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  1. #1
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    Retiring DT....endo, chilli, mojo? Want acceleration

    I've read all the threads & still can't decide.

    The DT has been the most fun bike I've owned. In the past year it's gone from a 44lb beast to a 33/34 lb do it all. I love the planted feel but want more acceleration & pop out of corners. I'm not doing drops like I used to but still want to point & shoot in rough rooted eroded trails. I run an air shock on DT & love it. I have a lyric 170mm fork I plan on using but could drop it to 160mm or perhaps run an angle set on the endo.

    If i am being honest, the endo is probably all I need but am worried I'm going to blow through the travel & give up too much small bump compliance. (Hence the mojo hd thought). Conversely, I'm worried the Chili is going to lack the added pop I want & feel slightly sluggish like the DT even in DT light mode.

    I have an 8" DH bike (Santa Cruz driver 8) & 4.5" xc bike (intense spider 2). All this matters is I would go light on a chili build or medium heavy on an endo build (160mm fork, dropper post, haven wheels).

    I wish a demo was an option but I'm in Houston with no Knolly dealers & I don't think Dusty makes it this far south. Frankly, nobody comes here for the riding.

    Considering I am looking for more acceleration but a still planted feel... Any guidance?

  2. #2
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    you said it with your fork option, the chili is for you. the new endo is not for big forks and is not chili light, it is more comparable the the spider in your line up and with both of them, you'd have to much overlap for sure. the chili fits into your stable perfectly and i'd bet it would be your go to bike for almost anything you head out to ride, including wherever you use that driver.

  3. #3
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    That is exactly what I was thinking with fork & spyder overlap.. I think I even saw a post by dusty that said pick your fork then your frame.

    I use the D8 for lift trips only.

    Anybody know the Chili weight with a float shock? I've heard 7lbs & read 8 lbs. not sure which?

  4. #4
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    i believe my medium painted frame with DB air was 8 pounds 3 ounces

  5. #5
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    Thanks..that is about what I though but a little more than I was hoping.

    At least my DT weighted 11.5 lbs new with roco air & headset... Anything will be lighter.

  6. #6
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    My chilis has a new Lyric Air 170mm and the Fox Float on it air and the total weight of my bike came to 31 pounds. I could have gone lighter with a different wheelset if needed .. Whats cool about the Chili is it can take a 160mm fork up to 180mm so the diversity is there, i think with the Endo yea it might rip a little faster but 160mm fork is its limit..

    As a rider you can always get better , faster, and skinnier if needed haha .. From the sounds of it , i think your best bet would be the chili since you have the full on DH bike and the XC bike ... I say pull the trigger on the chili and call it a day , you wont regret . The bike is active so you will have the pop you are looking for with the proper suspension dialed in of course .

  7. #7
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    I'd say it's between the Mojo HD and Chilcotin. I remember a really good comparo between those two bikes on both the Ibis and Knolly boards. Check it out if you already haven't.

  8. #8
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    My medium raw w/dbair was under 8lbs. Can't remember the exact weight though but I may have a pic somewhere I'll have a look.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by dulyebr View Post
    I'd say it's between the Mojo HD and Chilcotin. I remember a really good comparo between those two bikes on both the Ibis and Knolly boards. Check it out if you already haven't.
    I owned a Mojo HD, then I got my Chili...turns out the chili owns the Mojo. Nuff said.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by VanGor44 View Post
    I owned a Mojo HD, then I got my Chili...turns out the chili owns the Mojo. Nuff said.
    Well said.

    Since I posted this on the Knolly board I'm leaning towards the Knolly. I love the DT and figure the chili will be the same but better! I've also never heard of somebody trading in a chili for a mojo.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by dulyebr View Post
    I'd say it's between the Mojo HD and Chilcotin. I remember a really good comparo between those two bikes on both the Ibis and Knolly boards. Check it out if you already haven't.
    I've read pretty much all the threads. They always end in a tangent but the first page or two are pretty good. I've all but ruled out the mojo but have always like the look. The Knolly feel is a known for me that I like. No mojo hd's for me to test. (Seems competitive cyclist used to do mail order demos before the backcountry merger but no luck locally)

    I rode today & other than pushing a little harder I really love the point & shoot feel. Plus I meet more people asking about the Knolly...I think I even have a few riding buddies because it stuck out & started a conversation.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by wilks View Post
    My medium raw w/dbair was under 8lbs. Can't remember the exact weight though but I may have a pic somewhere I'll have a look.
    Good to know. The float should be even lighter. (Though I suspect I'll end up with a pushed monarch if they still make them.)

  13. #13
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    i agree with vangor 100%. i also had a mojo hd and the chilcotin owns it in every way

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by invol2ver View Post
    i agree with vangor 100%. i also had a mojo hd and the chilcotin owns it in every way
    ....Let me put it another way.....
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Retiring DT....endo, chilli, mojo? Want acceleration-pwnership.jpg  


  15. #15
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    haha. thats awesome

  16. #16
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    I think that drives the point home!

    Nice bike stand by the way.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by invol2ver View Post
    haha. thats awesome
    +2 funny stuff

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by VanGor44 View Post
    ....Let me put it another way.....
    Well done, take it away sir!
    Nice KOM, sorry about your penis.

  19. #19
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    I'm in Houston, you can ride my Chili. #problemsolved

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by B Gillespie View Post
    I'm in Houston, you can ride my Chili. #problemsolved
    That's a surprise. I have never seen another Knolly locally.

    I really apreciate the offer. What part of town are you in?

  21. #21
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    See , besides the bikes being bad@ass , the owners are good people as well .. Super cool of B Gillespie to offer you to take a spin on his bike .

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by string View Post
    That's a surprise. I have never seen another Knolly locally.

    I really apreciate the offer. What part of town are you in?
    No worries, I like beer. Heights. Mine isn't a light build, so it's not as snappy as some of the carpet fibre clad air sprung builds on here.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by VanGor44 View Post
    I owned a Mojo HD, then I got my Chili...turns out the chili owns the Mojo. Nuff said.
    I don't know that I would go that far. Both the Mojo HD and the Chilcotin are exceptional bikes and I think the difference between the two really comes down to the terrain and usage than anything else.

    If your trails are climb on a fireroad for 2,000ft of vertical and point the bike down on steep, rugged, and technical terrain, there is no question in my mind that the Chilcotin will be the right tool for the job. It is more planted than the Mojo HD and holds lines better. It is truly a gravity bike that can pedal to the top.

    The Chilcotin is more playful, the suspension returns energy better than the HD (at least with a CCDB Air on the Chilcotin vs Float CTD and Vivd Air on the HD). On the climbs, the Chilcotin doesn't transfer as much power to the wheel as the HD and feels in general more sluggish. They both hold traction very well with maybe a slight edge to the Chilcotin (again, the comparison is biased because of different shocks) but the HD manages weight transfer under load better (that's really the strength of the DW link, in my opinion).

    I recently spent a week riding in Sedona on a Mojo HD and was really impressed by how versatile this bike is. Even with a Fox 34 160mm CTD fork it felt at home on the steeper trails and it pedals really really well on loose ball-bearing style surfaces. I have been riding exclusively flat pedals this season because of ACL surgery last May and I did not get bumped off the pedals even in the nastiest pedaling conditions. If I couldn't make a climb, it's because the legs let out.

    I am headed back to Sedona for more riding at the end of this week and am bringing the Chilcotin this time. It will be fun to have a direct comparison on the same trails. I expect to be hooting and hollering with reckless abandon down Tomahawk but suffer a bit more grinding up to the Hangover saddle.

    One of the best days of the Sedona trip went like this: morning ride on the Hogs loop (exposed slickrock, steep punchy climbs, and technical moves on twisty downhills), mid-day ride was the outer loop loop in Dry Creek (Chuck Wagon/Mescal/Aerie/Western Civ/Lost Frontier) - 15 miles of fast and rolling desert singletrack, sweet cornering and fast and loose surfaces, followed by a quick transfer and mad rush up Schnebly Hill Rd (2 mile rutted out 1,000ft climb on jeep road) to meet a group ride on Hangover (steep climbs, lots of exposure, technical steep slickrock downhill, fast and loose DH). If I owned both a Chilcotin and an HD, for a day like that I would reach for the HD.

    I live upstate NY and for my local trails, the Chilcotin is overkill but it is my travel bike and it has to feel at home riding in bike parks, in long above-treeline slogs, technical steep downhills, and everything in between.

    Had I tested a Mojo HD before purchasing the Chilcotin it would have been a harder decision for me but ultimately, I would pick the Chilcotin again. This is because I also ride a Canfield Yelli Screamy that takes on the faster ride duty. If it had to be a one-bike stable, for me and on the trails I ride 80% of the time, the Mojo HD would serve me better. So as I said, it comes down to ride terrain and preference.

  24. #24
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    String, check your pms. FYI, I don't check mine much, but incl my mobile number.

  25. #25
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    Where can you ride the DT in TX without it being 'too much' bike? I once saw a guy on a Transition Blindside on the trails in Cameron Park (Waco) & he was hiking it alot.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by bitewerks View Post
    Where can you ride the DT in TX without it being 'too much' bike? I once saw a guy on a Transition Blindside on the trails in Cameron Park (Waco) & he was hiking it alot.
    No where & any where!

    Too much bike most places but still fun.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by string View Post
    No where & any where!

    Too much bike most places but still fun.
    DT is just right for some ATX area trails...but then again, so is the chilcotin.

    I'd have to go back and re-read the DT vs D ride comparisons, but I will say that my Chilcotin is faster than the D was up, much more efficient. Of course, many variables here, avy vs. cc suspension, lighter build, etc, but this bike does feel to accelerate faster and pump a bit easier.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by CharacterZero View Post
    DT is just right for some ATX area trails...but then again, so is the chilcotin.

    I'd have to go back and re-read the DT vs D ride comparisons, but I will say that my Chilcotin is faster than the D was up, much more efficient. Of course, many variables here, avy vs. cc suspension, lighter build, etc, but this bike does feel to accelerate faster and pump a bit easier.
    That was my thought of the Chili vs DT vs D. Still plush & stable but a bit quicker. Doesn't hurt that the chili looses a few pounds off the top.

  29. #29
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    A 32 lb. Chilly is right up your alley. I pedaled my 1st new Endo this weekend in AZ and it's definitely on the XC/Trailbike side. Very fast and snappy but I would not put a 36 on it and expect it to be Chilly-lite. The Chilly is definitely snappier than the DT but I would not call it an overly snappy bike. It is more active than any other bike it's class that I've ridden. I have been able to add more snap to it with tuning the CCDBA but I always end up tuning it back.

    The Mojo is a fine bike and lots of folks like it. A friend of mine has one and I've hopped on it a few times. Definitely a snappy pedaler. I'd say that it leans more towards a trailbike than they Chilly does. Personally, I don't like how it feels like the suspension always has the propedal turned way up. I also don't like:
    - No ISCG tabs
    - Coil and piggy back shocks can be an issue
    - Not a fan of the Maxle.

    Hope that helps.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by woodyak View Post
    A 32 lb. Chilly is right up your alley. I pedaled my 1st new Endo this weekend in AZ and it's definitely on the XC/Trailbike side. Very fast and snappy but I would not put a 36 on it and expect it to be Chilly-lite. The Chilly is definitely snappier than the DT but I would not call it an overly snappy bike. It is more active than any other bike it's class that I've ridden. I have been able to add more snap to it with tuning the CCDBA but I always end up tuning it back.

    The Mojo is a fine bike and lots of folks like it. A friend of mine has one and I've hopped on it a few times. Definitely a snappy pedaler. I'd say that it leans more towards a trailbike than they Chilly does. Personally, I don't like how it feels like the suspension always has the propedal turned way up. I also don't like:
    - No ISCG tabs
    - Coil and piggy back shocks can be an issue
    - Not a fan of the Maxle.

    Hope that helps.
    Definitely helps. Having two VPP bikes which I don't consider too far off base from the DW;they just aren't quite as plush as the Knolly when pedaling on choppy terrain. They are active when opened up...but the Knolly is better. I am sure I would like the mojo but think I will have more fun with the Chili. I can always build a Mojo SL next year if I want to go super light....of course Knolly will probably have a Endo light 27.5 carbon electric bike by then that will keep my interest!

    I really think I can get a build close to 30lbs +/- a pound using most of my current parts. Running a 1x9 or 1x10 set up should give me all the pop I need. (I'm getting by with a 32T chainring and an 11x32 cassette on the DT...I will at least move to a 30T ring and either an 11x34 9spd or 11x36 10 spd. Plus I always have my 5" bike when I really want to go fast or up.

  31. #31
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    Tell ya what, use the money to move, keep the DT
    Nice KOM, sorry about your penis.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrwhlr View Post
    Tell ya what, use the money to move, keep the DT
    I wish I could...Unfortunately my wife does not like the cold which rules out most cool mountain towns and my kids like their school. Plus work is here which pays for all the toys.

    I thought about a vacation home but a Chili is cheaper than the monthly cost.

  33. #33
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    I have a lead on a good deal on a new Chili. The best deal comes with a new Knolly tuned Rp23 instead of the CTD.

    I'm going light so I am opting out of the CCDB Air. Is the Float CTD worth an upgrade. I am also considering with out a shock and getting a Pushed Rockshox Monarch if Push has any left. (I have a call into them but am guessing they are at lunch).

    Thougths?

  34. #34
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    get the DBair, the weight penalty is well worth the performance gain. And I am sure the penalty is negligible.
    "Mi amor Nuevo Miércoles!"

    -cabra cadabra

  35. #35
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    I really thought about the DB air but am worried about getting full travel and tend to be a set and forget type of user. Most of my shocks have been tuned by push and my thought process was to go with the RP23 ride it for a month or so to get the feel then send it too push.
    .

  36. #36
    RideDirt
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    Trust me , I have the rp23 on my frame and I already got a coil shock comin in this week .. If your worried about weight then shed a couple pounds from your body not bike performance .. That being said at least get the DB air so it can handle everything you throw at it and perform great ... You'll be amazed at how much of a difference a shock can do .. I bet the DBair will feel better then a pushd whatever you get.

  37. #37
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    The full travel issue has been resolved, the new air sleeve corrected that problem. The shock is also very friendly to us "set and forget" types.
    "Mi amor Nuevo Miércoles!"

    -cabra cadabra

  38. #38
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    2 more possibilities to potentially add??

    New Norco Range Killer B and the new Banshee Rune. Norco is 650B only and the Rune converts between 26" and 650B by changing the rear dropouts. Rune has 3 position adjustable geometry with the flip chips in the back of the swingarm which alters the BB height and HA. Very slick and the new models use bearings now in all the suspension pivots.

    I've ridden the Banshee Prime 29'er and the VPP KS Link is the real deal. Thought it was wonderful, active and plush. Both have very efficient pedaling characteristics/dynamics from the suspension linkage program charts I've looked at (and dare I say it here.....better than the Knolly but I'm aware that doesn't paint the entire picture so don't slam me for it). Links if you want to check it out.

    650 size rocks BTW (I've been running it 2+ years) and the tire/fork/rim choices are there now and getting better monthly.

    Test rode a beefy Mojo HD 160 recently (32.2lbs). Setup 1 x 10 with 32 ring was not for me but the bike was very fun, nice efficient pedaling and climbing and popped off things like no other bike I've ridden. Combo of the DW Link and the really short WB (44.6" on a large with 160 fork) probably the reason. Yes, very versatile bike and also 650 capable....see the theme here??
    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

  39. #39
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    I really thought about 650B. I really wanted to try it out. However, I have a new set of 26" wheels and a fork less than a year old. Did not want to spend $2K extra to experiment.

  40. #40
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    Thanks for all the help...Chili in Day Glow Yellow ordered! Should be here in a few weeks.

  41. #41
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    So I had a chance to ride in Sedona on my Chili for a few days and have a direct comparison with the Mojo HD on the same trails. I was a bit surprised by the fact that in spite of the apparent efficiency of the Mojo HD, the Chilcotinwith a well tuned shock felt almost as good slogging up loose climbs. The Chilcotin felt quite a bit better in sections were traction was marginal (for once, I got to ride in Arizona in wet weather) and in fact I cleaned more of the Highline and High on the Hog climbs this time than I ever have, even with the wet conditions. Downhill it's not even a competition as the Chilcotin just dwarfs the Mojo HD. I carried more speed through sections that normally I tip-toe through and had just plain more fun.

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