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  1. #1
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    Double XML/ Hammond / Lauras / H6flex

    Nothing fancy. Just a Hammond, double reginas, etc.. But with an H6flex and 2 Xml's.

    I'm a bit unsecure about driving the XML's at 3A on a Hammond. Just in case, I used the entire enclosure and used as a base for the XML's, a piece of 5mm alu bar and a L piece of 1,5mm alu. And I have a few old VGA heatsinks to attach to the enclosure if necessary.

    The H6Flex is attached to the enclosure with the supplied tape.

    I just finished it. I didn't do a lot of testing yet so not sure about the possible heat problem.
    I will use a 3s1p 5000mha lipo pack. While I'm waiting for my B6 charger I'm using an MS battery for the first tests.

    Itís not very light. The extra alu and the m6 gland do make a difference. But since itís for the bars it will have to do.
    Based on Troutie beamshots, I already ordered some laura and cxp optics to test since they do seem to have a better beam than the reginas.

    I'm going to make a few tests tonight and I will try to take a few beamshots.





    Last edited by bravellir; 02-13-2011 at 04:07 PM.

  2. #2
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    Looks good. Nice and clean!!!
    I have a hammond build planned for a couple XM-Ls.
    Thinking I will need some heatsinking since I plan to shorten the case a little......= )
    I have an old chipset heatsink I attached to my XP-G hammond build. It helps ALOT!!!!!
    Look, whatever happens, don't fight the mountain.

  3. #3
    A waste of time it is is
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    will be interesting to hear how it copes with the heat

  4. #4
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    Mine next light project will probably be exactly the same! Except I plan to shorten the hammond box a bit and probably add a CPU heatsink on the top. BTW, what is the lenght of this box you are using? 80 mm?

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by emu26
    will be interesting to hear how it copes with the heat

    Looks very clean and tidy no problems heat wise for that light in the UK be very interested how it copes in a warmer place .


    how long is the case ?

  6. #6
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    Nice & neat bravellir.

    I like the red wire, could you let me know where you got it?

  7. #7
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    Looks really nice and the double XML does put out some heat.

  8. #8
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    tks

    Without you pointing to where to find the parts it would never had happened


    The enclosure itís a 1455C801, so yes, its 80mm.

    This is an X-ray of it

    I could have assembled the H6Flex upside down, or even shorten the L piece a bit, but since I will build it again with some Laura's I chose to be cautious and wait till I'm more secure about how it will deal with the heat.


    The red wire is from Farnell. There are several colors. I also got some orange that looks nice.
    http://pt.farnell.com/jsp/search/pro...sp?SKU=3855715

    Last night I got a few beamshots. The camera itís a point and shot so.. not the mtbr settings. Instead, from the exif in the photos they are F/2.8, 2 Sec, ISO-125

    Control


    dx sku 36356, P7 torch


    dx sku 13658, XR-E R2 dropin, in a plastic housing.


    MS 900


    Hammond, double XPG R5, Reginas, 1A


    Hammond double XML,Reginas,H6flex, 1.4A


    Hammond double XML,Reginas,H6flex, 3A


    Iím using Georges drivers for the first time, great stuff btw, Iím starting to realize how much this diy thing depends on George work. And Iím a little puzzled. The H6 itís configured as UIB2, 3A, cutoff 6.0v, low voltage warning 6.5v, medium voltage warning 7.4v, and to flash every 5sec. The battery was 8,23v but I still got the 5 flashes at 5sec intervals like if the batteries were below 7.4v.
    Any thoughts?

    Las night it were 5 degrees C and the light was on just for a few minutes and was warm but not that much. As soon as Iím comfortable and confirmed all the H6flex settings Iím going to do a ďburn inĒ test and will post results.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by bravellir
    I’m using Georges drivers for the first time, great stuff btw, I’m starting to realize how much this diy thing depends on George work. And I’m a little puzzled. The H6 it’s configured as UIB2, 3A, cutoff 6.0v, low voltage warning 6.5v, medium voltage warning 7.4v, and to flash every 5sec. The battery was 8,23v but I still got the 5 flashes at 5sec intervals like if the batteries were below 7.4v.
    Any thoughts?
    I believe your problem is in a cable. As nice as it looks, it is a bit underfed for this light. 0.22 mm^2 is about 24 AWG. And such a wire for such high currents is at the very edge of its ability. According to this table, maximum current for chassis wiring for 24 AWG is 3.4A! So, you are not that far from absolute maximum it is supposed to work under.

    It also has not so negligible resistance. Let's suppose your cable length is 1 m (so, 2 m for both wires). If the input current is around 3 A (yes, I know it's a bit less than that), your voltage drop between the battery and the driver is 0.5 V. So, even if your battery is fresh from the charger, your H6Flex will "see" it as 7.7V instead of 8.2V. And hence your premature warning flashes....

  10. #10
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    I think ortelius is correct so maybe keep the wire as short as possible. 5 degrees C is quite cold so battery voltage may have dropped a bit due to that.

    Great beam for a bar light.

  11. #11
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    Can't wait for "heat test" impressions, as I'm going to use similar "L" shaped alu or copper in alu square tube.

  12. #12
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    I know the wire its being used closed to its maximum, but I was hoping it would still manage 3A. I was watching any sign of overheating from the wire and couldnít notice any increase in temperature, any smell or smoke.

    I will try to measure voltage at the h6flex end instead the battery end, and probably will try a thicker wire.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by bravellir

    Iím using Georges drivers for the first time, great stuff btw, Iím starting to realize how much this diy thing depends on George work. And Iím a little puzzled. The H6 itís configured as UIB2, 3A, cutoff 6.0v, low voltage warning 6.5v, medium voltage warning 7.4v, and to flash every 5sec. The battery was 8,23v but I still got the 5 flashes at 5sec intervals like if the batteries were below 7.4v.
    Any thoughts?
    I agree completely to the first bit

    If you're using a 3S pack, shouldn't your cutoff be 3x 3V, ie. 9V? I thought discharging a Li-ion or LiPo cell below 3V could lead to irreversible damage? For reference, my b2flex, driving a 2x XP-G light from a 3S1P pack, has cutoff/low/med at 9/9.7/10.something volts.

    I'm afraid that doesn't answer why your stat light was flashing, but hopefully the info will be useful!

  14. #14
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    I'll be interested to hear how you fare trimming the Lauras. I've plans for a similar build, but I note that the Laura datasheet shows they're 21.6mm, and the 1455C801 looks to be a 20mm inside height. Perhaps Troutie can share with us how he removed them from the holder (or maybe that makes no difference WRT fit). Thanks for the build info!
    - Joe

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattthemuppet
    I agree completely to the first bit

    If you're using a 3S pack, shouldn't your cutoff be 3x 3V, ie. 9V? I thought discharging a Li-ion or LiPo cell below 3V could lead to irreversible damage? For reference, my b2flex, driving a 2x XP-G light from a 3S1P pack, has cutoff/low/med at 9/9.7/10.something volts.

    I'm afraid that doesn't answer why your stat light was flashing, but hopefully the info will be useful!

    I'm using for now a 2S pack (MS). I received today my Imax B6AC so will soon switch to a 3S Lipo

    NuMexJoe

    I'm hopping that I can grind that 1,6mm from the optic without trashing it. Not planning on using the holder.
    Did someone tried that already?

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by bravellir
    I'm using for now a 2S pack (MS). I received today my Imax B6AC so will soon switch to a 3S Lipo
    ah, I understand now. I think the buck *flex drivers need 1V difference between Vin and Vout to stay in regulation, so 2S packs with 2 LED strings can do funny things. Hopefully switching to a 3S pack will sort the problem

  17. #17
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    Well.. I did a small test today inside since I probably wonít be able to test it on the trails for the next few days.



    I put the light on my ďwind tunnelĒ. The room temperature was 26C and the the cheap Multimeter indicated that the enclosure was at 22C.



    I switched on the fan, and with the light on max at 3A, it quickly rise to 35C but then stayed there. After 15minutes I turned the fan off.



    It jumped up and about 5min later when the multimeter was indicating 47C, the H6Flex tripped. I had it configured to trip at 60C so..



    Didnít touch anything and 5 minutes later the multimeter indicated 43C and was quite stable.



    Still with the light at the ďtripĒ level ( I think is L3 ) I switch on the fan , and it took 5 minutes to stabilize at 30C.

    So.. Is there any conclusions that we can take from this??

    I know that the multimeter is probably very inaccurate, that I have no idea what speed the fan was simulating and that a 40 minutes test is way too quick, that the probe was making a bad thermal contact and was being cooled by the air flow, but I think that it might work, even without the heatsinks that I had planned.

    Now I just need to get my bike and go ride in the woods : damm cold.

  18. #18
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    I really like it, this is the true spirit of diy!

    Done with just a hacksaw and a few sheets of sandpaper.



    Ps: Estou sů a brincar.. tenho de aparecer na Nortebike para ver esses xml!

  19. #19
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    Still didn't had the chance to ride with the light, but I already made a few changes.

    Most important I investigated why the light blinked on full charged MS batteries when medium voltage warning is 7.4v.
    I measured 8.11v at the in+ and in- on the H6flex with the light off and 6.98 with the H6flex at 3A.
    I then removed the red wire I was using and connected just the MS cable. The total length from the batteries to the H6flex its around 40 cm including the connectors. It measured approximately the same values: 8.08v and 7.02v. Close to 1V drop.

    Does this make sense? Itís really the MS batteries ( or the cable they use ) the ones to blame here? I'm I missing something?

  20. #20
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    bravellir
    I think that it's crappy thin MS cable to blame.
    I use MS extension cable with my 2s Lipo and double XPG light, and the cable gets really warm while in use.
    So, the cable is thinner than it should be.

  21. #21
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    Although the Magicshine cables are somewhat thin gauge, I generally haven't found them to be a significant cause of voltage drops under load. On the other hand it seems 18650 cells, at least the typical cheap Chinese ones like Ultra/trustfire brands experience some pretty massive voltage drops under load. With my 7up XPG lights that I was attempting to drive with a 4x18650 pack I was seeing the total pack voltage drop over 1 volt when pulling a 1.5-1.7amp load. When I moved to RC Lipo packs I was amazed at the difference... 0.05 to 0.10 volt drop under the same load!

  22. #22
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    Nice light.

    It looks like you forgot to turn the p7 on before taking the pic. Else, something must be wrong with it. With a fresh battery, my sf-15 is almost as bright as a single xml.

  23. #23
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    I'm also using that extension cable, but the original cable it's about the same gauge.
    Or maybe the cheap 18650...anyway.. the MS battery its just temporary, I was just trying to understand what was going on. I have to wire the 3s lipo I got for this light.

    rlouder.
    You know how stuff from DX is.. that P7 was on, and believe me, it is nowhere near as bright as an MS for example.
    It is still reliable and I use it as a torch around the house, or when I'm in the middle of nowhere taking photos of lights

  24. #24
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    Must admit I agree with rlouder - a P7 ought to be far, far brighter than that. What tailcap current are you getting?

    Like your light, by the way!

  25. #25
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    Double XML/ Hammond / Lauras / H6flex

    Must admit I agree with rlouder - a P7 ought to be far, far brighter than that. What tailcap current are you getting?
    I never gave much attention to that torch. I just assumed that it had some crap driver. It is not as bright as the MS, but, in the photos it does look less bright than it really is. I will make a few more beamshots just to make sure.



    Meanwhile, I made a few changes.
    I replaced the Reginas with a couple of Lauras. They were easy to assemble without the holders. Some sanding on all 4 sides and they fit inside the Hammond. All thatís necessary is to reduce from 21,4mm to 20mm. It's not very well done because I was too eager to try it out. I will try to be more patient next time.
    Also, the optics don't sit very well on the led base and I think I have one off then a little twisted. I will take them apart (they are not glued) and smooth the edges and sit them better aligned.



    Even so, I liked the beam a lot. As much throw as the Reginas and a bit more spill.

    I mounted the h6flex to the top of the Hammond and was able to reduce the enclosure to 55mm. It was a bit too long. I decided to shorten it a bit even if that means that I will have to mount a heatsink.



    This is the one that I think will do it, but if necessary I have the "hulk" that will make it the ugliest light around



    Something more about the voltage drop with the MS battery. I wired an 11.1v Lipo and tested with a 15gauge cable and couldnít find any voltage drop. Then, I wired the red 24awg cable that I was using originally and got just an 0,2v drop.
    Since is the only round and reasonable thin cable that I have, I decided to use it anyway.

    I will try to make a few beam shots in this new configuration.

  26. #26
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    btw, you guys that are using 3S lipo packs with the *flex, what levels off voltage warning and cutoff are you using??

  27. #27
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    The way I have setup my flex drivers with lipo or lilo packs is to cutoff when the pack reaches 3v * how ever many cells in series.
    So for my 3 cell packs, I have the cutoff set at 9v.
    I don't really use the warn functions yet, as most of my packs will deliver 2-3 hours of runtime, and most of my rides are around the 2 hour mark, but I am only running my lights on high for very short periods of time while descending.

    When all is said and done, I never really use up more than 50% of my packs charge at the end of a ride, as I have it on low for about 75% of my ride....which is all climbing.

    I also always ride with 2 lights, so am never really worried about being left in the dark.
    Look, whatever happens, don't fight the mountain.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by bravellir
    btw, you guys that are using 3S lipo packs with the *flex, what levels off voltage warning and cutoff are you using??
    9V cut, 9.7V warning and 10.7V (I think) 50% - calculated from the 4S example that George provides in the manual.

    I think the smaller heatsink should be more than enough, as long as there's a bit of airflow over it. Heatsinks generally work terribly by convection only (even ones designed for it) but even a tiny bit of airflow makes an enormous difference.

  29. #29
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    Thanks

    I knew I had seen an example of the levels somewhere, just couldn't find it. And I looked in the manual

    I also use 2 lights and I donít remember the last time I had an empty battery. But itís my first light with a *flex and I just have to try every little function it has

  30. #30
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    if it's there, you might as well use it, even if you never need it!

    I find the 50% warning quite useful - I only have 1 light at present and I can gauge what level I can run the light to get to the end of the ride using the 50% warning. That'll largely be moot now I've upgraded the batteries, but it's still nice to have.

  31. #31
    A waste of time it is is
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    also, if you didn't get the warning, you're good to go for next week's ride on the same track without a charge

  32. #32
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    I finally could try the light in the trails.
    It worked great. The double XMLs on the bars and the double XPGs helmet are all the light that I will ever need. I did almost the same times I do during the day.

    It was a rather cold night, about 5C and the light got warm, but only tripped the 60C thermal protection once, after a 5km/h 5 minutes climb where I forgot to switch it down to L2.

    This means that I will have to install the heatsink or it won't cope during summer.

    About the lauras, installed without the holders they have a LOT of spill and a very smooth bright center spot witch I loved.
    I stopped in an open space in the middle of the trees and it was amazing the huge area that it reaches.
    But on normal ridding all that light to the sides is just a waste. Whatís the point to light up a soccer field in front of you?
    I think I'm going to switch back to the reginas for the slightly longer throw and more contained spill.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by bravellir
    About the lauras, installed without the holders they have a LOT of spill and a very smooth bright center spot witch I loved.
    I stopped in an open space in the middle of the trees and it was amazing the huge area that it reaches.
    But on normal ridding all that light to the sides is just a waste. Whatís the point to light up a soccer field in front of you?
    I think I'm going to switch back to the reginas for the slightly longer throw and more contained spill.
    thanks for the feedback. Have you thought about one of each for the XM-L bar light? I like the XM-L + Regina but I'm not so fond of the sharp cut off from the reflector.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattthemuppet
    thanks for the feedback. Have you thought about one of each for the XM-L bar light? I like the XM-L + Regina but I'm not so fond of the sharp cut off from the reflector.
    It did cross my mind but they have different heights and I would have to shorten the regina a bit. Too much trouble since I kind of like the sharp cut off of the reginas.
    But in the end, I'm using the double xpg reginas on the helmet and both lights combine perfectly, spill and throw, so I might leave the Xmls with the lauras anyway.
    I don't know.. I can't decide

  35. #35
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    I'm glad that you are happy with your Hammond build....I think it would look cool with the silver heatsink on top Now I cant decide whether to install reagina or laura
    btwy .... What is your helmet setup? I know you have a double XPG....post a pic ....

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by bravellir
    But on normal ridding all that light to the sides is just a waste.
    In addition to being a waste, I find having details alongside me being lit up is distracting. The moving shadows cast from objects lit by a floody beam catches my eyes. I don't like it!

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by aztlan805
    I'm glad that you are happy with your Hammond build....I think it would look cool with the silver heatsink on top Now I cant decide whether to install reagina or laura
    btwy .... What is your helmet setup? I know you have a double XPG....post a pic ....
    edit: for helmet use I have no doubts. The regina is the one to choose.


    see here Has the MS Bastid killed off diy

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vancbiker
    In addition to being a waste, I find having details alongside me being lit up is distracting. The moving shadows cast from objects lit by a floody beam catches my eyes. I don't like it!
    I know what you mean. And the reflection on ST with tall vegetation itís also a problem but there you can just dimm the light a bit.

  39. #39
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    I had a problem with my light. I was riding along and suddenly one off the leds shut off and the other dimmed a lot. It was a warm night, about 20 degrees, but the light didnít cut off ( itís configured to dim at 70 degrees ). I touched the housing and it wasnít particularly hot.

    Iím not so sure that the heat was the problem, but since the Hammond housing will probably not cope with the dual xmlís at 3A during the warm summer nights without a heatsink mounted on top, I ordered a housing from Troutie and rebuild the light.

    BTW itís realy easy to assemble the light with this housing. Really easy.

    I had a little surprise in the end. When I switched the light on I was a little puzzled by the beam.
    It is square, diagonal to the body off the light and it has 3 shadows on the left.




    I soon find out that I didnít noticed this before because I usually attach the xmls straight in the housing simply because I got all of them with the starís connected in pairs and it was easy to mount them with just 2 screws than to separate them and use 4 screws. This time I separated them and mounted them like you see in the pic.



    The shadows are probably caused by the 3 wires on the xmls. I had seen them before on the light but thought that this was caused by the extrusions inside the Hammond for the screws.



    Did anyone noticed this before? The square beam and the 3 shadows? Did I get this all wrong and there is some other explanation?

    Btw, I tested the light yesterday and it performed very well. On the trail I almost didnít notice the square beam or the shadows and the housing dissipated heat very well even when riding slowly.

  40. #40
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    The shadows you see from the LED die wires is common. Some optics don't show them, others do. Put an aspheric lens over the LED and you'll project them quite clearly.

    The terrain of a trail covers up those beam artifacts quite well.

  41. #41
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    I try and put the bond wires to the top but do quite like the diamond sahpe beam too

    Bravellir.
    Ohh good it arrived .
    what do you think of the serious glue

  42. #42
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    Double XML's with Reginas look nice. For a bar lamp it looks about perfect. Right now I'm having a hard time deciding which would be better, a double XML or a double triple XP-G/E combo. Anyone care to comment? Advantages...disadvantages? Am I right in assuming a double XML @ 3A would draw more power than the 6-up? ( sorry, I'm too lazy at the moment to look it up... )

  43. #43
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    I guess this comes under 2 XM-Ls of this light thread.

    By what I see:

    Two XM-L T6s are about 20.1 W at 3 amp and about 1820 lumens total based on CREE data (not including driver).
    3 XP-G R5s and 3 XP-E R3s all at 1 A are about 20.7 W and 1870 lumens total based on CREE data (not including driver).
    Comparable unless a separate driver @1.2-1.5 A is used on the XP-Gs.
    YMMV as both Vf and Output vary from the charts.

    So it looks like the real question is what does a 3 XP-G and 3 XP-E pair with best bar-light optics look like compared to a double Regina XM-L T6 pair. I suspect close enough that the choice is a subjective thing.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by troutie-mtb
    I try and put the bond wires to the top but do quite like the diamond sahpe beam too

    Bravellir.
    Ohh good it arrived .
    what do you think of the serious glue
    Got everything Wednesday, thank you.
    I'm liking the serious glue. Only used it to secure the lauras temporarily. Placed only a drop in each corner of each optic and it hold fine during Thursday ride. And it was really easy to remove the glue yesterday.
    It remains flexible which is great for most applications. It takes some time to set which gives you time to adjust. It has a good consistency (pretty much like silicone).

    About the beam, yep, in the trail it was very usable. I think I'm going to keep like it is..

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by frummaCymngaf
    I recommend to you to look for a site where there will be many articles on a theme interesting you.



    Had a look at your sig link didnt see how to switch the lights on or the battery specs.
    Nipple lights not much use in the UK too cold .

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