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Thread: Hi di Heidi-d

  1. #1
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    Hi di Heidi-d

    A very nice man from ledil has sent me some Heidi-d optics to have a play with .
    and I am pleasantly supprised with the results.
    a quick botch up on to some leds to see what the are like and will let the pics do the rest .



    HEIDI-D OVER XPE


    HEIDI-D OVER XPG


    BOTH TOGETHER


    Not too shabby on the XPG and I bet it would be a good one to do a double XPG
    Last edited by troutie-mtb; 04-26-2010 at 03:44 PM.

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    Yes. That is very nice indeed. Thanks for the look see and heads up. I see an Amoeba or three and clones and a few CuLites with them in the future too.

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    That lense looks slightly frosted or is that just my eyes? Do you know what angle it is and if they are doing a narrower one?

    Thanks Troutie for doing all the testing for the rest of us.

    OOI, have you moved the spot you take the pic from a little closer to that tree over the last few months? I have a vague recollection of it being further away in the first lot of pics you took on that trail

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    Quote Originally Posted by emu26
    That lense looks slightly frosted or is that just my eyes? Do you know what angle it is and if they are doing a narrower one?

    Thanks Troutie for doing all the testing for the rest of us.

    OOI, have you moved the spot you take the pic from a little closer to that tree over the last few months? I have a vague recollection of it being further away in the first lot of pics you took on that trail

    Well spotted Stu yes but only 3 feet the little brance on the right is hanging down right where I usually put the tripod . so had to move just past it will take some clippers and do a pruning next time

    The blurb says 6 degree fwhm for the XPG and 4 degrees for the XPE
    when I tried it in daylight it seemed not very good but was supprised it threw past the 75 metre trees and lit up the 150 mtr trees with out a very hotspot and not too much wasted spill like a lot of the optics .

    I was even more supprised to see them through the post box , the UK Ledil rep I contacted said he would send me a Heidi and Regina when they had stock and he is the first one to actually keep his word but no Regina just yet .

    I have been looking for the right optic to do the elusive batteries included light to use 2 XPGs in I have tried them in one with 2 XPEs in and that is a very good thrower
    The beam above with one of each is sweet

    the base will fit nicely with the solder pads on a 20 mm star and also only needs a small tweak to fit over the pads on the 10 mm square boards
    but would not work at all with the likes of Quazzles or Cutters drivers inc boards .


    My Impressions are it is a good optic with a nice beam for the XPG

  5. #5
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    Quite similar to the CXP but with more spill, thanks to the frosting.
    I like it (still holding out for emily though).

    http://www.ledil.com/datasheets/Data...heidi-xp-g.pdf
    http://www.ledil.com/datasheets/DataSheet_CXP-G.pdf
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    I wonder what it looks like on an MC-E?

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    Maybe it's just me but, I really would like to see this type of beam in a 10 or 12 mm size!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vancbiker
    Maybe it's just me but, I really would like to see this type of beam in a 10 or 12 mm size!

    You are not alone there it would be sweet if they did a 10 mm like it .


    Stu an MCE wont fit the hole in the optic it appears to have been designed from the ground up for the XP series of led .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vancbiker
    Maybe it's just me but, I really would like to see this type of beam in a 10 or 12 mm size!
    I haven't studied the physics involved in these optics enough to know an answer, but I have to assume there are tradeoffs involved that make that extremely difficult. At least while maintaining an acceptable level of efficiency. Something I wouldn't mind understanding better when I find a little bit of time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by troutie-mtb
    Stu an MCE wont fit the hole in the optic it appears to have been designed from the ground up for the XP series of led .
    I knew you would have had a look at it

    Thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by troutie-mtb
    You are not alone there it would be sweet if they did a 10 mm like it .


    Stu an MCE wont fit the hole in the optic it appears to have been designed from the ground up for the XP series of led .
    ...What if you took the emitter dome off.... Think it might work?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-man-do
    ...What if you took the emitter dome off.... Think it might work?
    I have a couple of damaged xpgs might do a bit of surgery on them and see what happens .

    I put a twin XPG test rig together last night so can now compare with the twin XPE

    in the garden the xpe still outthrew the xpg in its hot spot but this time the xpg looked to be the brighter so I think is is using those additional lumens a whole lot better than the earlier optics I would like to push the XPG s to their max 1500 ma drive that would be a huge 920 lumens from 2 leds in a nice beam

  13. #13
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    bit more testing

    the more I use these the more I like them .

    just been out with both test rigs and the Heidi really is a good optic for the xp family .
    I cant believe it is only 2 leds Ledil have made o good one here .

    2 of the natural white XPEs distance to the barn 160 metres



    2 XPGs R5 cool white I think




    Admitted there is still the floodier beam from the G but it does throw nearly as well
    and has just the right spill for a great light .


    and both sets together though I had aiming problems with both test rigs so not too good a pic .



    Last edited by troutie-mtb; 04-29-2010 at 04:55 PM.

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    I like it. Makes me wish I would'a ordered one more L32 from quazzle. My single XP-G may get a companion.



    I definitely like the creepy bldg!

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    Quote Originally Posted by chelboed
    I like it. Makes me wish I would'a ordered one more L32 from quazzle. My single XP-G may get a companion.
    The large mounting "flange" on this optic may make it incompatible with a Quazzle module. The flange will likely interfere with the driver components. It may be possible to cut away the offending portions of the optic though.

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    I see this as potentially a good optic for all those making small and lightweight lights. Since the LED can be sealed in the optic with potting compound, you can potentially eliminate any housing around the optic. Might want to paint the outside of the optic to prevent blinding, especially for a bar light.

    With a remote mounted driver you could in theory have an LED on a heatsink with the optic attached and no other components required. It might be a bit more fragile though...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vancbiker
    The large mounting "flange" on this optic may make it incompatible with a Quazzle module. The flange will likely interfere with the driver components. It may be possible to cut away the offending portions of the optic though.
    Yeah...I don't think hacking into it will be too much of an issue by the looks of things.


    Quote Originally Posted by mtbikerTi
    Since the LED can be sealed in the optic with potting compound, you can potentially eliminate any housing around the optic
    Is this some sort of "gum" type of stuff that you would pack into the cavity?



    Quote Originally Posted by mtbikerTi
    With a remote mounted driver you could in theory have an LED on a heatsink with the optic attached and no other components required. It might be a bit more fragile though...
    No external driver necessary if you could retrofit to quazzle's board.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chelboed
    Yeah...I don't think hacking into it will be too much of an issue by the looks of things.
    Of course if you hack into it then it would be difficult to pour in any kind of potting compound without getting it on the LED.


    Quote Originally Posted by chelboed
    this some sort of "gum" type of stuff that you would pack into the cavity?
    The stuff I've used in the past is a "flowable silicone". Basically a self leveling silicon, except it is non acidic and safe for electronics.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by znomit
    Quite similar to the CXP but with more spill, thanks to the frosting.
    I like it (still holding out for emily though).

    http://www.ledil.com/datasheets/Data...heidi-xp-g.pdf
    http://www.ledil.com/datasheets/DataSheet_CXP-G.pdf

    OK.
    I finally got my CXP light going(had a brief ride last year, blew the driver caps immediately, built a new circuit and epoxied it in before testing it, didn't work... finally dug out the epoxy and rewired it).
    Anyhoo, CXP narrow with an XPE and XPG makes a very nice road beam but does need more spill. Heidi should be great!

    ps mtbikerTi...
    You can't paint the outside of TIR optics it ruins them! These babies still need a nice housing to live in.
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    You can paint most anything with the right paint and prep, however it would be a good idea to do a little experimenting with paint colors to find out what effects the paint has on the light output. I'm thinking something like a white or silver.

    Also using a paint that doesn't chemically bond with the optic would probably have less effect on the internal reflectance.

    It may not work, but it would be an interesting thing to try.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mtbikerTi
    You can paint most anything with the right paint and prep, however it would be a good idea to do a little experimenting with paint colors to find out what effects the paint has on the light output. I'm thinking something like a white or silver.

    Also using a paint that doesn't chemically bond with the optic would probably have less effect on the internal reflectance.

    It may not work, but it would be an interesting thing to try.
    I agree with znomit, the physics involved would suggest painting the surface of a TIR optic will completely change the way it functions. TIR optics are designed such that the angle of incidence of light inside the optic are larger than the critical angle for the medium boundary. In this case the medium boundary is polymer/air. If you paint it, the medium boundary becomes polymer/paint.

    If you paint it with reflective paint, you've essentially changed it from a TIR optic to a reflector. It'll likely be a really inefficient reflector given that you still have the polymer medium losses but you lose the benefits of nearly 100% efficiency of the TIR boundary.

    But, I've never tried it to see what really happens. So if you try it, let us know what happens.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mtbikerTi
    You can paint most anything with the right paint and prep, however it would be a good idea to do a little experimenting with paint colors to find out what effects the paint has on the light output. I'm thinking something like a white or silver.

    Also using a paint that doesn't chemically bond with the optic would probably have less effect on the internal reflectance.

    It may not work, but it would be an interesting thing to try.
    Interesting, but won't aid in focus.
    Should cause extensive defocus. Optics do not work on the priciples of reflectors. The optic will focus light passing through it and uses peripheral as well as centrally projected light.
    Painting the optic will ruin the beam smoothness, throw, intensity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MtbMacgyver
    I agree with znomit, the physics involved would suggest painting the surface of a TIR optic will completely change the way it functions. TIR optics are designed such that the angle of incidence of light inside the optic are larger than the critical angle for the medium boundary. In this case the medium boundary is polymer/air. If you paint it, the medium boundary becomes polymer/paint.

    If you paint it with reflective paint, you've essentially changed it from a TIR optic to a reflector. It'll likely be a really inefficient reflector given that you still have the polymer medium losses but you lose the benefits of nearly 100% efficiency of the TIR boundary.

    But, I've never tried it to see what really happens. So if you try it, let us know what happens.
    MtbMac is exactly right. Painting a TIR optic is a great way to ruin it. Potting it will have the same effect. An air/plastic interface is required in order for these optics to work properly. I suspect you'll also change the effeciency if you pot the led into it, or at least change the beam pattern.

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    Seems I've stirred up some discussion on TIR optics...

    I don't have any optics to test this on, but perhaps someone has some older LED's and optics laying around that they would want to experiment with.

    Since the discussion is going I'll add that to achieve manufacturers specs you should also make sure that the optic is completely clean before you close up your housing (i.e. remove fingerprints).

    Quote Originally Posted by jmitchell13
    Potting it will have the same effect. An air/plastic interface is required in order for these optics to work properly. I suspect you'll also change the effeciency if you pot the led into it, or at least change the beam pattern.
    I was originally referring to potting only the base, just enough to cover up the LED PCB. The Heidi was designed with that purpose in mind.

  25. #25
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    I think it would have been tried by the optic makers and would be on sale if it worked .
    Though I do recall seeing somewhere a tir optic with silvered sides which was totaly potable cant remember where it was though .

    Heidi fits nicely on a 20 mm star

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