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  1. #1
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    warden chainring size

    hi all

    so warden ariving next week, hopefully. what size chainring is the frame designed around thought i read it was 28/30 somewhere which seems a bit tiny.
    i'm going to start off with my old 32 on 165 cranks and 11-36 on the back until i can get the new xt 11-40 and if it doesnt compromise the suspension 34 on 165 or should i stick with 32 on the new cranks?
    i already asked on knollys contact support but no reply.

    thanks

  2. #2
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    Hi louf:

    The frame is pretty independent of chain ring size, and will happily run anything from a 22 Tooth granny ring up to a 38T single ring, and probably a slightly larger "big chainring" with a 2 x 10 setup.

    So, your 32T single ring will be just fine

    Cheers,
    Last edited by knollybikes.com; 07-17-2015 at 07:21 PM.
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  3. #3
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    I'm running a 28T and it works fine. I will be going up to a 30t though....

  4. #4
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    I'm running a 32T ring and find I don't use the 42T cog often when climbing. On the downhills I'm always in the 10T cog which isn't ideal. I'm getting some chain rub on the inside of the chainstay because I'm always using the smallest cog and its a tight fit. I don't decend really fast either, more a cruise but the chain bounces a bit even with a type 2 derailleur.When landing a small jump today the chain came of the cog for the first time and jammed damaging the frame a bit. So now I'm thinking I'll put a 34T chain ring on.

  5. #5
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    humm kinda thinking i should go with the 34 as this will be a tad faster than my 5 year old fuel ex

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by louf View Post
    humm kinda thinking i should go with the 34 as this will be a tad faster than my 5 year old fuel ex
    I reckon you should use what you have first and get a feel for what you will need. The Warden rips on the downs and while it climbs pretty well it will likely be heavier and slower than your old fuel. With a single ring you will need to compromise a bit of top end or bottom end. A 32T worked for me while getting used to the Warden. Now I've ordered 34T

  7. #7
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    It depends how long and steep the climbs are. 34 is hard going when its steep and 36 is usually what DH bikes come with (they don't pedal uphill at all). 30T/32T are most common.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by knollybikes.com View Post
    Hi louf:

    The frame is pretty independent of chain ring size, and will happily run anything from a 22 Tooth granny ring up to a 38T single ring, and probably a slightly larger "big chainring" with a 2 x 10 setup.

    So, your 32T single ring will be just fine

    Cheers,
    What about the Chilcotin? Is it better on prolonged climbs with 2x10?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by cfrench View Post
    What about the Chilcotin? Is it better on prolonged climbs with 2x10?
    Exactly the same situation as with the Warden.

    Cheers,
    Noel Buckley
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  10. #10
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    noel

    say for shits and giggles, you had a warden what size chainring would you run with an 11 speed cassette on it and why? don't worry about me until the beginning of this year i ran 165 cranks with a 26/38 and an 11-28 cassette so 34, 40 setup is pure luxury just need to carry enough bananas ... i'd like the 34 but am only concerned it might make the bike a bit bobby on the long climbs and i'm very fussy about most things really.

    ta

  11. #11
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    louf:

    There is no reason to run one size over another (i.e. 30T vs. 34T) other than tailoring the chainring to the type of riding that you do. The main concern with 1 x 11 (i.e. SRAM 10-42) cassettes is that you loose some "overall gear range" compared to most 2 x 10 systems: this is an even bigger concern with the new Shimano 1 x 11 systems because the cassette is 11-40 or 11-42 so the gearing spread is slightly less than SRAM's 10-42.

    Now, the really big question is where do you want to give up that gearing? Some guys are really strong and / or don't have steep climbs, so they're OK giving up the climbing gears and running 32 or 34T chain rings up front. We've seen customers using Wardens for Enduro racing running 36T and even 38T chainrings for heavily descent oriented courses. Conversely, if you're in a region where there a lots of really steep climbs, then a 30T chainring might work best and even down to 28T if fitness is a bit of a concern.

    There is no right answer: it really does depend upon what is "right" for you as a rider and your local terrain. The impact this may have on any theoretical "efficiency" and suspension performance is absolutely minimal compared to the benefits of having a correctly geared bike.

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  12. #12
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    cool

    ta

  13. #13
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    I am running a 30- tooth chainring with a 42-tooth one up on the back and it is perfect for the North Shore and squamish.

  14. #14
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    1x11 set up

    Quote Originally Posted by Skooks View Post
    I am running a 30- tooth chainring with a 42-tooth one up on the back and it is perfect for the North Shore and squamish.

    According to the Bike Gears Calculator that would give you ratio of 2.83 - 0.74.

    But if I plug in my old 9 speed (2x9) I get a ratio of 2.91 - 0.65, to get the same ratio I would have to go 1x11 with a 28NW up front and something like OneUps 45T extender [2.64 - 0.65].

    Seems a bit overly complicated to set up (and extra costly) when the whole idea of 1x11 is to simplify and streamline.

    I see Knolly's build kits go with a 32NW/11-42T or a 30NW/11-42T -- are people adding extenders to up the cassette to 44T (SRAM) or replacing the 30NW with a 28NW?

    Whats a good granny ratio for the Warden for those long climbs with grades averaging 15-20%, up to 30%?

  15. #15
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    I have fairly steep climbs around here and run the 32 with a 11x42. While most of the time I'm fine, I'm going to put a bailout granny on. Yesterday we did a couple of lift laps at Targhee and then a small climb on a xc trail- I was grunting and groaning pretty hard. Admittedly, my fitness level is the real problem, but until I give up beer I'm gonna need a bailout occasionally. I still love the one by system, I will probably convert my trail bike to it when it comes time for the refresh.

  16. #16
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    I've got 10 speed 28t front and a 42T rear. Sunday we did a long climb with some very steep bits and I only needed the 36t rear. The 42t is there for those days when I'm tired out from previous days of riding, it's ridiculously hot, I feel off, or just plain lazy. FI, I'm 57. 28-42 650b is the same as my old 22-34 26". Also when calculating gears use inches, as it gives finer detail than ratio. What the numbers mean doesn't matter it is how they compare. I may try a AB oval 30t next.
    I got some bad ideas in my head.

  17. #17
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    Thanks, I guess it comes down to how you plan for that extra gear:

    Go 30T NW and 11-40 (and a OneUp 45T extender)

    or

    30T NW and 11-42, and if you need to a 28T NW after a few rides to find out if you really need it. (which is a lot easier if you already have a cinch-based crank that can fit a 28T.

    Mind you the Absoluteblack's oval chain ring in a 30T seems like a good option, if you can find one.

  18. #18
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    I just picked up a Warden myself. Came from a 26' SC Nomad Carbon. I noticed on the Nomad when I switched from a 30t to a 34t everything on the bike got better- the suspension seemed to pop to life. Maybe it's just that it fit my riding style/ area better, but I seemed to constantly be in a better place in the crank circle if that makes sense. I recently picked up a (used) warden that is geared with a 30t and actually has a 42t on back. I was excited for the extra large bail out gear, but I'm finding I need it as I can never really get up to speed and use momentum due to the lack of leverage in the 30t. I've got a 34t and new chain on the way. Hopefully it stiffens the suspension and fixes my issue.
    I call for a mandate to allow only road bikes on trails to limit our speeds and increase our line picking skills-FB

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9.8m/s/s View Post
    I just picked up a Warden myself. Came from a 26' SC Nomad Carbon. I noticed on the Nomad when I switched from a 30t to a 34t everything on the bike got better- the suspension seemed to pop to life. Maybe it's just that it fit my riding style/ area better, but I seemed to constantly be in a better place in the crank circle if that makes sense. I recently picked up a (used) warden that is geared with a 30t and actually has a 42t on back. I was excited for the extra large bail out gear, but I'm finding I need it as I can never really get up to speed and use momentum due to the lack of leverage in the 30t. I've got a 34t and new chain on the way. Hopefully it stiffens the suspension and fixes my issue.
    Looking at the warden's profile: Linkage Design: Knolly

    It appears that it runs best with 2 or 3 chainrings, as a 22t gets you close to 90-100 anti-squat around a 36-42t rear cog. A 34 may get you around 60%, which means when you pedal (accelerate, especially if you are going rather slow on a climb) some of your pedal stroke will be going towards compressing the rear shock. Knolly's are relatively traditional FSR designs with low anti-squat and as such, the smallest chainring is usually going to have the best results for anti-squat and resisting the effect where the downward torque applied at the chainring tugs the rear cassette upwards and compresses the shock. I'd suggest a 28 or 30t with a 1x11 or eagle rear drivetrain. The ratio (small front, large rear) will help a bit. A larger front ring will make this worse.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  20. #20
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    Wow, thanks Jayem. Exactly the opposite of the VPP. That's the info I was looking for, even if it wasn't what I was hoping for. Parts are in the mail now so I'll bolt it together and give it a shot anyway. With any luck the ability to move farther forward with each pedal stroke will balance out the squat.
    I call for a mandate to allow only road bikes on trails to limit our speeds and increase our line picking skills-FB

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9.8m/s/s View Post
    I just picked up a Warden myself. Came from a 26' SC Nomad Carbon. I noticed on the Nomad when I switched from a 30t to a 34t everything on the bike got better- the suspension seemed to pop to life. Maybe it's just that it fit my riding style/ area better, but I seemed to constantly be in a better place in the crank circle if that makes sense. I recently picked up a (used) warden that is geared with a 30t and actually has a 42t on back. I was excited for the extra large bail out gear, but I'm finding I need it as I can never really get up to speed and use momentum due to the lack of leverage in the 30t. I've got a 34t and new chain on the way. Hopefully it stiffens the suspension and fixes my issue.
    I wouldn't worry too much about it affecting the suspension. Yes it affects the AS but Knolly's are set up for traction first and foremost. If you get to a smooth pedally section, use the shock climb switch or platform. I rarely use the CS albeit that is on an Endo not the Warden. I can understand what you mean though about being in a better place in the crank circle. 30T is nice on long climbs, but it feels just a bit off in the gearing in most sections. 32T suits my terrain and riding style much better, especially coming out of corners and accelerating, the gearing progression didn't fit right with 30T. I don't know that it makes the suspension feel more alive, but it sure helps when hitting a feature at a good speed/cadence rather than feeling like the gearing doesn't quite get you in that comfort zone.

    Which shock are you running? You might be able to add a couple psi or adjust compression/rebound settings to fine tune what you need.

  22. #22
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    11-42 & a 32 oval. Knocked out a 6000 ft climb over the weekend. Since going oval I find I am a much better climber and shift alot less. Not sure if it will complicate things with a chain guide though.

  23. #23
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    I switched recently to the Shimano 11-42 cassette with a 28T N/W chainring up front. 90% of the time the system works great, and I like having the extra range even if I don't use the 42T very often.
    10% of the time though, I wonder if this is a not "perfect" system.
    1) In the two biggest cogs, backpedaling always results in the chain dropping down the cassette. This means any time I stop on a steep technical climb, I risk the chain getting jammed up. My mechanic told me that Shimano's response to this was "don't backpedal".
    2) Shifting up to the 42T cog is anything but smooth. For that, it takes pre-planning as the jump up seems to really resist the shift. It definitely feels less integrated and more like an add-on cog.

    I'm wondering if everyone's having this problem, or if some systems are working better than others. Though I've been a big fan of Shimano, I'd consider the switch to SRAM if I was convinced there would be a palpable difference. But the price of admission once a new XD driver is thrown in makes me hesitant unless I'm really convinced.
    Thanks. Mrs jm2e
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  24. #24
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    That doesn't seem right. You should be able to backpedal with an 11-42. Derailleur or chain line issue maybe?

  25. #25
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    I had the same back pedal issue but either through chainwear or a bent deraileur it went away.

  26. #26
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    Can you give us some information on what system you're using? It's certainly happening to me with my current setup.
    Quote Originally Posted by boomslang64 View Post
    That doesn't seem right. You should be able to backpedal with an 11-42. Derailleur or chain line issue maybe?
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