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  1. #1
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    Replacing my dead Endorphin - do I get the New Endo or the New Chili?

    My beloved endorphin passed away this morning - may she rest in peace. What am I going to ride now?

    I think the old endorphin may have been the perfect bike, but I have heard different things about the new endorphin.

    1. The new endorphin is faster and more trail-oriented. Still totally rad, but different.
    2. The new chilcotin feels closer to the old endo than the new endo does.

    Can anybody with experience weigh in on this? I dont want to lug around more bike than I need with the chili, but I dont want to be under-biked for all the awesome slickrock where I live with the new endo.


    Thanks

  2. #2
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    Re: Replacing my dead Endorphin - do I get the New Endo or the New Chili?

    Both are a lot of fun, but I've only ridden them around here in CA. You should probably demo both.


    I enjoy the joke, hurkin or laverkn?

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hurkinite View Post
    My beloved endorphin passed away this morning - may she rest in peace. What am I going to ride now?

    I think the old endorphin may have been the perfect bike, but I have heard different things about the new endorphin.

    1. The new endorphin is faster and more trail-oriented. Still totally rad, but different.
    2. The new chilcotin feels closer to the old endo than the new endo does.

    Can anybody with experience weigh in on this? I dont want to lug around more bike than I need with the chili, but I dont want to be under-biked for all the awesome slickrock where I live with the new endo.


    Thanks
    Chilcotin. My medium raw Chili with RP23 was .5lbs lighter than my Gen1 white Endo with RP23. Not only is it lighter, but it pedals better, has a better seat-tube angle, is a better climber and descender. It's stiffer, has more travel, is beefy as hell and even more fun to ride.

    I also have a new Endo and it is quite different from the Chili or old Endo.
    "Three balls at once...who knew?" - Cotton McKnight

  4. #4
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    eHigh, Laverkin is full of white trash. All the high class city folk like me live on the Hurkin side of the bridge. My neighbors are so fancy almost none of us keep more than 2 non-working vehicles on our property at any given time.

    I am demoing the Chili tomorrow. Hopefully, I will get some time on the endo too before I have to decide.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiSS'er View Post
    Chilcotin.

    I also have a new Endo and it is quite different from the Chili or old Endo.
    Thanks tiSSer, that is exactly the kind of input I am looking for.

  6. #6
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    What kind of trails and what kind of riding?

  7. #7
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    Hurkinite, I ride down there a bunch and with both the Chilly and the new Endo ( as well as the old Endo). Obviously the new endo is perfect for the likes of gould's, gem, hurricane rim loop, prospector & churchrocks, the santa clara area and bear claw/poppy. Where there is a difference depends on how you chose to ride the goose and little creek. The new Endo can be great out there but it you are trying to follow Quinton, you are gonna want the chilly.
    Another factor is how you build it. Are you just swapping parts from old Endo on to new frame?
    Fortunately for you, you have a shop in town that has both to demo so enough talking, just go ride both and let us know what you decide is right for you!

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hurkinite View Post
    My beloved endorphin passed away this morning - may she rest in peace.


    Thanks
    so what was the cause of death? seriously
    breezy shade

  9. #9
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    This is a good read:

    Chili Endo comparison
    If jackasses could fly this place would be an airport.

  10. #10
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    Had a chance to demo the new chilcotin out at Little Creek Mesa on Saturday. It was definitely smoother over the chunk. You definitely ride down in the frame more than on the old endo as well. I'm not sure it pedalled quite as nicely as my old endo, but its hard to say for sure because I was fighting a cold.

    Haven't had a chance to demo the endo yet, but the chilcotin was definitely nice.

    nhodge, I was hesitant to write about the specifics of the failure because Knolly has been really good about doing a crash replacement of the frame for me. The frame weld separated at the junction of the seat tube and top tube. Thankfully, I wasn't doing anything stupid at the time so I was fine - just riding along and suddenly I had no seat.

  11. #11
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    havnt rode my endo yet so cant comment on wht its like,,, but one thing is for sure you can always rely on the guys at knolly to sort you out, there afterales is amazing.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiSS'er View Post
    Not only is it lighter, but it pedals better, has a better seat-tube angle, is a better climber and descender. It's stiffer, has more travel, is beefy as hell and even more fun to ride.
    This is what my riding buddy has been saying, too. He was debating keeping his 1st-gen Endo as a smaller bike for XC duties, but realized there was no point.
    "Back off, man. I'm a scientist." - Dr. Peter Venkman

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  13. #13
    Knollician
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    Quote Originally Posted by evasive View Post
    This is what my riding buddy has been saying, too. He was debating keeping his 1st-gen Endo as a smaller bike for XC duties, but realized there was no point.
    Completely agree. The Chili is so much better than the original Endo....I almost feel guilty saying such a thing because of my love for the gen 1 Endo. But, Noel hit the Chili out of the park. It is better in everyway. I think what he did with the new Endo is perfect as well. It keeps the 2 bike separated.
    "Three balls at once...who knew?" - Cotton McKnight

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by pfarrell View Post
    Hurkinite, I ride down there a bunch and with both the Chilly and the new Endo ( as well as the old Endo). Obviously the new endo is perfect for the likes of gould's, gem, hurricane rim loop, prospector & churchrocks, the santa clara area and bear claw/poppy. Where there is a difference depends on how you chose to ride the goose and little creek. The new Endo can be great out there but it you are trying to follow Quinton, you are gonna want the chilly.
    Another factor is how you build it. Are you just swapping parts from old Endo on to new frame?
    Fortunately for you, you have a shop in town that has both to demo so enough talking, just go ride both and let us know what you decide is right for you!
    Good questions.

    I would always suggest to anyone who loves their gen 1 Endo to go Chili as the ride is going to be similar, but better. If he said he liked his Endo, but felt over-biked at times, or wants a more XC bike, then I would go toward the new Endo. I'm not sure I would be as happy replacing my old Endo with my new Endo as a one bike stable. I would prefer to have the Chili as a one bike if forced into that situation. Again, that is me and you guys know what we ride so it's not really debatable in my mind.
    "Three balls at once...who knew?" - Cotton McKnight

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiSS'er View Post
    Good questions.

    I would always suggest to anyone who loves their gen 1 Endo to go Chili as the ride is going to be similar, but better. If he said he liked his Endo, but felt over-biked at times, or wants a more XC bike, then I would go toward the new Endo. I'm not sure I would be as happy replacing my old Endo with my new Endo as a one bike stable. I would prefer to have the Chili as a one bike if forced into that situation. Again, that is me and you guys know what we ride so it's not really debatable in my mind.
    tiSS'er nailed it.

  16. #16
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    Thanks for all the advice guys. I am beginning to think maybe this is like the Pepsi / Coke thing where you pour them side by side in a paper cup and 95% of people can't tell the difference. Is the same build on each frame going to be indistinguishable to the majority of riders? I'm not a connoisseur who has ridden 200 different frames, but I did LOVE my old endo - maybe to the point that it was unhealthy.

    I had the chance to ride the new endorphin last night out on the slickrock and this morning on some flowy singletrack.

    Some thoughts about the new endorphin next to my old endo:
    1. The endorphin is fast and pedals super easy on the smooth ups -- but isn't that what my 29er HT is for?
    2. The ride is harsher than either my old endo or the chili. I bottomed out 3 times on a 2 foot drop to flat this morning - something I'm not sure I could do on my old endo if I tried. Similar suspension at similar pressures.
    3. It is harder to move the back end up or around - I wear flats.
    4. It rails the corners like crazy.

    I have to get back to work, but I will come add more later.

  17. #17
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    Work! It's such a darn nuisance.

    If you have a 29er HT I'd definitely go with the chilcotin. It's going to be better on the chunk, tech, and gnarl than the endo and the 29er will be perfect for the Jem/Bearclaw Poppy/Santa Clara trails.

    I don't think my chili is bad on that smoother, buff, flowy stuff either.....but if I had a 29er HT I'd surely use that tool on that kind of trail.

    The only thing I'd want an endo for that I wouldn't want to do on a 29er HT is enduro racing......but then again the chili is a pretty good enduro mount too.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hurkinite View Post
    Thanks for all the advice guys. I am beginning to think maybe this is like the Pepsi / Coke thing where you pour them side by side in a paper cup and 95% of people can't tell the difference. Is the same build on each frame going to be indistinguishable to the majority of riders? I'm not a connoisseur who has ridden 200 different frames, but I did LOVE my old endo - maybe to the point that it was unhealthy.

    I had the chance to ride the new endorphin last night out on the slickrock and this morning on some flowy singletrack.

    Some thoughts about the new endorphin next to my old endo:
    1. The endorphin is fast and pedals super easy on the smooth ups -- but isn't that what my 29er HT is for?
    2. The ride is harsher than either my old endo or the chili. I bottomed out 3 times on a 2 foot drop to flat this morning - something I'm not sure I could do on my old endo if I tried. Similar suspension at similar pressures.
    3. It is harder to move the back end up or around - I wear flats.
    4. It rails the corners like crazy.

    I have to get back to work, but I will come add more later.
    First, I totally agree with you on points 1 and 4. I assume you had the Fox CTD shock on the back. Points 2 and 3 were likely caused by underinflation of the shock. A local shop improved the CTD dramatically on my 2013 Endo by changing the internal spacer. That allowed me to run 25 less psi (from 180 to 155psi) for a smoother ride, and ramped up the spring rate nicely to prevent bottoming. I weigh 210.

    The Chili is a beast intended for the most demanding of technical challenges and substantial jumps and drops, the Endo is a race car that can handle challenging DH. However, it's not for big drops and large jumps.

    Last edited by Herzalot; 05-21-2013 at 07:44 PM.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by KRob View Post
    Work! It's such a darn nuisance.

    If you have a 29er HT I'd definitely go with the chilcotin. It's going to be better on the chunk, tech, and gnarl than the endo and the 29er will be perfect for the Jem/Bearclaw Poppy/Santa Clara trails.

    I don't think my chili is bad on that smoother, buff, flowy stuff either.....but if I had a 29er HT I'd surely use that tool on that kind of trail.

    The only thing I'd want an endo for that I wouldn't want to do on a 29er HT is enduro racing......but then again the chili is a pretty good enduro mount too.
    Krob is right. I've had the Chilly for a full season and I just got the Endo to replace my Yeti ASR5C. Your 29r HT would overlap too much with the Endo. I'm thinking for you build up a Chilly nice and light, say in the 32 + or - range and be done with it.

  20. #20
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    I disagree, but WTF do I know. A 29er HT and an Endo are completely different ride characteristics and capabilities. Building a light Chili defeats the purpose of the bike. A light Chili would mean a 34 fork, a CTD shock and light tires, wheels and crankset. Nope. Get a Chili if you go big, drop hard and live for the super-technical downs and chundery climbs. Get an Endo if you are like most trail-riders, but with a desire for a bike that rails the turns yet descends with confidence.

    ps: tiSSer and a few other Chili addicts ride ridiculously technical, rocky, slow, ledgy stuff. A burly Chili is the only way to go on that landscape.

  21. #21
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    Replacing my dead Endorphin - do I get the New Endo or the New Chili?

    Not necessarily. My buddy's built up under 32. Drivetrain (not visible) is XX1. Large frame with a CCDB-A, Lyrik RC2 DH, Flow EX and Hope wheels, and tubeless DHFs.

    That's lighter than his Endorphin with a Velvet and CTD, and Hadleys laced to Flows (and a 2x9 drivetrain).

    Duh- forgot to attach the pic.
    "Back off, man. I'm a scientist." - Dr. Peter Venkman

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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Herzalot View Post
    I disagree, but WTF do I know. A 29er HT and an Endo are completely different ride characteristics and capabilities. Building a light Chili defeats the purpose of the bike. A light Chili would mean a 34 fork, a CTD shock and light tires, wheels and crankset. Nope. Get a Chili if you go big, drop hard and live for the super-technical downs and chundery climbs. Get an Endo if you are like most trail-riders, but with a desire for a bike that rails the turns yet descends with confidence.

    ps: tiSSer and a few other Chili addicts ride ridiculously technical, rocky, slow, ledgy stuff. A burly Chili is the only way to go on that landscape.
    I guess I should clarify...

    Endo and 29'r are in the same category. XC/Trail bikes. Yeah, the Endo is gonna handle burlier stuff but I would not own both an Endo and a 29'r HT unless I made the 29'r around 20 lbs. and dedicate it to races. But the stuff in NE is on the burly side so maybe with more gentle terrain someone could get could use out of both.

    First off, I would never think of putting a 34 on a Chilly. When I said lighter I meant stuff like going tubeless, Carbon cranks, 1x10, etc. I would consider my 32 to 33 lb. Chilly to be a lighter build but that includes CCDBA, VAN36, 2.4 HR2 Tires, Flow rims, dropper, etc. Something built up enough to hit chunk and lift access but light enough to still not kill yourself when Trail and AM riding. I would consider a burly build a 180 fork, coil, 2 ply tires, beefier rims, something weighing in around 35/36 lbs.

    Yeah, fully aware of what tiSSer rides. I was at Knoll-fest 2012

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by evasive View Post
    Not necessarily. My buddy's built up under 32. Drivetrain (not visible) is XX1. Large frame with a CCDB-A, Lyrik RC2 DH, Flow EX and Hope wheels, and tubeless DHFs.

    That's lighter than his Endorphin with a Velvet and CTD, and Hadleys laced to Flows (and a 2x9 drivetrain).

    Duh- forgot to attach the pic.
    Yep, I could easily get my Chili to 31.5lbs by just changing out my rear shock, and could sensibly get it to 30lbs if it were my only bike. As someone who has extensive time on all 3 bikes, I will say it again. If you like the suspension feel of your Gen1 Endo, get a Chili. The frame is burlier, lighter, stiffer, better pedaling, and the suspension works even better than the Gen1 Endo. The new Endo, though no slouch, has a very different feeling than the old Endo, and is distinctly different than the Chili.
    "Three balls at once...who knew?" - Cotton McKnight

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Herzalot View Post
    Building a light Chili defeats the purpose of the bike. A light Chili would mean a 34 fork, a CTD shock and light tires, wheels and crankset. Nope. Get a Chili if you go big, drop hard and live for the super-technical downs and chundery climbs. Get an Endo if you are like most trail-riders, but with a desire for a bike that rails the turns yet descends with confidence.

    ps: tiSSer and a few other Chili addicts ride ridiculously technical, rocky, slow, ledgy stuff. A burly Chili is the only way to go on that landscape.
    This isnt right. My Chili came in at under 31lbs (check the build thread) and i use it as a mini DH bike and a Trail bike. Im running Float 36s and an RP23 and DT Swiss 440 hubbed wheels with Big Betty tyres. When i switch out for a ccdb coil it will be just over 31lbs. I also use it for rocky climbs which are tough going for riders on any bike, and the Chili is great for it. My build would handle TiSSers terrain easily since i think our terrain in Scotland (especially my local Innerleithen) is just as harsh, maybe even worse as we've got the rocks and rain. Our terrian is hard packed with rocks underneath with thin layers of soil/clay ontop to create durable trails with good drainage. My Chili is plenty tough enough for all of it. The average endo comes in at 27lbs. Thats only a few lighter than my Chili. I couldnt use an Endo for everything i do on my Chili, but opposite is made feasibile (im doing it most days of the week) due to the climbing ability of the Chili. The only thing that makes my Chili slower than an Endo is those few pounds difference and the 2.4 sticky Big Betty tyres i use.

    I picked the Chili over the Endo as it is a more versatile bike. Im buying an Endo later in the year, ive planned the build already, owning the Chilli first and riding it on all sorts, i know i did things the right way round (i.e. which bike to buy first).

    If presented with the choice between the two, get a Chili, unless your trails are timid compared to moderate downhill tracks..
    2013 Knolly Endorphin | 2013 Knolly Chilcotin | 2014 Knolly Podium.

  25. #25
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    @evasive...Not sure how those weight comparisons are even possible. CCDB is 3/4 lbs heavier than CTD. Lyric is 3/4 to 1 lb heavier than Velvet. Wheels are a wash. Endo frame is 1 lb lighter than Chili. Front dérailleur, chainring, cable and shift lever maybe add a pound back. Can I assume a dropper post on each bike? All told, the Endo built as described should be 2-3 lbs lighter than the Chili in the picture, unless it's the old Endo.

    Strange.

    BTW, I am not disagreeing with tiSS'er. The Chili is more like the old Endo, but presumably better. He loves his Chili and rides gnarly stuff. I love my Endo and ride more moderate stuff. I found the Chili to be more cumbersome than my riding style and preferences required. Not a disagreement, different needs.

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