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  1. #1
    Killer b.
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    Double L332MC build.

    Hey all.
    I posted up my first effort on Quazzle's thread, but much like Chelboed I thought I'd start a new thread for this build. I built the last one for my brother, but I wasn't that enthused about the final result. So after being inspired by Ed's dual regina build, I did a bit of a re-design to streamline things.
    Work and family commitments mean I do most of my riding at night, and I decided I wanted my lights permanently mounted on a new helmet. So far I have turned up the light-heads, and next step is to do the mounting. I'm going to put them on the visor so I can use screws. In the event of a bad crash the visor should rip off without punching anything through the helmet itself. Then the wiring will go inside the helmet to two individual switches and a plug mounted in the back of the helmet..... Well that's the plan anyway.

    So, two light-heads, one XPG board and one XPE board... both MC, but individually switched. Excessive? Of course, but hey, why not? Obviously they both need to be very light weight, but I also wanted to maximize the heat sink. The fins are 1mm thick and 6mm deep. Possibly a bit close together but I think it will work.

    Photo time:
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Double L332MC build.-img_1509.jpg  

    Double L332MC build.-img_1517.jpg  

    Double L332MC build.-img_1518.jpg  

    Double L332MC build.-img_1524.jpg  

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  2. #2
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    Artful, B...artful!

    I'm jealous!

    What are you going to do for power?

    You could check into those "long-C" 4000mAh cells that I used to build my last LiIon pack. 4 of those would be plenty.

  3. #3
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    First B really nice work!!!

    How will you mount them. I like them separated like car lights or something. reminds me of a version of the led hat lights also except this will be waaaaay brighter...;-)

    Chelboed, what is the number for the long-C cells?
    "mountain biking and flyfishing, what more do you want?" - Yeah, I said it

  4. #4
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    They're at batteryspace.com...26650 LiMnNi.

    4000mAh

  5. #5
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    They are cool batteries, but they might have some drawbacks.
    Have thought about buying them, but this thread has made me wary of them.
    Other long term opinions or experiences with these would be nice to hear about.

  6. #6
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    Very nice! What's the weight on the housing?

    I'd try and push them to the edge of the visor. You might get a shadow from the brim, since they are set back and sitting directly on the visor.

    You know what they say, "idle hands are the devil's tools"...

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by odtexas
    They are cool batteries, but they might have some drawbacks.
    Have thought about buying them, but this thread has made me wary of them.
    Other long term opinions or experiences with these would be nice to hear about.

    Yah...but since the current draw will be so low...they'll last much longer. + their really cheap! The OP of that thread saw 'little, if any' difference after 32 days of use. I hope he comes back w/ a 6 mo graph.

    I don't have much of a way to do all that crap, so I can just say that "such'n'such" battery powered "such'n'such" light for "so'long".

  8. #8
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    Often a little more technical over on CPF. I am happy with the 18650 Li-ion, but these seem like a good alternative. Just wondering if anyone here has long term experience with them.
    You just got yours. But if the LiMnNi drop down to the level of a li-ion within a year and the then I would stick with the li-ion. Not saying that they do, but it was a concern.

  9. #9
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    bshallard, Very nice where are you planning to put the driver ?

    Can I ask what quick change tool post you have on your lathe is it an A 2 Z ?

  10. #10
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    Hi guys.
    To answer some questions:
    I will post up pics of the mounting as it progresses, but the lights will have to stay in the channels shown. The outer channels are angled too much and I would have to mount them individually, and too high up. After buying the helmet I realized the visor was actually a very difficult shape to work with. They will share a common, tilt adjustable mount.
    I don't have small scales, so I don't know what the weight is yet. I might see if the jeweller across the road has some scales I can use.
    I have ordered a MagicShine battery pack and charger from Dapedealer on ebay. My weekly night rides top out at 1hr 20mins so even running full power I should get through the ride with both on, but realistically I'll only need the XPE for going downhill. If I want a longer run time it will be a simple matter to run a second pack in parallel.

    Right now I'd better sit down and get some real work done. The bills won't pay themselves, and I've spent a lot of time lately stuffing about with this.

    blair.
    Last edited by The Understater; 06-30-2010 at 03:20 AM.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by yetibetty
    bshallard, Very nice where are you planning to put the driver ?

    Can I ask what quick change tool post you have on your lathe is it an A 2 Z ?

    Hi betty.
    This is designed around Quazzle's triple XPG/XPE boards with the leds mounted on the driver.
    Re the tool post, no. I have a couple of aluminium QCTPs in a drawer, but they always flex far too much for my liking, and the repeatable accuracy is crap. This one was built by some ebay seller. I could be wrong, but I think he went by the name "Fastboatfreak". I bought it in '06, so my memory may be faulty. It is made of stainless, and it has quite big pistons, so it holds the tool holders really securely and has absolutely zero flex! When I bought it I also asked him to make me several extra tool holders, which he kindly did.
    I haven't used the A2Z tool post, but I'm pretty sure this one is far superior. Lucky me eh?

    b.
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  12. #12
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    Sorry I read too fast and the toolpost picture took over my mind. Should have realized it was for the Quazzle board as I've already seen your gear like bezel version.

    I may have to try the A2Z if I can't find better.

  13. #13
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    impressive work, bshallard, congratulations! Looks slick

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by quazzle
    impressive work, bshallard, congratulations! Looks slick
    Thanks Quazzle. I trust you're enjoying your holiday?

    I've cobbled up a mount for it. It isn't finished, as I still need to drill and thread the underneath to fit a grub screw. When I get the tilt just right I'll do up the screw nice and tight and leave it alone. I also need to make up some longer mounting screws (which you can't see in the photos). I under-estimated how thick the plastic visor is.

    I'm thinking black anodized for the mount which should help minimize its appearance, and scarlet red for the light heads.

    Still don't know the weight, but I put the helmet on before rushing home from work and couldn't feel any weight from the light. I had thought maybe it would feel a bit front heavy, but it's all good.

    b.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Double L332MC build.-img_1534.jpg  

    Double L332MC build.-img_1535.jpg  

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  15. #15
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    Crap!!!!! Crap, crap!!!

    That's smooth, man...dayadgum!

    Diggin!




    How are they attached to the lateral rotary girdir...thing...there?

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by chelboed
    Crap!!!!! Crap, crap!!!

    That's smooth, man...dayadgum!

    Diggin!




    How are they attached to the lateral rotary girdir...thing...there?
    Thanks mate.
    You mean the cross bar? Simple. I threaded each end and screwed the housings onto it. It took a bit of trimming on the lathe turning back the shoulders so when tight, the lights are both facing the same direction. Once I get it all fired up and test-ridden I will decide whether to point the XPE head slightly higher or not, and I'll secure them both with some loc-tite.

    b.
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  17. #17
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    Ah, but how heavy is it?

    Just paid a visit to the jewelers over the road to use their scales. My camera battery is flat, so you'll have to take my word for it, but the weight for everything so far, including mounting, is 64.8 grams.

    b.
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  18. #18
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    Looking very slick. Will you do the anodizing yourself or sending it off?

  19. #19
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    Are you going to try to hold a battery up w/ your steroid enhanced neck (LOL) or will you be dropping a battery in the ol' Camelbak?

    What is your plan for a battery anyhoo?

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by yetibetty
    Looking very slick. Will you do the anodizing yourself or sending it off?

    While it's tempting to play around with the anodizing, I have neither the space nor the inclination to have a container of sulphuric acid sitting around in the workshop, and there's no way in hades that my wife is going to let me have one at home either. So I'll let the professionals handle this one.

    b.
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by chelboed
    Are you going to try to hold a battery up w/ your steroid enhanced neck (LOL) or will you be dropping a battery in the ol' Camelbak?

    What is your plan for a battery anyhoo?
    Got me a couple of MagicShine batteries, chargers and cables off ebay. One each for me and my brother. I'm thinking if I don't get the run-time I want out of one, I can always hook up another in parallel. I will either put the battery in my camelbak or in my shorts pocket. I'm just trying to figure out my switch arrangement at the moment. I bought a couple of small toggle switches, but couldn't get the water resistant cover to go with them, but now I'm thinking about maybe something more like what you made with the tiny push switches. Being in New Zealand isn't helping there. I went to Jaycar this morning but the guy I was dealing with there didn't know his..... well you know. Gonna saunter up to another electronics shop when I get some lunch... right about now in fact.

    b.
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by bshallard
    While it's tempting to play around with the anodizing, I have neither the space nor the inclination to have a container of sulphuric acid sitting around in the workshop, and there's no way in hades that my wife is going to let me have one at home either. So I'll let the professionals handle this one.

    b.
    It's not that bad. Plus you have a fire extiguisher hanging there in the back ground. That tells me you are prepared for excitement.

    It is alot of small supplies and anodizing gets as addictive as building. Lots of colors out there to try out.

    Keep up the very nice builds.....

  23. #23
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    According to the tests by Quazzle...I'd venture to speculate around 1.2-1.5hrs on a MS battery.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by chelboed
    According to the tests by Quazzle...I'd venture to speculate around 1.2-1.5hrs on a MS battery.
    That's about what I figured. I'm switching them individually so I don't have to run full power all the time. Not really much point having 2000 odd lumens going uphill eh? Of course Cosmoworks might care to disagree on that point.

    b.
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    ^^ Nah I'll agree with you. But only for the sake of conserving run-time.

    odtexas is spot in. Anodizing is really easier than you think. There are some trick's to the trade, but the general process is worth giving it a shot. Awesome lights, and surface finishes you're getting off the small lathe.. props!!

  26. #26
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    Love the revolver cylinder flutes! Sorry if I missed it in another thread, but what lathe/mill are you using?

  27. #27
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    Thanks for the comments.
    The lathe is a long-bed Sherline, and the mill is a Taig with Sherline CNC rotary table. Both American made units, and very, very capable machines for their size. My only beef is that Taig don't offer a metric option, which would make my life so much easier. I also have a Beale Tools collet closer on the Sherline using Chinese ER32 collets. I can hold up to 20mm diameter parts, and the extra length of the closer allows me to hold reasonably long parts that otherwise would not go through the bore of the lathe headstock. The only problem is that the closer cantilevers a long way off the headstock and compromises rigidity.
    Regarding surface finish, well I'm using Rapid-Tap aluminum cutting fluid, and a replaceable carbide lathe tip optimized for aluminum, which both help make a smooth cut. Then I finish it with the remains of a worn out satin finish buff, normally used for graining watch cases and bracelets. It is very like scotch-bright but much finer. Truth told I was surprised how nice a finish I was getting.

    Edit: Just realized what .40AET meant by revolver cylinder flutes. Yeah, they are just cosmetic, and I hadn't made the revolver connection until you pointed it out. I was just trying to break up the roundness of the design.
    b.
    Last edited by The Understater; 07-02-2010 at 03:17 PM.
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  28. #28
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    Time for a thread bump.

    I've been wondering about the wiring for a while, and although I'm sure some will accuse me of buggering up my thermal path, I've decided to run the wire straight down the middle and out the back of the housing. I reckon the thermal path will be fine, and this way just works out so darn tidy. I had been wracking my brains to come up with a tidy switching system to mount at the back of the helmet, and finally decided on the trail-tech inline switch from batteryspace. I had been putting off any purchases from batteryspace because of the shipping charges,(US$50) but my employee has a friend coming from the States in two weeks, so he can bring them. Anyway, playing around with a Magicshine extension lead I found that drilling 3.5mm allowed a very tight fit of the cable housing. With a bit of silicone spray I can eventually push it through the bore, and that takes care of both water resistance and strain relief.
    As you can see from the pictures, I have milled out slots with just enough room for the inner wires to lay underneath the led board and surface in the right place. The last photo shows all the pieces together. Tomorrow it goes off for anodizing.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Double L332MC build.-sv400260.jpg  

    Double L332MC build.-sv400264.jpg  

    Double L332MC build.-sv400266.jpg  

    Double L332MC build.-sv400269.jpg  

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  29. #29
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    Back from the anodizers.

    Got my stuff back from the anodizers this morning. In a way I kind of miss the bare alloy look, but I'm still pretty pleased with the overall appearance..
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Double L332MC build.-sv400271.jpg  

    Double L332MC build.-sv400272.jpg  

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  30. #30
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    Looking great and there had to be some watch parts involved

    I think I'll have to have my next build anodized

  31. #31
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    Quick Q...why two lenses per barrel?

  32. #32
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    Um, lense and O ring?

  33. #33
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    Oh, and looks good baby shallard

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by chelboed
    Quick Q...why two lenses per barrel?
    There aren't. There is a lens and a nylon seal per barrel. I have machined in a seating for the seal, and the lens is a press fit into that seal.... exactly like a watch, since Yetibetty is right, and they are watch parts. I will use thermal grease rather than adhesive on the boards,drop in the optics, and then press the lens in on top of them. This should make for an easy upgrade path when Quazzle updates his boards with whatever super duper leds Cree introduces next. To remove the lenses I will have to super-glue something to them and pull them out. Should be easy enough.

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  35. #35
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    Looks great. If those "revolver" things were silver it would be pimp

  36. #36
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    Great looking lights. Do the seals get glued to the body of the light and then the watch crystals pressed into the seals?

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by HuffyPuffy
    Great looking lights. Do the seals get glued to the body of the light and then the watch crystals pressed into the seals?
    No need. This works the same as a watch. The seal sits in a machined seating, and the glass pushes into the seal. The seals are designed a fraction over-thickness so the glass is a tight press fit. Watches with over 200m water resistance use exactly this system.
    Last edited by The Understater; 07-19-2010 at 10:02 PM.
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  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by chelboed
    Yah...but since the current draw will be so low...they'll last much longer. + their really cheap! The OP of that thread saw 'little, if any' difference after 32 days of use. I hope he comes back w/ a 6 mo graph.

    I don't have much of a way to do all that crap, so I can just say that "such'n'such" battery powered "such'n'such" light for "so'long".

    I did graph the cells again and it showed if I recall correctly a 300mah loss but at $12 a cell nothing beats in in capacity right now.

    Mac

  39. #39
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    Excellent!

  40. #40
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    Following a phone conversation this afternoon I've put up a cad drawing with the exact measurements of my design. Maybe no-one will, and that will be fine, but if anyone wants to use it, then go right ahead. Most of it is pretty basic and can be done on the lathe, except for the flutes which are just cosmetic anyway. Just remember this is an as-yet untested design.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Double L332MC build.-light-head-final.jpg  

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    Nice diagram ..... and very nice looking design, both anodized and plain!

    Sorry to add to questions about the way the watch glass seals work, but this seems such a neat method that I think it's important that I understand the way it works fully. I don't know anything about watch glasses!

    Quote Originally Posted by bshallard
    No need. This works the same as a watch. The seal sits in a machined seating, and the glass pushes into the seal. The seals are designed a fraction over-thickness so the glass is a tight press fit. Watches with over 200m water resistance use exactly this system.
    I noticed in the shot with the watch glass packet that it says 20 0 x 0.8 (or 20.0 x 0.8?), so does this size seal fit exactly in a 21mm recess, or is it a little loose at first? Does the glass sort of squash the sealing ring out to fill out the 21mm fully and there is just friction holding everything in place? If so, this seems slightly easier than machining a groove for an o-ring, like chelboed did (and others).

    Because the glass watch parts and seal are so small, and we can't see the profile of the seal it's hard to see exactly how the two parts fit together ........ any chance of a simple detail diagram of just the metal, seal, glass interface area? Please!

  42. #42
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    Bobblehat the numbering on the packets don't bother with decimal points, so yes, it means 20.0mm x 0.8mm. The seals are sized to fit a 21mm seating exactly. Following this method means being able to machine close to a hundredth of a mm accuracy, but that is well within the capabilities of most lathes and as long as your set-up is rigid it shouldn't be too difficult. The glass and seal are chamfered at the edges and the glass is a tight press fit.... probably about .03-.05mm interference fit. You do have to be very careful to press the glass in straight. I won't be able to use my usual glass press for this one, so I will probably use the tailstock ram on my lathe as a makeshift press when the time comes. As stated before, once in, the glasses will be quite difficult to remove. I think gluing something to them and pulling them out will work, but if not I can always shatter them with a centre punch... possibly damaging the optics in the process.
    I wanted to do it this way because it I could make it super-clean in appearance, with as small a diameter housing as possible and with no retaining clips or seals obscuring the edge of the optics. I am supplying another local DIYer with glasses and seals, but if you're outside New Zealand, then you'll need to find yourself a watchmaker.

    Here's the close-up you asked for.
    Edit: I never drew in the chamfers on the glass or seal..... Try to imagine them.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Double L332MC build.-light-head-close-up.jpg  

    Last edited by The Understater; 07-23-2010 at 03:49 AM.
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  43. #43
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    Thanks for that bshallard .... I can see clearly how it works now.

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    Thanks for the diagrams, this is a really cool idea which I'd imagine would work just as well if the glass were pushed in from the back, into a faceplate. I had been considering using o-rings or making my own o-rings for a design, but o-rings take up a good deal of real estate which these watch crystal seals would not.

    I'll have to take a close look at my seiko diver next time I get it out and see if I can see the seal around the edge.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by HuffyPuffy
    Thanks for the diagrams, this is a really cool idea which I'd imagine would work just as well if the glass were pushed in from the back, into a faceplate. I had been considering using o-rings or making my own o-rings for a design, but o-rings take up a good deal of real estate which these watch crystal seals would not.

    I'll have to take a close look at my seiko diver next time I get it out and see if I can see the seal around the edge.
    Pushing into a faceplate from the back was my first idea.... see Quazzle's thread. I think it would work on a lot of designs. You probably won't see the seal on your dive watch. The bezel will be clipped on over the top of the seal. You should see it on almost any other water resistant watch though. This is the standard system for holding in the glass. Occasionally they use glue instead, but only on dress watches not designed to get wet, or cheap fashion watches.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bshallard
    ... Just remember this is an as-yet untested design.
    My four R5 MC triples arrived in the country yesterday (thank you Q!). I'll send two of them up to you as soon as they arrive. Those babies need to be tested!

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark2c
    My four R5 MC triples arrived in the country yesterday (thank you Q!). I'll send two of them up to you as soon as they arrive. Those babies need to be tested!

    Woohoo! Thanks mate!

    I just got off the phone with my supplier. As I suspected, they didn't have many sapphire glasses in stock, but four will be with you in a couple of day and the rest are on back-order.

    Ole.
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  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by bshallard
    I will use thermal grease rather than adhesive on the boards,drop in the optics, and then press the lens in on top of them.
    First of all - great design! Wish I had the tools and skills do to this..

    I'm sure this is paranoia talking, but:
    Regarding fastening the board to the heatsink: Wouldn't it be best to have a (small) preload between the board and the heatsink if they're not glued together, to ensure proper contact?
    Assuming of course that the lens is just held in place by the nylon seal, and not pushed towards the optic..

  49. #49
    Killer b.
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    Quote Originally Posted by langen
    First of all - great design! Wish I had the tools and skills do to this..

    I'm sure this is paranoia talking, but:
    Regarding fastening the board to the heatsink: Wouldn't it be best to have a (small) preload between the board and the heatsink if they're not glued together, to ensure proper contact?
    Assuming of course that the lens is just held in place by the nylon seal, and not pushed towards the optic..
    Incorrect assumption. The lens is pushed hard up against the optic. Look closely at the close-up diagram. The bore for the board and optic is very slightly oversize. The dotted line marks the 20mm point. Without the optics in place the lens would push right past the seal and rattle around inside that cavity. It'll all be nice and tight in there.

    b.
    Posting on the basis that ignorance shared is ignorance doubled.

  50. #50
    Bigger is better!
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    I understand that the lens has a tight fit towards the optic when it is installed, but I can't see how the lens can exert a force in the horizontal direction on the optic, after it is installed?

    But - as long as the lens doesn't move out again, it will, as you say, stay nice and tight in there

    Again - not trying to discredit your design or anything, but being an engineer, I tend to over-analyse things...

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