Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 100 of 130
  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation: troutie-mtb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    3,060

    Aspherical and XML helmet light attempt

    I have had these Aspherical lense`s in the parts drawer for nearly 2 years now I refound them during a tidy up .

    so this is the start of what I hope to be a super throwing helmet light



    Yes I know there may be comments



    Following the successful mixture of 2 xmls and 2 xpgs on my bar light
    this is the config for this light
    XMLs behind the Aspheric lenses and xpgs for some flood .

  2. #2
    mtbr member
    Reputation: HEY HEY ITS HENDO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    716
    hahahahahaha!! thats crazy man, i love it
    wow, they`re some serious lenses
    ...Scun.thorpe, UK

  3. #3
    A waste of time it is is
    Reputation: emu26's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    3,283
    first 'comment"

    Isn't the slot running the wrong way? Surely it would be better in a vertical direction

  4. #4
    Rep Power Infinity +2
    Reputation: brad72's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    1,538
    Sweet Chris, it seems you have achieved what Emu's avatar and my bike stand would look like from the front. Almost erotic art, some see eyes and a mouth, i see something else

  5. #5
    A waste of time it is is
    Reputation: emu26's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    3,283
    Have you played to work out the best distance from the LED to mount the aspheric or is that going to be part of the experiment

  6. #6
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    489
    You've got to be kiddin' me

  7. #7
    mtbr member
    Reputation: znomit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    1,905
    Troutie have you tried putting some diffuser material over a bit of the aspheric to provide some flood?

  8. #8
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Goldigger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    1,669
    I found 15mm from the surface that the led sits on gives you a perfect pencil beam..but way to tight for anything but a dive light.. I'd guess at the beam being about 4 degrees.
    I'd say 10-12mm from the surface that the led sits on to the bottom of the aspherics should be good for a helmet light..

  9. #9
    Rep Power Infinity +2
    Reputation: brad72's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    1,538
    How about making it adjustable via a thread on the front bezel. Tight beam for fast downhills and flood beam for technical ascents, all by a simple 1/2 to full turn twist?

  10. #10
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    1,310
    My new favorite light design.

  11. #11
    mtbr member
    Reputation: BrianMc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    4,215

  12. #12
    mtbr member
    Reputation: troutie-mtb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    3,060
    Quote Originally Posted by emu26
    first 'comment"

    Isn't the slot running the wrong way? Surely it would be better in a vertical direction

    tried that but not enough room for the 2 x 10 mm optics

    I have played about with one but nothing definite yet as to focus and they may each get a different focus to overlap the beams a little .

    Yes Brad I did think about nipping the waist in a tad
    the on the fly adjustable is beyond my abilities and attention span .


    Jay I am approx 10 mm above the led dome at the moment so can take them down a bit at a time if needed

  13. #13
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    27
    cool!

  14. #14
    mtbr member
    Reputation: mattthemuppet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    2,342
    Quote Originally Posted by brad72
    i see something else
    I see bottle bottom glasses I can't remember the name of the show (Coronation St? <shudder>) but there was a guy on TV with glasses like that..

    Troutie, I think you should just skip LED lights and go for nightvision goggles.

  15. #15
    mtbr member
    Reputation: troutie-mtb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    3,060
    Update on the as yet no name light

    #



  16. #16
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Goldigger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    1,669
    Quote Originally Posted by troutie-mtb
    Update on the as yet no name light

    #


    Have you been having lessons on how to machine things?
    Id be interested to hear how you went about this one..has to be the best one so far

    All you need is a front cover now..

    Chris which bolts are you using to hold the leds down? M2 x 6mm button heads? if so how high do the heads sit?
    http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/M2-x-6-STAINLE...item255282c541

  17. #17
    mtbr member
    Reputation: troutie-mtb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    3,060
    Quote Originally Posted by Goldigger
    Have you been having lessons on how to machine things?
    Id be interested to hear how you went about this one..has to be the best one so far

    All you need is a front cover now..

    Chris which bolts are you using to hold the leds down? M2 x 6mm button heads? if so how high do the heads sit?
    http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/M2-x-6-STAINLE...item255282c541


    No lessons and probably every machinist that ever lived will be turning in their graves at some of my methods .
    Lathe and Mill abuse to be sure.

    the pics dont show the mistakes made like holes that went too deep or in the wrong place .

    Forgot to take photos during the lengthy machining / butchering .

    need to make a top with the switch in
    wont be a front cover asphericals will be glued in with the infamous serious glue .
    when I fine tune the beam at the moment I seem to have a perfect die projected so may be a bit too narrow just waiting for some glue to set before wiring it to the h6flex ..

    what I may try is leave one as it is and only defocus the other so the Xpgs will handle the near ground and one for the mid the other max distance .

    After spending 2 days butchering this piece of ali I wont be doing another one in a hurry .



    seeing as there are no pics this is a brief rundown of opps.

    after a good workout hacksawing a 90 mm length of 50 mm square bar off
    and then realising I had no way to fix it to my tiny rotary table so machine abuse no one

    Fit it in the 4 jaw chuck in the lathe to machine the 2 big holes this was fun and I had to do it on a slow speed as the bit was so inbalanced I did not want to shake the old girl to death this was repeated for the other hole .


    Then into the mill for a bit of work designing on the fly with repeated plan changes as this progressed.
    space suddenly looked very tight to fit in the H6Flex I was just going to mill a square hole but that would have cut into the led cavity so the only option was to go round .

    Que some more Lathe abuse as it just fit in the 4 jaw for some more shake rattle and make swarfe.

    With all the cavities now done it was still a chunky lump so it needed a diet I was goint to go mega minimal but reminded myself that my helmet was not aluminium like the bars so no good heatsinking to be had there .

    next came some mill abuse with a 4 mm round nosed mill to try and make fins this took the most time today as round nosed mills dont cut just as well as flat ones .


    when I had reached the deepest I could go with the mills I foolishley thought to save some more weight I would drill holes through the bits I could not get the mill to reach this went not too bad until 99 % of the way through the first hole the 4 mm drill bit snapped .

    Bugger took me an hour to get the bit out of the hole
    Repeat for another 3 times and I now have 4 broken 4 mm drillbits and 2 unfinished holes .
    Wont do that again .

    Thats about it up to the state it is in in the pics .




    Jay The bolts I used for the stars are M3 button heads and they stand proud of the star by 1.75 mm

  18. #18
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Goldigger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    1,669
    Quote Originally Posted by troutie-mtb
    No lessons and probably every machinist that ever lived will be turning in their graves at some of my methods .
    Lathe and Mill abuse to be sure.

    the pics dont show the mistakes made like holes that went too deep or in the wrong place .

    Forgot to take photos during the lengthy machining / butchering .

    need to make a top with the switch in
    wont be a front cover asphericals will be glued in with the infamous serious glue .
    when I fine tune the beam at the moment I seem to have a perfect die projected so may be a bit too narrow just waiting for some glue to set before wiring it to the h6flex ..

    what I may try is leave one as it is and only defocus the other so the Xpgs will handle the near ground and one for the mid the other max distance .

    After spending 2 days butchering this piece of ali I wont be doing another one in a hurry .



    seeing as there are no pics this is a brief rundown of opps.

    after a good workout hacksawing a 90 mm length of 50 mm square bar off
    and then realising I had no way to fix it to my tiny rotary table so machine abuse no one

    Fit it in the 4 jaw chuck in the lathe to machine the 2 big holes this was fun and I had to do it on a slow speed as the bit was so inbalanced I did not want to shake the old girl to death this was repeated for the other hole .


    Then into the mill for a bit of work designing on the fly with repeated plan changes as this progressed.
    space suddenly looked very tight to fit in the H6Flex I was just going to mill a square hole but that would have cut into the led cavity so the only option was to go round .

    Que some more Lathe abuse as it just fit in the 4 jaw for some more shake rattle and make swarfe.

    With all the cavities now done it was still a chunky lump so it needed a diet I was goint to go mega minimal but reminded myself that my helmet was not aluminium like the bars so no good heatsinking to be had there .

    next came some mill abuse with a 4 mm round nosed mill to try and make fins this took the most time today as round nosed mills dont cut just as well as flat ones .


    when I had reached the deepest I could go with the mills I foolishley thought to save some more weight I would drill holes through the bits I could not get the mill to reach this went not too bad until 99 % of the way through the first hole the 4 mm drill bit snapped .

    Bugger took me an hour to get the bit out of the hole
    Repeat for another 3 times and I now have 4 broken 4 mm drillbits and 2 unfinished holes .
    Wont do that again .

    Thats about it up to the state it is in in the pics .




    Jay The bolts I used for the stars are M3 button heads and they stand proud of the star by 1.75 mm
    Hats of to you Chris, I think it looks really good
    Wish i had room for a lathe..
    As for snapping drill bits, I always seem to snap the black ones from homebase they are crap. Mrs putt a load in my xmas stocking instead of socks
    The Gold jobber bits are pretty tuff, I got a load of 2mm and they have lasted well..

  19. #19
    mtbr member
    Reputation: troutie-mtb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    3,060
    well that worked out a whole lot better than expected still got some fine tuning
    but as a helmet light its Bonkers I need to find a longer trail for these sort of beam shots

    low is good enough for most trails



    medium is stupid bright



    and High is just crazy



    there are some rings in the close up part more noticable on low but I can live with those
    I suspect they are from reflections in the led cavity so may paint the inside

    another crazy thing is on medium which is level 3 it is drawing less than half an amp so on that reckoning it should run for 5 hours from a 2.6 amp hour battery

    or just over 1 hour if on full as it draws 2.1 amps






    one other thing which is a spin off of my ham fistedness is I said I had drilled 2 holes in the wrong place well you can see them when the light is on from the back so I intend to now drill them a bit larger and fill with red epoxy for a tail light .


  20. #20
    Rep Power Infinity +2
    Reputation: brad72's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    1,538
    Wow Chris, that is a great little light. Love the way the hound has a ghost walking with it, spooooky.

  21. #21
    mtbr member
    Reputation: yetibetty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    1,781
    Well done Troutie, very nice design.

    I do my pockets just the same way in the four jaw chuck. Try putting a brass counter weight between light body and one of the jaws to stop the vibration. It works great.

  22. #22
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    62
    Love it!

    Got a name for it yet?

  23. #23
    mtbr member
    Reputation: troutie-mtb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    3,060
    Quote Originally Posted by ahorton
    Love it!

    Got a name for it yet?


    Hi Ahorton welcome aboard
    no name as yet but got to say thanks to you for the lenses
    do you have any still in stock as there will be a MK 2 version and also a bar one in the future .plus my riding mates are gonna hate me as I can now annoy them from further back.

    YetiBetty. good idea but I was on the last bit of thread on the jaws

  24. #24
    A waste of time it is is
    Reputation: emu26's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    3,283
    Chris, that looks fantastic, well done.
    As for a name, what about "Elle" as in " The Body"?

    On my smart phone so can't link in what, sorry, who I am referring to but if you Google those 2 names I'm sure you'll find a suitable pic that will explain.

    Very nice looking light. How heavy is it?

  25. #25
    mtbr member
    Reputation: troutie-mtb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    3,060
    Quote Originally Posted by brad72
    Wow Chris, that is a great little light. Love the way the hound has a ghost walking with it, spooooky.


    Cheers Brad72 not so little I am afraid and near to 200 grams but a heap better than I expected If you want a long range light then Ahortons lenses are great

    check out Ahortons headlight here
    http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...lamp-Version-2

    which I have got to admit did spark the idea for this light ( I hope you dont mind Ash )

    been doing a bit of measuring and the top of the led dome is about 9 mm from the bottom of the lense so wondering if it should go nearer


    Stu not too sure it has any erotic looks now
    something like this should work for your videoing escapades

  26. #26
    mtbr member
    Reputation: troutie-mtb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    3,060
    Got it Spider eyes MK2 as just installed glow paint


  27. #27
    what a joke
    Reputation: ozlongboarder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    2,276
    NICE!

    What are your thoughts on a single XML+ Aspeheric and how it would throw? It would be significantly lighter for helmet mounting but would it have enough punch?
    blah blah blah

  28. #28
    mtbr member
    Reputation: troutie-mtb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    3,060
    Quote Originally Posted by ozlongboarder
    NICE!

    What are your thoughts on a single XML+ Aspeheric and how it would throw? It would be significantly lighter for helmet mounting but would it have enough punch?

    It would certainly throw well but with out much spill which is why I included the 2 XPGs in the mix
    difficult to use 1 xml and 1 xpg if you want to use the full 3 amps

  29. #29
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    373
    LED Driver , how did you wire it ?
    do you have 2 drivers ?

    Still looking for a smaller driver, the H6flex is huge, need about 2A.

  30. #30
    recognize the slowness
    Reputation: jbflyfshr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    481
    looks like a 'Johnny 5' to me but that is just an American movie right?

    Full specs like Schultz said please. Looks a cracker!

    JB
    "mountain biking and flyfishing, what more do you want?" - Yeah, I said it

  31. #31
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    3,278
    Quote Originally Posted by rschultz101
    LED Driver , how did you wire it ?
    Picture 1 in post 15 tells you that it is a single driver running a series string like this...

    XML, parallelled XPGs, XML

  32. #32
    mtbr member
    Reputation: troutie-mtb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    3,060
    Quote Originally Posted by jbflyfshr
    looks like a 'Johnny 5' to me but that is just an American movie right?

    Full specs like Schultz said please. Looks a cracker!

    JB


    Full specs are

    2 XML 2S leds with 30 mm aspheric lenses from Ahorton on CPF bought ages ago I now think he has similar but in 27 mm dia .

    2 XPG leds with the carclo narrow 10 mm sq optics to fill in the flood bit .

    all the leds are wired to a H6flex @ 3 amps with the 2 xpgs wired as a parallel string and in series with the 2 xmls so they get half the amps the xmls get .

    housing is hewn from a block of aluminium and without leaving space for the switch so that has been bodged with a small Mom switch from Apem and glued to the housing using a polyurathane glue called bostik serious glue which is also used to glue in the glass asphericals

    driving the whole setup is a 15 volt Li ION battery pack from www.mtbbatteries.co.uk


    it would have been nice to have 2 drivers so as to use the narrow beam on its own but that just added cost and complexity .


    glow paint from Glow-inc

  33. #33
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Goldigger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    1,669
    Quote Originally Posted by troutie-mtb
    Full specs are

    2 XML 2S leds with 30 mm aspheric lenses from Ahorton on CPF bought ages ago I now think he has similar but in 27 mm dia .

    2 XPG leds with the carclo narrow 10 mm sq optics to fill in the flood bit .

    all the leds are wired to a H6flex @ 3 amps with the 2 xpgs wired as a parallel string and in series with the 2 xmls so they get half the amps the xmls get .

    housing is hewn from a block of aluminium and without leaving space for the switch so that has been bodged with a small Mom switch from Apem and glued to the housing using a polyurathane glue called bostik serious glue which is also used to glue in the glass asphericals

    driving the whole setup is a 15 volt Li ION battery pack from www.mtbbatteries.co.uk


    it would have been nice to have 2 drivers so as to use the narrow beam on its own but that just added cost and complexity .


    glow paint from Glow-inc
    Chris can you not put the switch in the driver cover like i do?
    Or being a helmet light easy to knock up a little housing out of delrin for an in line switch..
    I think i might have a few of these in the draw, could mill the legs off and use it as an inline?

  34. #34
    mtbr member
    Reputation: HuffyPuffy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    890
    Looks kind'a like some Aztec skull Indiana Jones would be interested in Impressive light output too.

    Goldigger, do you have more info on that remote switch - is it waterproof?

  35. #35
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Goldigger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    1,669
    Quote Originally Posted by HuffyPuffy
    Looks kind'a like some Aztec skull Indiana Jones would be interested in Impressive light output too.

    Goldigger, do you have more info on that remote switch - is it waterproof?
    The momontary switches i put in them are IP67 so all thats needed is a few drops of silicone when assembling them, just to cover the solder tabs..

  36. #36
    A waste of time it is is
    Reputation: emu26's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    3,283
    Chris, what's the total vF on that setup at 2.8A? I'm thinking with the h6flex only needing 1v over vf and the relatively low vf of the leds we might be able to get away with a 3 s xml 2 p xpg setup from our 14,8v batteries.

    I think that would be where the peeing contest would end for me

  37. #37
    Rep Power Infinity +2
    Reputation: brad72's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    1,538
    Quote Originally Posted by Goldigger
    Chris can you not put the switch in the driver cover like i do?
    Or being a helmet light easy to knock up a little housing out of delrin for an in line switch..
    I think i might have a few of these in the draw, could mill the legs off and use it as an inline?
    You could be a hand model GD

  38. #38
    mtbr member
    Reputation: troutie-mtb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    3,060
    Quote Originally Posted by Goldigger
    The momontary switches i put in them are IP67 so all thats needed is a few drops of silicone when assembling them, just to cover the solder tabs..


    Yes I have a few of those Jay used one on this light just sat it in the little hole at the front of the case with some glue

    did think about the inline option but had the wired intalled before I realised it needed the switch .
    I am happy with it for my own use but would build in a more elegant solution if I do another one .I do have 4 of the lenses left

    Stu from memory the vf was about 10 volts at 3 amps


    here is a daylight shot which only shows the beam from the eyes



    it was 1 metre square @ 6 metres distance

  39. #39
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    262
    It must be named: Bubbles.

    Great looking light.


    Mike

  40. #40
    mtbr member
    Reputation: troutie-mtb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    3,060
    Had to try the barn shots as the only place handy where I could get a good distance to give it a whirl .
    low I am afraid didnt make it to the barn at 160 metres so only got medium and high




    went out to 200 metres and the camers didnt get a good pic on low or medium so only hi



    managed to get another 100 metres and still get a view of the barn on hi so this is at 300 metres



    Pretty darn impressive and my new favourite light

  41. #41
    Rep Power Infinity +2
    Reputation: brad72's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    1,538
    How was the housing heat on high the the balmy English summer fast approaching
    Last edited by brad72; 05-03-2011 at 06:32 PM.

  42. #42
    mtbr member
    Reputation: HuffyPuffy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    890
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike E.
    It must be named: Bubbles.

    Great looking light.


    Mike

    Best name ever! And with the remote switch named Conky - always telling him what to do.

  43. #43
    what a joke
    Reputation: ozlongboarder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    2,276
    Is it possible to save more weight and drop the to XPG's? If not could the housing be refined to save some weight? I'm thinking pure helmet light used in conjunction with a a bar light.
    blah blah blah

  44. #44
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    62
    As emu suggested, there is always a temptation to add one more! The problem I've found is that you just don't get much value out of it. I found that going from 1 to 2 aspherics gave only a slight increase in visibility. In fact you don't really see much further, you just see the same things a little clearer. So I don't think you'll get much value out of a third XM-L.

    The only reason you might add it, is if you defocus it or use a different optic to fill in the mid-ground a bit. Looking at the beamshots, it looks like the spider eyes has the same (minor) problem that my headlight has when all LEDs are on. You can see both far and close but the beam shape isn't very smooth in between. Of course with good bar-lights this doesn't matter.


    I'm glad you like the lenses Troutie, and I couldn't be happier that my headlamp sparked the idea.

  45. #45
    mtbr member
    Reputation: troutie-mtb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    3,060
    Cheers Ash I am pretty stoked with this light the photos dont do the beam justice at all
    even on the lowest setting it is good but full certainly has the wow factor .

    Yes I agree about adding another so much so that the MK 2 is already in progress and having one removed to just be a single aspheric and other lens this will be a ledil Laura for the first trial .








    I have left room to use or 2 Lflexes so each led will be switchable this light will go in to trials with a Guy who is a Search and Rescue dog handler with our mountain rescue service he wanted a light with good throw for spotting the dog at distance but complained that all the lights he has tried have too much back scatter when it is misty and raining .
    so the idea to be able to switch each on in or out will suit all conditions .

    What are your stock levels like Ash as if this light works out well I will be wanting 50 or so of the lenses.

  46. #46
    mtbr member
    Reputation: yetibetty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    1,781
    Bloody hell Troutie, you're fast.

  47. #47
    A waste of time it is is
    Reputation: emu26's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    3,283
    Quote Originally Posted by yetibetty
    Bloody hell Troutie, you're fast.
    It's sickening

    But oh so good to watch

  48. #48
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Goldigger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    1,669
    Quote Originally Posted by troutie-mtb
    Cheers Ash I am pretty stoked with this light the photos dont do the beam justice at all
    even on the lowest setting it is good but full certainly has the wow factor .

    Yes I agree about adding another so much so that the MK 2 is already in progress and having one removed to just be a single aspheric and other lens this will be a ledil Laura for the first trial .








    I have left room to use or 2 Lflexes so each led will be switchable this light will go in to trials with a Guy who is a Search and Rescue dog handler with our mountain rescue service he wanted a light with good throw for spotting the dog at distance but complained that all the lights he has tried have too much back scatter when it is misty and raining .
    so the idea to be able to switch each on in or out will suit all conditions .

    What are your stock levels like Ash as if this light works out well I will be wanting 50 or so of the lenses.
    Chris that last pic looks like you used a face mill/fly cutter on the surface? I kept toying with the idea of a fly cutter, but my machine has a 30mm max on fly cutting aparently, plus i have no idea how to sharpen tool steel for the fly cutter.

    If you do get 50 of the lenses will you be supplying some to other DIY'ers?

  49. #49
    mtbr member
    Reputation: mattthemuppet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    2,342
    Quote Originally Posted by emu26
    It's sickening

    But oh so good to watch
    I agree, on both counts!

  50. #50
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    3,278
    Quote Originally Posted by Goldigger
    Chris that last pic looks like you used a face mill/fly cutter on the surface? I kept toying with the idea of a fly cutter, but my machine has a 30mm max on fly cutting aparently, plus i have no idea how to sharpen tool steel for the fly cutter.
    That cut was faced on the lathe. You can tell from the pattern that it was done at the same setup that the bore was cut.

  51. #51
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    62
    That is...

    without challenge...

    the ugliest well-made light I have ever seen.



    Stock level is currently 31. These are 27.2mm lenses (P60 size) instead of your 30mm ones but they are optically identical. More can be made if the demand is still there.

  52. #52
    mtbr member
    Reputation: troutie-mtb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    3,060
    Quote Originally Posted by ahorton
    That is...

    without challenge...

    the ugliest well-made light I have ever seen.
    .


    LOL yes needs a stylist

    anyways some more pics






  53. #53
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    55
    If it's only drawing half an amp on medium, you could run it from a dynamo. . . .

  54. #54
    mtbr member
    Reputation: yetibetty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    1,781
    Troutie, you must be powered by rocket fuel or something, I bet CNC machines have trouble keeping up with you.

    I think you win the Pissing contest as emu puts it.........

  55. #55
    mtbr member
    Reputation: troutie-mtb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    3,060
    Quote Originally Posted by yetibetty
    Troutie, you must be powered by rocket fuel or something, I bet CNC machines have trouble keeping up with you.

    I think you win the Pissing contest as emu puts it.........

    only because I have not much work on at the moment , kids have left home at last
    all the painting has been done .

    might as well be in the garage as watching telly .

  56. #56
    A waste of time it is is
    Reputation: emu26's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    3,283
    Troutie that is an impressive weight for such a beast but you really need to speak to your advertising / marketing guys. I think the new name "routelight" (note the French spelling of the word root) might attract the wrong clientelle.

    On a serious note did you just happen to have the correct size radius cutter or did you have to constantly adjust the work piece to get a relatively smooth outside curve?

    Seriously impressive work

  57. #57
    A waste of time it is is
    Reputation: emu26's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    3,283
    Quote Originally Posted by ahorton
    Stock level is currently 31. These are 27.2mm lenses (P60 size) instead of your 30mm ones but they are optically identical. More can be made if the demand is still there.
    I would suggest that after this thread you might want to start making some more

  58. #58
    Rep Power Infinity +2
    Reputation: brad72's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    1,538
    Bloody hell, I don't log on for 2 days and you've built another light chris, or was it the lathe fairies

    I need to find myself a clone so he can go home and amuse the family whilst I stay at work and fiddle on the mill/lathe.

  59. #59
    mtbr member
    Reputation: troutie-mtb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    3,060
    Quote Originally Posted by emu26
    Troutie that is an impressive weight for such a beast but you really need to speak to your advertising / marketing guys. I think the new name "routelight" (note the French spelling of the word root) might attract the wrong clientelle.

    On a serious note did you just happen to have the correct size radius cutter or did you have to constantly adjust the work piece to get a relatively smooth outside curve?

    Seriously impressive work

    by good fortune the cutter is the correct radius so just had to keep moving the work around to get the shape.
    word of warning here keep fingers away from those cutters when spinning that one has half of my fingernail and some flesh due to a blond moment by me .

    change of plan only one Lflex now as I dont have battery that will power it with 2

  60. #60
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Goldigger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    1,669
    Quote Originally Posted by troutie-mtb
    by good fortune the cutter is the correct radius so just had to keep moving the work around to get the shape.
    word of warning here keep fingers away from those cutters when spinning that one has half of my fingernail and some flesh due to a blond moment by me .

    change of plan only one Lflex now as I dont have battery that will power it with 2
    Chris what is that cutter your using?
    Round over bead router bit? just looked at the price of the big ones..Ouch!

    Thanks..
    Last edited by Goldigger; 05-05-2011 at 01:18 AM.

  61. #61
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    270
    Is mighty impressive stuff - how you turn them out at this rate of knots is beyond me! Have to say I do rather prefer the aesthetics of the first one though!

  62. #62
    mtbr member
    Reputation: troutie-mtb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    3,060
    Quote Originally Posted by Goldigger
    Chris what is that cutter your using?
    Round over bead router bit? just looked at the price of the big ones..Ouch!

    Thanks..


    I picked it up for £7 at a car boot sale how much have you seen them for .
    looked like it had never been used now its abused.


    @ mfj197 so do I and also its not very heat friendly but it serves as a good test bed



    Rightio on to some interesting beamshots well I think so

    first up is just a aspheric @ 3 amps ( note holding a piece of card over an XML/Laura @3 amps for 6 seconds hurts )



    Laura on its own not as hot covering an aspheric for 6 secs



    Aspheric and Laura ( note the bond wire shadows must put them at the top next time )




    The double aspheric / xpg



    and just the double Aspheric ( easy to hold the card over the XPGs )



    Advisory note on the Aspheric only shots it looks like there is lots of spill in real life this is a lot dimmer than the camera says

  63. #63
    Rep Power Infinity +2
    Reputation: brad72's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    1,538
    Chris, the 2 additional XPG's certainly compliment the beam of the aspherics.

    Bet the poor bugger lurking in shot 3 was blinded and dazed.

    As a side note is you move the aspheric lens in and out do you get a wide and narrow beam affect or is the focal point fixed?
    Last edited by brad72; 05-05-2011 at 05:30 PM.

  64. #64
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    62
    I really love the new beam. No really bad dead spots.

    For the double-Aspheric, it looks like there's a slight misalignment because the two beams aren't quite shining on the same spot. You can probably just shift one of the MCPCBs a few micrometers and it'll be all good.

  65. #65
    mtbr member
    Reputation: troutie-mtb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    3,060
    Quote Originally Posted by brad72
    Chris, the 2 additional XPG's certainly compliment the beam of the aspherics.

    Bet the poor bugger lurking in shot 3 was blinded and dazed.

    As a side note is you move the aspheric lens in and out do you get a wide and narrow beam affect or is the focal point fixed?

    yes in both cases the aditional optic enhanses the beam for mountain biking
    and i would think a single aspheric. would suit the road bikers need for a long thin beam

    yes from the focul point as you de focus inwards the beab becomes wider and rounder

    the poor sod is my daughter and the dog


    You era spot on Ash though its more the two holes are machined out of alignment by about a quarter of a mm from parallel

  66. #66
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    62
    Quote Originally Posted by troutie-mtb
    You era spot on Ash though its more the two holes are machined out of alignment by about a quarter of a mm from parallel
    That's ok. You can probably still make the beams line up by shifting the LED slightly.

  67. #67
    mtbr member
    Reputation: troutie-mtb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    3,060
    Quote Originally Posted by ahorton
    That's ok. You can probably still make the beams line up by shifting the LED slightly.


    I can live with the miss aligned beams for now its pretty well sealed up against our weather .

    will tighten up the machining now i know a bit more about the animal if I do anymore multi aspherical lights .

  68. #68
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    270
    Quote Originally Posted by troutie-mtb
    ... and i would think a single aspheric. would suit the road bikers need for a long thin beam
    I do something similar, but in a far more mundane way at the moment - two of the cheap X2000 aspheric zoomable flashlights, one on quite wide flood and one zoomed further in. Nothing like this of course - very impressive.

  69. #69
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Goldigger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    1,669
    Heres's ahorton's CPF link to purchase the aspherics..assuming its still valid.
    There's a few other bits on there to..
    http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...ses-headlamps-...)

  70. #70
    Rep Power Infinity +2
    Reputation: brad72's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    1,538
    Quote Originally Posted by Goldigger
    Heres's ahorton's CPF link to purchase the aspherics..assuming its still valid.
    There's a few other bits on there to..
    http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...ses-headlamps-...)

    Excellent Jay. Do you use the aspheric's for you dive lights?

  71. #71
    mtbr member
    Reputation: troutie-mtb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    3,060

    Conclusions and thoughts

    OK so now I have had a few plays with the lights here are a few thoughts .

    The Problem
    From experience of quite a few diy and shop bought lights in my opinion there has always been something lacking which came to light really when I started taking the hound out on night rides so was going a bit slower which gave me more time to observe and contemplate .

    What I was finding as a lot of rides were on canal towpaths so good distances were available the dog was running ahead and would go beyond the beam alot of the time .
    it was like there is a black hole moving along in front at the same speed .

    This was sometimes made a bit better by the mad lumen count lights but it was still there on all lights .
    What to do about it keep adding leds untill it gets far enough away to not annoy me
    Tried that and it becomes expensive and power requirements mean heavier batteries .

    Or try and use the available lumens better and use less leds this seems to be the way to go .

    We had pretty good lights when the XRE was the flagship led and with every improvement in led design and lumen count we are still chasing the utopian light for our own ( enlightenment )

    So when I refound the Aspherical lenses in a workshop tidy up I sat and stared at them for an age before deciding to revisit some testing I had done when they first came in this was in the MCE period and the 4 die beam was not good for biking
    I then went on CPF and read up on a few aspheric lights. ( they seem to be able to tell you a lot on CPF but also keep a lot of secrets so it can be frustrating doing research on there )
    Went and found Ahortons threads and saw his head light and he was the only one I had seen that utilised the lense and seperate other led / optic to make a more usable light .
    the rest is all in this thread with the spawning of the dual spider eyes light closely followed by its brother .

    first impressions were excellent the Black-hole had been vanquished all be it with a large lumen count with the spidereyes the light just keeps going the lumen hound is always visible as are the Rabbits he likes to chase .

    So I had to try a single Aspheric plus friend and it was working as well OK not quite as bright but the black hole was no more .
    Now these are pretty much a lucky set up as only rough measurements and set up has been used in my haste to get a working light

    also on first seeing the hotspot is square as my daughter pointed out on a walk the other night at first I thought it would annoy me but the more I esed it the more I got to appreciate it as the distance increases the the beam expands and it is the same shape of a lot of the trails I ride ( there are other shape of trails which may not suit this beam )

    the lense can be defocused a little to get a more rounded and slightly less throwing beam and I do want to do some fine tuning of this setup .

    I have been greedy and bought 50 of these from Ash clearing him out of all but his own he wanted to keep , He did say he would be making some more and I believe he will sell some of his own supply while the new ones are being made .

    One thought for a single Aspherical / XML would be the road but with the bottom of the led cavity (Liberated ) to drop the remaining lumens downwards but as my main purpose for this is a killer helmet light I wouldnt want those stray lumens in front of my face .

    so in conclusion I am very happy with these 2 lights and there will be others I am sure just not as quickly ..

    as well as Ahortons sale thread

    various aspherical lenses can be had from Dealextreme , Kaidomain .
    and here http://www.surplusshed.com/

    I hope you all enjoyed seeing the birth of these lights as much as I did making them .
    and keep up the innovative work that this place is famous for .

    Troutie

  72. #72
    mtbr member
    Reputation: znomit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    1,905
    Quote Originally Posted by troutie-mtb
    I hope you all enjoyed seeing the birth of these lights as much as I did making them .
    Hell yes

  73. #73
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Goldigger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    1,669
    Quote Originally Posted by brad72
    Excellent Jay. Do you use the aspheric's for you dive lights?
    Never made any dive lights as I already have a beast of a dive light..
    Plus getting the thing water tight under pressure for 50m diving can be a challenge.
    One mistake and its all in the bin as salt water is nasty on electronics.

  74. #74
    what a joke
    Reputation: ozlongboarder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    2,276
    Quote Originally Posted by troutie-mtb
    my main purpose for this is a killer helmet light

    Troutie
    I know photos dont always tell the full story but from I we can see in them I think your onto a real winner here Troutie. I look forward to seeing you refine the design now that they have proven them selves as a killer helmet light!

    Keep up the good work!
    blah blah blah

  75. #75
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Wombat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    2,048
    Quote Originally Posted by troutie-mtb
    LOL yes needs a stylist

    anyways some more pics
    Chris

    Can you tell me where you get the helmet mounts from?

    Thanks

    Tim

  76. #76
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    5

    We the people ...

    Very Cool! What type of bit is that red one cutting the radius?

    Mac

  77. #77
    mtbr member
    Reputation: troutie-mtb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    3,060
    Quote Originally Posted by Wombat
    Chris

    Can you tell me where you get the helmet mounts from?

    Thanks

    Tim

    Tim. They are from my Mini troutlight I had cnc d up


    Mac
    its a carbide woodworking Router bit. ( tool abuse )

  78. #78
    mtbr member
    Reputation: troutie-mtb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    3,060
    Quote Originally Posted by ahorton
    That is...

    without challenge...

    the ugliest well-made light I have ever seen.



    Is the MK 2 a little better looking








  79. #79
    mtbr member
    Reputation: HuffyPuffy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    890
    I'm not sure if it is the simulated bear skin rug it is on or the light itself, but I like it!

  80. #80
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Goldigger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    1,669
    Quote Originally Posted by troutie-mtb
    Is the MK 2 a little better looking







    You sure are getting good at churning these out Chris..

    Does anyone see this when the look at it, or is it just my warped sense of humour?

  81. #81
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    32
    That's beautiful, Troutie. After that old motorcycle photo, it could be called the "sidecar".

  82. #82
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Goldigger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    1,669
    Quote Originally Posted by natac
    That's beautiful, Troutie. After that old motorcycle photo, it could be called the "sidecar".
    I thought that to...maybe more fitting would be sidelight

  83. #83
    mtbr member
    Reputation: troutie-mtb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    3,060
    Quote Originally Posted by Goldigger
    You sure are getting good at churning these out Chris..

    Dont know about churning started it by hacksawing a lump off a 44mm square bar of ali on saturday afternoon . did about 4 hours .

    sunday another 4 hours while the Turkey F1 race was on on

    3 hours monday morning ( 05.00 till 08.00 )
    4 hours monday evening
    today 4 hours
    still got to assemble it yet

    and not forgetting looking and planning each process 25 hours I reckon is a fair estimate though could possibly Churn another out in half the time .

    tips the scales at 110 grams with all the bits to make it work and fit it on a helmet .

  84. #84
    Rep Power Infinity +2
    Reputation: brad72's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    1,538
    Fantastic Chris but you need to slow down so the rest of us can catch up. Maybe if I get my fitters to machine up lights, mmmm, what is more important, the factory running or me having new lights to play with

    Have to agree regarding the time taken. Knocking lights up in the lathe is so fast but with a manual mill I reckon it takes 5-6 times long

  85. #85
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,433
    I like different...so I really like that design. That fur thing the housing is on reminds of me of centerfold layout

  86. #86
    A waste of time it is is
    Reputation: emu26's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    3,283
    Looks good Chris.

    why did you set the aspheric back so far into the housing, was it just to protect the lense from scratching? I think if you brought it all the way forward and shortened that side of the housing you'd go close to getting it under 100gms. Now that would be and impressive build for a helmet light with so much useful output.

    Nice work

  87. #87
    mtbr member
    Reputation: yetibetty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    1,781
    Quote Originally Posted by cytoe
    That fur thing the housing is on reminds of me of centerfold layout
    True light porn then.
    Problem is now I have Goldiggers sidecar picture in my head I keep thinking of Arthur & Olive from ON THE BUSES.

    Nice work Troutie I like it a lot.

  88. #88
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    62
    Much nicer!

    At 110grams it will get hot, but probably not enough to worry when you're moving.

    Looks like a very easy assembly too. I'm guessing that you'll just glue the lens and optic in.

    Where is the connection between the chambers? I think I can see a cut but I'm not sure if it's a reflection.

  89. #89
    mtbr member
    Reputation: troutie-mtb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    3,060
    Quote Originally Posted by ahorton
    Much nicer!

    At 110grams it will get hot, but probably not enough to worry when you're moving.

    Looks like a very easy assembly too. I'm guessing that you'll just glue the lens and optic in.

    Where is the connection between the chambers? I think I can see a cut but I'm not sure if it's a reflection.
    Thanks Ash quite a few improvements over the first one
    Switch on the side sucks switch on top is best .

    better heat handling

    drilling the hole through was a challenge




    Yes both optics are glued in

    Not sure what to do with the 27 mm lenses though ( they arrived today Thanks )
    tiny flange on them but look good and look huge next to the 30 mm ones .
    even smaller housing on the cards.


    @ Emu
    the lens is inside a cavity if I want to use it on the bars so dont get stray light in the eyes
    Bugger I have just realised the lense must invert the image damn bond wire shadow is at the bottom but leds are bond wire up in the light
    Last edited by troutie-mtb; 05-11-2011 at 02:14 PM.

  90. #90
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Goldigger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    1,669
    Quote Originally Posted by troutie-mtb
    Thanks Ash quite a few improvements over the first one
    Switch on the side sucks switch on top is best .

    better heat handling

    drilling the hole through was a challenge




    Yes both optics are glued in

    Not sure what to do with the 27 mm lenses though ( they arrived today Thanks )
    tiny flange on them but look good and look huge next to the 30 mm ones .
    even smaller housing on the cards.


    @ Emu
    the lens is inside a cavity if I want to use it on the bars so dont get stray light in the eyes
    Bugger I have just realised the lense must invert the image damn bond wire shadow is at the bottom but leds are bond wire up in the light
    You could pop some in the post for me
    I still have a 30mm one doing nothing..was thinking of making a single with it..

  91. #91
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    62
    What are the final dimensions on it?

    It looks like 50mm wide, 34mm high and 40mm deep.

    The 27mm lens will let you come down to 47x30x40mm when CNC'd. Don't worry about the tiny flange. You're not getting much light through the edge anyway so it's not a major loss if you use an extra 1mm to glue it in.

    The connecting hole between the chambers should also be easy enough for a professional CNC shop to do.

  92. #92
    mtbr member
    Reputation: troutie-mtb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    3,060
    Quote Originally Posted by Goldigger
    You could pop some in the post for me
    I still have a 30mm one doing nothing..was thinking of making a single with it..


    I have 4 x 30 mm ones left if you want one of those a couple are earmarked for a dive light for a mate

    the 50 I got from Ashley are going to get cnced housings

    @ Ahorton
    pretty much on the money there 55 wide 33 high and 42 deep

    and here it is on one of EL34`s headstraps


  93. #93
    A waste of time it is is
    Reputation: emu26's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    3,283
    looks great, shirt, headstrap writing and doggy bed all colour coordinate.

    Oh, and the light looks top notch as well mate

    I noticed you don't like the switch at the side, have you tried them at the back? That seems to be my preferred position. Forefinger on the front of the light, swicth activated with the thumb, leaving my right hand on the bars

  94. #94
    mtbr member
    Reputation: troutie-mtb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    3,060

    Skeletor

    OK this will give you all a laff .

    back at the start of the thread the Spidereyes was born

    Well the thing weighed in at a neck straining 200 ish grams and that was without the mount I think so for me to want to use it it needed a diet like its owner .
    it underwent surgery in a back street weight loss clinic and the results are not pretty .
    the milling zombies had a ball removing as much metal as poss and adding fins to all that remained .
    absolutely no finesse was shown to it just a rough cut and hack job .

    not fully healed yet from surgery and here I give you a shadow of its former self .

















    weighing in at 147 grams inc mount after its reduction program
















    would go well in the Micheal Jackson Thriller video .
























    are you ready for your eyes to be assaulted































    and your good taste insulted ..





























    enough blabbing here it is in its pain .



































    the frontal pic it not too bad really as long as you look at it in the dark .

































    its the side view that is in a class of its own





    Sorry








  95. #95
    mtbr member
    Reputation: yetibetty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    1,781
    Words fail me when it comes to looks. But as it not designed for beauty purposes, just a killer light to be used in the dark then you could have it nailed. If it copes with the heat.

  96. #96
    mtbr member
    Reputation: BrianMc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    4,215
    I think after the 7-up you've got this 'not square, not round ' sub-theme and variations thing going on. I told you it looked like a zombie. In the nicest way, of course! Skeletor works too. Powered up no one will see it front on, Nothing but burned retinas. Be neat anodized red and black. A variant with large 45 degree angle cooling fins off eacn XM-L could be the 'Horn(e)y Devil'! Anodized in red of course. Even your merciless weight hatchet jobs come out.

  97. #97
    Rep Power Infinity +2
    Reputation: brad72's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    1,538
    So Chris, your next logical step is to make some sand casts, make yourself a little furnace to melt some alloy and pour your own castings. If you have about 4 housing per sand cast, you could produce 4 lights in no time at all, and at a very minimal cost.

  98. #98
    mtbr member
    Reputation: troutie-mtb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    3,060
    Quote Originally Posted by brad72
    So Chris, your next logical step is to make some sand casts, make yourself a little furnace to melt some alloy and pour your own castings. If you have about 4 housing per sand cast, you could produce 4 lights in no time at all, and at a very minimal cost.

    There was a guy appeared on here who cast his own stuff and a fine job he did too

    I had a go melting some offcuts but decided it had the possibility to give me Freddy Kluger
    Looks .


    here are some comparison beam shots
    all on high beam

    LIBERATOR (1700 lumens measured )


    DX Bastid P7 ( 550 lumens measured )


    Triple XML Cute SS optic ( on paper lumens 2700 )


    Little helmet light 2 XML ( on paper lumens 1800 )


    Spider eyes monster light . ( on paper lumens 2700 )


  99. #99
    Rep Power Infinity +2
    Reputation: brad72's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    1,538
    Wow chris, the spider eye light puts out some light, and it is great to see some traditional stone fences again. Brings back memories from when I was a kid playing in fields around Kidderminster.

    I had a dream last night about sand casting hence the suggestion. Just need a safe way to heat the crucible and not spray myself with molten metal as you said, but must say in my dream the results were fantastic.

  100. #100
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    62
    I reckon it looks much better now!

    I love the lean, efficient, hungry look.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Members who have read this thread: 0

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •