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  1. #1
    Randall "Tex" Cobb
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    New bike, dented frame?

    Hey,

    Sorry for the double post as I posted this in General Discussion also, but I wanted some Kona owner opinion's and maybe Kona Joe's.

    This past Sunday evening I picked up the '05 Kikapu Deluxe I ordered about a month ago. Since it has rained every day since then here in Burlington, VT (And the fact that it is mud season and trails are closed) it has sat in my house waiting patiently to be ridden (Save for a couple of in-yard suspension tuning jaunts). Today was a beautiful day and after doing the 8-5 behind a computer thing I darted home to do a quick once over and take her on her maiden voyage. To my dismay there is a dent about 3/4 of an inch wide and the full height of the downtube with what appear to be stress cracks in the paint, possibly more. Paint is flat red so it doesn't shine which makes it difficult to notice. I know there is no way I could have done this. (Exactly what kind of force does it take to put a good sized dent in a 7005 aluminum frame) Bike was transported 2 hours home in the back of my honda element with plenty of room. My question, how do I approach the dealer, what would most likely be the outcome of this from a dealer standpoint. There is no question that the bike has not been ridden yet, not a spec of dirt on it. It's very frustrating since I waited about a month for the bike, now I will most likely have to drive another 4 hours round trip (Twice) (plus an $18 round trip ferry ticket across lake champlain each time I go) to drop off and pick up the bike.

    I guess I'm just frustrated and a little worried right now and would appreciate some rational thinking and opinions.

    And Joe, what would it take to dent the frame like that, there are no apparent scrapes or scratches which leads me to believe it happened during shipment to the dealer.

    Thanks,

    Funk

    Edit, I added another picture I took this morning just to show how difficult it is to see this dent. The photo above is from a high quality pic I took with my digital camera and then zoomed in on. The one below the dent is not as easily seen due to the flat red paint but it is there.

    Just really frustrated with the situation, I was really looking forward to doing some riding this weekend.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Funktional; 05-06-2005 at 06:15 AM.

  2. #2
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    You are on the right track

    I think posting here and emailing Joe directly is a good first step. The dealer may (or may not) be an advocate as well. Get some warranty facts from Kona FIRST and then approach the dealer. My company is built somewhat like Kona's, small, about 35 employees and work directly with a dealer network. Trust when I say the dealers are not always helpful or accurate when dealing with a warranty claim. We intervene often direct to the consumer through our area sales managers. Finding out who this is could be a big help. In fact I bet it is the same as my area (NY). I bought my Dawg Dee-Lux through TrailBlazers in Victor and the owner told me a lot about Kona (the company) and even mentioned there was a new rep for the Northeast. I could get some more info on that if you want. By all means though contact the dealer, send him the images and your side of the story and he should respond immediately at least with an action plan. If it is determined that the frame was either damaged in manufacturing or shipping Kona should cover the replacement without question.

  3. #3
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    Funk,
    Take the bike to the dealer right away. Structurally, i would not worry about the dent. It's not in a high-stress area of the tubing, so it is not a cause for much concern. Aestetically, i can understand that you're not too happy.
    The bike could have been damaged in shipping, that happens. (of course) But i do not see how your shop could have built the bike and given it to you without seeing the dent first. That is virtually impossible. The could have been dishonest, but again, i really doubt that. Even in the off chance that the mechanic was so low as to not want to tell you, they had to know that you would see it eventually.
    So... i'm stumped. I doubt it got dented in transport from the shop to your house. You would have noticed it, and people are usually extremely careful loading up a new bike for the first time. A fall in your house, landing on just the right thing could dent your bike. Could that have happened? I'm just throwing ideas out here, your guess is as good as mine, but the chances of the bike being damaged in shipping without the shop first calling us is pretty slim.
    Take it in to the shop and see what they say. We'll figure something out, i'm sure. Sorry i'm not being more definitive in my post here, but there's too many possibilities right now.
    Joe.

  4. #4
    Randall "Tex" Cobb
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    Thanks for the input,

    The picture above is kind of misleading as it really is not at all that evident in person. I took so many shots of it and with the exception of the one pic, you could not really notice it in any of the other pictures I took. (See second picture posted, not noticeable at all) I can completely understand how this could have slipped by the shop when they were assembling it, I sat around drooling and staring at the bike all week and only happened to notice it when it was in one specific position. If I hadn't noticed it yesterday there is a good chance I would have ridden it for quite some time without noticing it. I know for sure that it did not happen in my possesion though. There are no scratches on the frame whatsoever, if it did fall on something hard enough to do that kind of a dent, it would surely have scratched the paint. The only paint bleimsh there is at the top and bottom of the dent where there are really fine stress cracks in the paint. This is why I believe it was damaged in shipping. Maybe it was wrapped up and something was placed on top of it which was too heavy, I don't know. The bike shop where I purchased it just opened at 10am so I am going to give them a call. Just not at all looking forward to the long trip and waiting even longer to get out and ride.

  5. #5
    I liked the old *****
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    Bummer ! ! ! I like the colors too. The only non-scratched dent I've seen in a Kona was on a Stinky D: rider induced . . . crash with triple crown bumper flipped around (just behind headset on top-tube).

    I'd work through the Not-So-Local Bike Shop (NSLBS?) remotely if possible to get commitment it is covered from NSLBS, Kona or the carrier. Then use the bike while waiting for replacement frame, and ask for the frame swap while you wait - can't take more than an hour vs. travel time.

    There's no way they couldn't notice one of the dents during setup, and I'd insure they make it as convenient as possible for you. On the odd chance there's a Kona shop that's closer, run it by them too. They may honor it if Kona covers the frame. Local RM shops here have done it, but warranty frequency on RMs are much more frequent than Konas (none here). They end up winning you as a parts/future bike buyer for the cost of a frame swap.

    Good luck

  6. #6
    Shortcutting Hikabiker
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    I just wanna chime in here on behalf of the shop real quick. I work at a bike shop and I myself have put together a few bikes and when I was finsishing up someone from across the room says something about a dent in the bike. I didn't even notice it there. This has happened a few times. Dark matte finishes make it hard to see dents, they might have not noticed it. Now we deal Trek/Fisher mainly and when we get a dented bike from them they usually just discount the price of the bike to us and we would just lower our asking price by whatever Trek discounted us.
    "Listen here you beautiful *****, I'm about to **** you up with some truth"

  7. #7
    Randall "Tex" Cobb
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    Quote Originally Posted by Acme54321
    I just wanna chime in here on behalf of the shop real quick. I work at a bike shop and I myself have put together a few bikes and when I was finsishing up someone from across the room says something about a dent in the bike. I didn't even notice it there. This has happened a few times. Dark matte finishes make it hard to see dents, they might have not noticed it. Now we deal Trek/Fisher mainly and when we get a dented bike from them they usually just discount the price of the bike to us and we would just lower our asking price by whatever Trek discounted us.
    Hey Acme,

    Thanks for the input. I definitely agree with you, and I put no blame whatsoever on the shop. Because of the flat paint and the overlaid decals it is very difficult to notice this dent. The shop has been very helpful to me from the start and took a lot of time just to get me fitted to the bike. Just the fact that they were so helpful and honest is what leads me to believe that it was just an oversight by them and that the dent happened during shipment. We also bought a Trek Fuel 70 for my girlfriend from the shop and everything about it was spot on perfect and she loves the bike.

    As for a discount, I'm just not sure about whether I would take it as an option. If it came down to it being the only option I think I would have to just return the bike and let them pass the discount on to someone else willing to get a great bike with a blemish for a good price.

    Thanks again for your thoughts,

    Funk

  8. #8
    rmb
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    I would not want the discount either, my Dawg Dee Lux came with a slight imperfection in the clear coat on the polished aluminum. A real nothing problem, no damage to the frame and I just fixed it with clear nail polish. Anyway, it bothered me enough to fix it, so a dent would be areal problem for me.

  9. #9
    Randall "Tex" Cobb
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    Progress.........

    Just wanted to give an update on the situation with my Kikapu Deluxe. I still have not had the issue fully resolved but I do want to mention that dealing with Kona was a very pleasant experience. I tried the email thing which didn't seem to work out (might have been due to the email system in my office) but had better luck actually calling Kona directly. I spoke with a guy named Ed who was very informative and honest about the whole thing and filled me in on Kona's procedures for situations like this.

    Basically the bike shop goofed by not looking over the bike completely before assembling it but at the same time, unless it catches just the right angle/lighting, the dent is very difficult to see like I said because of the paint/decals. Part of it is also my fault for not noticing the dent but I picked it up on a Sunday afternoon getting there only a few minutes before the shop closed. I had just driven 7 hours from a wedding I went to in NJ and I still had another 2 hours back to my home in Vermont afterwards so I may not have been as observant as I should have been. I guess I really don't know at what stage of the game the dent happened (Assembly or shipping) but I do respect Kona and their policies for this kind of situation.

    The shop is reluctant to take the bike back with the dent because the owner says he will have a difficult time reselling it even at discount, however I just cannot justify buying a bike this expensive and not receiving anything but a perfect bike. I think I am going to return the bike but I am happy to say that I will stick with Kona because not only am I really impressed with the overall quality of the product I received (Aside from the dent) but I was very happy with the overall sense of customer service I received speaking with Ed at Kona.

    Unfortunately I have missed out on some great riding days here as well as the 1st race of the season at Catamount but I hope this has served as a lesson for other soon to be new bike owners out there and I will keep you updated with the way things progress.

    Thanks again for your replies everyone and Joe Kona too.

    Funk

  10. #10
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    As a compromise, why not get the LBS to refund you some of the money you paid for the bike.

  11. #11
    rm -fr *
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    I bought a Kona Jake the Snake about a month ago and experienced the same issue except the dent was in the head tube. The day after I brought it home, I was checking it out before my first ride and noticed the dent. It wasnt just a scratch but a nice hard edged dent just like the one in your pic. I actually debated whether to take it back in but I just didnt like the fact that a brand new bike was damaged on delivery.

    The LBS was no problem but the particular Kona rep for this shop only offered me a $50 discount on the bike (I didnt talk to them myself, this was relayed from the LBS owner). I declined and requested a new frame. One week later I was riding my new frame. I think the LBS was trying to arrange compensation from Kona for assembling the bike twice but they didnt give me any grief about it

    It stinks when I crash one of my bikes and notice a new ding or scratch but I dont like getting a new bike in this condition.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Funktional
    Just wanted to give an update on the situation with my Kikapu Deluxe. I still have not had the issue fully resolved but I do want to mention that dealing with Kona was a very pleasant experience. I tried the email thing which didn't seem to work out (might have been due to the email system in my office) but had better luck actually calling Kona directly. I spoke with a guy named Ed who was very informative and honest about the whole thing and filled me in on Kona's procedures for situations like this.

    Basically the bike shop goofed by not looking over the bike completely before assembling it but at the same time, unless it catches just the right angle/lighting, the dent is very difficult to see like I said because of the paint/decals. Part of it is also my fault for not noticing the dent but I picked it up on a Sunday afternoon getting there only a few minutes before the shop closed. I had just driven 7 hours from a wedding I went to in NJ and I still had another 2 hours back to my home in Vermont afterwards so I may not have been as observant as I should have been. I guess I really don't know at what stage of the game the dent happened (Assembly or shipping) but I do respect Kona and their policies for this kind of situation.

    The shop is reluctant to take the bike back with the dent because the owner says he will have a difficult time reselling it even at discount, however I just cannot justify buying a bike this expensive and not receiving anything but a perfect bike. I think I am going to return the bike but I am happy to say that I will stick with Kona because not only am I really impressed with the overall quality of the product I received (Aside from the dent) but I was very happy with the overall sense of customer service I received speaking with Ed at Kona.

    Unfortunately I have missed out on some great riding days here as well as the 1st race of the season at Catamount but I hope this has served as a lesson for other soon to be new bike owners out there and I will keep you updated with the way things progress.

    Thanks again for your replies everyone and Joe Kona too.

    Funk
    I laughed when I read how the owner was reluctant to take the bike back because of being unsure if he could resell it, WHO CARES? You paid alot for that bike and you don't deserve it dented.

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