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  1. #1
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    A WOODIE for my Chili

    Currently running a CCDB coil on the Chili and love it. More recently I upgraded my Lyrik with the Avy cartridge and it is amazing, leading me to realize the CCDB is lacking just a bit in the high speed department. A quick call, to Craig and about 40 minutes later I had this beauty on order. I have had a Chubie and a DHS on Turners in the past, both were excellent, so I can only imagine how this is going to work with the Knolly.

    I tend to subscribe to the "bigger is better" motto, and this certainly is bigger. The reservoir is actually larger than the shock body Plenty of oil in there. I am a bit concerned about fitment, though my initial measurements say it will fit, but I will find out in a few hours. I will try to provide a good comparisons between the shocks, though I think they will be subtle at best.

    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/tisser/7839890528/" title="photo by tiSS'er, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8434/7839890528_9f23bebeab_b.jpg" width="765" height="1024" alt="photo"></a>
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  2. #2
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    Excellent. Keeps us informed.

  3. #3
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    mamma bear, that is some hot seks.
    "Mi amor Nuevo Miércoles!"

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  4. #4
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    Your the test pilot for the Chili's

  5. #5
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    Just weighed it, 2lbs exactly with a 500lb coil.
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  6. #6
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    Cool! Keep us posted!!!

  7. #7
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    Avy shocks are awesome. I was wondering why Craig recommended the Woody over the Chubie for the Chili?

    I have been running a Fox dhx with the Avy tune and I have been very pleased; as with the Avy shocks I have run in the past.

    While you are at it could you give us an update on your Avy Lyrik? I am very tempted but the $400 is hard to swallow.

    Thanks.
    TG

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by G-AIR View Post

    While you are at it could you give us an update on your Avy Lyrik? I am very tempted but the $400 is hard to swallow.

    Thanks.
    TG

    Haha, funny you mention that b/c I emailed him just the other day asking about it, after really enjoying my DHX Avy (thanks again for the recommendation BTW. )

    I rode a friends 888 on his DHR last weekend, and it had the Avy cart in it. OMG, that was the best feeling fork I have EVER felt, hands down. It was ridiculous.
    If jackasses could fly this place would be an airport.

  9. #9
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    Massive! Looking forward to reading your comparisons.

  10. #10
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    Sweet shock!

  11. #11
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    Whoa! A bit if a tight fit. There is actually some space in there. It fits fine in the slack setting which I never run. The useless parking lot test was rather enlightening. I only have a square curb to hit, but it handled it easily as well as the CCDB, probably better. I may have to dial up a few clicks of LSC to get the pedaling performance of the CCDB. The shock does ride higher, probably due to the heavier spring. I can't wait to get out this weekend and tear it up!

    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/tisser/7841534968/" title="IMG_4433 by tiSS'er, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8443/7841534968_8be28f712b_b.jpg" width="1024" height="768" alt="IMG_4433"></a>

    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/tisser/7841534254/" title="IMG_4434 by tiSS'er, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8284/7841534254_245229aee5_b.jpg" width="1024" height="768" alt="IMG_4434"></a>

    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/tisser/7841533382/" title="IMG_4436 by tiSS'er, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8284/7841533382_7c24583c95_b.jpg" width="1024" height="768" alt="IMG_4436"></a>

    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/tisser/7841535618/" title="IMG_4437 by tiSS'er, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8432/7841535618_18e01c7f9f_b.jpg" width="1024" height="768" alt="IMG_4437"></a>
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  12. #12
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    Damn, that be nice.
    Even having a CCDB, those things do hold my interest. 'bout the only thing that does!!
    Whats the weight difference between the CCDB and Avy.

    Looking forward to the review!!

    michael
    A Dirtbag since 1969
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    Knolly Podium
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by G-AIR View Post
    Avy shocks are awesome. I was wondering why Craig recommended the Woody over the Chubie for the Chili?

    I have been running a Fox dhx with the Avy tune and I have been very pleased; as with the Avy shocks I have run in the past.

    While you are at it could you give us an update on your Avy Lyrik? I am very tempted but the $400 is hard to swallow.

    Thanks.
    TG
    Chubie vs. Woodie - The Chili is a rising rate suspension. As such, Craig recommends the Woodie since it is a more linear shock. The Chubie is better suited for bikes that have a falling rate and need the IFP to provide additional ramp/bottoming resistance. The Chili needs no such thing, and the Woodie allows for additional HSC tuning with the larger reservoir.

    The Avy Cartridge - damn good. It is actually one of the reasons I began to explore this option of the Woodie. The cartridge has pointed out a few flaws in the CCDB which I have been unable to dial out. The cartridge has converted what I think is one of the best damped forks on the market, and blows it away. Being open bath, the fork feels much smoother now, isn't divey, and I am near certain you couldn't tell it is an air fork. It is so linear and smooth, yet has a beautiful hydrolic ramp at the end, without being spikey. I don't think you will find an aftermarket fork on the market that will come even close.

    I spoke to Craig about his DHX kits, and he said is is getting Woodie performance out of them. He is really excited about it, and the it has done very well for him. I know a few guys here have it and are blown away.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by mykel View Post
    Damn, that be nice.
    Even having a CCDB, those things do hold my interest. 'bout the only thing that does!!
    Whats the weight difference between the CCDB and Avy.

    Looking forward to the review!!

    michael
    Yeah, Avy is the only shock I think that is a step above the CCDB. Having the Avy cartridge, I couldn't get past the idea of having a fully Avy'd bike The Avy weighs 2lbs exactly with coil and hardware. Not sure what the CCDB weighs, but it can't be much more or less. I think the Avy coil is actually lighter. Seems like the CCDB has a tighter coil.
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  15. #15
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    You are going to LOVE the Avalanche Woodie
    I currently have an Avalanche DHS shock on my V-Tach along with an Avalanche DHF-8MT fork... I also have an Avy cartridge in my Totem thats on my Delirium T that is soon going to have Craigs valving in the RC4 shock...

    I tell all my friends that as much as I like the fork, I'm even more impressed with Craigs shock

    and I mean that too!!!!! not only are they incredibly plush, but they are soooo durable..Just look at the difference in the shaft diameter on the two shocks in the pic above..

    My V-tach came with a CCDB and the first thing I did was put the DHS shock on it

    my friends and I have been running Avalanche forks and shocks for over ten years !!!
    hitting big drops every week !!!!
    I can honestly tell you that none of us has ever had a problem not even a leaking seal
    Avalanche products are insanely reliable !!!!!

    thanks Craig and i'll be talking to you soon about getting my RC4 done

  16. #16
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    Simple fix to the tight issue above...I just moved the cable to the outside of the cable stop. Simple and no modifications

    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/tisser/7841765064/" title="IMG_4438 by tiSS'er, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8287/7841765064_dda1b2e546_b.jpg" width="1024" height="768" alt="IMG_4438"></a>

    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/tisser/7841765380/" title="IMG_4440 by tiSS'er, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8442/7841765380_a01619768e_b.jpg" width="1024" height="768" alt="IMG_4440"></a>
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  17. #17
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    nice

    can't wait to read your review myself...

    goodluck with it and nice bike

  18. #18
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    Holy sheeeeiittt that is a tight fit!!!
    If jackasses could fly this place would be an airport.

  19. #19
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    What about turning the shock upside down? Depending on the pieces it may provide a bit more room.

  20. #20
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    Someone asked earlier, my backup (well backup until I sell it) CCDB coil with a 500 lb steel spring and the Chili mounting hardware is 889 grams.
    If jackasses could fly this place would be an airport.

  21. #21
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    Really enjoy your write ups and looking forward to your next review. Interested to hear how the front now jives with the back.

    I had the SSD mod done to a DHX Air. I'm pretty damn impressed, the only other shock I can compere it to is the ELKA that I had my One before hand. Although sometimes I find it to be a little progressive, the SSD DHX continues to remain very consistent, predictable and lively. At this stage I cant see myself switching back to the Elka anytime soon.

    Man, if Craig was to do a cartridge for Marz's 55's I'd happily drop the $$$ tomorrow.

  22. #22
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    Avy's

    Craig really knows his sh*t when it comes to suspension.....and he'll talk to you about it for hours. I have had the Woodie on my bikes since my Delirium T. It really outperforms all of the other shocks for the Knolly suspension. As you described, it works well with the progressiveness of the Knollys. I had a Canfiled Jedi and the shock that came with it just didn't work. I talked to some people and they recommended the Woodie, so I spent a few hours talking to Craig and he set me up with the Woodie. It transformed the bike and I was sold. Tempted to get the Avy cartridge for the 40, but I already love that fork. Got the "Woodie" on my Podium and Delirium.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails A WOODIE for my Chili-avys.jpg  

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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiSS'er View Post
    Having the Avy cartridge, I couldn't get past the idea of having a fully Avy'd bike
    Just sent my DHX 5.0 for the SSD AVY treatment and that was one of my concerns. Once the shock is working really well..... am I going to be disappointed in the 66RC3ti up front..... thus necessitating the AVY cartridge to "balance things out"?

    Darn you, Craig!
    Last edited by KRob; 08-23-2012 at 05:57 PM.
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  24. #24
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    Avy is the way to go for sure

  25. #25
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    Geez, I am way behind,
    I havent get my Chili yet and you guys are already talking upgrades,

    Nice setup Tisser
    Can't wait for your ride report
    When trails gets tougher, Just stand up and deliver.

  26. #26
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    tiSS'er. I knew you would like the avy cart in your lyrik; mine blows me away every ride. It's an avy product; it has to be great! It's on my el guapo, which I hope by next spring will host an woodie as well.
    Tomorrow I receive a new chubbie for my ancient 5 spot, and I'm so pumped! Enjoy your avy equipped bike!
    ****

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by KRob View Post
    Just sent my DHX 5.0 for the SSD AVY treatment and that was one of my concerns. Once the shock is working really well..... am I going to be disappointed in the 66RC3ti up front..... thus necessitating the AVY cartridge to "balance things out"?

    Darn you, Craig!
    Sorry dude, you know what they say..."when you go Avy, you never go back"...errr, something like that.

    Seriously, I have never been happier with a fork than I am now. Hoping the Woodie treats me the same...Saturday is approaching
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  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    tiSS'er. I knew you would like the avy cart in your lyrik; mine blows me away every ride. It's an avy product; it has to be great! It's on my el guapo, which I hope by next spring will host an woodie as well.
    Tomorrow I receive a new chubbie for my ancient 5 spot, and I'm so pumped! Enjoy your avy equipped bike!
    I was wondering when you were going to chime in. I really like the new CCDB, but it still has some of the characteristics of old versio with respect to the HSC. I really wasn't impressed with the shock on the RFX, but it works very well on the Chili. My only concern with the Woodie at this time is the LSC, and how it smooths out the small stuff. The CCDB is amazing in this capacity.
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  29. #29
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    I can't keep a straight face while reading this thread. Here's short compilation of my favorite lines:

    "A WOODIE for my Chili"... "I tend to subscribe to the "bigger is better" motto, and this certainly is bigger."

    "mamma bear, that is some hot seks."

    "Massive! Looking forward to reading your comparisons."

    "It is actually one of the reasons I began to explore this option of the Woodie."

    "...those things do hold my interest. 'bout the only thing that does!!"

    "I tell all my friends that as much as I like the fork, I'm even more impressed with Craigs shock and I mean that too!!!!! not only are they incredibly plush, but they are soooo durable..Just look at the difference in the shaft diameter on the two shocks in the pic above..:

    "Holy sheeeeiittt that is a tight fit!!!"

    "...the only other shock I can compere it to is the ELKA that I had my One before hand."

    "sounds like you need to find a better mechanic..." -- Calhoun

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by rscecil007 View Post
    Someone asked earlier, my backup (well backup until I sell it) CCDB coil with a 500 lb steel spring and the Chili mounting hardware is 889 grams.
    2 lbs = 907 grams.

    889 grams = 1.96 lbs.
    "sounds like you need to find a better mechanic..." -- Calhoun

  31. #31
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    Also looking forward for more comments about Woodie/ Chubie. Chatted with Craig last winter when planning to pick up Chubie for Chili, but then decided to held my horses...
    I was not sure about fitting in M-sized frame and realized that I cannot use any of my springs because of bigger ID those shocks requires .

    My temporary solution was then get tuned DB Coil, wanted less HSC and higher speed rebounds and I got those. In fact, when my DB Air and DB Coil are in my preferred adjustments, I cannot realize which one is there in use.

  32. #32
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    Man, this thread is really making me want to buy that Avy cart for my Lyrik with money I absolutely do not have.

    I want my front end to feel like my back end now.
    If jackasses could fly this place would be an airport.

  33. #33
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    Hi tiss'er

    Please could you tell me if your Lyric is coil or air.

    Would the Woodie fit in the other way around?

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by loamranger View Post
    Please could you tell me if your Lyric is coil or air.

    Would the Woodie fit in the other way around?
    Are you going to forgo your Deville and CCDB?
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  35. #35
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    The Lyric/Avi might be used as an insurance policy against something going wrong with the BOS, now that R53 are not handling BOS in the UK anymore. I can get a cartridge in 3 days and fit it to a used Lyric quicker than it would take BOS in France to turn things around.....up to 3 months I've heard. Anyhow, it might be better? I'm interested to find out.

    I intend comparing the DBair with the BOS Stoy. I need to spend some time on the DBair before I make the switch to the Stoy. I'm very curious about how the Woodie compares.

  36. #36
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    reach around?

    here is another one for you TSC

    Quote Originally Posted by rscecil007 View Post
    I want my front end to feel like my back end now.
    "Mi amor Nuevo Miércoles!"

    -cabra cadabra

  37. #37
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    Anyone using one of these shocks on their Podium?

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by meeeeep View Post
    Anyone using one of these shocks on their Podium?
    I'm not sure, but soon as my Podium shows up and I get a bit of down time on it (read as: winter), the RC4 is going to Craig. That's the whole reason I ordered it with that shock.
    If jackasses could fly this place would be an airport.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by rscecil007 View Post
    Man, this thread is really making me want to buy that Avy cart for my Lyrik with money I absolutely do not have.

    I want my front end to feel like my back end now.
    Maybe we can get a group deal.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by loamranger View Post
    Hi tiss'er

    Please could you tell me if your Lyric is coil or air.

    Would the Woodie fit in the other way around?
    I believe tiSS'er was on an air, looking to go coil 170mm, but don't know if he did that.
    I have the avy cart in a 160mm u-turn coil.
    ****

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiSS'er View Post
    I was wondering when you were going to chime in. I really like the new CCDB, but it still has some of the characteristics of old versio with respect to the HSC. I really wasn't impressed with the shock on the RFX, but it works very well on the Chili. My only concern with the Woodie at this time is the LSC, and how it smooths out the small stuff. The CCDB is amazing in this capacity.
    Somewhat off-topic; I just received my chubbie for the 5 spot and bolted it on, did the ride around the property thing [parking lot test] and GOD does it feel great! Like that " coming home feeling". Avalanche suspension is the nectar of the Gods,. I can't wait untill I can afford to buy more Avalanche [ like skip buying essential things for the house, food, electric bills etc.]
    ****

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by loamranger View Post
    Hi tiss'er

    Please could you tell me if your Lyric is coil or air.

    Would the Woodie fit in the other way around?
    Solo Air. The shock won't fit upside down.
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  43. #43
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    Today was my first ride on the Woodie, so I thought I would post some initial thoughts. For the ride, we headed up National, which is a bit of a tech climb, not too crazy, and headed down Viejo, which is a slower, techy, chunky ride, which has been made worse (or better in our case ) by the recent rains.

    I only made one adjustment today, I added 1 click of rebound. I have learned it is best to ride the setup that Craig sends, because usually it is pretty close to what you are looking for. The climbing and low speed climbing was excellent. The shock is not quite as supple as the CCDB, likely due to the 500lb spring (450LB on the CCDB). But, it was hardly enough to notice a difference. For the few tech climb moves, I had no issue with traction. I actually found that I was not even noticing what the shock was doing, a pretty good thing in my book. The shock doesn't "squat" as much as the CCDB, again, partially due to the spring difference, but you can fee the LSC doing its thing here. The bike sat up just a bit higher, keeping the front even more planted. The bike felt like it was pedaling a bit better as well.

    When we hit the downs, the shock acted as expected, with a few issues which need to be tuned out. For nearly all of the descent, the shock tore it up. I did have a few high speed hits in which the shock felt a bit harsh. This is a bit difficult to diagnose, as the trails were pretty tore up and we don't ride Viejo as frequently as we should. So I can't say how the CCDB would handled the hits. Again, for most of the ride, the rear end disappeared beneath me, and I never noticed it going about its job. I did seem to carry a bunch more speed than usual.

    Tomorrows ride will be a very telling ride. This is a ride that I have done a ton during the summer, so I am very familiar with how the bike rides. The climb is nothing but tech, with extended sections of steps. The CCDB would just destroy this climb, I am hoping for the same from the Avy. The decent is a screamer, and the CCDB did pretty well here as well. I am expecting the Avy to do even better.

    I have made a few changes to the shock for tomorrows ride. I removed 1 click of LSC to get just a bit more supple ride on the small stuff, and I added 1/4 turn of HSC for the harsher hits. Craig sent the shock with the near minimum HSC.

    I will report back tomorrow, hopefully with a big 'ol smile on my face!
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  44. #44
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    Another ride in the books, and a good one at that.

    The climb up Kiwanis is a good tech climb with many, many steps. The Woodie climbed better than expected. The LSC really works well, and the bike has a less mushy feel than the CCDB. The square hits were smoothed nicely and traction was excellent.

    The descent down Holbert has become a speed challenge for me with the Chili. The bike can easily handle the rocky, ledgy, granite filled trails. For me it is about hitting my line consistently, and each time just a bit faster. The Woodie did a nice job today, but it is till not where I want it. The shock still has a slight harshness to it. This is most likely due to the low HSC setting. I did add 1/8th of a turn after the ride, as well as I removed 1 more click of LSC to make the shock just a bit more active. The change in the performance from yesterday to today was amazing with just one less click of LSC and 1/4 turn more HSC.

    The fork and shock have a very similar feel, which is something I was looking for. With the recent rains, the trails are really tore up, so a completely fair comparison on today's ride was a bit impossible. After only 2 rides, I still have a lot of tuning to do. At this point, I would still give the overall nod to the CCDB, but i expect that will change with time, I can feel the potential of the Woodie.

    More to come.
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    tiSS'er for what's it's worth; the last two chubbies I owned [ about 3-4 years ago] had about a 6 hour break in time to them. Other chubbie owners noticed the same thing. I had my inagural ride today, and I anticipate the same. As much as I want to do a whole lot of tuning changes, I am going to hold off, let the shock break in, and let me get used to the shock. It's my experience that with any new shock, there are anticipations regarding what it should feel like, and you still have the hangover regarding what your previous shock felt like.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    tiSS'er for what's it's worth; the last two chubbies I owned [ about 3-4 years ago] had about a 6 hour break in time to them. Other chubbie owners noticed the same thing. I had my inagural ride today, and I anticipate the same. As much as I want to do a whole lot of tuning changes, I am going to hold off, let the shock break in, and let me get used to the shock. It's my experience that with any new shock, there are anticipations regarding what it should feel like, and you still have the hangover regarding what your previous shock felt like.
    Agreed. I still have at least a month before I get this where I want it. I know this shock is going to be killer, I can feel it.
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    Damn...what have i just done!

    tiSS'er opened a can of worms -

    the 'hold out' has ended. This is going to be interesting.
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  48. #48
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    fork or shock?

    or both?
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  49. #49
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    I have been reading on the forum for some time now about all the options for rear suspension specifically. It has been interesting to hear how approachable and helpful Craig has been, so this morning i called him for a chat. He is totally mellow, helpful and willing to answer questions (many of them dumb no doubt), that i felt totally confident. At no time did he encourage or persuade me to buy one of his shocks, but actually said the performance from the DHX (coil) avy's is pretty good.

    In the end I felt like it was an investment that would hold its value and pulled the trigger on a Woodie. Craig mentioned cartridges for the Fox 36's are in the pipe line..but for now i will stick with the float which has done me good...although, i am prepared to soon be underwhelmed.

    I have to admit that it has been fairly obvious to me as the summer advanced and the trails dryed out and became faster that the RP23 wasnt cutting it. I had been running a 2.35 Minion (with a tube) all winter (since getting the Chilly in October) and after shimming the RP23, i had no real issues and the bike felt great. However, now the trails are really fast and the last couple rides I have ended with multiple pinch flats (@42+ psi) and the broken axle. These are fairly brutal trails (rocky / steep / old school ) that will eat equipment for breakfast. I am running a DH rim & tire...which really sucks to climb 4500 feet on an average weekday ride. I guess i will lose about a pound of rubber and gain the same in steel.

    While it might be unfair to blame 100% of my issues on the shock, i have to consider that the RP23 was never intended to be ridden how i have been riding it.

    I am looking fwd to the experience.
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  50. #50
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    only issue i have with the true avalanche shocks over the modded ones are it's hard to find a ti spring with the correct inner diameter for their shocks. much easier to find the 1.43" diameter ti springs to fit the fox. good to hear they perform almost as well as vay's own

  51. #51
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    Interesting titbit per Craig, @my weight and running a 450lb spring there is little difference between steel / Ti. Less then 400lb apparently Steel is actually lighter.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiSS'er View Post
    Another ride in the books, and a good one at that.

    The climb up Kiwanis is a good tech climb with many, many steps. The Woodie climbed better than expected. The LSC really works well, and the bike has a less mushy feel than the CCDB. The square hits were smoothed nicely and traction was excellent.

    The descent down Holbert has become a speed challenge for me with the Chili. The bike can easily handle the rocky, ledgy, granite filled trails. For me it is about hitting my line consistently, and each time just a bit faster. The Woodie did a nice job today, but it is till not where I want it. The shock still has a slight harshness to it. This is most likely due to the low HSC setting. I did add 1/8th of a turn after the ride, as well as I removed 1 more click of LSC to make the shock just a bit more active. The change in the performance from yesterday to today was amazing with just one less click of LSC and 1/4 turn more HSC.

    The fork and shock have a very similar feel, which is something I was looking for. With the recent rains, the trails are really tore up, so a completely fair comparison on today's ride was a bit impossible. After only 2 rides, I still have a lot of tuning to do. At this point, I would still give the overall nod to the CCDB, but i expect that will change with time, I can feel the potential of the Woodie.

    More to come.
    I might try a bit less high speed compression and faster rebound to remove some of the harshness you are experiencing.

  53. #53
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    MC, congrats on the purchase. I don't think you will be disappointed. What size frame do you have?

    Craig is amazing. My last conversation with him was very educational, and he really is a guy you can get behind and feel good about giving your hard earned money to.

    I have never been a big fan of Ti springs on shorter shocks. The weight savings is minimal.

    I will be spending some time tomorrow dialing in my shock. I have a nice segment of trail with 20+ continual steps in which I can work on the climb and descent. Hoping to get the shock within a few clicks of perfection

    I'll report back tomorrow with my results.
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  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by crseekins View Post
    I might try a bit less high speed compression and faster rebound to remove some of the harshness you are experiencing.

    Thanks Craig. I am going to spend some time tomorrow dialing things in and will drop you an email with my results. One question though, in the past I think you mentioned I should be running a minimum of 1 turn of HSC as it has an effect on the LSC activation. Is that correct.
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    Thanks dude, appreciate your feedback and info. Mine is medium - same as you I believe?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muttonchops View Post
    Thanks dude, appreciate your feedback and info. Mine is medium - same as you I believe?
    Sure is. Fit will be tight, but you should be fine. Looking forward to your thoughts.
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  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiSS'er View Post
    Craig is amazing. My last conversation with him was very educational, and he really is a guy you can get behind and feel good about giving your hard earned money to.
    I agree. He taught me so much in a 45 min conversation that I've had to spend the rest of the day getting as much as possible solidified in my jello-filled noggin.
    "sounds like you need to find a better mechanic..." -- Calhoun

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiSS'er View Post
    Thanks Craig. I am going to spend some time tomorrow dialing things in and will drop you an email with my results. One question though, in the past I think you mentioned I should be running a minimum of 1 turn of HSC as it has an effect on the LSC activation. Is that correct.
    Years ago Craig told me AT LEAST 3/4 of a turn of hsc, for the reason you state above.. I believe he sent my recent chubbie with one full turn.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiSS'er View Post

    Craig is amazing. My last conversation with him was very educational, and he really is a guy you can get behind and feel good about giving your hard earned money to.

    I have never been a big fan of Ti springs on shorter shocks. The weight savings is minimal.
    I can only echo this about Craig. When I spoke to him he really discussed everything in detail and was happy to do, wasn't in a hurry to get off the phone or anything. I told Mutton early when I got off the phone with him, I knew that no amount of me turning the adjusters on my CCDB would ever feel as good as one of his tunes.

    Just for comparison, my steel Fox 500 lb spring is 372 grams, my 500 lb DSP ti spring is 284g. I only bought the DSP b/c it was crazy cheap. No way I'd pay $200 or anything close for it, b/c like Tisser said, the weight savings is minimal on a short stroke shock.
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    [QUOTE=rscecil007;9640857]I can only echo this about Craig. When I spoke to him he really discussed everything in detail and was happy to do, wasn't in a hurry to get off the phone or anything. QUOTE]

    Yea, it makes me wonder how many hours he actually has to work building product, when he spends so much time educating his customers, me included. Hats off to the man!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    Yea, it makes me wonder how many hours he actually has to work building product, when he spends so much time educating his customers, me included. Hats off to the man!
    It's sort of like Ernie and the elves; Craig supplies the magic and makes sure that people get exactly what they need, while his employees do the actual assembly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tiSS'er View Post
    Thanks Craig. I am going to spend some time tomorrow dialing things in and will drop you an email with my results. One question though, in the past I think you mentioned I should be running a minimum of 1 turn of HSC as it has an effect on the LSC activation. Is that correct.
    Yes, this is true but it can work as mid speed adjuster in the first 1 turn allowing a smoother transition from low to high speed compression while ramping through the middle of higher rising rate linkages. We are providing this same adjustable feature on the DHX RC4 modification to the High Speed adjuster, the first 3 clicks allow for a similar feel on the valve. This will help ease the transition through the hump in the rising rate for the DW/VP pedal assist linkages, thus the name Transition Adjuster (TA) on the RC4.Fox DHX RC4/RC2 Speed Sensitive Damper Adjuster Kit

  63. #63
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    A little suspension setup session tonight. Getting real close to perfection A few questions for Craig via email, maybe a shuttle session Saturday...then perfection. The Woodie feels amazing now, and feels almost identical to my fork

    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/tisser/7898235574/" title="IMG_3802 by tiSS'er, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8455/7898235574_51fa2cbee0_b.jpg" width="768" height="1024" alt="IMG_3802"></a>

    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/tisser/7898236432/" title="IMG_3801 by tiSS'er, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8029/7898236432_89cdd17cb6_b.jpg" width="1024" height="768" alt="IMG_3801"></a>

    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/tisser/7898237942/" title="IMG_3799 by tiSS'er, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8454/7898237942_53f1a6f86e_b.jpg" width="768" height="1024" alt="IMG_3799"></a>

    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/tisser/7898238686/" title="IMG_3798 by tiSS'er, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8170/7898238686_48039c8cc3_b.jpg" width="768" height="1024" alt="IMG_3798"></a>
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  64. #64
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    Holy phock dude...are you sure thats a bike trail? Are you even allowed on that thing? #respect #crazyasnuts Yeeow...if that is your suspension testing ground...i will leave it all to you. Please send final settings.
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  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muttonchops View Post
    Holy phock dude...are you sure thats a bike trail? Are you even allowed on that thing? #respect #crazyasnuts Yeeow...if that is your suspension testing ground...i will leave it all to you. Please send final settings.
    Yep, this is a standard trail at SOMO. It is a great technical climb, and the photos only show very small segments. The entire trail is just like the photos. It is not steep, but it is consistent, and requires lots of effort. The DHs are the same. Some are faster than others. Just depends how "solid" the trail is . Holbert for example is lots of granite, so you can haul ass, but there are square edge hits and tombstones everywhere, you can get hurt real bad, real quick here. When you go down, you either land on granite, cactus, or both. The better DHs have some exposure, so you usually fall a ways as well...just ask Dr. Thunder

    Come visit sometime, I'll show you around. I suspect my settings will be slightly different from yours. I am curious to hear what your default settings are.
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  66. #66
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    Thats a perfect trail to me , my kind of style

  67. #67
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    Geez,
    that explains it why you need that really highend suspension
    When trails gets tougher, Just stand up and deliver.

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiSS'er View Post
    Yep, this is a standard trail at SOMO.
    Down... doable!
    Up... that's why I built a light bike... so I could pack it.

    You've got mad skillz my man! I would hit my cranks on the first rock and high-side.
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  69. #69
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    Probably some trials skills and some excellent fitness level too
    When trails gets tougher, Just stand up and deliver.

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    Holy Frack. My legs and body hurt just looking at that climb. I mean wow.
    If jackasses could fly this place would be an airport.

  71. #71
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    That's what I'm talking about!
    Love the rocks.

  72. #72
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    After spending the day Thursday dialing in the shock, and 3 rides over the holiday weekend, the debate is over!. The WOODIE ROCKS!

    The slight harshness I was feeling is now gone, the shock is stupid plush on everything, it is exceptionally well balanced with my fork, and it solves the few high speed issues I had with the CCDB.

    Thursday, I learned a great deal about both the LSC and HSC of this shock. The LSC is simply amazing. As I was climbing the ledges, I would remove 1 click of LSC at a time. As I was doing this, not only was the ride getting stupid plush, but I noticed I was hitting my pedals a bit more than usual, and the front end began to wander a bit. At this point I was able to determine the absolute minimum LSC I could run. So I began to add back the LSC one click at time until I found that perfect level of plush and controlled. The lesson? The LSC on this shock works the way LSC should. By adding LSC, I was able to change the BB height of the bike, which steepend the head angle and removed the wander. The bike would actually ride higher in its travel...amazing. On the other shocks on the past, it seemed like the LSC would only make the ride more or less mushy.

    The HSC issue was easily solved with a few emails to Craig. I set the HSC back to Craig's stock setting, which is 2.25 turns out from full hard. Craig typically recommends a minimum of 1 full turn of HSC from fully open as it has an effect on the engagement of the LSC. Craig explained to me that removing a bit of HSC would actually create a bit more of a mid/high speed transition. So, I removed .25 turns of HSC and quickly found heaven. This is exactly the feel I was looking for from the HSC. The HSC transitions beautifully, with no harshness to be found anywhere, yet it doesn't bottom and is completely controlled.

    So this weekend I did 3 unique rides, National, Geronimo, and Holbert (which is my baseline). National is a bit more pedally down, has a few 2-3 foot drops, and in general is more sandy than either Holbert or Geronimo. Near the top of National, we have what we call the Lunch Shelf. This is about a 3 foot drop where you carry some good speed, and the landing is on some fairly jagged granite. This drop told me all I needed. Most people roll this as it is a rather harsh landing, hard on the body and bike. The Woodie, just soaked it up, smoother than I have ever felt. About mid way down there is another small rock garden sections call Cactus Root. This is a section which rolls in on some oddly shaped granite, to a right hander in which you jump the Post. After the Post, you hit a rock garden on your way to the Cactus Root drop. It is a small drop, but the entry is important as you need to hit the brakes and get the bike sideways. The rock gardens literally disappeared and I had to be on the brakes more than usual...a good thing.

    Geronimo is a bit of everything. Small jumps, super chunk, and lots of of solid, oddly shaped granite to give any shock a workout. I don't ride Geronimo enough to provide any real comparison, but i can tell you smooth was the word of the day.

    Today, I hit Holbert, which is my favorite and benchmark trail for testing. The shock was simply amazing here. I know exactly what the bike feels like with the CCDB as I probably have ridden it 30 times or more with the CCDB. Today the WOODIE just blew the CCDB out of the water. The bike was super composed, I never felt any harshness anywhere, and it just sucked up the high speed chatter.

    Thanks to Craig for all the help with the tuning, my constant emails, and getting me dialed. No doubt the CCDB is a great shock, but once again I am convinced that a custom tuned shock beats out a one sized fits all shock. To be fair though, my time on the CCDB provided me the information I needed to allow Craig to dial out the issues I was having.
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  73. #73
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    Thanks tiSS'er , now i know what shock i will be using down the road ... Do you have any video footage of the trails that you mention you ride ? Or some links to Youtube to check out the terrain and condition of the trails

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiSS'er View Post
    After spending the day Thursday dialing in the shock, and 3 rides over the holiday weekend, the debate is over!. The WOODIE ROCKS!

    The slight harshness I was feeling is now gone, the shock is stupid plush on everything, it is exceptionally well balanced with my fork, and it solves the few high speed issues I had with the CCDB.

    ..
    Probably you`ve already mentioned those HS- issues with CCDB somewhere, but would you pls tell bit more what you mean? Did you feel HSC too much compressed and HSR not fast enough?

  75. #75
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    Thanks for the update,
    You set the suspension benchmark to next level
    When trails gets tougher, Just stand up and deliver.

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by pergamonx View Post
    Probably you`ve already mentioned those HS- issues with CCDB somewhere, but would you pls tell bit more what you mean? Did you feel HSC too much compressed and HSR not fast enough?
    don't know if it was tisser's issue, but people have had problems with the high speed compression getting overwhelmed on ccdbs before. almost hydrolock. it is a decent shock, but i don't think it compares to any true custom tuned shock.

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by qbert2000 View Post
    don't know if it was tisser's issue, but people have had problems with the high speed compression getting overwhelmed on ccdbs before. almost hydrolock. it is a decent shock, but i don't think it compares to any true custom tuned shock.
    Okay. That`s was my feeling too with CCDB coil when tried it in Chilly. Mine was once tuned already (for frame with totally different suspension curve, tune was made by mr Garland / Stendec) and I supposed that this tuning was the reason. Have never tried stock CCDB coil in Chili. Have not had those issues with DB Air.

    My solution was new tune for DB coil. Local suspension expert spent few hours with internals and voila` - it´s just perfect now. Have to ask what he actually did, but at least he changed oil for one with less viscocity, changed negative pressure and built both shim-stacks lighter.

    It would be nice to test Woodie or Chubie - but I think five shocks for one frame is already too many
    Last edited by pergamonx; 09-04-2012 at 10:16 AM.

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by pergamonx View Post
    Probably you`ve already mentioned those HS- issues with CCDB somewhere, but would you pls tell bit more what you mean? Did you feel HSC too much compressed and HSR not fast enough?
    I really like the CCDB about 90% of the time. However, there are some high speed hits where I felt the shock couldn't keep up. After speaking to Craig, it was clear that the shock was unable to flow enough oil in those cases. Craig built me a shock and that is no longer an issue.
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  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiSS'er View Post
    The LSC is simply amazing. As I was climbing the ledges, I would remove 1 click of LSC at a time. As I was doing this, not only was the ride getting stupid plush, but I noticed I was hitting my pedals a bit more than usual, and the front end began to wander a bit. At this point I was able to determine the absolute minimum LSC I could run. So I began to add back the LSC one click at time until I found that perfect level of plush and controlled. The lesson? The LSC on this shock works the way LSC should. By adding LSC, I was able to change the BB height of the bike, which steepend the head angle and removed the wander. The bike would actually ride higher in its travel...amazing. On the other shocks on the past, it seemed like the LSC would only make the ride more or less mushy.
    I had this exact same thing happen to me with my DHX Avy. I mean exact; crazy plush, but smacked my pedals more than I liked when it came back from Craig.

    After 4 or 5 weeks of riding to get to know the shock, I added two clicks of LSC, and no more pedal smacking, the bike stayed higher in it's travel, etc. Talking to Craig last week, he told me I should just close the LSC all the way to see what it feels like, he said it almost locks the shock out.

    This was an issue I couldn't solve with my DB's. In order for them to sit higher in the travel and not smack the pedals, I lost alot of that plush feeling they are known for. The DHX Avy remedied this for me.
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  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiSS'er View Post
    This is about a 3 foot drop where you carry some good speed, and the landing is on some fairly jagged granite. This drop told me all I needed. Most people roll this as it is a rather harsh landing, hard on the body and bike. The Woodie, just soaked it up, smoother than I have ever felt. .
    wow, awesome write up and I'm really glad you are lovin the Woodie

    your comment up there ^^^^^^^^^^ is EXACTLY why I said you were going to love the Avy..

    I can still remember the first drop I ever hit after I installed my first Avalanche shock on my bike.I was totally blown away with how plush, yet bottomless ,the shock felt..
    Back then I was running a DHX5 on a Stinky and the woodie was sooooo much better i really couldn't believe it...I'm still amazing with how quiet my bike lands off of drops..It really is like landing on a pillow
    I was actually kind of mad at myself for not buying the Avy years sooner

    true yet unfair story...my next frame purchase was my V-tach which came with a CCDB..
    After running the Avy on my Stinky I didn't even consider keeping it,or even giving it a fair shot...I knew I wanted my Avalanche on there so off came the CCDB with no real riding on it....no regrets either..

  81. #81
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    How much, and when are you gonna sell CCDB Coil? Let us know when you post an ad!

  82. #82
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    tiSSer, based on your last post, I re-examined my current chubbie/5 spot settings, and Craig's recommended settings, and found that he too set my hsc the same as yours. I adjusted all my settings back to his [ within 2/3 clicks of lsc and rebound difference between the two settings] and rode tonight. One quarter way through the ride, I added one click in of rebound, and stayed there the rest of the way.
    It was pretty damn good; amazing what the minimal hsc did for the ride. That was not the recommmended way a couple years ago, but, so what! The rear wheel disappeared on the high speed descents. Wow!
    Next adjustment [already implemented] is a little more spring preload.
    Climbing traction is way good.
    Can't wait [but will have to] to get an Avy for the El Guapo. Then that bike will be Avy front and rear.
    Thank you for your posts. They have been quite helpfull.

    Edt: Craig, I saw that you were reading this thread; my 500 pound spring rate was way too low for the 5.5 rockers, in all respects. I switched over to the 5 inch rockers after one ride, and it feels quite right. I do want to talk to you about a couple things,so I'll call you.
    ****

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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    tiSSer, based on your last post, I re-examined my current chubbie/5 spot settings, and Craig's recommended settings, and found that he too set my hsc the same as yours. I adjusted all my settings back to his [ within 2/3 clicks of lsc and rebound difference between the two settings] and rode tonight. One quarter way through the ride, I added one click in of rebound, and stayed there the rest of the way.
    It was pretty damn good; amazing what the minimal hsc did for the ride. That was not the recommmended way a couple years ago, but, so what! The rear wheel disappeared on the high speed descents. Wow!
    Next adjustment [already implemented] is a little more spring preload.
    Climbing traction is way good.
    Can't wait [but will have to] to get an Avy for the El Guapo. Then that bike will be Avy front and rear.
    Thank you for your posts. They have been quite helpfull.

    Edt: Craig, I saw that you were reading this thread; my 500 pound spring rate was way too low for the 5.5 rockers, in all respects. I switched over to the 5 inch rockers after one ride, and it feels quite right. I do want to talk to you about a couple things,so I'll call you.
    There is some magic going on in there. Here are the setting Craig recommended:
    (from fully closed)
    LSC 11-12 clicks
    HSC - 2.25 turns
    R - 9 clicks

    Here is where I ended up (for now)
    LSC 10 clicks
    HSC - 2.5 turns
    R - 5 clicks
    1.5 turns of preload, 500lb spring

    My Lyrik settings are (from fully closed)
    LSC - 12 clicks
    R - 9 clicks
    oil height - 55mm from the top, fully compressed
    Honda HP 5 weight

    The bike is so well balanced it is unbelievable. I just changed the stock seals out last night (2 years old) to the new Enduros, and they feel very good without any break in. I would say they feel as good as without break in as the stocks did with 2 years on them. Not sure if they will get better or not, but I'm sold.

    I should note that I change my oil every 2-3 months in my fork. The oil came out nice and clean, just a bit dirty from the seals going bad over the past few rides.
    Employed by Pivot Cycles - www.pivotcycles.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by qbert2000 View Post
    don't know if it was tisser's issue, but people have had problems with the high speed compression getting overwhelmed on ccdbs before. almost hydrolock. it is a decent shock, but i don't think it compares to any true custom tuned shock.
    Lots of faster people disagree
    Nice KOM, sorry about your penis.

  85. #85
    Y no grease?ლ(ಠ益ಠლ
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    tiSS'er how much do u weigh?
    Climbing ain't easy
    when you're fat and greasy
    - 2 Bigsteve

  86. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by greasemeat View Post
    tiSS'er how much do u weigh?
    About 195lbs geared up.
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  87. #87
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    exactly why i hate these friggin forums......not only did i just spend 30minutes reading this thread, but now i have suspension envy which will be leading to some upgrades and a fairwell to a few greenbacks.

    tiSS'er .... well done on the Chili !

  88. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by nwmtb View Post
    exactly why i hate these friggin forums......not only did i just spend 30minutes reading this thread, but now i have suspension envy which will be leading to some upgrades and a fairwell to a few greenbacks.

    tiSS'er .... well done on the Chili !
    Sorry
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    yeah, i'd have to agree! very informative tiss'er. you are actually my weight ... might be very helpfull one day if i do get an avy shock (not sure if craig sends his stuff to europe). i ordered my chili with a bos vip'r but the shop had to return the shock to bos because the compr. lever would not move. worried that bos is rather slow on return times so for now i'll install my 2nd hand ccdb coil, just need to get the proper hard ware ...

    @loamranger: any news on your comparison between the bos stoy vs. ccdb air?

  90. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zuzi View Post
    yeah, i'd have to agree! very informative tiss'er. you are actually my weight ... might be very helpfull one day if i do get an avy shock (not sure if craig sends his stuff to europe). i ordered my chili with a bos vip'r but the shop had to return the shock to bos because the compr. lever would not move. worried that bos is rather slow on return times so for now i'll install my 2nd hand ccdb coil, just need to get the proper hard ware ...

    @loamranger: any news on your comparison between the bos stoy vs. ccdb air?
    Craig will ship to Europe
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zuzi View Post

    @loamranger: any news on your comparison between the bos stoy vs. ccdb air?
    Hi Zuzi, I need to machine up some new bushings for the Stoy and according to the BOS chart I will need a heavier spring for the Chilcotin (450 as opposed to 400 for my weight). Also, the tune is for the old Endo (which is different for the Chili) but I am going to try it as it is for the moment ( I will probably need to try different compression/rebound settings compared to the ones for the Endo) and I will let you know my thoughts.

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    thanks loamranger, looking forward to your thoughts!

    @tiss'er: you ran the ccdb with a 450 lbs spring. knolly homepage states 400 lbs for our weight range. did you feel it required the heavier spring? what sag were you running?

    @all: what's the actual shock mounting hardware specs? knolly homepage states 21.80 and 41.20 but if i measure my frame i am closer to 22.10 and 41.05 mm. and again RWC specs their shock eye bearing kits for the chili at 22.20 and 41.15 mm (as posted by yangpei). since i'll have the hardware custom made - should i just go with what i measured?

    cheers

  93. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zuzi View Post
    thanks loamranger, looking forward to your thoughts!

    @tiss'er: you ran the ccdb with a 450 lbs spring. knolly homepage states 400 lbs for our weight range. did you feel it required the heavier spring? what sag were you running?

    @all: what's the actual shock mounting hardware specs? knolly homepage states 21.80 and 41.20 but if i measure my frame i am closer to 22.10 and 41.05 mm. and again RWC specs their shock eye bearing kits for the chili at 22.20 and 41.15 mm (as posted by yangpei). since i'll have the hardware custom made - should i just go with what i measured?

    cheers
    I started with a 400lb spring, but I had way too much sag. The 450 was much better. The Woodie has a 500LB spring which may be just a touch too stiff, but overall I like it.
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  94. #94
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    Gaarrrr..have meetings all day.

    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/davemutton/7979956866/" title="Untitled by davemutton, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8454/7979956866_1cd0415cf0.jpg" width="375" height="500" alt="Untitled"></a>
    I support EMBA

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    Why does Push get so little love these days?

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    Quote Originally Posted by dulyebr View Post
    Why does Push get so little love these days?
    PUSH work on existing platforms (and also have to deal with certain limitations such as reservoir size, body size, oil volume, etc), which Craig also does. Craig is a smaller shop with a bit more of a personal touch, which some people like. PUSH doesn't offer anything like Craig's custom shocks.
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  97. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muttonchops View Post
    Gaarrrr..have meetings all day.

    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/davemutton/7979956866/" title="Untitled by davemutton, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8454/7979956866_1cd0415cf0.jpg" width="375" height="500" alt="Untitled"></a>
    OH HELL YEAH!. Leave work NOW......
    Employed by Pivot Cycles - www.pivotcycles.com

  98. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by dulyebr View Post
    Why does Push get so little love these days?
    Maybe because they quit sourcing their upgrade from Avy (remember that MX tune DHX? yeah...)

  99. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by CharacterZero View Post
    Maybe because they quit sourcing their upgrade from Avy (remember that MX tune DHX? yeah...)
    I remember it every time I ride. It's such an awesome upgrade over the oem DHX! Wonder why they stopped offering it.

  100. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by dulyebr View Post
    Why does Push get so little love these days?
    PUSH seems to do a lot of talking. They must have a project list a mile long.

    Craig (Avy) gets it done.

    Even the upgrades Avy does to the Fox rear shocks are awesome. Craig has a reservoir extension kit that he can add to the shock. He said it wasn't necessary on my DHX for my Chili, but it is a nice option.

    Just installed the Lyrik kit last night. Took my first ride this morning. Feels smooth and controlled. I will open up the LSC on my next ride a few clicks.

    Very stoke on my Avy modded Chili.

    TG

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