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  1. #1
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    VITALMTB Reviewed the Chilcotin

    Here...

    They gave it a 60%...er, 3/5 stars.

    One negative made me laugh: "Low anti-squat numbers and some relatively slow rolling tires certainly didn't help in this area" - referring to the bike riding heavy...low-antisquat numbers is a feature, not a lack of one. I prefer to be able to tune my platform as I ride techy stuff.


    Grab your popcorn guys...

  2. #2
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    Just saw that via Facebook and man, if that doesn't sum up why short term bike tests are completely worthless I don't know what will. I have no idea why you would want the slack setting for JEM or any of the riding around Hurricane (exception being the Virgin FR stuff). Moab, GJ/Fruita, Hurricane are absolute perfect in the steep setting, the low BB and slow steering would be bad news for riding down there. Also goes to show why I hate Fox shocks, they've been terrible since the old RP3. Put a Monarch or CCDBAir and the the Chilcotin climbs amazingly well for a true AM machine. Lots of 3000+ vert days on XC trails in Park City have proved that to me. When it comes to technical climbing the Chilcotin is flat out the best technical climber I've ever ridden.

    I blown away by their comments about the flexy rear end and high maintenance. The rear end of the Chilcotin is one of the stiffest laterally that I've ridden. I ride in the same dry desert conditions and never had bearing issues with the old Endo or Chilcotin, pretty much zero maintenance other than maybe an occasional dab of lube on the 4x4 bushings if they squeak a bit (haven't had to do that on the Chilcotin yet).
    Sipping the Knolly Whisquillappa

  3. #3
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    Noel, time to up your advertising $ with Vital to get a better review.

  4. #4
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    I just read it as well, and was a bit surprised when I saw the 3/5 stars, until I read it. It sounds to me like bike was way over gunned for the trail, and they made a point of it. I am also very surprised by the flexy comments. I don't think this is the case at all, and we ride some pretty chunky stuff here, and I am by no means a light weight. The creaky bearings might be an indication that something was loose, hence the flexy feel. My bike is dead silent, and I have never serviced the bearings.

    When I demo'd an Ibis HD, it creaked so bad I wanted to walk back to the shop. Not only did it bother me, but the guys I rode with were annoyed as well. Ended up being a loose pivot and rear axle. It was so bad, that the shop offered me a free day on the bike.

    Anyway, I wouldn't get all worked up over their comments. To each his own, the Chili is not for everyone.
    "Three balls at once...who knew?" - Cotton McKnight

  5. #5
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    Say what?

    Quote Originally Posted by VitalMTB
    Some slight pedal feedback was also apparent in bumpy terrain on flat pedals.
    "Mi amor Nuevo Miércoles!"

    -cabra cadabra

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calhoun View Post
    Say what?
    Uh Duh....it's the wicked amount of chain growth....
    "Three balls at once...who knew?" - Cotton McKnight

  7. #7
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    That's just kidwoo trolling. Everyone knows _dw is the power-top over there.
    Nice KOM, sorry about your penis.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by B Gillespie View Post
    Noel, time to up your advertising $ with Vital to get a better review.
    I don't think so. People who needed a bike with a class of Chilcotin will go here more than believing what a jurno -who didn't know what flex and pedal feedback means- wrote. Noel doesn't need to advertise his bike to get a good rep from a the media.
    Ulating blencong sejatine tataraning lelaku...

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by softailteamrider View Post
    I don't think so. People who needed a bike with a class of Chilcotin will go here more than believing what a jurno -who didn't know what flex and pedal feedback means- wrote. Noel doesn't need to advertise his bike to get a good rep from a the media.
    Guess I should have put a sarcasm warning on my post...

  10. #10
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    All the good stuff:

    1) Nicely CNC'd pivot hardware, bottle mounts, the direct mount front derailleur, and a removable front derailleur cable stop if you should choose to run a chainguide.
    2) Cable routing is entirely external, and in general it's a clean setup.
    3) For those that run a dropper post, there are guides ready and waiting.
    4) One look at the Chilcotin and you know it means business.
    5) The Chilcotin was designed for the gravity-minded rider.
    6) A bike that's ready to be ridden hard down some hairy stuff.
    7) The leverage curve is pretty progressive, and the first bit of travel is tuned with traction in mind.
    8) The cockpit is comfortable, centered, and balanced.
    9) The reach is short enough to get the front end up with ease but long enough to feel relatively comfortable while climbing. Not too long, not too short... just right.
    10) A bike that's great for descents and comfortable at speed.
    11) It rode like a mini downhill bike, and the stable and relatively playful platform inspired a good deal of confidence.
    12) It allowed for a forgiving ride without any sketchy moments.
    13) Pulling up into a manual was easy and the progressive rear end offered good support, helping to make the ride pretty nimble.
    14) Changing lines was easy to do at all but the slowest of speeds.
    15) Much like the geometry, the suspension seemed best suited to the descents.
    16) The supple system performed well over small bumps, chatter, square edges, and jumps.
    17) The geometry didn't adversely impact climbing, and we think this was mostly a result of the suspension.
    18) Knolly frames are covered by a two-year warranty against defects and a three year crash replacement policy
    19) We found the Knolly Chilcotin to be a fun bike to ride when the going gets rough.
    20) We see this as a bike for the all-mountain adventurer looking to stand out and be little different from the herd.


    BEFORE READING ON, NOTE: We never had the chance to put the Chilcotin to use through the really hairy terrain it was undoubtedly designed for!!!!!!

    Notably, the Chilcotin is one of the only all-mountain bikes to retain the FOX 36 Float and 20mm front axle for 2013.
    This is something we can really appreciate, even though it adds a decent amount to the bike's overall weight.
    -- thats because the other so-called 'all-mountain bikes' they have reviewed are simply not as heavy duty as the Chilcotin.
    -- the chilcotin is all mountain / freeride bike.


    8 points of contention:

    21) It wasn't the most precise or responsive of all-mountain bikes
    -- they just needed wider bars and a shorter stem, they obviously havent read the chili build thread.

    22) We were still able to notice that the rear end wasn't as laterally stiff as we'd like, and flex was detectable in certain situations.
    -- not when i rode mine and the terrain was much harsher.

    23) Some slight pedal feedback was also apparent in bumpy terrain on flat pedals.
    -- it must be very slight as ive not encountered this yet.

    24) The FOX Float CTD shock performed capably in firmest of the Trail compression settings, and also helped to prevent a bit of bob that the bike seemed prone to.
    -- the bob was a failing of the CTD shock! its shite!

    25) Set to 30% sag and in Descend mode there was excess dive both front and rear over smallish drops and g-outs, so we'd suggest using a firmer Trail mode for most riding.
    -- again, i bought a knolly as i didnt want to buy a full build with CTD on it. Its shite!

    26) It didnt feel snappy
    -- ffs! its best as a 170mm bike, its not the endo!
    -- then they called the ride 'nimble', wtf?

    27) The weight of the bike and an active rear end make climbing and pedally trails a bit of a chore
    -- then they say...the geometry didn't adversely impact climbing, and we think this was mostly a result of the suspension...contradictory!

    28) The Four by 4 suspension design requires the use of several bushings and bearings, all of which need to be properly greased and torqued on a regular basis.
    -- im fine with that.

    MY SCORING SYSTEM

    21, 24, 25 and 27 are unfair so im clawing back the points. Add these four points to the 20 good points they gave and you get 24 out of 28 = 86% which rounded to the nearest half star is:

    4.5 stars

  11. #11
    TSC
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    Here's your problem right here:
    We rode the Knolly Chilcotin on our first day in Hurricane, Utah. Being new to the area, the group chose the famous JEM Trail as our adventure and let 'er rip.
    It's your first day and your hardcore riders, ready to have some killer fun! So you hit "the famous JEM trail*" with a group of fellow riders on 29ers/650bs, riding on a trail that is best ridden on a 29er hard-tail, like in this video. Description & Video: JEM Trail

    In this scenario, I wouldn't like the Chili either (especially in slack mode). If OTE had sent them to Flying Monkey trail, then the Chili riders would have been stoked; and everyone else would have been a lot less happy with their rides. Even if they had waited until they discovered Grafton Mesa trail (and some of the "alternative" exits) then they would have appreciated the Chili more.


    *I've never figured out why it's "the famous JEM trail". It's one of the easiest, non-eventful trails I have ridden. IMO, JEM trail is easier than Bear Claw Poppy (another St. George area trail) and I've seen kids with training wheels (not joking) on Bear Claw Poppy.
    "sounds like you need to find a better mechanic..." -- Calhoun

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by TSC View Post
    Here's your problem right here:

    It's your first day and your hardcore riders, ready to have some killer fun! So you hit "the famous JEM trail*" with a group of fellow riders on 29ers/650bs, riding on a trail that is best ridden on a 29er hard-tail, like in this video. Description & Video: JEM Trail

    In this scenario, I wouldn't like the Chili either (especially in slack mode). If OTE had sent them to Flying Monkey trail, then the Chili riders would have been stoked; and everyone else would have been a lot less happy with their rides. Even if they had waited until they discovered Grafton Mesa trail (and some of the "alternative" exits) then they would have appreciated the Chili more.

    *I've never figured out why it's "the famous JEM trail". It's one of the easiest, non-eventful trails I have ridden. IMO, JEM trail is easier than Bear Claw Poppy (another St. George area trail) and I've seen kids with training wheels (not joking) on Bear Claw Poppy.

    Yeah, thats it.

    For all their expertise, they didnt set the bike up right, tested it on inappropriate trails and bundled it into a classification that it isnt (Its AM/Freeride, not Trail/AM).

    When you look at Vitals better ratings recently they favour vpp bikes and i really didnt get on with vpp at all on the trails i ride.

    Also they recently rated the Commencal SX1 as a 3.5 when its an absolute diamond of a bike.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by TSC View Post
    Here's your problem right here:


    It's your first day and your hardcore riders, ready to have some killer fun! So you hit "the famous JEM trail*" with a group of fellow riders on 29ers/650bs, riding on a trail that is best ridden on a 29er hard-tail, like in this video. Description & Video: JEM Trail

    In this scenario, I wouldn't like the Chili either (especially in slack mode). If OTE had sent them to Flying Monkey trail, then the Chili riders would have been stoked; and everyone else would have been a lot less happy with their rides. Even if they had waited until they discovered Grafton Mesa trail (and some of the "alternative" exits) then they would have appreciated the Chili more.


    *I've never figured out why it's "the famous JEM trail". It's one of the easiest, non-eventful trails I have ridden. IMO, JEM trail is easier than Bear Claw Poppy (another St. George area trail) and I've seen kids with training wheels (not joking) on Bear Claw Poppy.
    Yep. Nailed it. They chose the wrong trail to really get the gist of what the Chili is all about. On my Hurricane test ride last year I rode JEM too and it obviously wasn't its strong suit (HT 29er territory for sure) but even so, it did fine. Now on Gooseberry and Grafton Mesa it ruled!

    Must've been a wonky wheel, loose pivot bolt or something because the rear end is stiff. You can call the Chilcotin a lot of things... but flexy is not one of them. Not sure what they're talking about there. People who generally ride and prefer VPP or dw-link bikes will sometimes mistake that slight squat in a HL bike as flex or wallow. It's a preference thing and it certainly doesn't show its strengths best on a trail like JEM.

    Otherwise, fair enough review I suppose for the limited time they spent on it and for the trail they chose.
    Last edited by KRob; 04-18-2013 at 12:21 AM.

  14. #14
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    How are they even pushing the bike hard enough on the JEM trail to find out if the rear end is flexy? You should be able to ride a bike with the weakest of linkages and not have flex on that trail?!

    I have an endorphin and delirium t and they are the stiffest bikes I have ridden.

  15. #15
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    Saw that review skimmed it over at first pissed then laughed then pissed again then like whatever
    These guys seriously don't have a clue! Lol must suck to be them.
    Rode gooseberry mesa with the Chilcotin. Then went over to check out Jem trail & guys at the trailhead unloading their full rigid 29ers giving me funny looks unloading my coiled Knolly day glo yellow Chilcotin about 5 minutes down the trail I knew why.
    Again must suck to be that ignorant about bikes in general.

  16. #16
    TSC
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    I don't think anything was intentional; and the riders appear to have the skills. I asked a few questions in the comments section that exposed a couple of the problems: 1) the JEM trail "system" is the only place the Chili was tested; and 2) they tested well-used, rental Chilicotins versus new bikes.

    frenchcr said it well, "Its AM/Freeride, not Trail/AM." IMO, most of the established trails in the St. George area are best ridden on either a new Endorphin (Goose, Zen, newly-revised Grafton, etc.) or a new Podium (King Kong, old Redbull Rampage area, new Redbull Rampage area). Nephi's Twist, AMA, and some new exits from Grafton are the only trails of which I can think of that might hit the Chili's sweet-spot--all require some decent suspension; but you need a bike you can pedal if you don't want to hike-a-bike.

    Side note: I've read that Flying Monkey is taming down to Chili-level difficulty if you walk a section or two.

    FTR: I've never ridden Nephi's Twist, Flying Monkey, King Kong, or the newer exits from Grafton and I probably won't until I get better control of my nerves and better at riding skinnies. All of these trails have severe penalty points--50+ foot falls--for missing your line.
    "sounds like you need to find a better mechanic..." -- Calhoun

  17. #17
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    Ok fair enough - so tell me

    If I were to "review" a 1974 Buick station wagon at Laguna Seca raceway & bash it for handling like crap is that accurate?

    Quote Originally Posted by TSC View Post
    I don't think anything was intentional; and the riders appear to have the skills. I asked a few questions in the comments section that exposed a couple of the problems: 1) the JEM trail "system" is the only place the Chili was tested; and 2) they tested well-used, rental Chilicotins versus new bikes.

    frenchcr said it well, "Its AM/Freeride, not Trail/AM." IMO, most of the established trails in the St. George area are best ridden on either a new Endorphin (Goose, Zen, newly-revised Grafton, etc.) or a new Podium (King Kong, old Redbull Rampage area, new Redbull Rampage area). Nephi's Twist, AMA, and some new exits from Grafton are the only trails of which I can think of that might hit the Chili's sweet-spot--all require some decent suspension; but you need a bike you can pedal if you don't want to hike-a-bike.

    Side note: I've read that Flying Monkey is taming down to Chili-level difficulty if you walk a section or two.

    FTR: I've never ridden Nephi's Twist, Flying Monkey, King Kong, or the newer exits from Grafton and I probably won't until I get better control of my nerves and better at riding skinnies. All of these trails have severe penalty points--50+ foot falls--for missing your line.

  18. #18
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    Sent Vitalmtb a link to this thread, let's see if they have the balls to reply.

  19. #19
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    Hey guys, lets not get to bent about one review. Some people just like vpp and dw link bikes. I don't know why personally but that doesn't make them bad bikes. I know that if I were to do a review of a vpp or dw bike, I'd be saying things that I don't like about it but I represent myself and no one else. Maybe these guys just have said what they wanted to which is they prefer vpp bikes and that would be fine. Really the only thing to fault them on is when they say the rear end is not stiff which Krob made a great point as to why they might have felt that. They can ride mine anytime and see if mine is flexy too? Or if anyone of you live near vital HQ, take yours by and offer them another ride on proper terrain.

  20. #20
    TSC
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    Quote Originally Posted by bionicman View Post
    Ok fair enough - so tell me

    If I were to "review" a 1974 Buick station wagon at Laguna Seca raceway & bash it for handling like crap is that accurate?
    My guess is that if any Chili riders with local trail knowledge were there, then the review would have been different (also, the bike setup); but that's not the fault of the reviewers. There is no conspiracy. They took what they were given and evaluated it to the best of their abilities. You can't fault them for that. If you're going to be upset, pick a different target for your hostilities (have you kicked your dog lately? J/K ).


    For perspective; the Chili review was part of the:
    2013 Vital MTB Trail Bike Test Sessions, That's a Wrap
    What do you get when you take 22 trail bikes, 5 test riders and 47 pounds of peanut M&M's into the desert near Saint George, Utah? You get the 2013 Vital MTB Test Sessions.

    2013 Vital MTB Trail Bike Test Sessions, That's a Wrap - Features - Vital MTB
    You've got to consider:

    • 5 test riders had to test 22 bikes in a limited amount of time so no in-depth testing was possible (i.e. no multiple days, multiple trails, and days for fine-tuning);
    • they didn't know the area and someone probably suggested the JEM trail system (UtahMountainBiking.com calls it a "classic");
    • you are not going to test every bike on the same trail (riders are going to want variation); and
    • everyone has their own likes and dislikes.


    After looking at the other bikes tested, I think the new Endorphin would better fit their definition of a "trail bike". My guess is that the Chilcotin wasn't part of the original lineup. (OTE, probably offered the Chilcotins to test; and that day happened on a JEM trail day.)

    Probably the most constructive thing to do is feel sorry that the reviewers wasted time on JEM trail (regardless of the bike), with so many good trails in the area; and feel sorry for Noel that his baby was the body builder at the Miss America pageant--so out of place!
    "sounds like you need to find a better mechanic..." -- Calhoun

  21. #21
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    No its a little bit more than that man, there is a few inconsistencies and hypocritical statements, not to mention (what I found ridiculous) putting it in slack mode and "forgetting" about it!? If the trail is not presenting any ordeal wouldn't you change the bike settings since it has that option so that your review may better reflect the circumstance/situation?

    I think the best description of that review is sloppy, unbalanced and dare I say rushed?

  22. #22
    TSC
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    Quote Originally Posted by ISharted View Post
    No its a little bit more than that man, there is a few inconsistencies and hypocritical statements, not to mention (what I found ridiculous) putting it in slack mode and "forgetting" about it!? If the trail is not presenting any ordeal wouldn't you change the bike settings since it has that option so that your review may better reflect the circumstance/situation?

    I think the best description of that review is sloppy, unbalanced and dare I say rushed?
    I was going to put an "edit" in my last comment but this is a better place. It does look like the Chili got the least saddle time by far. Most of the other bikes had significant saddle time on multiple trails, while the Chili was ridden on "the famous JEM trail" and that was all*. They probably shouldn't have included the Chilicotin in their review without comparable ride time on other trails.

    *My OTE loaner-for-a-day theory is getting stronger. I'm not trying to bash OTE. I bet they were trying to do Knolly a favor. I'm just seeing it as a reason that the Chilcotin wasn't given more of an equal chance.
    "sounds like you need to find a better mechanic..." -- Calhoun

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by ISharted View Post
    No its a little bit more than that man, there is a few inconsistencies and hypocritical statements, not to mention (what I found ridiculous) putting it in slack mode and "forgetting" about it!? If the trail is not presenting any ordeal wouldn't you change the bike settings since it has that option so that your review may better reflect the circumstance/situation?

    I think the best description of that review is sloppy, unbalanced and dare I say rushed?
    I think that is my main contention with the review as well. With all the hype over slack bikes it seem like they just got lazy and said, slack is better mmmkay and stuck with that when in no way could it ever be better on that kind of trail. They even make mention of how easy it would be to change settings but didn't bother to do it? Why Not!

    I basically have one bike I ride for everything and mine stays in steep mode 95% of the time (nothing outside of a bike park day will get me to change it up). I'll actually argue that the Chilcotin covers the 'Trail' category much better than most give it credit for but definitely not in slack setting.

    Basing a review of a long travel bike in a slack setting on an XC trail just isn't time well spent and is really doing a disservice to the brand. The point they make about this being the first bike they rode there because all their test bikes were being shipped/arriving/getting built, etc. doesn't make posting a half assed review okay. For some reason I don't think they would have posted such a review up if the only thing they had to ride was a carbon V10 on JEM.
    Sipping the Knolly Whisquillappa

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by TSC View Post
    I was going to put an "edit" in my last comment but this is a better place. It does look like the Chili got the least saddle time by far. Most of the other bikes had significant saddle time on multiple trails, while the Chili was ridden on "the famous JEM trail" and that was all*. They probably shouldn't have included the Chilicotin in their review without comparable ride time on other trails.

    *My OTE loaner-for-a-day theory is getting stronger. I'm not trying to bash OTE. I bet they were trying to do Knolly a favor. I'm just seeing it as a reason that the Chilcotin wasn't given more of an equal chance.
    I'm sure Quentin just hooked them up with a demo to ride when they got in town while they waited for bikes to get built. JEM is super easy to access from OTE. I don't think much of the high country stuff on the Mesas was rideable when they were there either.

    It's lame that Vital kept posting stuff like this via facebook while the tests were rolling Photo by vitalmtb • Instagram showing off the hucking abilities of the Niner RIP9 RDO on one of the most drop and jump filled trails in StG. Why not take the Chilcotin there in terrain it's intended for and ride the Niner on JEM?
    Sipping the Knolly Whisquillappa

  25. #25
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    The one comment that I did agree on was the "it was not very snappy". I like the way my Chilli acts like a tractor up the steepest of climbs.
    No wheel spin, even in the winter mud we get here in the Vancouver area. My other bikes that I have owned had the "chain growth" issue and could not climb the way my Chilcotin does.

    Maybe IT IS the tremendous amount of frame flex that allows it to climb so well?

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