbyKing R/C Hobby Store : Turnigy 5000mAh 1S 20C Lipoly (Single Cell)
    Spec.
    Minimum Capacity: 5000mAh
    Configuration: 1S / 3.7v / 1Cell
    Constant Discharge: 20C
    Cell Weight: 114g
    Cell Size: 128 x 42 x 10mm
    Personally I'd want to see that in some kind of hard case to protect it from getting bent or punctured. Lipo packs get especially dangerous when damaged and the last thing you want within inches of your head is an angry Lipo pack!

    How about either of these?

    HobbyKing R/C Hobby Store : ZIPPY Flightmax 6200mah 1S 30C Hardcase Car Lipoly

    HobbyKing R/C Hobby Store : Turnigy nano-tech 5000mah 1S2P 50~100C Hardcase Lipo Pack

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwarwick View Post
    Personally I'd want to see that in some kind of hard case to protect it from getting bent or punctured. Lipo packs get especially dangerous when damaged and the last thing you want within inches of your head is an angry Lipo pack!

    How about either of these?

    HobbyKing R/C Hobby Store : ZIPPY Flightmax 6200mah 1S 30C Hardcase Car Lipoly

    HobbyKing R/C Hobby Store : Turnigy nano-tech 5000mah 1S2P 50~100C Hardcase Lipo Pack
    +1 for what kwarwick said. A punctured lipo on the back of the helmet would not be the best, although I imagine it could be quite spectacular if a fireball ensued. I am sure it would go viral on youtube if you were lucky enough to record it.

    I used the zippy lipo batteries a lot and found them to be very good.

    This poor bugger was charging lipo's on his car and think something went wrong, can't put my finger on it though. Perhaps that is why I charge my lipo's outside The guy in the background looks like he is warming his hands by a campfire. Can you imagine the phone conversation to his wife when he asks for her to come ad pick him up.


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    Added a splash of color ...
    Looks pretty close to my blue hope pro 2 hubs




  31. #31
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    And I thought the Easy2DIY was a pretty sharp looking light. This one is awesome!

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ofroad'bent View Post
    And I thought the Easy2DIY was a pretty sharp looking light. This one is awesome!
    Agreed!

    You may have quite a few folks wanting one to go with the excellent Tripple's you've built for us. I know I'm tempted -- eagerly awaiting beamshots.
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  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ofroad'bent View Post
    And I thought the Easy2DIY was a pretty sharp looking light. This one is awesome!
    Thanks
    Must admit when i dipped it in the dye the first few dips, my heart sank as it looked like the dye wasn't taking...then the magic happened with every dunk after and I called the Mrs in to look at the color..even she was impressed.



    Quote Originally Posted by ecthelion View Post
    Agreed!

    You may have quite a few folks wanting one to go with the excellent Tripple's you've built for us. I know I'm tempted -- eagerly awaiting beamshots.
    Hi Kipp, thanks
    I'll try to get some beam shots up over the weekend, all its done lately is pee down with rain here.
    I'll combine the shots with the tripple at level 3 and 5, with this light set to the full 3 amps..
    That way we should see if it serves its purpose as a helmet light..

  34. #34
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    looks fantastic Jay. I know that feeling of "crap the dye isn't taking". It's bizarre how just another 30 seconds in the dye makes all the difference and the colour suddenly starts to develop.

  35. #35
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    That looks great!

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    Smile

    You may have quite a few folks wanting one to go with the excellent Tripple's you've built for us. I know I'm tempted -- eagerly awaiting beamshots.
    This.

    I wish to know how you can find the time to keep producing these lovely lights Goldigger with your new arrival. You either have a very understanding partner or you can operate on 2hrs sleep a night!!

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by ruscle View Post
    This.

    I wish to know how you can find the time to keep producing these lovely lights Goldigger with your new arrival. You either have a very understanding partner or you can operate on 2hrs sleep a night!!
    Hi Russell,
    I've had this and another tripple on the go over the last two and a half weeks, I've just squeezed time in where i can..I've still got to get the tripple anodised and wired up for next Tuesday.
    And yes I'm knackered with all the broken sleep..

  38. #38
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    Ah yes, the joys of broken sleep. Just wait till he sleeps through the night for the first time. You'll still wake every couple of hours to check on him.

    At least it explains why you're posting replies in the middle of the night.

  39. #39
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    wow, that's pretty and I love blue!

    A bit late to the party, but here are my helmet light set ups:

    mtb


    commuter

  40. #40
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    Wow GD, that's a beautiful little light. Love the colour, too. Very impressed

  41. #41
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    I decided to wire it up tonight, still need to make a mount and modify one of my remote switches so it can be attached to the helmet.

    As usual the holder on the optic needs a tweek, i drilled two holes in the holder to allow the wires in and then into the little cavity over the solder tabs.



    Dam those lflex's are a bugger to solder as there so small!

    Turned it on and thought that the blue anodising was reflecting into the beam, as there was a strange beam pattern only on high.
    So i removed the front bezel, still the same!
    Then i thought the blue wire must have been touching the optic as the beam looked blue, but still only on high.
    So i carefully popped the optic out of its holder...and this is what i found..


    Had to take it all apart and stick another led in..now the beam looks fine..beam shots hopefully tomorrow night.
    Temporary battery pack..hopefully that should provide enough juice to the lflex for the beamshots?

  42. #42
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    Wow Jay she certainly blew out. I though at first you had de-domed it until I read the thread. Any idea's what went wrong?

    Your light certainly looks sweet though. The blue has come out perfectly

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    Probably a dumb question, but...

    What voltage are you running this thing at? I can't tell if those batteries are all in parallel or not.

    The l-flex is optimised for 3.5v or so. I know more shouldn't hurt it, but it needs to burn off all the excess as heat. Could that have cooked something if you're running too high a voltage?

  44. #44
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    Battery pack is 1S4P 3.7v
    I'm just charging the cells individually at the moment so i'll see what the true capacity is of each cell.
    But i'm using this config as yeti and matt have said that these cells struggle to deliver over 1.7amps..

    I just think it may have been an iffy led.. other than that i have no clue why it happened.

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    First trustfire just finished charging at 1amp..capacity 1511mah
    Now its on a 1amp discharge, it went from 4.2v - 3.82 in about 5 seconds.. doesn't look very promising to me.

  46. #46
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    Beautiful light. Red did not entice me to anodize, but this blue....

    Sorry about the XM-L & Trustfire. Sux lux.

    BrianMc

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    Thanks Brian..

    I charged one of the trustfires up, with my turnigy accucell charger, followed by a discharge and charge.
    These are trhe figures:
    1 amp charge 4.20v capacity 1511
    1 amp discharge 3.00v capacity 1568
    1 amp charge 4.20v capacity 1440

    edit: second cell just finished a 120min charge 4.20v capacity 1490

    Looks pretty crap to me..not sure if i did it correct.
    Finsihed the switch, can tie it to my helmet with a velcro cable tie


    Beamshots..

    Tripple XML at 3amps (cute SS optic)

    Tripple XML at 3amps (cute SS optic) plus Honey i shrunk the tripple XML.
    I noticed that the shadows are gone in front of me..

    Same again but looking slightly right

    Same again looking slightly left

    And on its own with out the monster tripple XML


    Here's a Gif to show the difference between the Tripple XML on it's own then with this light..
    Last edited by Goldigger; 01-07-2012 at 02:33 PM.

  48. #48
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    Great little switch Jay and the helmet light definitely compliments the triple xml.

    Beautiful light. Red did not entice me to anodize, but this blue..
    Brian you either like red or you don't. On a fully black bike it looks fantastic but the problem is with having yellow, orange, violet, blue and green ano dye's what colour to do next

  49. #49
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    interesting idea about the optic holder, must have made things a lot quicker. Odd that the LED blew up, fingers crossed it was just a flaw with the LED.

    Bummer about the batteries, that was worse than I expected (although going from 4.2 to 3.8V very quickly is normal, as is going from 3V to ~3.5V on a charge) The unprotected ones seem better as I've had ~8 of each Trustfire and Uniquefire 2500 come through my hands and they've all come to ~2250mAh, with little variation. I guess the lower capacity is where you pay for the PCB at more or less the same price. They'd still make decent spare buck batteries or for torches/ headlamps if you can stick to 1/2C per cell discharge. I'd offer to buy a couple off you, but there's probably not much point with Royal Mail prices..

  50. #50
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    [QUOTE=brad72;8888901 On a fully black bike it looks fantastic but the problem is with having yellow, orange, violet, blue and green ano dye's what colour to do next[/QUOTE]

    tie-die rainbow?

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattthemuppet View Post
    interesting idea about the optic holder, must have made things a lot quicker. Odd that the LED blew up, fingers crossed it was just a flaw with the LED.

    Bummer about the batteries, that was worse than I expected (although going from 4.2 to 3.8V very quickly is normal, as is going from 3V to ~3.5V on a charge) The unprotected ones seem better as I've had ~8 of each Trustfire and Uniquefire 2500 come through my hands and they've all come to ~2250mAh, with little variation. I guess the lower capacity is where you pay for the PCB at more or less the same price. They'd still make decent spare buck batteries or for torches/ headlamps if you can stick to 1/2C per cell discharge. I'd offer to buy a couple off you, but there's probably not much point with Royal Mail prices..
    I charged 4 up yesterday and they all got around 1450, i did wonder if it was just there age.

    They are so cheap it's probably cheaper to order some new ones from DX.

    I'll just have to get some decent cells, maybe the panasonics or sanyo's..

  52. #52
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    ... and if we just ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldigger View Post
    Same again looking slightly left

    And on its own with out the monster tripple XML


    Here's a Gif to show the difference between the Tripple XML on it's own then with this light..
    Looks like it has a nice beam on it's own, and is a noticable difference vs. just the Tripple XML. I was afraid that the Tripple would just overwhelm it. Nice job, truly professional execution.

    In particular, I like the "slightly left" ability that the helmet gives you -- my neighborhood trails are FLAT so the builders resorted to twisty singletrack as a way to increase the challenge
    Quiring KVA MS2 29er SS
    Quiring XCr Road
    Tallboy Carbon
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    ARR | IMBA NMBP

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldigger View Post
    So i carefully popped the optic out of its holder...and this is what i found..
    I did something similar on one of my XMLs, I'd got tiny blob of solder or dirt on the dome and when I powered it up with 3A, the intensity of the light was so great the dirt started smoking and burnt through the silicone of the dome!

  54. #54
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    Ecthelion, all the trails that I ride are tight twisty single track and the combination of helmet and bar lights is perfect. Having just 1 light would be a great disadvantage as when going around a tight corner you turn you head to see the exit (helmet light) but you can still see the corner through your peripheral vision (bar light)

    I also though the helmet lights would be washed out but once out on the trail it is amazing just how much extra light is adds

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldigger View Post
    I charged 4 up yesterday and they all got around 1450, i did wonder if it was just there age.

    They are so cheap it's probably cheaper to order some new ones from DX.

    I'll just have to get some decent cells, maybe the panasonics or sanyo's..
    ah well, part discharge them and stick 'em in the fridge for a rainy day project.

    I've had great success with the 2 different capacity Panasonics I've used, so those get my vote (and that of most of the torch world it seems), but anything quality should do.

  56. #56
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    Looking on the net these senysbors batteries seem to rate really highly and come out better than panasonics and are cheaper. link to UK ebay sales below:

    eBay - The UK's Online Marketplace

    Also am I correct in thinking to make a 7.4v 5600Mah battery pack from these you would connect them in parallel pairs and connect the pairs in series then out to the source?

  57. #57
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    looking at the discharge curve I think the yezl would be better for our applications, it certainly has the flatter discharge curve, until the end that is.

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    I am looking at these cells 2x BLAZAR PROTECTED Panasonic NCR 18650 A 3100mAh Lithium Li-ion battery | eBay

    The only problem is how to charge them if I make them into 1s2p pack as both cells are protected

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by ruscle View Post
    Looking on the net these senysbors batteries seem to rate really highly and come out better than panasonics and are cheaper. link to UK ebay sales below:

    eBay - The UK's Online Marketplace

    Also am I correct in thinking to make a 7.4v 5600Mah battery pack from these you would connect them in parallel pairs and connect the pairs in series then out to the source?
    I looked at the senybor's but read this Senybor 18650 Battery test ..

    Im dubious of that uk seller, i just get the impression its another person who resells chinese stuff..

  60. #60
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    This has to be the best deal I've seen..
    2 x 4000mah 18650's for £1 (£3.79 deliveredm from HK)
    2PCS UltraFire 18650 3.7V 4000mAh Rechargeable Battery Li-ion Lithium Batteries | eBay

  61. #61
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    Seems to be a minefield out their when it comes to batteries, was alarmed to read through this about batteries and he unwrapped several to show they were re-used laptop cells!! The ultrafires and trustfires don't seem to be rated at all. Looking at the data Emu may be correct in the thinking that the Yezl 2400Mah would be best suited or even the Torchy 2600/2400Mah batteries.

    Torchy the Battery Boy: 18650 Batteries / Chargers

  62. #62
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    I am looking at these cells 2x BLAZAR PROTECTED Panasonic NCR 18650 A 3100mAh Lithium Li-ion battery | eBay

    The only problem is how to charge them if I make them into 1s2p pack as both cells are protected

    This may help you with making your battery pack brad as shows the wiring for balancing so they charge evenly, all you would need to do is purchase a balancing connector:

    R/C Calculations

    Batteries look very expensive! Best recommended batteries seem to be AW and cheapest is:

    Batteries - All - BATTERIES & CHARGERS

    What voltage and Mah pack would you need for your shrunk tripple Goldigger?

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by brad72 View Post
    I am looking at these cells 2x BLAZAR PROTECTED Panasonic NCR 18650 A 3100mAh Lithium Li-ion battery | eBay

    The only problem is how to charge them if I make them into 1s2p pack as both cells are protected
    why not get 2x Panasonic NCR 18650 A 3100mAh Lithium Li-Ion battery | eBay and save yourself a few bucks?

  64. #64
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    the feeling I get about 18650s is that, for unprotected cells at least, if you want good bang for your buck go with pretty much any mid-rated Samsung, Sanyo, Panasonic, 2400-2600mAh. They're all pretty close to their rated capacities and should be able to provide 1/2C or more with ease. If you want the highest capacity, get the Panasonic 2900 or 3100mAh and pony up the cash. Trying to hit the middle road and save money over the high end Panasonics is a waste of time. I have 2400mAh Panasonic cells in all my packs and I really don't care about the lesser run time compared to the 3100 cells as they packs last as long as I need them to.

    As for protected cells, that's a whole 'nother kettle of fish. If I wanted single cells capable of high drain I'd only buy ones recommended by several people off CPF and BLF that have been tested. Thankfully, for our needs we can cheap out and skip the protection or get a separate PCB.

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by brad72 View Post
    I am looking at these cells 2x BLAZAR PROTECTED Panasonic NCR 18650 A 3100mAh Lithium Li-ion battery | eBay

    The only problem is how to charge them if I make them into 1s2p pack as both cells are protected
    You don't need balance taps if making a 1S2P battery pack as each cell will get exactly what it needs when charging at 3.7V.

    You don't need to worry about the protection circuits either. I have 2S1P and 4S1P battery packs all with the original protection circuits in each cell and they don't cause any problems when charging at 7.4V and 14.8V respectively.

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by ruscle View Post
    This may help you with making your battery pack brad as shows the wiring for balancing so they charge evenly, all you would need to do is purchase a balancing connector:

    R/C Calculations

    Batteries look very expensive! Best recommended batteries seem to be AW and cheapest is:

    Batteries - All - BATTERIES & CHARGERS

    What voltage and Mah pack would you need for your shrunk tripple Goldigger?
    3.7v ..the Mah is up to the user but the higher the better. Bear in mind that on high its being driven at 3 amps.. I would aim for 5200mah.

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by OverTheHill View Post
    You don't need balance taps if making a 1S2P battery pack as each cell will get exactly what it needs when charging at 3.7V.

    You don't need to worry about the protection circuits either. I have 2S1P and 4S1P battery packs all with the original protection circuits in each cell and they don't cause any problems when charging at 7.4V and 14.8V respectively.
    Jay sorry to hijack the thread.

    I also wanted to avoid the balance plugs and just charge off the battery wire but shouldn't I charge at 4.2 volts or is the extra voltage just wasted as heat because the lfex is a linear driver and the XML only need about 3.2v @3A?
    Last edited by brad72; 01-10-2012 at 04:09 PM.

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    No problem Brad, it helps me to..

    OverTheHill, if you charge the 1S2P pack how does the charger know that the two cells have reached there full capacity?

  69. #69
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    brad72:

    I specified 3.7V because that is what I would select on my charger (I have a Turnigy Accucell-6) to charge a 1S2P pack. The charger will take the pack up to 4.2V though for a full charge.

    Goldigger:

    Assuming you have a reasonable charger it should be able to sense when both cells are fully charged. You can think of a 1S2P pack as just a bigger bucket i.e 2 x 2500mAh will give 5000mAh rather than two smaller separate buckets of 2500mAh.

    Charging packs of parallel cells is much simpler than packs of serial cells which give higher voltages.

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by OverTheHill View Post
    brad72:

    I specified 3.7V because that is what I would select on my charger (I have a Turnigy Accucell-6) to charge a 1S2P pack. The charger will take the pack up to 4.2V though for a full charge.

    Goldigger:

    Assuming you have a reasonable charger it should be able to sense when both cells are fully charged. You can think of a 1S2P pack as just a bigger bucket i.e 2 x 2500mAh will give 5000mAh rather than two smaller separate buckets of 2500mAh.

    Charging packs of parallel cells is much simpler than packs of serial cells which give higher voltages.
    I have the same charger as you..

  71. #71
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    I took the plunge and got some of the panasonic NCR18650's 3100mah from the mentioned ebay seller..
    I didnt realise that the seller was torchyboy..
    2x Panasonic 3100mAh NCR 18650A 3.7v batteries + case | eBay

    Bit expensive but if they live up to there claims they should work well with this helmet light..

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldigger View Post
    I took the plunge and got some of the panasonic NCR18650's 3100mah from the mentioned ebay seller..
    I didnt realise that the seller was torchyboy..
    2x Panasonic 3100mAh NCR 18650A 3.7v batteries + case | eBay

    Bit expensive but if they live up to there claims they should work well with this helmet light..
    Just one word of warning Goldigger, I don't think those Panasonic cells have protection circuits on them. No problem when using Flex drivers but something to bear in mind if you ever want to use them on a light which doesn't have a driver with low voltage protection.

  73. #73
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    Goldigger please let us know how you get on with these batteries.

    I almost pressed the pay now button. But I'll hang on 'till I read your view on them.

    One thing for sure though is the fact that the DX ***Fires are not as good as the were a few years back. My last batch of the things about 6 months ago are pointless. They don't even have the normally expected Li-ion voltage curve, they just drop from 4.2 V to 3 V without the usual hanging around at 3.7 V. and thats driving lights at only 1 A

  74. #74
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    Will do yeti..
    What's the advice on charging them? I've read something about charging them and discharging them for a few cycles to get the full capacity...should I do this?

  75. #75
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    No, that's the old days of Ni- Cd and Ni-M. Just charge them and use them, Try not to let any cell go bellow 3 V to prolong their life and try to charge at 1 - 1.5 A unless you're in a rush.

  76. #76
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    yeti, different seller I know, but my friend has been very happy with his new 2P NCR18650A powered pack. He runs it on med most of the time with occasional spells on high and I don't think he's yet tripped the Vmed warning, even on a 3h night ride earlier this week.

    If I were building a new helmet light for myself, 2 of these would be what I'd get. For bigger packs I'd probably get something cheaper as capacity and power draw would be less of an issue, but I don't think you can do better than these.

  77. #77
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    The Panasonic cells arrived this morning, I've got one on the charger at the moment..
    When discharging to test capacity do i discharge to 3v?

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    I've read somewhere that panasonic recommend around 2.5v for the cut off point as too long under 2.5v can harm the battery. Also the protection circuits you can get on some cells are meant to cut off at 2.5v or their abouts. The persons charts you got the battery from cuts of at 2.75v to show the discharge capacity.

  79. #79
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    That's a bigger...the turnigy accucell only has preset discharge programs..

    NiCd/NiMH voltage level:1.2V/cell
    allowable fast charge current:1C~2C depends on the
    performance of cell discharge voltage cut off level
    0.85V/cell(NiCd), 1.0V/cell(NiMH)

    Lilo voltage level:3.6V/cell
    max.charge voltage:4.1V/cell
    allowable fast charge current: 1C or less
    min.discharge voltage cut off level:2.5V/cell or higher

    LiPo voltage level:3.7V/cell
    max.charge voltage:4.2V/cell
    allowable fast charge current: 1C or less
    discharge voltage cut off level:3.0V/cell or higher

    Life voltage level:3.3V/cell
    max.charge voltage:3.6V/cell
    allowable fast charge current: 4C or less(e.g. A123M1)
    discharge voltage cut off level:2.0V/cell or higher

    Pb voltage level:2.0V/cell
    (Lead-acid) max.charge voltage:2.46V/cell
    allowable fast charge current:0.4C or less
    discharge voltage cut off level:1.50V/cell or higher

    Is there any reason why i cant discharge them on the Lilo setting?
    Last edited by Goldigger; 01-16-2012 at 10:46 AM.

  80. #80
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    You could discharge a cell 'till the protection kicks in (run a light with it). Then check how much capacity was put back in when you charge it.

    I have a GT Power A6 charger that shows the capacity being replaced as it charges, not sure if your charger does that.

  81. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattthemuppet View Post
    yeti, different seller I know, but my friend has been very happy with his new 2P NCR18650A powered pack. He runs it on med most of the time with occasional spells on high and I don't think he's yet tripped the Vmed warning, even on a 3h night ride earlier this week.

    If I were building a new helmet light for myself, 2 of these would be what I'd get. For bigger packs I'd probably get something cheaper as capacity and power draw would be less of an issue, but I don't think you can do better than these.
    matthermuppet, have you got a link to the seller please.

  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by yetibetty View Post
    You could discharge a cell 'till the protection kicks in (run a light with it). Then check how much capacity was put back in when you charge it.

    I have a GT Power A6 charger that shows the capacity being replaced as it charges, not sure if your charger does that.
    Yes the turnigy does, I put one on charge, starting voltage was 3.72v, charged up to 4.20v and put in 1500 odd mah
    I then discharged to 3v and the capacity drained was 1999mah
    Last edited by Goldigger; 01-16-2012 at 12:04 PM.

  83. #83
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    Charge the cell back up @ 1 A 'till the charger says full and see what gets put back in. As you are charging from a cell drained to 3 V I would expect at least 2700 to be put back in if the 3000 mah is to be believed.

  84. #84
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    According to Panasonic the low voltage is 2.5v.
    I've put the turnigy accucell 6 in NiMh discharge as you can change it to 2.5v cutoff.
    I'll then charge at 1amp in lipo mode 4.2v cutoff and see what happens..

  85. #85
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    Ok discharged one cell to 2.5v and had to charge it twice as the Turnigy Accucell is set to 120min charge time limit in Lipo mode 4.2v
    First charge 4.12v 2005mah 120mins
    Second charge 4.20v 666mah 91mins 42sec

    2671mah

  86. #86
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    Right after the full charge I discharged again to 2.5v and it drained 2971mah...

  87. #87
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    Good stuff!!! So the cells look like they live up to their name.

    If your charger is like mine you should be able to set the charge time to what ever you want and set the max capacity to charge a battery up to. I have a G.T. Power A6 but I thought that these chargers are all clones of each other.

  88. #88
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    They're awesome batteries that's for sure. After a couple of cycles the 2P pack I built was taking over 6000mAh, which is just crazy. The 4P pack I built with the Ultrafires is only 9000mAh with twice the cells!

  89. #89
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    Matt, When you put your 1S2P together did you have the lead go to the + on the first battery and the - from the second battery?
    Only ask as i read that it was advised to do it like so, but didnt give a reason..it was highlighted as a small detail.

    I cant see it making much difference, is it possible if you had the lead come of the same cell, even though they are connected in parallel that the cell closest may drain more than the other?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Honey I Shrunk the Tripple XM-L-battery.jpg  


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    I didn't do it like that, although it's not a bad idea. I just used the thickest wire I could find (from the 12V rail on a PSU!) to minimise any resistance in the wire between the cells. If I did it again, I'd do what you showed ^

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    The link below is very handy, it actually made me understand what was needed to do to build a battery pack!! You can change the different amounts in series and parallel and when making a 1S2P it does show the wires leading to and from opposite batteries.

    R/C Calculations

  92. #92
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    Got the mount done this evening..
    Two shots to show the range of motion possible with this mount..



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    Jaw dropping!

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    Matt, how did you join your cells up before you plastidipped them?
    Have you used the spray on plastidip?
    Did you solder them? or did yours have tabs on?

    I tried knocking up a case to hold them in, not made the cover yet as i ran out of time..
    But i think it will be to bulky for a helemt mounted pack, the external dimensions still need trimming down.
    Last edited by Goldigger; 01-22-2012 at 05:12 PM.

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    Probably not as important when helmet mounted but be careful width spring loaded cells.. Vibration can cause flicker.

  96. #96
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    I don't think I have any pics of the 2 cell packs I did, but I build all my packs like this, from post 65 on.

    Cells are usually hot glued together in whatever orientation I need. I put the glued cells into a little jig that I hold in my vice so there's no risk of accidentally shorting them while I work on the battery.

    I solder direct to the cells. First, I rough up the ends with a file or a dremel cutting wheels. Then I tin them with some nice toxic solder (I use a pair of chunky pliers to sink the heat afterwards) plus I tin the wires. After that it's just a case of holding the wires to the solder blobs with the pliers, melt them together and hold the pliers on the join afterwards for a few seconds. You shouldn't need to hold the iron on the cell for more than 5s each time.

    After that, I wrap them with marine/ self fusing silicone tape (I've used heatshrink 1st on a couple of newer builds, which is a nice touch), usually around the waist first, then lengthwise over the top of the velcro cinch strap. If you overlap by 50% each wrap, you'll end up with a rubber cover ~4mm thick at least. Then I give it 3-4 coats of the spray plastidip to seal it.

    I've build a 2 cell pack with a digikey plastic holder and electricians tape/ spray plastidip (not my prettiest creation, but I'm too lazy to re do it) too, and it comes out pretty much the same weight as the marine tape version (~140g), so you may not save too much weight by ditching the holder.

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    GD, sent you a PM, but maybe it got lost. I've got two of DX sku 100999 that I'd send for a quid postage. They don't work with cells that don't have a pronounced + end; the leads are thin, so would have to be replaced; and they grab the cell with enough vengence that you wouldn't want to be popping cells in and out of them. Still, as a sealed up battery pack, they might work.
    The study du jour: can one's reputation be artificially inflated by simply putting a request for rep in one's sig?

  98. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by borrower View Post
    GD, sent you a PM, but maybe it got lost. I've got two of DX sku 100999 that I'd send for a quid postage. They don't work with cells that don't have a pronounced + end; the leads are thin, so would have to be replaced; and they grab the cell with enough vengence that you wouldn't want to be popping cells in and out of them. Still, as a sealed up battery pack, they might work.
    Yes got your PM, but im pretty crap af responding to them straight away, I still have PM's on CPF from people asking for lights that i havent replied to.

    I'll give the holders a miss thanks, the holder I've started to make is a nice tight fit so i'm not to concerned about vibration.
    The idea of this holder is so i can take the cells out if needed..

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    GD, no problem. Same offer goes out to anyone in the UK... 2 crap holders for a quid. Best case, as noted, is for use in a sealed up pack with a cell that's got a pronounced button +. PM me.
    The study du jour: can one's reputation be artificially inflated by simply putting a request for rep in one's sig?

  100. #100
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    Pretty much finished the battery holder, but waiting on a router rounding bit, so i can round of the edges..
    but it weighs 200grams assembled, so i probably wont use it for a helmet light..

    Time to try the plasti dip..will one can be enough to cover two cells?

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