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Thread: coiler comments

  1. #1
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    coiler comments

    I was riding a sugar 3 for a few years, then I decided I wanted a longer travel bike so I got a big hit spec. Long story short the sugar 3 is too wimpy and the big hit is 42 pounds. I wanted something in between so the coiler caught my attention. Im 6'2" with long legs and never thought I would have a standover problem but when I tested the 19" frame I had about and inch to spare between my nutz and the tt. I tried a 18" 04 dee-lux and it wasn't much better. I havent tried the 17" but I don't see myself buying a 17"-WTF kona. Also the stem seems pretty long for a freeride bike, easy fix but not if your tall and have to buy a small frame. It looks like a great bike, with great reviews, but out of all the reviews I can't believe that this isn't mentioned. Is there a bunch of 6'6" riders out there? I really want a proven bike but I may end up going with a scott nitrious.

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    I found the same problem...I've been trying to decide between a Prophet and a coiler for weeks now and I'm still up in the air. The coiler is a great bike , but for me (at 5'11) a 17" bike has no standover!

  3. #3
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    You guys must remember that the coiler has 6" of travel so it has to have rather high standover to support the suspension.

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    My 2003 Giant AC with 6.5" of travel had gobs of standover...you'd think Kona could do it if Giant could?

  5. #5
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    well this is my only reason why the standover is so high, this is what I was told so this is what I belive

  6. #6
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    I have an 05 Coiler and the standover is indeed high. I am 6'2'' with about a 33 inseam and I am riding a 19. At first it is a bit intimidating, but it is easy to get used to it. You will learn very quickly the art of tilting when you come to a stop. I liken it to learning to use clipless pedals, after only a short time its not a problem. The geometry and handling of the frame is just sick, there is a reason they spec'd it this way. I ride mine basically XC with some occasional medium sized drops. My beef with the bike is that with the rise on the handlebars it is difficult for me to put enough weight on the front in order to keep it from breaking loose in the turns. I have really had some good spills this past month! I see the method to shiggy's madness by running drops on his coiler now! Not thinking of that, but at least some low or no rise handlebars anyway. Is this the proper way to fix this or add some psi to the fork or just learn how to ride differently?

  7. #7
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    i'd try a lower stem first...

    ... unless you still have headset spacers under the stem. If you do have spacers under the stem, you've got some room to lower the bars without swapping out parts. If not, perhaps looking for a stem with the same length, but less rise (for example, if you have a 10 degree rise stem on now, consider going with a 5 degree, or even a 0 degree). That will help get your weight down on the front more effectively.

    as far as the high TT on the coiler goes, i think that the reason giant and others get away with lower topdubes is because they either bend them, or they mount them lower on the seattube with a bracing tube at the TT/ST junction. kona has chosen (thus far) to go with a more traditional frame design, utilizing relatively straight tubing. my experience on the 2004 Stinky D that i've been riding lately suggests that the lack of standover isn't really an issue except for getting onto and off of the bike. that's when the height of the top tube is most noticable. i've lost pedals over drops and have never once hit the top tube with deez nutz. the seat always gets me first!

    if it freaks you out, by all means, go with another bike, but my experience suggests that you can probably make it work.

    good luck!!
    mg

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by dingleberry
    I have an 05 Coiler and the standover is indeed high. I am 6'2'' with about a 33 inseam and I am riding a 19. At first it is a bit intimidating, but it is easy to get used to it. You will learn very quickly the art of tilting when you come to a stop. I liken it to learning to use clipless pedals, after only a short time its not a problem. The geometry and handling of the frame is just sick, there is a reason they spec'd it this way. I ride mine basically XC with some occasional medium sized drops. My beef with the bike is that with the rise on the handlebars it is difficult for me to put enough weight on the front in order to keep it from breaking loose in the turns. I have really had some good spills this past month! I see the method to shiggy's madness by running drops on his coiler now! Not thinking of that, but at least some low or no rise handlebars anyway. Is this the proper way to fix this or add some psi to the fork or just learn how to ride differently?

    Acually getting more weight up front is VERY easy. Just move your seat a bit forward, I swear it's as easy as that! I would try that before messing with the handle bars. The bars and stem are made that way specificly for longer travel FR bikes. I guarantee you will lose tons of steering quickness and DH stability if you move the bars forward and drop them.

    Just moving the seat forward 1//4 inch can make a difference in how much pressure the front tire has on it. With FR bikes, you also have to learn to put your head into corners first and point it where you want to go, pretty much throw your weight forward and through the turn. Make the bike follow you, not the other way around. I guarantee it will turn better.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by dingleberry
    ... I see the method to shiggy's madness by running drops on his coiler now! Not thinking of that, but at least some low or no rise handlebars anyway. Is this the proper way to fix this or add some psi to the fork or just learn how to ride differently?
    My hand position with the dropbars is pretty much the same as the stock stem and riser bar. Because of the stem I can easily change it.

    A longer and/or lower stem can help get more weight on the front end. Easy enough to test it by moving spacers out from under the stem or flipping it over.

    Other factors do include the frame design: head angle, long travel, long wheelbase (just does not turn as quickly); weight of the bike (takes more effort to change direction); technique (different types of bikes can require different riding styles).

    I am still learning about how my Coiler wants to be ridden.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by MicroHuck
    Acually getting more weight up front is VERY easy. Just move your seat a bit forward,
    Or just slide forward on the saddle.


    ...The bars and stem are made that way specificly for longer travel FR bikes. I guarantee you will lose tons of steering quickness and DH stability if you move the bars forward and drop them.
    Assuming the fit is correct in the first place. Generally I am more comfortable and have better control on any bike with a long-low posture. Makes it possible for me to do what you suggest below.
    Dingleberry said he rides mainly XC so longer/lower is very appropriate.


    Just moving the seat forward 1//4 inch can make a difference in how much pressure the front tire has on it. With FR bikes, you also have to learn to put your head into corners first and point it where you want to go, pretty much throw your weight forward and through the turn. Make the bike follow you, not the other way around. I guarantee it will turn better.
    Good advice for any bike. It is just more dramatic on the heavier boys.
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  11. #11
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    Moving saddles forward...

    good points on moving the saddle forward. i typically run my saddle pretty far forward on all of my bikes.

    again, good luck in your quest to get better climbing performance. the '05 coilers i've ridden seem like they have the capability to climb pretty well, despite their weight.

    cheers,
    mg

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by mgersib
    good points on moving the saddle forward. i typically run my saddle pretty far forward on all of my bikes.

    again, good luck in your quest to get better climbing performance. the '05 coilers i've ridden seem like they have the capability to climb pretty well, despite their weight.

    cheers,
    mg
    Yes, the Coiler does climb well for the type of bike it is. My Coiler DL climbs well for any type of bike.

    The discussion is about the front washing out in corners. Not about climbing.
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  13. #13
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    man, thanks for setting me straight...

    ... i was confused. man, shiggy. thanks for setting me straight dude.
    mg
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    There's also the matter of what type of front tire you're using. Bikes with a leaned back position benefit greatly from using super soft rubber compounds up front. I HIGHLY rec. using a DH tire up front with ramped square knobs and big side knobs.

    A heavier DH tire will weight the front down better, as well as allow for softer air pressures (while still maintaining cornering control) for more grip. A soft 40-44 duro compound is great for a front tire where you lose less in efficiency by using a slower tire. It won't slow you down much and make you faster in the corners (as well as safer).

    The Kenda Blue Groove and Nevegal tires are ideal for a fast yet grippy front tire. Also check out any of the Maxxis Minion or HighRoller 42a super tacky tires.

    If you want a harder/ faster front tire that still digs into corners, try any of the Nokian Gozallodi tires.

    A sticky front tire is super crucial in bike handling. Unless you ride 100% hardpack, I would stay away from any of the MAxxis tires that are not the SuperTacky 42a duro.

  15. #15
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    I would rather have weight on the front. I hate the feel of a floaty front end.

    Weighted front end AND a sticky rubber. Now that really rails the corners.
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    Opposite of Shiggy

    I much prefer a rearward riding position,To me it feels more stable.If you're hovering over the front tire and it washes out your gonna crash,with my weight off of the back it can push the front tire some and I can catch it by dragging the rear brake.

    But it's whatever feels good to you,but also don't be afraid to try new things.


    Doug

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by DMay
    I much prefer a rearward riding position,To me it feels more stable.If you're hovering over the front tire and it washes out your gonna crash,with my weight off of the back it can push the front tire some and I can catch it by dragging the rear brake.

    But it's whatever feels good to you,but also don't be afraid to try new things.


    Doug
    I will bet my method is faster in most conditions.

    I am balanced on the bike with a forward bias. Not "hovering over the front tire". I believe most riders are too far back on their bikes to corner effectively. Keeping weight on the front increases traction, reducing the chance of washout and "push".
    Being balanced rather than using and extreme forward or extreme back position allows for quick and subtle weight shifts for maximum control and traction.
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    I bet your method IS faster in most conditions,but speed is no concern of mine,and like I said,do what feels good to you.
    If you take sportbikes for example,They're definately the way to go fast on a motorcycle but when the front wheel loses traction you eat it immeadiately(personal experience)
    MX bikes have a riding position just like a Downhill bike that seems to work good for any riding conditions you come accoss,I rode harescrambles for many years and I actually got faster through the woods when I stopped trying to ride up over the front wheel (as the motorcycle magazines all said I must do)and raised up my handlebars about a inch and a half,I even scooted back on the seat and steered with my arms out in front of me.This let me relax quite a bit and I could race hard for a much longer time also.
    I think it may also come down to where you ride at,Indiana here seems to have pretty good traction most of the time or be muddy slick stuff.

    I do believe that your riding position really lets you put the power down big time,I bet everyone secretly hates riding with you 'cause you probably just hammer there azz all the time.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by DMay
    I bet your method IS faster in most conditions,but speed is no concern of mine,and like I said,do what feels good to you...
    I will just say if you are not going quickly and the front wheel is pushing/washing you need to re-think your technique.
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  20. #20
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    I don't have washout riding at my normal speed,I don't even have washout when riding fast,my setup works well for me without being over the front wheel in a uncomfortable position.If I give up just a little ultimate speed over a scientifically tested "most efficient" riding position who gives a damn?I don't enjoy riding a max speed possible for every instant I'm on my bike.
    I only had a issue with push was when I ran a Mobster 60d on the front of my Stinky,and it was only on one turn on all the dh trails I ran,one turn.It was a off camber hardpacked turn that was atypical of all the rest on the trails I ran with that bike.Once I switched to the more rounded profile High Roller it totally went away.100%But the solution for that circumstance when I still had the Mobster on was not more weight on the front tire,that actually made the push worse.The best cure I found was to start pedalling which takes weight off of the front transfering it to the rear,and boosted my speed down the next straight.After switching to the High Roller I found I no longer had to pedal as early so I lost a few pedal strokes and as such a little overall speed on each run.I weighed my options and decided that pedalling out of a push condition was too unnerving to do on a regular basis,not being a racer I decided on "comfort".
    My current trail bike setup on my Chute(which has a slack 68 degree headtube) is a Tioga 2.1dh front tire.It always sticks in every corner,and I run a 45mm stem with dh handlebars.Sure, I'd be faster overall with some scrawny 1.9 something or other,but I like traction and security.

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