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  1. #1
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    Battery packs, chargers, Balancing etc

    Ok i touched on this subject with ortelius in the battery for lflex thread, but didnt want to hijack the thread any more than i have done..

    At the moment i use turboferrets 18650 holders with cheap trustfire cells, now that I've been building some juice sucking lights i need to advance on my battery packs..

    I know i can buy 18650's with solder tabs, if i want to build for example a 14.8v 5000mah pack i will need 8 18650's 4S2P.
    Do i simply solder the pack together? is heat an issue here?

    Im assuming i would use non protected cells if i was to use a balancing charger?
    advice on chargers would be great, so far i've looked at these
    http://www.giantcod.co.uk/power-bala...-p-402624.html
    http://www.giantcod.co.uk/icharger-1...-p-404527.html
    http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...idProduct=5606

    How do i wire in balance leads? what do i need?
    which connectors do i need? JST? can i wire a JST to a RCA or jack plug?

    What are advisable charge rates?

    Cheers
    Last edited by Goldigger; 01-24-2011 at 05:55 AM.

  2. #2
    Drinkin' the 29er KoolAid
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldigger
    Ok i ouched on this subject with ortelius in the battery for lflex thread, but didnt want to hijack the thread any more than i have done..

    At the moment i use turboferrets 18650 holders with cheap trustfire cells, now that I've been building some juice sucking lights i need to advance on my battery packs..

    I know i can buy 18650's with solder tabs, if i want to build for example a 14.8v 5000mah pack i will need 8 18650's 4S2P.
    Do i simply solder the pack together? is heat an issue here?

    Im assuming i would use non protected cells if i was to use a balancing charger?
    advice on chargers would be great, so far i've looked at these
    http://www.giantcod.co.uk/power-bala...-p-402624.html
    http://www.giantcod.co.uk/icharger-1...-p-404527.html
    http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...idProduct=5606

    How do i wire in balance leads? what do i need?
    which connectors do i need? JST? can i wire a JST to a RCA or jack plug?

    What are advisable charge rates?

    Cheers
    Have you considered moving to using LiPo packs?

    I found 18650 cells (at least the cheapie Ultra/Trustfire type) just aren't up to the task of driving high current loads without significant voltage sag. I was running 4x18650 on my 7 up lights in the beginning but because of the voltage sag it was pretty much impossible to set the voltage monitoring of the Maxflex driver to tell you anything useful.

    I quickly discovered the joys of LiPo packs and balance chargers and haven't looked back. My current favorite battery is a 4s (14.8v) 5000mah Turnigy brand battery: http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=9177

  3. #3
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    I've noticed that on my tripple P7, it doesnt take long for the stat led to start blinking at me!

    How do the Turnigy brand compare to say the panasonic 18650's?
    Turnigy 14.8v 5000mah for $29.99 seems very cheap??
    Has anybody in th UK ordered from Hobbyking? I'm concerned off being hit with import tax and VAT, but i do notice they have a german warehouse that stocks some parts..
    Hobbyking have the iMAX B8 charger for 21.46, cheapest in the uk is arounfd 95!

    I've also noticed there seem to be some fake imax chargers kicking about on DX and BestOfferBuy
    Last edited by Goldigger; 01-24-2011 at 05:45 AM.

  4. #4
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    Goldigger
    I bought these charger and 2 lipos from Hobbyking:
    http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store...dProduct=11444
    http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store...idProduct=9437
    LiPos are exact 5000 mAh, and charger works great (for $35).
    P.S. But I'm not in UK, so can't say anything about taxes.

  5. #5
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    Hello,
    I saw this on their web site : "European customers can now enjoy shipping from our German warehouse on some of our items." LiPo bags must be very safely protected against puncture, short circuit, over charge, deep discharge....You can find videos with a RC plane with a LiPo fire after a Earth bump, or hard touch. Low temp. now outside, but I prefer other heating stuff.
    Cheers

  6. #6
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    For DIY batteries, it's best to look what the professionals are doing and try to do that cheaper/better. So if you survey what every major bike light company is doing today (in addition to every laptop, and other high powered electronics...), you'll see they are making soldered battery packs with unprotected18650 Li-Ion cells with a single protection board.

    As one should learn from recent recalls, finding a good supplier of cells is paramount. You'll want good quality cells matched from the same reliable source. Stick with the big name brands such as Sanyo, Samsung, LG, etc. I don't know about laptops but none of the bike light companies is doing balanced chargers, this includes Lupine. If balancing is not needed on $1000 top-of-the-line and over-engineered German lighting systems, it must not be important. Honestly, I wouldn't worry about it.

    Speaking of which, if you read up on Lupine's site, Panasonic took over Sanyo but the Sanyo cells are still better in the current range we are using for bike lights and they said that even the Panasonic NCR cells don't meet their specs. It's an interesting read:

    http://www.lupine.de/web/en/technology/battery/li-ion

    On the charger, I have the Thunder AC6 and it works great. I would recommend using a charger that uses an AC input so you can just plug it into the wall socket instead of a clamping to a car battery as most RC hobby charger are designed. This is a bit more expensive with the built-in power supply but a lot less hassle and much safer than the DC to DC charger.

    I bought the charger from HobbyPartz.com and loose cells from BatterySpace.com but I don't know what's available on your side of the pond.

    Good luck.
    Long Live Long Rides

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Homebrew
    For DIY batteries, it's best to look what the professionals are doing and try to do that cheaper/better. So if you survey what every major bike light company is doing today (in addition to every laptop, and other high powered electronics...), you'll see they are making soldered battery packs with unprotected18650 Li-Ion cells with a single protection board.

    As one should learn from recent recalls, finding a good supplier of cells is paramount. You'll want good quality cells matched from the same reliable source. Stick with the big name brands such as Sanyo, Samsung, LG, etc. I don't know about laptops but none of the bike light companies is doing balanced chargers, this includes Lupine. If balancing is not needed on $1000 top-of-the-line and over-engineered German lighting systems, it must not be important. Honestly, I wouldn't worry about it.

    Speaking of which, if you read up on Lupine's site, Panasonic took over Sanyo but the Sanyo cells are still better in the current range we are using for bike lights and they said that even the Panasonic NCR cells don't meet their specs. It's an interesting read:

    http://www.lupine.de/web/en/technology/battery/li-ion

    On the charger, I have the Thunder AC6 and it works great. I would recommend using a charger that uses an AC input so you can just plug it into the wall socket instead of a clamping to a car battery as most RC hobby charger are designed. This is a bit more expensive with the built-in power supply but a lot less hassle and much safer than the DC to DC charger.

    I bought the charger from HobbyPartz.com and loose cells from BatterySpace.com but I don't know what's available on your side of the pond.

    Good luck.
    The GT Power V5 i linked to in my above posts has a DC power socket do i can use a mains adaptor...so noy a problem there http://www.4-max.co.uk/pdf/GTP-V5manual.pdf

    I was planing to use sanyo or samsung 18650's to build my packs..

    cheers

  8. #8
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    Smudge uses Samsung cells in his packs
    http://www.mtbbatteries.co.uk/index.html

    I am sure he would sell you just the cells if you wanted to build your own packs .

  9. #9
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    Where can I order the Sanyo or Samsung cells from - 2600 mah or more would be nice ? I only know this place whre you can get panassonic ones.

    cheers

  10. #10
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    save your precious time, no hassle/headaches
    ........ Lipo is the way forward !
    here`s my 6S 3Ah....

    ...Scun.thorpe, UK

  11. #11
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    I really like my Thunder AC6 too, I'm hoping to build up a new 3S LiPo pack with balance wires tonight, then I can check out the balance charging function.

    Balance charging doesn't seem to be essential, but if you can, why not?

    I'd argue that major light manufacturers aren't supplying balance lead equipped packs and suitable chargers because of the increased cost and potential customer problems with more complex equipment. Now, whether this means that there is no benefit to balance charging, a small benefit that is outweighed by the cost increase or a large benefit that the companies don't want to pay for (especially as they benefit by supplying replacement packs) I'm no where near qualified enough to answer

  12. #12
    Bigger is better!
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    To me, it seems like the whole of CPF agrees that AW cells are the best:

    For example this thread:
    http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...d.php?t=246381

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by HEY HEY ITS HENDO
    save your precious time, no hassle/headaches
    ........ Lipo is the way forward !
    here`s my 6S 3Ah....

    What charger are you using HHIH?
    where did you get it from? + the lipo?

    Cheers

  14. #14
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    ... ebay!, turnigy accucell 6 charger
    paid monday, got em thursday...
    http://stores.ebay.co.uk/wingsnrotor...=p4634.c0.m322

    [EDIT] HERE TOO..http://stores.ebay.co.uk/rapid-model...=p4634.c0.m322
    ...Scun.thorpe, UK

  15. #15
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    HHIH...Do you have any issues using the lipo's with a lupine light or is that just a lupine bottle you use?

  16. #16
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    yes empty lupine bottles are available,
    it seemed an easy and logical solution to house the chunky lipo battery
    just recharge through the Deans connector which i fitted
    you wouldn`t have to open up the cap and connect the balance plug every charge either,
    I can`t see as there would be any issues running Lupine lights on Lipo instead of li-ion!
    ...Scun.thorpe, UK

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by HEY HEY ITS HENDO
    ... ebay!, turnigy accucell 6 charger
    paid monday, got em thursday...
    http://stores.ebay.co.uk/wingsnrotor...=p4634.c0.m322

    [EDIT] HERE TOO..http://stores.ebay.co.uk/rapid-model...=p4634.c0.m322
    Thanks for links

    What are you using for a mains adaptor? Only ask as they never cone with the rc chargers.

    I'll need a 7.4 and 14.8v lipo!

  18. #18
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    Cool...I remember reading in one of the forums somewhere that something about the lupine was proprietary....Maybe you can only charge a lupine battery with a lupine charger or something like that??

  19. #19
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  20. #20
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by TTGV
    Bottle for tools, take a look here
    Another one: http://www.bike-discount.de/shop/k35...es-btl-18.html

    Definitely waaaay cheaper than Lupine's.

  22. #22
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    Yes, BBB Tool can is perfect for lipo.
    Magicshine DIY Battery Help

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by klynk
    Yes, BBB Tool can is perfect for lipo.
    Magicshine DIY Battery Help
    can get them on ebay for cheap
    http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/BBB-Tool-Can-B...140b24ffdd323a

    Are they plastic or metal?
    Anyone know the measurements? EDIT 13.5CM Tall, width??

    As for the lipo's i can get a Tenergigy 14.8v 5800mah and 7.4v 5800mah for 72 delivered. BARGAIN
    Hobbyking DE warehouse..+ delivery
    14.8v http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...dProduct=14480 33
    7.4 http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...dProduct=14480 16.70
    Last edited by Goldigger; 01-25-2011 at 08:26 AM.

  24. #24
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    also, don`t forget you can series a couple of 2S packs to give you a 4S pack
    or even parallel them for greater 2S capacity!
    ...Scun.thorpe, UK

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldigger
    Are they plastic or metal?
    Anyone know the measurements? EDIT 13.5CM Tall, width??
    Plastic. Diameter 74mm. Weight 46g.
    Last edited by ortelius; 01-28-2011 at 12:44 AM.

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