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  1. #1
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    1

    It had to happen 4/3/2/ now 1 XML

    As I have run out of freebe stock Aluminium I had to buy some in . so taking a leaf out of odtexas`s book went for box section stuff .



    got some 1 inch 16 swg gauge walls and some 3/4 inch square bar this is as near perfect as you could wish for slice off an 8 mm piece for the heat sink and after a light rub on some sand paper it is a tight press fit in the box section
    no thermal paste required as it is so tight as to need pressing in with a vice so very good metal to metal contact

    a bit of machining for the Laura with out the holder .



    and an hour spent doing some finny work
    and an M4 tapped hole for the mount




    and all bits ready for an Lflex I used an old maxflex for the weigh in and still have a couple of holes to drill for the switch and power cable

  2. #2
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    .....Perfect!

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    Wow. Looks really great

  4. #4
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    nice! This is something I've been thinking about too, should be a simple, straightforward and relatively cheap build. I wonder how well this would work as a helmet light..

  5. #5
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    I like it. I have some 1" square tubing with 1/16" walls which will take the Laura in it's holder, though I may need to attach a heatsink to keep it cool.

    How are you planning to attach the rear cover to the square tubing?

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattthemuppet
    nice! This is something I've been thinking about too, should be a simple, straightforward and relatively cheap build. I wonder how well this would work as a helmet light..

    Hopefully really nice as a helmet light but wont be able to say till George releases his Lflex
    and one swims across the Atlantic .

    Natac

    Yes I have a bit of box the same as you to play around with but like the thicker walls so as to be able to drill and tap into them .

    the end plate will be either bolted on with M2 bolts or more likely glued in with silicon or epoxy




  7. #7
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    Very nice looking!
    Should be really good as a helmet light I should think.

  8. #8
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    Very nice Chris. If you get a decent enough beam out of just the one then I think we are finally getting close to truly minimalistic helmet lights with the ability to helmet mount battery as well.

    The only problem I see for you is, where to from here?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by emu26
    .

    The only problem I see for you is, where to from here?

    That's always the question and somehow we always find something new...
    That's why we all keep coming back and comparing bits....

    Light looks great Troutie. The mill and your skill really turns out a professional light from some box section.

    This would make a great production light.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by emu26
    Very nice Chris. If you get a decent enough beam out of just the one then I think we are finally getting close to truly minimalistic helmet lights with the ability to helmet mount battery as well.

    The only problem I see for you is, where to from here?

    I think we are just scratching the surface yet as we are messing with old optics
    surly the optic makers will get some good ones out for the new XMls soon .

    what I am coming to the conclusion is that 2000 lumens is about the max and it is how those lumens are presented that is important .

    For me I will just keep bumming along hacking out a few lights until I get fed up with it and then go on to making other stuff


    I dont for a minute think it will be able to handle the heat but am not too worried as Georges Lflex will look after that

    Odtexas
    yes as a production light something like it would be great but you can be sure MS will have one out cheaper soon .

  11. #11
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    Hi troutie love the new one Think the downward sequence should stop now . Sure you've said b4 somewhere buy what is the bar mount you are using? Is it easy to get in UK?
    Cheers.

  12. #12
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    Another masterpiece Chris. And at that weight you won't notice it on your helmet. With George's new lflex, a 3.7v battery and up to of 900 lumens its got to be a winner!

    I'd also be interested to know where I can get a few of those mounts. The lupine one is ridiculously expensive for 50p's worth of melted plastic. I can buy two xml's or most of an lflex for the same price

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by cagliari
    Hi troutie love the new one Think the downward sequence should stop now . Sure you've said b4 somewhere buy what is the bar mount you are using? Is it easy to get in UK?
    Cheers.



    the downward sequence has continued tonight. as it is now zero xmls
    dont yet know what happened. but. connected it to the bench power supply and it went to 3.8 volts @ 3amps ran ok for a few. shines around the garden and room
    and then just went out. and wont power up again .
    it was not hot either. as i had switched on from cold and was going to letmit heat up to see how fast it got hot .
    I think it just died


    the mounts are the Electron mounts from chain reaction cycles. 1.99 each

  14. #14
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    Looks good Troutie.
    Too bad it bonked out on you.
    Had you used this xml for any crazy testing previously?
    Look, whatever happens, don't fight the mountain.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by savagemann
    Looks good Troutie.
    Too bad it bonked out on you.
    Had you used this xml for any crazy testing previously?

    nope was a new one. also the Hipflex on my test rig is now dead. so I am thinking it might have been the hipflex killing the XML in its death throws

    now out of xmls so it could mean the break up of the quad or wait for some more to arrive

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by troutie-mtb

    the mounts are the Electron mounts from chain reaction cycles. 1.99 each
    Oh I see what you've done. I guess it started as one of these but has been relieved of the knob and bottom link. Very clever. Thanks Chris.


  17. #17
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    great little light.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by troutie-mtb
    nope was a new one. also the Hipflex on my test rig is now dead. so I am thinking it might have been the hipflex killing the XML in its death throws

    now out of xmls so it could mean the break up of the quad or wait for some more to arrive
    Or maybe the XML went open circuit and caused the Hipflex to pop? I don't think being connected with no load does them any good

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by troutie-mtb
    the downward sequence has continued tonight. as it is now zero xmls
    dont yet know what happened. but. connected it to the bench power supply and it went to 3.8 volts @ 3amps ran ok for a few. shines around the garden and room
    and then just went out. and wont power up again .
    it was not hot either. as i had switched on from cold and was going to letmit heat up to see how fast it got hot .
    I think it just died


    the mounts are the Electron mounts from chain reaction cycles. 1.99 each

    Sorry to hear about the sad demise of your last XML, still waiting for mine to arrive. Cheers for the info about the bar mount, the same mount I used for my Lumicycle triple clone last year !! didn't think about modding the bar mount seemed to work well as was, looks like it works well for lighter builds. Cheers.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by JezV
    Or maybe the XML went open circuit and caused the Hipflex to pop? I don't think being connected with no load does them any good

    OK i guess I was due a failed led or 2 as have had a good run without bit sad to have the Hipflex go to boot hill too

    anyways good news for me was I had forgotten the one on the ali bar as an optic tester .
    so I have one to slot in to the mk2 light .

    MK2 light you say why .


    Well I was a bit confused before the led & driver killed each other that the beam was not as I expected so removed the Laura and sat it on the test led and it was good .

    so a bit of detective work was needed , I drilled out the centre of a Laura so as to see where it sat on the led



    I should have photoed it then but forgot it was about 1.5 mm above the led base plate
    Ahh the culprit .



    this is how I wanted it to be
    the laura sits on a ledge in the light and I had arsed up the measurements by the thickness of the optic flange

    easy I thought put it back in the mill and take the flange down a bit .



    WRONG

    when I saw chips flying from an unusual place it was too late the case had joined the led and hipflex to the funeral .




    so the mk 2 was born with this time with






    Re the mounts I have a few of the tops as use the bottoms on the Liberator mounts
    so a good way to use the other half .

  21. #21
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    Ohhhh. I love me some round bottom Fins.........= )
    Too bad about the case, but at least you got everything sorted out.
    Look, whatever happens, don't fight the mountain.

  22. #22
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    Chris I'm both saddened and yet very happy to read your last post.

    saddened by your misfortune, but glad to see that young Fin reappear. I can't tell you the number of times I have searched these forum pages looking for her.

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    crap, between your avatar emu and your picture troutie I think my brain just exploded

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by brad72
    crap, between your avatar emu and your picture troutie I think my brain just exploded


    credit for the RBF. is I believe Znomits
    but she is a Beauty along side Emu s. avatar

  25. #25
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    back to being ready for an Lflex







    and also experimenting with a silicon substitute






    comes with a nice nozzle to put the glue where you want it and seems better than silicon but time will tell the switch and optic are fixed with it

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    Just keep that glue away from the ipad. I can only see tears if that gets damaged.

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    Troutie, where are you planning to mount the lflex?

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by natac
    Troutie, where are you planning to mount the lflex?
    Natac it will sit flat on the botttom but will need 1/2 mm filling off each side as the space is 19 mm wide but looking at Georges pic it should be doable

  29. #29
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    troutie, you said you don't think your '1' will handle the heat well. Were you just kidding or serious. I ask because I want to build a similar light and am worried about heat. I will be using 1.25" OD square tubing, 1" ID w/ 0.125" thick walls. I was planning on cutting some fins using a table saw that look similar to your machined '1'. I was planning on using some 1" OD tubing stock to mount the xm-l, lFlex and switch on a sled. Do you think I need more of a heatsink than the 0.0625" sled? Will the finned housing suffice? Any thoughts from the experts whose ideas I stole? ie. troutie, odtexas, matthemuppet, achesalot, etc.

  30. #30
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    Andy

    it something I wont know untill the Lflexs ship and I can finish it
    I was going off the twin and triple .

    we dont have many heat problems here in blighty apart from its cold and damp so aiding small light housings .

    the difference in heat output is large from max to the next level down .

    and dont forget the Lflexs heat related dimming feature will look after it

    your sled should work fine as long as you get a good solid interface with the case

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    Andy,

    The heat produced and therefore removed is all relative to the ambient temperature and teh movement of air across the housing.

    Lets say your XML on 3amps is only warm to the touch when moving fast but gets hot as hell when going slow or stationary causing the thermal cutout to dim the light, is this a problem for you application. If not, then a minimalistic housing will be fine.

    If however the ambient temperature is hot and you do a lot of slow moving riding and you need full power with no dimming then a bigger housing with more heat sinking may be needed. It is all relative to your application.

    Here in Australia where in summer it can be 28C at night when riding, if I want to run full power and still ride slowly I need a lot of heat sinking and an efficient housing. It does make the light a bit heavier and bigger but it suits my application. My winter housings are minimally finned and are smaller and lighter.

    Hope this helps

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by brad72
    Andy,
    My winter housings are minimally finned and are smaller and lighter.

    Hope this helps
    Thanks for justifying another build, winter is on the way, time to replace the heavy summer housing

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by brad72
    Andy,

    Here in Australia where in summer it can be 28C at night when riding, minimally finned and are smaller and lighter.
    Hell we are lucky if we see that temp at midday in summer .
    folks are dying from heat exhaustion if it gets that warm .

    Teashirt weather at 10c sweater on at 8c windproof on at 3c as a bit chilly

    funny thing when we went to Daytone beach in early march a few years ago
    talking to folks in the bar they thought our kids were mad swimming in the sea
    our kids thought the American kids were soft wussies wearing wet suits

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by troutie-mtb
    Hell we are lucky if we see that temp at midday in summer .
    folks are dying from heat exhaustion if it gets that warm .

    Teashirt weather at 10c sweater on at 8c windproof on at 3c as a bit chilly

    funny thing when we went to Daytone beach in early march a few years ago
    talking to folks in the bar they thought our kids were mad swimming in the sea
    our kids thought the American kids were soft wussies wearing wet suits
    I here you Chris. We moved to Australia from the Uk to Australia in August and swam all day when everyone was rugged up in winter gear. They though we were mad. We couldn't understand why we had the pool to ourselves. Now in 18C I put a jumper on.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy13
    troutie, you said you don't think your '1' will handle the heat well. Were you just kidding or serious. I ask because I want to build a similar light and am worried about heat. I will be using 1.25" OD square tubing, 1" ID w/ 0.125" thick walls. I was planning on cutting some fins using a table saw that look similar to your machined '1'. I was planning on using some 1" OD tubing stock to mount the xm-l, lFlex and switch on a sled. Do you think I need more of a heatsink than the 0.0625" sled? Will the finned housing suffice? Any thoughts from the experts whose ideas I stole? ie. troutie, odtexas, matthemuppet, achesalot, etc.
    Sheesh, I'm setting up with 1" OD tubing and a slightly smaller sled that fits inside.
    I guess I'll see if I need to mount some heatsink or fin the outside once I try running it in summer.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy13
    troutie, you said you don't think your '1' will handle the heat well. Were you just kidding or serious. I ask because I want to build a similar light and am worried about heat. I will be using 1.25" OD square tubing, 1" ID w/ 0.125" thick walls. I was planning on cutting some fins using a table saw that look similar to your machined '1'. I was planning on using some 1" OD tubing stock to mount the xm-l, lFlex and switch on a sled. Do you think I need more of a heatsink than the 0.0625" sled? Will the finned housing suffice? Any thoughts from the experts whose ideas I stole? ie. troutie, odtexas, matthemuppet, achesalot, etc.
    The tubing with fins should be enough if you have a decent pace when riding.
    In the summer its still 100 degrees (37C) here at 9:00 PM.
    I average between 12 to 14 mph when riding.
    I think as long as you were doing 5 to 8 mph you would probably be fine with finning on a 1" OD finned extrusion.

  37. #37
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    Maybe I do the little blighter an injustice and it will handle the heat just fine .
    may even be able to shrink it a tad too .

    set it up on the bench supply with the probe approx 2.5 mm from the rear of the led star.
    also squidged in a good dollop of thermal paste .

    when it cools will do again with a gentle breeze from a desk fan

    Ambient about 15c









    and now with a fan running 6 feet away on its low setting to simulate a slow speed riding .







    I concur with Odtexas about the fins and airflow
    Last edited by troutie-mtb; 02-17-2011 at 08:10 AM.

  38. #38
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    Thanks to all the responses! I can't believe how great this forum is, because of the regular contributors. It's great how you treat newbies, and are still able to discuss incredibly technical crap that is way over my head, hell......most of it is way over my head! Thanks again.

  39. #39
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    A single XM-l in this size housing will be perfectly good as long as there is slight to moderate air movement past it. At 3A this design has to deal with ~9W of heat. The first microlight I built is less than half the size of this and deals with ~6W of heat easily as long as you are moving say around 5 mph. This is in 8 to 12C air temps.

  40. #40
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    Thanks again guys, the temp readings troutie got are very encouraging as well as the other posts. My uses are either commuting to work, averaging around 20mph or trail riding averaging 8-12mph. If I am going slower I probably won't be needing 2.8A. I am thinking a 6600mAh 3.7v battery should last over 2 hours at 2.8A and over 4 hours at 1.5A. The wife and I hope to only need a couple of hours at the Dirty Kanza:-)

  41. #41
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    OK Chris I'll ask, that light looks like it's wired properly and closed up, what are you using as a driver? Have you got your hands on a test model from George?

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by emu26
    OK Chris I'll ask, that light looks like it's wired properly and closed up, what are you using as a driver? Have you got your hands on a test model from George?


    I wish no such luck.
    its wired to the bench power supply
    I closed the back up so it was real world testing as I did a simalar test on a light and left the back off. and it worked fantastically but it would. because it had twice as much surface area exposed to the air.

    Hoping my email request to George is near the front of the que.

  43. #43
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    I used to spend a lot of time on SilentPCReview.com (I absolutely HATE computer noise, drives me nuts) where a lot of people tried cooling CPUs passively, even to the point where the heatsink was >3lbs. None of it worked particularly well. Now when you put a fan pointing at the heatsink, even a very low speed undervolted fan will drop the CPU temperature by 10s of deg C.

    I'm pretty sure that the same applies to heatsinking on bike lights.

    Now as to Oz vs. the rest of the world, I don't know, never did much night riding there (young kids etc). However I did have to adjust from riding in >45C+ to <-20C when I moved to the northeast US. That was a shock!

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vancbiker
    A single XM-l in this size housing will be perfectly good as long as there is slight to moderate air movement past it. At 3A this design has to deal with ~9W of heat. The first microlight I built is less than half the size of this and deals with ~6W of heat easily as long as you are moving say around 5 mph. This is in 8 to 12C air temps.

    If you were going to fin it, would fins ideally be lengthwise or widthwise?

    I will be doing a helmet mount on mine, and hope to have a thermal path to the aluminum angled mount too, which should add some sinking.

  45. #45
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    I like the fins running lengthwise, though I do not believe there is a functional difference.

  46. #46
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    question on temperature....What is appropriate for the single XML, meaning what can it take? I have my Lflex set at 60c, which trips at approx. 5 min when still. I am not used to lights getting this hot! At what temperature will you damage the LED or Lflex? Can I safely set the temperature cutoff higher, as long as I don't touch the housing a burn my hand? It seems if the Lflex has a 90c setting then that must be appropriate in some situations.
    Thanks in advance for the education....again.

  47. #47
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    Keep in mind the internal components like the switch, wire, connectors etc.
    Most pvc covered wire is only rated to 90c.
    Running the lights really hot will dramatically shorten it's lifespan as well.
    I guess if we got at least 5000 hours out of out lights we'd be doing OK.
    But most of the LED's are rated for 50,000 hours which sounds a bit better.
    But that is at a junction temp of somewhere around 25c
    Look, whatever happens, don't fight the mountain.

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    OK, does this mean I can safely set the temperature cutoff at 80c? or 70c?
    TIA

  49. #49
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    the leds are ok upto 150 degrees c but will be 30/40 degrees hotter than the heatsink they are on

    and dont forget the hotter the led the less light comes out the front as this experiment proved





    Me personally would not set the driver at more than 70 c

  50. #50
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    What kind of lumens and throw are you getting from the single XM-L with the Laura?? Would this be good for a helmet mount or better suited for a bar light?

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