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  1. #1
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    Direct to copper 20mm triples

    thought this was pretty cool - the direct to copper revolution is coming to 20mm triples for the 4 people that use them in bike lights I'm really impressed how the same star can be set up for parallel or series, which is really cool

    Noctigon 20mm copper triple XPG/XPE/XTE coming soon! | BudgetLightForum.com

    they'll be offered with XP-G2/ E2 at the very least, although hopefully they'll sell them bare so we can stick whatever we want on there

  2. #2
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    Direct to copper 20mm triples

    Thanks Matt. The ability to wire in series or in parallel is neat. Am I right in thinking each led is individually addressable? Either way a triple xp-g2 on 20mm is just what I am looking for. Shame my dynamo only produces 0.5A

  3. #3
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    no worries. The LEDs aren't individually addressable unless you cut some traces and scrape some of the screen off to make solder pads.

    here's the product link
    Noctigon 3XP Advanced Triple LED Copper MCPCB (2 pcs) [Noctigon 3XP board] - $5.98 : Led Flashlight-International Outdoor Store

    I'm not sure 0.5A per LED would really justify a star like this because the gains from direct to copper tend to be at higher currents/ temperatures. 20mm triples are pretty dense from an energy point of view though..

  4. #4
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    Well, I can see a copper heatsink/light body , tripple board soldered to the heatsink, XP-E2@2A Carclo 10517. All mounted on a helmet.

  5. #5
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    the vision is strong with this one

    I agree, solder star to host then reflow LEDs to star (which would take a fair bit of heat) would make for almost the best thermal path you can get. Of'roadbent loves his triple XP-E helmet light and I recent reflowed him a parallel triple with 1 XP-E2 and 2 XP-G2 which he really likes for a running/ snow shoe light.

    Being able to run it parallel certainly makes driver and battery choice a whole lot easier. Also lets you make different batteries for different situations - a single cell battery for a quick ride, or multiple cells in parallel for longer rides/ endurance racing.

  6. #6
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    Yes, parallel boards make it really simple battery vise, but mixing XP-E2 and XP-G2 on a prallel board isn't really a good thing since the Vfs are pretty much different at the same drive current. Soldering the board direct to a heatsink should't be that much of a problem. Some soldering paste and blow torch and lots of patience should do. I'd reflow the board and the LEDs at the same time. When the LEDs set the board would to for sure. Just have to make sure to cool all together really quick since there'll be some mass to hold the heat.

  7. #7
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    I think different Vf emitters in parallel is a problem at high shared drive currents as you risk one or more of the LEDs getting more current than they can cope with, but if you keep things reasonable it seems fine. Of'roadbent is running his triple at 3A, so a theoretical 1A per emitter, which is pretty sane. In his case, the XP-G2s might be getting 1.1 - 1.2A each and the XP-E2 0.6 - 0.8A each. No idea if that's really the case as the math makes my head hurt but it won't kill it. Might not get you what you want either, but that's a separate issue

  8. #8
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    I have in my hot little hands the following



    These are intended for my next dynamo light build, but that is on hold while I get my head around automatic switching.

    While I am mulling that conundrum over, I thought I might do some testing on the various leds to see how they compare in practice. Sadly I have neither a benchtop power supply nor a fancy taskled driver, so I was thinking of wiring each of the triples up in parallel , putting them in some easy2led housings & using a 3A driver & 2s2p battery pack.

    In theory each of the triples should produce more than the XM-L at the same power level, but what I am thinking of is the extent of any observable difference in light & or beam pattern.

    Would love to try running the two triple XP-G2s at 1.5A per LED, but haven't yet figured out how to do that with the bits & bobs I have lying about

  9. #9
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    holy cow, that'll be one hell of a dynamo light! So you're aiming for 3000lm+ OTF?

    Testing idea sounds great, although I'd just screw each triple down to a large block of aluminium or similar metal, then you can switch over optics or compare 2 triples at the same time.

    If you want to try 1.5A per LED, wire them in parallel and stack some AMC7135 chips on top of a 3A Nanjg driver until you get the current you want. It'll be interesting to see how the non-copper triple(s) fair at that current level - you may find Vf rises too high to stay in regulation with a linear driver. You might also find a sense resister that you can change on that DX driver, although it may already be somewhat at it's current limit already.

  10. #10
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    Could you drive one of these triples with a 2.8A AMC7135 driver? Series or parallel? 2s2p battery?

    I have a older XP-G triple driven at 1A with a LuxDrive BuckPuck, it has no levels just all on full or off.

  11. #11
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    ops: should have made clear - lights are for my 2 commuter bikes. I expect the noctigon will be overkill at 0.5A, but as it was virtually the same price as the cutter triple & said to be same bin & tint & I thought why not have some fun before putting it to work. Same reason for the XP-E2 - don't need it, but people have stated they have better throw & so wanted to see what difference it makes. The LuxRC 333 will remain battery driven & already had the XM-L lying around.

    I do love the way you calmly suggest stacking AMC7135 chips - a bit beyond my comfort zone atm. The cutter is individually addressable & I think I may be able to wire the noctigon that way too so I could drive each led with a 4xAMC7135 driver - good thing we know a bloke who sells ones that can be repurposed for rear lights :wink:

  12. #12
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    I have some noctigon triples on order. I'll be driving them at up to 3A but at 4.2v.
    I'm planning on upgrading one of my old XML lights with a short optic that is too floody.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by find_bruce View Post
    ops: should have made clear - lights are for my 2 commuter bikes. I expect the noctigon will be overkill at 0.5A, but as it was virtually the same price as the cutter triple & said to be same bin & tint & I thought why not have some fun before putting it to work. Same reason for the XP-E2 - don't need it, but people have stated they have better throw & so wanted to see what difference it makes. The LuxRC 333 will remain battery driven & already had the XM-L lying around.

    I do love the way you calmly suggest stacking AMC7135 chips - a bit beyond my comfort zone atm. The cutter is individually addressable & I think I may be able to wire the noctigon that way too so I could drive each led with a 4xAMC7135 driver - good thing we know a bloke who sells ones that can be repurposed for rear lights :wink:
    ah yes, that makes things a bit clearer

    stacking chips really isn't as hard as you think. Just bend down the 2 outside legs very carefully with a pair of tweezers, tin those 2 legs and the big tab at the back, then just solder! If you can solder LED wires to one of those Nanjg drivers you're already good enough to solder chips.

    driving them individually would work too, especially with a master-slave(s) set up where one board controls the other 2. That way you'll get modes and all the other goodies.

  14. #14
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    not to hijack topic, but are you tying to auto 'switch LEDS' or boost caps??

    my bench power supply is just a old computer power supply, find one of them and you got 3.3v (great for DD leds) 5v, 12, 24v (using the -12 rail), or open your current computer, grab out the one of the plugs with the yellow black black red wires on it, and you got 12v and 5v, grab a LM317 for a simple current reg design, put a pot in it for adj sweep. you can 't hurt it if you short is it just re-sets...

    XPG-2 have a issue with the optics you have, as the dome is bigger on the XPG2, the dome can get damaged when you do up the lens , I have had them fail, and have had go back to using XPGs, with the carclo optics. i have a few auto switching methods sorted, PM me so not to hyjack this thread...K


    Quote Originally Posted by find_bruce View Post
    I have in my hot little hands the following



    These are intended for my next dynamo light build, but that is on hold while I get my head around automatic switching.

    While I am mulling that conundrum over, I thought I might do some testing on the various leds to see how they compare in practice. Sadly I have neither a benchtop power supply nor a fancy taskled driver, so I was thinking of wiring each of the triples up in parallel , putting them in some easy2led housings & using a 3A driver & 2s2p battery pack.

    In theory each of the triples should produce more than the XM-L at the same power level, but what I am thinking of is the extent of any observable difference in light & or beam pattern.

    Would love to try running the two triple XP-G2s at 1.5A per LED, but haven't yet figured out how to do that with the bits & bobs I have lying about

  15. #15
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    Thanks for your kind offer & the tip re using the PC power supply - like most people I have at least a couple of those lying around. Will send you a pm re auto switching.

    On the question of optics, thanks for the heads up. I just had a quick look and the satu optics don't quite fit on the XP-G2 - sitting proud, presumably held up by the dome and is a tight fit on the XP-E2 & some red XP-Es I have as well. The carclo looks like it fits fine but will look at it more carefully before assembly.

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