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  1. #1
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    Which wheels for a lightweight Endo?

    When building a lightweight Endo an obvious choice of wheels would be the Enve AMs:

    Mountain Bike Carbon Wheels / Carbon Fiber Wheelset 26 AM

    Any ideas on custom builds that could achieve better strength/weight/$$$ ratio as these enves are bit too expensive...

  2. #2
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    I'd love a set of those, I've heard nothing but good things. Supposedly stiff as hell and the Santa Cruz Syndicate DH team (Minnar, Peat, etc) raced on just one set per rider all year, but for $2500 I will keep rocking my Kings and Flows...
    If jackasses could fly this place would be an airport.

  3. #3
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    Anything with Enve's is going to be pimp. Period. They are really nice rims, good warranty, and made in Ogden, Utah.

    Other options to consider are Specialized and Easton:
    --Specialized Roval Traverse SL: 22mm internal width, DT Swiss hubs and spokes, lifetime warranty.
    --Easton Haven Carbon: 21mm internal width, previous hub issues, not sure about reliability now, two year no questions asked warranty.

    Two friends in Austin just mounted their respective Easton Haven Carbon's and both Cat 1 DH/Enduro/XC shredders, anxious to see how they hold up. I'm considering the Roval set.

    For ultimate bang for your buck, the Light Bicycle carbon rims are wide and cheap...

  4. #4
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    i have owned a lot of high end wheels including easton haven carbons, dt swiss tricon, mavic crossmax sx and enve am. enves are simply on another level. i can also tell you that the xc wheel is the exact same as the am just a little narrower. just a thought. the eastons are tough as hell to though. they are listed as a trail wheel with 24 spokes i believe and i beat the hell out of those things and they never faultered. up to you but just talking from experience. the eastons you can generally find for fairly cheap considereing as well

  5. #5
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    Syntace W35.....less than half the price of Enve's, wider, aluminium, classy hubs, mix and match widths and diameters.

  6. #6
    Knomer
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    I9 Torch.
    Global Director of Sales: Knolly Bikes

  7. #7
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    Internet kids don't like them, (based on reviews by non-owners it seems) but I've had years of really good experience with American Classic hubs. The bearings on the first set of hubs didn't last, but the replacements have several yrs on them.
    Laced to a stans rim with CX ray's my 650b front weighs in at 645g without the disc.

    My endo has currently I9 front and Hope rear right now, but if I wanted to strip weight off, I'd trade bling for utililty and AMClassic hubs would be my go to.

  8. #8
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    Running the Enve XC rims on my Endorphin and very happy. They are fast and stiff. I got mine from Wheelbuilder.com and was well under $2500.

  9. #9
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    like most of you i was looking at enve, but again like most of you dont want to pay the price tag lol.
    i went for hope pro2 with mavic en521 these are pretty light, i was going to go for the xm 719 i had these on my dt originally but kept buckling them in the park. so thought the en521 would be a tad stronger and is a slight bit wider,
    i was looking at crankbrothers, crc have them on offer and they are pretty light.
    also looked at easton. in the end i went with hope mavic combo as my mate gets em cheap. and im trying to stick to a budget lol.

  10. #10
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    I'd second what Dusty said and go for the Industry Nines. I've ridden a few pairs of their wheels and they have been nothing short of awesome, and the new Torch rims and hubs are advertised at less that 1500g/set - and thats for the burlier 32H configuration. With the 24H front wheel they're around 1420g/set. That's carbon weight with alloy rims, (and at half the price) and the quality of the I9 stuff is second to none. Plus all those colours are bad ass.

  11. #11
    Five5hot
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dusty Bottoms View Post
    I9 Torch.
    Glad you said that because I'm eyeballing this set (Trail 24h). Light in weight, great color combinations, 3 degree engagement hubs, attractive price and made in the USA! Downside: 200lb weight limit might set some people off.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by rscecil007 View Post
    I'd love a set of those, I've heard nothing but good things. Supposedly stiff as hell and the Santa Cruz Syndicate DH team (Minnar, Peat, etc) raced on just one set per rider all year, but for $2500 I will keep rocking my Kings and Flows...
    Ive heard people say that Kings arent as fast as DT or I9, but last much longer, what do you reckon?

  13. #13
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    I've no idea, I've not ever ran I9's or DT's so I can't compare. Regardless, I wouldn't base your purchasing decision on which are "faster."

    EDIT: it dawned on me they were probably talking about King's being slower due to the supposed freehub drag they have, due to the seals. I've not ever found this to be an issue, I think people make more out of it than it is.

    All are good hubs though, so you can't really go wrong.
    If jackasses could fly this place would be an airport.

  14. #14
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    Did you check out Light Bicycles like Gillespie said? They have refined their process and it seems nil probs so far. Carbon rims for around $650. to your door with hubs that are axle adjustable (with the right spacers). Prob 200 grams heavier than Enve, but hey! Stiffness to cost ratio.....

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dusty Bottoms View Post
    I9 Torch.
    I have no doubts about these wheels but here they are £800.

    I could build these:

    405g DT Swiss 240 IS Disc (6 bolt) -- Front 20mm (165g) -- Rear 12mm x 142mm TA (240g) convertible into Sram MTB XD for XX1

    800g Stans Arch EX 26" Black 32h (400g each)

    309g Sapim D-Light black (x64)

    26g Sapim Aluminium 2.0mm x64

    Total Weight 1540g.
    Cost £600.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by B Gillespie View Post
    Anything with Enve's is going to be pimp. Period. They are really nice rims, good warranty, and made in Ogden, Utah.

    Other options to consider are Specialized and Easton:
    --Specialized Roval Traverse SL: 22mm internal width, DT Swiss hubs and spokes, lifetime warranty.
    --Easton Haven Carbon: 21mm internal width, previous hub issues, not sure about reliability now, two year no questions asked warranty.

    Two friends in Austin just mounted their respective Easton Haven Carbon's and both Cat 1 DH/Enduro/XC shredders, anxious to see how they hold up. I'm considering the Roval set.
    The advice i was given was:

    Easton haven carbon
    rims great
    hubs poor, issues with reliability and spares, will be using the warranty i.e not always on your bike.

    Spesh Roval Traverse SL
    straight pull spokes harder to get hold of and there is a cost associated

    As for Light Bicycle carbon rims, WOW!, they look too light/cheap to be true...

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by kark View Post
    Internet kids don't like them, (based on reviews by non-owners it seems) but I've had years of really good experience with American Classic hubs. The bearings on the first set of hubs didn't last, but the replacements have several yrs on them.
    Ive heard the AM Classic Disc 130 Front and AM Classic Disc 225 Rear hubs are cheaper (by 100 bucks) and lighter (by 40g for the pair) than DT Swiss 240s. These are interesting for those reasons but might require a wee bit more maintenance which isnt a problem for me.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parabellum View Post
    I'd second what Dusty said and go for the Industry Nines. I've ridden a few pairs of their wheels and they have been nothing short of awesome, and the new Torch rims and hubs are advertised at less that 1500g/set - and thats for the burlier 32H configuration. With the 24H front wheel they're around 1420g/set. That's carbon weight with alloy rims, (and at half the price) and the quality of the I9 stuff is second to none. Plus all those colours are bad ass.
    They are are the forefront for sure, along with the build i specified above (mix of Stans/DT Swiss 240s/Sapim).

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by rscecil007 View Post
    EDIT: it dawned on me they were probably talking about King's being slower due to the supposed freehub drag they have, due to the seals. I've not ever found this to be an issue, I think people make more out of it than it is.
    the drag is what i meant. they probably do make more out of it, but the one place that i find my knolly slow on is pretty flat / lightly rolling / technical sections, it loses speed quickly and that could be helped by faster engaging hubs.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by cfrench View Post
    Ive heard the AM Classic Disc 130 Front and AM Classic Disc 225 Rear hubs are cheaper (by 100 bucks) and lighter (by 40g for the pair) than DT Swiss 240s. These are interesting for those reasons but might require a wee bit more maintenance which isnt a problem for me.
    The DT hubs are light, reliable, adaptable and easy to service. I'm not sure the ACs even deserve to be in the same conversation.
    Only two infinite things exist: the universe and stupidity. And, I am unsure of the universe
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  21. #21
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    If not Enve, then these:

    Syntace

  22. #22
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    chris,,,,
    just a thought, not even sure how good they are, but i read in last months mag about the new superstar xc carbon rims being pretty good and reasonable money.
    Superstar Components - High Spec Parts For Peanuts

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by loamranger View Post
    If not Enve, then these:

    Syntace
    Those syntace wheels look really intriguing.. wide rims, light, awesome spokes. the price is ~800 (600 euro before shipping etc).

    Could be top shelf wheels for mid shelf price.
    Glad to know about these. Thx for the heads up.

  24. #24
    Just roll it......
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    Do you or anyone else know anyone running them?

    wider mtb 26er carbon bike rim 26 inch rims(tubeless-compatible) Light-Bicycle

    Quote Originally Posted by ISharted View Post
    Did you check out Light Bicycles like Gillespie said? They have refined their process and it seems nil probs so far. Carbon rims for around $650. to your door with hubs that are axle adjustable (with the right spacers). Prob 200 grams heavier than Enve, but hey! Stiffness to cost ratio.....

  25. #25
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    Not sure on the 26inch but in the 650b thread have a look under Carbon rims, lots of info with peeps posting up their new sets regularly.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by loamranger View Post
    If not Enve, then these:

    Syntace
    those look very nice. their hub engagement system seems quite similar to king's ring drive which is a good thing imho. all points mesh at once instead of just anywhere from 2 to 6 pawls like most hubs

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by qbert2000 View Post
    those look very nice. their hub engagement system seems quite similar to king's ring drive which is a good thing imho. all points mesh at once instead of just anywhere from 2 to 6 pawls like most hubs
    It's actually almost exactly the same as the dt/swiss star ratchet system - it just uses 4 smaller springs spaced around the ratchet rather than 1 large one

  28. #28
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    Which wheels for a lightweight Endo?

    Quote Originally Posted by ebxtreme View Post
    My experience with these rims has been quite poor as a rear wheel. I have cracked two of them at the rim hook under pretty standard trail riding conditions that would have been completely uneventful on a Flow rim. They warranties the rims both times but I had to pay for shipping and rebuild the wheels. You can find more details on my experience here in this thread:

    26in chinese carbon all mountain rim.

    I still have the front rim and it's running strong, but as a rear rim I have gone back to Flow and have not had any further problems.

    If I remember correctly also Krispy from GoRide and 1soulrider cracked theirs.
    Last edited by nybike1971; 05-16-2013 at 07:47 AM.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by nybike1971 View Post
    My experience with these rims has been quite poor as a rear wheel. I have cracked two of them at the rim hook under pretty standard trail riding conditions that would have been completely uneventful on a Flow rim. They warranties the rims both times but I had to pay for shipping and rebuild the wheels. You can find more details on my experience here in this thread:

    26in chinese carbon all mountain rim.

    I still have the front rim and it's running strong, but as a rear rim I have gone back to Flow and have not had any further problems.

    If I remember correctly also Krispy from GoRide and 1soulrider also cracked theirs.
    Ive just watched the video of where you think you cracked the rim. I am appalled that you had to foot the bill for postage and wheel rebuilding. You should not need a Flow for those trails either an Arch EX would suffice.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by loamranger View Post
    If not Enve, then these:

    Syntace
    Thanks. They look good, but ive never had dealings with Syntace before so wouldnt know what i was buying into, thats the only problem. Anybody run these wheels before?

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by delirian View Post
    chris,,,,
    just a thought, not even sure how good they are, but i read in last months mag about the new superstar xc carbon rims being pretty good and reasonable money.
    Superstar Components - High Spec Parts For Peanuts
    Cheers for the heads up, gave them a ring, they've got an AM version coming in June but havent established a price yet. Seems like they try to look after you, with the crash replacement policy, free lifetime truing on all wheels, paid postage when theres a manufacturing fault and their 2 year warranty on everything.

    They said the rim will be as tough as an ali rim, but when i asked which one, they didnt have an answer. Im guessing since theyre due out so soon someone will post a review of them before long.

  32. #32
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    Wow! Never heard of them, awesome info.

  33. #33
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    Just took a look at some Syntace wheels at a LBS. If you like understated finely made components, then take a look at these. Really nice matt black anodised finish with very small syntace labels. Super fast engaging rear hubs in plain black. 35mm wide outside 29mm inside. Can be made tubeless with some Stans yellow tape. Sapim X-Ray spokes. Would look the ticket with a black Chilcotin. Going to wait for the 650b's which should be arriving very soon.

    Also took a look at the Syntace pedals, beautifully machined and finished, super light at 280g pair, very large platform in large size (they come in 3 sizes), but very expensive.

  34. #34
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    Lightweight Endo Wheels: I9 or Customs..

    Thanks for all the suggestions, ive whittled the choice down to 2 sets of wheels, i havent decided which pair, but ive concluded, that either way, id get a great set of wheels.


    I9 Trail 32 Spoke Wheelset
    1490 grams/set
    £800

    Rims: 28mm outer/23.4mm inner width, Tubeless ready profile, Rim weight - 385 grams
    Front Hub: 2 bearings with external o-ring seals, 110x20mm axle options - *Hub weight varies depending on axle/bearing spec
    Rear Hub: 4 bearings with external Teflon seals and silicone freehub seal. 12x142 axle.
    Driver: 9/10 spd or XD1 - 120 point, 3 degree engagement, 6 pawl mechanism
    Spokes: 2.9/2.7mm butted


    OR


    Custom Build
    1540 grams/set
    £600

    Rims: Stans Arch EX 26" Black 32h (400g)
    Hubs: DT Swiss 240 IS Disc (6 bolt) -- Front 20mm (165g) -- Rear 12mm x 142mm TA (240g) convertible into Sram MTB XD for XX1
    Spokes: Sapim D-Light black (x64)
    Nipples: Sapim Aluminium


    The I9's have lighter hubs than DTSwiss and are fast / stiff wheels. They are slighty better than the custom build for this reason when comparing the characteristics... tough/light/stiff/quick. In short, the I9s are worth the extra ££'s but the DTSwiss/Stans would suffice.

    The Syntace W35 wheelset and Superstar Carbon AM rims were nice finds but im going to wait out on them to see how reports on durability fair before taking a leap.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by cfrench View Post
    Thanks. They look good, but ive never had dealings with Syntace before so wouldnt know what i was buying into, thats the only problem. Anybody run these wheels before?

    syntace make great components and are a quality well regarded german firm. they make nice seatposts and bars they also own liteville bikes as well. just hard to source in north america. i wish that wasnt the case

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by cfrench View Post
    Thanks for all the suggestions, ive whittled the choice down to 2 sets of wheels, i havent decided which pair, but ive concluded, that either way, id get a great set of wheels.


    I9 Trail 32 Spoke Wheelset
    1490 grams/set
    £800

    Rims: 28mm outer/23.4mm inner width, Tubeless ready profile, Rim weight - 385 grams
    Front Hub: 2 bearings with external o-ring seals, 110x20mm axle options - *Hub weight varies depending on axle/bearing spec
    Rear Hub: 4 bearings with external Teflon seals and silicone freehub seal. 12x142 axle.
    Driver: 9/10 spd or XD1 - 120 point, 3 degree engagement, 6 pawl mechanism
    Spokes: 2.9/2.7mm butted


    OR


    Custom Build
    1540 grams/set
    £600

    Rims: Stans Arch EX 26" Black 32h (400g)
    Hubs: DT Swiss 240 IS Disc (6 bolt) -- Front 20mm (165g) -- Rear 12mm x 142mm TA (240g) convertible into Sram MTB XD for XX1
    Spokes: Sapim D-Light black (x64)
    Nipples: Sapim Aluminium


    The I9's have lighter hubs than DTSwiss and are fast / stiff wheels. They are slighty better than the custom build for this reason when comparing the characteristics... tough/light/stiff/quick. In short, the I9s are worth the extra ££'s but the DTSwiss/Stans would suffice.

    The Syntace W35 wheelset and Superstar Carbon AM rims were nice finds but im going to wait out on them to see how reports on durability fair before taking a leap.
    just a quick question chris. can you get i9's over here, to my limeted knowledge you cant, i looked a few years back when i built up the dt, but was unable to find any dealers/ importers. i could be very much mistaken, ( it does happen quite alot lol.) it was back in 09 when i last looked so things could well have changed in that time.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by delirian View Post
    just a quick question chris. can you get i9's over here, to my limeted knowledge you cant, i looked a few years back when i built up the dt, but was unable to find any dealers/ importers. i could be very much mistaken, ( it does happen quite alot lol.) it was back in 09 when i last looked so things could well have changed in that time.
    justridingalong

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by loamranger View Post
    justridingalong
    yeah thats them, they know their stuff and are very helpful. had an old dtswiss 440 freeride hub which was qr of all things and they sold me parts to convert it to 142x12 for a tiny amount of what thy other shops were asking. turns out i could use hope parts for the job and it saved me 80 bucks. i had been through lots of dt swiss/hope internet dealers and even the dt swiss service centre at dalby....all of them missed this trick, and most of them thought what i wanted to do couldnt be done, but justridingalong had me sorted out in ~ 40 second long phone call. they are my new go-to wheel builders.

    qbert, re: comment about syntace, interesting indeed, i havent ruled them out.

  39. #39
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    Industry Nine / i9 wheels - now in stock.

    definately check out syntace before deciding, they are around the same price.

    second what frenchy said about jra, very helpful and good wheel builders.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by loamranger View Post
    Industry Nine / i9 wheels - now in stock.

    definately check out syntace before deciding, they are around the same price.

    second what frenchy said about jra, very helpful and good wheel builders.
    frenchy i havent been called that for years

    The Syntace do look the business. Plenty tough enough and the 10 years of warranty in one form or another is testament to their confidence in what they've made.

    At 1610g for the set is not the lightest and they make all tyres widths 'wide' due to rim width. This is something i love to have on the Chili but its not quite what im looking for on the Endo.

    If i was going to ride churn (rock gardens, DH trails, jumps/drops) the Chili will be brought out for it. The Endo is going to be for smoother flowy fast AM, so i want to build it sub 25lbs (with CCDBA and BOS 140s) to get a very racy feel. To build a kinda hardcore Endo this light means tyres and wheels together have to weigh in at 2.9kg at the most.

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