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Thread: Kona JOE

  1. #1
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    Kona JOE

    I have an 04 Coiler Dee with a rear suspension upgrade (03 Stinky rockers)...I built the bike from the frame up and the last few weeks I've had this "rattle" or "knocking" sound rollin over small bumps which seems to be coming from the bottom end somewhere. I've gone through and retightened all the pivot points, pulled the crankset and retightened the bb and crankbolts, unbolted the shock and checked for play in the linkage, checked for play in the rear wheel....can't figure out where it's coming from. It seems to be progressive so I thought I'd see if you had any idea's. One thing that crossed my mind...could it be possible the longer plates are causing the shock to top out?? If so has anyone else incurred this problem with a suspension upgrade (BETD or otherwise)?? I can't think of anything else so please let me know if you have any suggestions. THANKS !!
    - JJ Thompson
    You have bleed with Wallace.....now bleed with me!

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    Quote Originally Posted by VooDoo13
    I have an 04 Coiler Dee with a rear suspension upgrade (03 Stinky rockers)...I built the bike from the frame up and the last few weeks I've had this "rattle" or "knocking" sound rollin over small bumps which seems to be coming from the bottom end somewhere. I've gone through and retightened all the pivot points, pulled the crankset and retightened the bb and crankbolts, unbolted the shock and checked for play in the linkage, checked for play in the rear wheel....can't figure out where it's coming from. It seems to be progressive so I thought I'd see if you had any idea's. One thing that crossed my mind...could it be possible the longer plates are causing the shock to top out?? If so has anyone else incurred this problem with a suspension upgrade (BETD or otherwise)?? I can't think of anything else so please let me know if you have any suggestions. THANKS !!
    - JJ Thompson
    I know i've typed this until i was blue in the face (blue in the fingers?) but i will go ahead and type it again.
    Aftermarket plates for our bikes will VOID THE WARRANTY. Why? For the exact reasons you're stating. All of our bikes are specifically built for the amount of travel provided, and changing that not only changes the shock stroke, but puts undue stress o the shock and certain areas of the frame. I have seen broken frames fro mthis in the past, and i have seen the tire hit the seat tube hard enough to toss a rider in the past, injuring the rider. Not worth it.

    Please do not use aftermarket plates on our bikes.

    Joe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe - Kona
    Sorry, double post
    They're not "after market" plates chief...they're OEM Stinky rockers. I was just looking to hear any idea's you had about what could be causing it, and if you agreed it could be shock related I was considering a DHX. But like the rest of your colleagues at Kona Bikes that I've interacted with so far your smarta$$ attitude makes me sorry I bought a Kona. And I have a degree in engineering so don't bother with the BS routine about how a one inch increase in distance from thrust to pivot (i.e. longer rockers) is going to comprimise the structural integrity of the frame or "your frame will very likely snap completely in half at the bottom bracket" <~~something some chick in the tech department of Kona told me. I'm fairly familiar with M=Fd so save it for the kids. Thanks for your help.
    You have bleed with Wallace.....now bleed with me!

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    Quote Originally Posted by VooDoo13
    They're not "after market" plates chief...they're OEM Stinky rockers. I was just looking to hear any idea's you had about what could be causing it, and if you agreed it could be shock related I was considering a DHX. But like the rest of your colleagues at Kona Bikes that I've interacted with so far your smarta$$ attitude makes me sorry I bought a Kona. And I have a degree in engineering so don't bother with the BS routine about how a one inch increase in distance from thrust to pivot (i.e. longer rockers) is going to comprimise the structural integrity of the frame or "your frame will very likely snap completely in half at the bottom bracket" <~~something some chick in the tech department of Kona told me. I'm fairly familiar with M=Fd so save it for the kids. Thanks for your help.
    You're right, they are OEM Stinky rockers, but that's not what tht bike was designed for. I'm also sorry taht you feel i or anyone else here was anything but sincere. I was not trying to act like a "smarta$$," but was very honestly telling you why changing the rocker arms on our bikes voids the warranty.
    Also, i'm not sure who you spoke to in the tech department, but we have no "chicks" in the tech department. We have basically one person in the tech department in fact.
    If you have an engineering degree, i'm sure you understand what i mean about shock stroke changing (pretty dramatically, at that) and how that can affect the shock. Yes, it also can affect the bike. Yes, it could top out the shock, as you first suggested. That too, can affect the shock's durability and the frame's as well.
    This is why i've posted over and over on this forum and every e-mail that comes my way on this subject that changing out the rocker will void the warranty on the frame.
    Also, whn replacing the rockers, make sure you have an experienced bike mechanic do it if you aren't confident in doing it yourself. Bearings can be damaged by removing and pushing them in incoreectly, and that too can create some interesting sounds.

    Please e-mail me directly at joe@konaworld.com if you have any further questions.

    Cheers,
    Joe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe - Kona
    I know i've typed this until i was blue in the face (blue in the fingers?) but i will go ahead and type it again.
    Aftermarket plates for our bikes will VOID THE WARRANTY. Why? For the exact reasons you're stating. All of our bikes are specifically built for the amount of travel provided, and changing that not only changes the shock stroke, but puts undue stress o the shock and certain areas of the frame. I have seen broken frames fro mthis in the past, and i have seen the tire hit the seat tube hard enough to toss a rider in the past, injuring the rider. Not worth it.

    Please do not use aftermarket plates on our bikes.

    Joe.
    My 01 Stinky D Lux bottoms and hits on the little cable guide all the time. I has a stock shock and a heavier coil. I thought the shock was supposed to bottom before the tire hit the frame. Any thoughts?

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    Nice attitude. He is just doing his job. Degree so what.

    Why come back with an attack? He is just trying to protect people from making fatal mistakes to there frame. Not everyone is an engineer. Plus how in the heck is he suppose to know you are an engineer which really has nothing to do with this. Cheers



    Quote Originally Posted by VooDoo13
    They're not "after market" plates chief...they're OEM Stinky rockers. I was just looking to hear any idea's you had about what could be causing it, and if you agreed it could be shock related I was considering a DHX. But like the rest of your colleagues at Kona Bikes that I've interacted with so far your smarta$$ attitude makes me sorry I bought a Kona. And I have a degree in engineering so don't bother with the BS routine about how a one inch increase in distance from thrust to pivot (i.e. longer rockers) is going to comprimise the structural integrity of the frame or "your frame will very likely snap completely in half at the bottom bracket" <~~something some chick in the tech department of Kona told me. I'm fairly familiar with M=Fd so save it for the kids. Thanks for your help.

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    Nice attitude. He is just doing his job. Degree so what.

    Quote Originally Posted by VooDoo13
    They're not "after market" plates chief...they're OEM Stinky rockers. I was just looking to hear any idea's you had about what could be causing it, and if you agreed it could be shock related I was considering a DHX. But like the rest of your colleagues at Kona Bikes that I've interacted with so far your smarta$$ attitude makes me sorry I bought a Kona. And I have a degree in engineering so don't bother with the BS routine about how a one inch increase in distance from thrust to pivot (i.e. longer rockers) is going to comprimise the structural integrity of the frame or "your frame will very likely snap completely in half at the bottom bracket" <~~something some chick in the tech department of Kona told me. I'm fairly familiar with M=Fd so save it for the kids. Thanks for your help.
    Why come back with an attack? He is just doing his job. Joe is just trying to keep people from making fatal mistakes to there frames. Plus how is he suppose to know you are an engineer. Also what does that have to do with things? He was responding to your question even if you do not like the answer. Hey it's friday can't we all get along?

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    ... and if we just ... Sorry Joe, you were right!!!!

    I was involved in an "arguement" with joe regarding plates on my old '04 coiler. I thought it rode fine, but as I started hitting bigger drops and gaps, I started losing confidence in the rear end of my bike as the shock seemed to struggle with the extra leverage.

    I'm gonna have to side with Joe now and say if you want more travel, buy another frame. I lost so much confidence in the bike that I went out and bought a Demo 8 and now plan to build the coiler up as a light trail bike.

    Again, sorry Joe, I should've just listened!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by RobV
    I was involved in an "arguement" with joe regarding plates on my old '04 coiler. I thought it rode fine, but as I started hitting bigger drops and gaps, I started losing confidence in the rear end of my bike as the shock seemed to struggle with the extra leverage.

    I'm gonna have to side with Joe now and say if you want more travel, buy another frame. I lost so much confidence in the bike that I went out and bought a Demo 8 and now plan to build the coiler up as a light trail bike.

    Again, sorry Joe, I should've just listened!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Rob,
    It's cool to hear that, thanks. I'm not an engineer. I'm not even a pro-level mechanic. Hell, i can keep my bikes and my wife's bikes running smoothly, and that's about the extent of my "mechanical expertise." I do, however, know certain things that should not be done to the bikes we sell here

    One of the reasons we don't make adjustable travel bikes is that they're not as durable... and everyone just leaves the bikes in the longest setting, anyway..

    Cheers,
    Joe.

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    I am not sure if I came across as sarcastic but I was being sincere and would really like to know why my tire rubs on the frame when it bottoms, it seems like a bad idea to design a frame like that. I think you boys at kona are smarter than that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stinky-Supreme
    I am not sure if I came across as sarcastic but I was being sincere and would really like to know why my tire rubs on the frame when it bottoms, it seems like a bad idea to design a frame like that. I think you boys at kona are smarter than that.
    Yr tire rubs becuz the frame was not designed for the xtra travel !!
    Find some geometrycharts for yr bike and look up the chainstaylenght ! U will most def. find that they are shorter than the Stinky yr new plates came from.
    Chainstays on the Stinkys have gotten longer for each year as the travel has increased , They have to as Konas are singlepivot designs and the wheel travels in an arc , getting closer to seattube at the end of travel.
    Cheers

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    Quote Originally Posted by caspar
    Yr tire rubs becuz the frame was not designed for the xtra travel !!
    Find some geometrycharts for yr bike and look up the chainstaylenght ! U will most def. find that they are shorter than the Stinky yr new plates came from.
    Chainstays on the Stinkys have gotten longer for each year as the travel has increased , They have to as Konas are singlepivot designs and the wheel travels in an arc , getting closer to seattube at the end of travel.
    Cheers
    So your saying that my bike isn't made for the travel that it has? Doesn't make alot of sense. I should also probably mention that I have STOCK rocker arms on the bike also. I'm selling the bike because it is so annoying. Any explaination Joe?

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    Im confused.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Stinky-Supreme
    So your saying that my bike isn't made for the travel that it has? Doesn't make alot of sense. I should also probably mention that I have STOCK rocker arms on the bike also. I'm selling the bike because it is so annoying. Any explaination Joe?
    IN yr 1st post U say that u have put Stinky plates on yr Coiler right ?
    So Uve taken a stock 5" Coiler and put some Stinky plates on it to get 6" of rear travel , right ?
    And thats when the rubbing started right ?
    Or does it also rub in its bonestock configuration ?
    Cheers

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stinky-Supreme
    So your saying that my bike isn't made for the travel that it has? Doesn't make alot of sense. I should also probably mention that I have STOCK rocker arms on the bike also. I'm selling the bike because it is so annoying. Any explaination Joe?
    Did you say this was a 2001 Stinky Dee-Lux? What cable guide is the tire hitting? Have you taken it to your shop to get looked at yet?

    Sorry for all of the questions, i'm jsut trying to understand exactly what is going on. I used too own a Stinky DL from that year, and never had this issue myself.

    Please give me as many specifics as you can, and i will help you as best i can. If you haven't taken your bike into a Kona dealer yet, i suggest you do that right away.

    Cheers,
    Joe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by caspar
    Yr tire rubs becuz the frame was not designed for the xtra travel !!
    Find some geometrycharts for yr bike and look up the chainstaylenght ! U will most def. find that they are shorter than the Stinky yr new plates came from.
    Chainstays on the Stinkys have gotten longer for each year as the travel has increased , They have to as Konas are singlepivot designs and the wheel travels in an arc , getting closer to seattube at the end of travel.
    Cheers
    Caspar,
    I'm going to have to ask what you mean by saying Konas have single pivot designs. I keep looking at our bikes, and i swear there's four bars there! This marketing lingo of what really is and isn't four bars has gotten so far out of hand that it's borderline comical.

    Time for more coffee,
    Joe.

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    My def. of a singlepivot...

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe - Kona
    Caspar,
    I'm going to have to ask what you mean by saying Konas have single pivot designs. I keep looking at our bikes, and i swear there's four bars there! This marketing lingo of what really is and isn't four bars has gotten so far out of hand that it's borderline comical.
    Time for more coffee,
    Joe.
    is quite simple : 1 single pivotpoint btwn rearaxel and mainframe ! All the other pivots on a Kona(and Banshee and Trek and the others that copied the Stinky) is just(in my book) the means to get desired rearend stiffness/rate/shock accentuation/shock placement/what not.
    Dont get me wrong , I find nothing wrong with a 4 bar shockaccentuated singlepivot bike, all else being equal its gotta be stiffer in the rear than a FSR 4-bar.

    And im perfectly happy with my 03 Stinky Dee , (that replaced my 01 Stinky Primo) and my 97 KingKahuna(the Ti HT)
    And now that I got yr attention , do you by any chance have any 2-4s left somewhere?
    Cheers

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    Quote Originally Posted by caspar
    is quite simple : 1 single pivotpoint btwn rearaxel and mainframe ! All the other pivots on a Kona(and Banshee and Trek and the others that copied the Stinky) is just(in my book) the means to get desired rearend stiffness/rate/shock accentuation/shock placement/what not.
    Dont get me wrong , I find nothing wrong with a 4 bar shockaccentuated singlepivot bike, all else being equal its gotta be stiffer in the rear than a FSR 4-bar.

    And im perfectly happy with my 03 Stinky Dee , (that replaced my 01 Stinky Primo) and my 97 KingKahuna(the Ti HT)
    And now that I got yr attention , do you by any chance have any 2-4s left somewhere?
    Cheers
    Nope, no 2-4s left. Sorry. I wish there were, I'd get one!

    Okay, i went out into the warehouse and bounced around on a 2004 Stinky Primo and looked at it pretty closely.
    The lower mount (right behind the bottom bracket) pivots.
    The middle of the rocker (where it attaches to the seat tube) pivots.
    The rocker/chainstay pivots.
    The seatstay just above the chainstay pivots, albeit only a little bit.

    4!

    The wheelpath arc from a 7" travel Stinky and a 7" Horst-link IS different. Put the two different frames on the machine that measures the arc, and you will see that the difference is 3 millimeters at the end of the arc. Is that 3 mm what makes some call the non-Horst link design we use a single pivot? There are still 4-bars in our suspension system.

    This is just one of those things i have never been able to understand, i guess. There are a lot of single-pivot bikes out there, and they are pretty easy to spot, because they have 1 pivot, and nothing on the rear end of the bike pivots.

    Joe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by caspar
    IN yr 1st post U say that u have put Stinky plates on yr Coiler right ?
    So Uve taken a stock 5" Coiler and put some Stinky plates on it to get 6" of rear travel , right ?
    And thats when the rubbing started right ?
    Or does it also rub in its bonestock configuration ?
    Cheers
    In my first post I said that I have a 01 stinky d, stock everything

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe - Kona
    Did you say this was a 2001 Stinky Dee-Lux? What cable guide is the tire hitting? Have you taken it to your shop to get looked at yet?

    Sorry for all of the questions, i'm jsut trying to understand exactly what is going on. I used too own a Stinky DL from that year, and never had this issue myself.

    Please give me as many specifics as you can, and i will help you as best i can. If you haven't taken your bike into a Kona dealer yet, i suggest you do that right away.

    Cheers,
    Joe.
    -2001 Stinky Dee lux, stock plates, chainstays, shock, everything
    -Rubbing on the guide that holds the cable for the front derailluer
    -Only rubs when it bottoms, rubbing occurs for a second or two
    -It has been through the shop several times, I never did mention it tho
    -Nothing is bent or cracked, it has done this for a season or two
    -I'm not really worried about it cause it is for sale, and I just ordered a Stinky Supreme

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