AYUP problem and possible solution
someone sent me a set of Ayups to have a look at as they had gone very dim
they originaly thought it was the battery but on replaceing the battery the problem was still there .
so after a fair bit of head scratching wondering how to get into the damn things when I did there was a strong smell of burnt electics .
most of the wireing was a charred mess with the bare minimum connecting it all together and upon disasembly it just crumbled to nothing
the only thing left was the resistor above .
the leds were toast too but did emit a small amount of lumens when tested.
What I have done is slot in 2 XPEs and Regina reflectors but need to drive them somehow
this I have not yet decided on .
but as I tested it on the power supply @ 1000ma drive the 2 heads did get very warm
Does anyone know what current an Ayup is supposed to run at and what value is the resistor they use .
for future reference to mod old ayups the driver on board single xpg optimised for the Regina would be a good implant
pic of the modded Ayup
They did a direct drive with the original battery pack at about 600ma as I recall. Don't hold me to it though.
Cheers Zen that sort of makes sense as tested at that and they stay pretty cool .
Originally Posted by zen bicycle
but we all know that when it comes to modding lights we want it all not 66%
I think on a normal dark night in the uk it will be ok at 1 amp I hope
main problem is there is nowhere to put a driver
In later models Auyp put the driver in the battery pack, so there was never supposed to be a driver in those things. Maybe a cord mounted bflex in a small case on the cord just behind the lights?
Originally Posted by zen bicycle
Yes that was my thoughts I have some of the cheap 960ma drivers from the ebay guy
may do that with one .
I have just been out walking the dog with it cobbled to a battery and 1 amp driver with no heat problems at all just luke warm
I am thinking the owner will be very happy with it
Are you going to share how you got it apart in a condition that could be put back together?
Lots of my mates here would be very interested in knowing that
Those ebay drivers, are you using the dimmed version or did you get the ones where you put the resistor in to suit your desired level? Just asking to see if you are still getting the very little noticeable difference between the 50% power and full power we spoke about before
ok, for some reason I feel compelled to ask which ebay guy we're talking about
Originally Posted by emu26
Ha I should have taken photo`s as now it is reassembled rather permanantly .
the front is a nylon ring which compresses a silicon rubber seal on to the optic it just snaps in and it quite difficult to remove without damage .
I warmed the light up to just holdable and it made it flexible enough to get a sharp small screwdriver under the lip and lever it out with a small amount of damage to the ring
then the silicon seal is easy and the rest just pulls out . the led star was just sitting on the heat sink and no compound .
to pull the heads off was a riddle but the easy way I discovered was when you turn the heads they come to a stop just turnd it a little past the stop and then pull and the head unclicks .
and pulls away there is some length on the wires inside but if it comes with a jerk you may pull the wires out and break them so a little care here is needed .
2 orings on each end seal the light and did disintegrate on this one which is why it is now sealed with the faithfull silicon and no longer adjustable
Reference the driver
it is dimable but I will just do it as a single power so no switch needed to keep it cheap .
no reassembly the regina and 20 mm star fit perfectly
but I had to leave out the seal and use silicon and then click the nylon ring back in but did need to cut 2 x1 mm plastic lens covers
from a welding mask cover any thicker and the nylon ring would not fit .
but I guess if you were good with the silicon you could just use that
and I did put some thermal paste in
Cheers mate, thanks for the reply
A little surprised they would skip such an inexpensive performance and longevity enhancing detail.
Originally Posted by troutie-mtb
Nice work Troutie.
I wonder how many have thrown these away and can now see what can be done to resurect them.
Any chance of a beamshot? shame you hadnt got a working Ay-Up to compare it against.
He'll be well happy with that, well done
Troutie, maybe he just needed to run one of these heatsinks
This is a very timely thread. A busted Ayup just made it's way to me and I was considering a dual xp-g regina build.... hmmm. Unfortunately the previous owner cut the nylon snap rings trying to take the thing apart.
Out of curiousity, how did you go about removing the jack? Seems to be sealed in there with copious amounts of glue.
Thanks for all the detailed information, it's very helpful.
Originally Posted by emptyvoxel
Brute force and it is non replaceable but a new one will glue in place
you dont really need the nylon ring if you can be good with the silly cone
Don't use the cone that comes with the silicone tube.
Go to your local chemist / pharmacist (depending on where you live) and buy a 5 or 10 ml syringe. The end of the syringe normally has a small "nipple" on it, cut this at about a 60` angle. Pull the plunger out of the syringe. fill the syringe about 3/4 full with silicone. Replace the plunger and now use the syringe to accurately apply the silicon where you want it, first time.
When you have finished, squeeze out all of the silicone from the syringe. Get a small container and put some kero in it then just suck the kero up into the syringe, push it out and do this a couple of times. this will dissolve the silicone and leave the syringe clean for the next use.
I pulled my ayups apart last year [ 1 y/o at that stage ] to replace the leds, got one apart ok but trashed the plastic rings on the other. to replace them I used some silicone orings that were slightly bigger than the ID of the lamp body and a ptfe backup ring. takes a little bit of manipulation but they snap into place nicely enough. the a quick chamfer of the backup to make it look pretty.
the pics show the original parts laid out and the oring replacement in their new home
if you're careful with a pair of pliers, by gently squeezing around lamp socket you can crack the glue and pull the end of the plug out.
the socket itself is just the business end of a 2.1mm female dc plug. ( don't get the metal ended ones though, they don't work ) plastic surround type only.
This thread is fantastic, thanks for all the tips.
Ok now had the chance to do a like for like comparison .
I got sent 2 fully working Ayups yesterday .
so replaced the leds and optics with XPGs and Reginas in what was a pretty easy swop .
this left me with one standard and one Ay-upgrade
the standard Ayup is drawing from an 8 volt supply and taking 410 Ma
the Ay-upgrade is drawing 600 ma .
I have only changed the leds not touched the resistor
so why the extra draw from what should be more efficient leds
is it to do with the lower VF of the XPGs .
not measured anything yey but will do when I do the second one
Yes, It's due to the lower Vf of the XPG as compared to the XR-E. And as a result the LEDs are actually drawing more power. If they are using a simple resistor to regulate the current, then you'll need to swap out the resistor when you change to LEDs with a different Vf if you want to keep the power to the LED approximately the same. Otherwise, it's not really a fair comparison since you're actually driving the new LEDs at a higher power levels.
You said you were testing at 8V, I don't know the battery voltage of a standard Ayup setup, but if it's much higher than 8V, the LEDs will be running at really high power levels and will probably overheat without a resistor swap.
Agree its not like for like but then you dont want to mod something and it be the same
so for an easy upgrade it seems a nice result for those with aging Ayups .
the battery is a 2S li ion and well underdriving the leds .
changing the resistor is not an easy task due to the copious use of epoxy
and the inaccessability of where it is .
had it running in still air on my washing line with an ambient of 9 c and it stabilised at about 18 c and sat there for over an hour with no increase in heat .
so in my opinion
ease of mod
cost of mod
all get a
Nice work chris.
Can we keep this thread quiet though, I don't want all my mates with ageing Ay-Ups to get any ideas, just want them to throw away their redundant lights, my way
Wasn't trying to imply it wasn't a good mod. I just didn't know enough about the Ayup setup to know what the final drive current would end up being. Sounds like they are so under driven that actually having it increase some is likely a good thing. This is increasing the power dissipation in the resistor by a small amount, but resistors will typically stand up to a fair amount of abuse so it'll only be an issue if it was already badly under spec'ed.
Originally Posted by troutie-mtb
Originally Posted by MtbMacgyver
Any chance you could explain this direct drive thingy I dont remember ever seeing it discused on here before .
I had a look over on CPF but every thing I saw assumed you knew what you were doing .
The value of the resistor is pretty easy to work out, just subtract the total forward voltage of the LEDís from the voltage of the battery pack - So for 2 LEDís with Vf in series of 3.3 the total Vf is 6.6v (easy so far!); Take this away from 7.6v (nominal batter pack voltage) to give 1v
To get 1 amp flowing in the LEDís just use V=IR ... which in this case is pretty easy as v=1, I=1 so R.... you guessed it equals 1 ohm! And as 1 amp is being dissipated at 1v it needs to be a 1 watt resistor.
There is a great little calculator here: http://led.linear1.org/led.wiz
That said I have been direct driving (ie with no resistor) a pair of Seoul P4's from a 7.6v lithium pack for a couple of seasons now and it makes a good small helmet light.
Despite the dire warnings of meltdown and LEDís going pop, my set (and the 10 or so similar sets that the guys I ride with) all have kept going strongly with no problems.
I started out by using a 1 ohm resistor but in reality I was only getting something like 700mA so I took it out and just run the 2 LEDís directly from the battery and like I say no issues so far.
I do have a low setting on the light which uses a 5 ohm resistor giving about 200mA just for battery conservation Ė I havenít got a photo to hand but will post some after the weekend.
I have been playing around with direct driving 2 XPGís and without a resistor they run at about 1.2A which might be a little high, but I think I will try a pair of those for a while just to see what happens.