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  1. #1
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    Replacing my dead Endorphin - do I get the New Endo or the New Chili?

    My beloved endorphin passed away this morning - may she rest in peace. What am I going to ride now?

    I think the old endorphin may have been the perfect bike, but I have heard different things about the new endorphin.

    1. The new endorphin is faster and more trail-oriented. Still totally rad, but different.
    2. The new chilcotin feels closer to the old endo than the new endo does.

    Can anybody with experience weigh in on this? I dont want to lug around more bike than I need with the chili, but I dont want to be under-biked for all the awesome slickrock where I live with the new endo.


    Thanks

  2. #2
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    Re: Replacing my dead Endorphin - do I get the New Endo or the New Chili?

    Both are a lot of fun, but I've only ridden them around here in CA. You should probably demo both.


    I enjoy the joke, hurkin or laverkn?

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hurkinite View Post
    My beloved endorphin passed away this morning - may she rest in peace. What am I going to ride now?

    I think the old endorphin may have been the perfect bike, but I have heard different things about the new endorphin.

    1. The new endorphin is faster and more trail-oriented. Still totally rad, but different.
    2. The new chilcotin feels closer to the old endo than the new endo does.

    Can anybody with experience weigh in on this? I dont want to lug around more bike than I need with the chili, but I dont want to be under-biked for all the awesome slickrock where I live with the new endo.


    Thanks
    Chilcotin. My medium raw Chili with RP23 was .5lbs lighter than my Gen1 white Endo with RP23. Not only is it lighter, but it pedals better, has a better seat-tube angle, is a better climber and descender. It's stiffer, has more travel, is beefy as hell and even more fun to ride.

    I also have a new Endo and it is quite different from the Chili or old Endo.
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  4. #4
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    eHigh, Laverkin is full of white trash. All the high class city folk like me live on the Hurkin side of the bridge. My neighbors are so fancy almost none of us keep more than 2 non-working vehicles on our property at any given time.

    I am demoing the Chili tomorrow. Hopefully, I will get some time on the endo too before I have to decide.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tiSS'er View Post
    Chilcotin.

    I also have a new Endo and it is quite different from the Chili or old Endo.
    Thanks tiSSer, that is exactly the kind of input I am looking for.

  6. #6
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    What kind of trails and what kind of riding?

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    Hurkinite, I ride down there a bunch and with both the Chilly and the new Endo ( as well as the old Endo). Obviously the new endo is perfect for the likes of gould's, gem, hurricane rim loop, prospector & churchrocks, the santa clara area and bear claw/poppy. Where there is a difference depends on how you chose to ride the goose and little creek. The new Endo can be great out there but it you are trying to follow Quinton, you are gonna want the chilly.
    Another factor is how you build it. Are you just swapping parts from old Endo on to new frame?
    Fortunately for you, you have a shop in town that has both to demo so enough talking, just go ride both and let us know what you decide is right for you!

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hurkinite View Post
    My beloved endorphin passed away this morning - may she rest in peace.


    Thanks
    so what was the cause of death? seriously
    breezy shade

  9. #9
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    This is a good read:

    Chili Endo comparison
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    Had a chance to demo the new chilcotin out at Little Creek Mesa on Saturday. It was definitely smoother over the chunk. You definitely ride down in the frame more than on the old endo as well. I'm not sure it pedalled quite as nicely as my old endo, but its hard to say for sure because I was fighting a cold.

    Haven't had a chance to demo the endo yet, but the chilcotin was definitely nice.

    nhodge, I was hesitant to write about the specifics of the failure because Knolly has been really good about doing a crash replacement of the frame for me. The frame weld separated at the junction of the seat tube and top tube. Thankfully, I wasn't doing anything stupid at the time so I was fine - just riding along and suddenly I had no seat.

  11. #11
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    havnt rode my endo yet so cant comment on wht its like,,, but one thing is for sure you can always rely on the guys at knolly to sort you out, there afterales is amazing.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiSS'er View Post
    Not only is it lighter, but it pedals better, has a better seat-tube angle, is a better climber and descender. It's stiffer, has more travel, is beefy as hell and even more fun to ride.
    This is what my riding buddy has been saying, too. He was debating keeping his 1st-gen Endo as a smaller bike for XC duties, but realized there was no point.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by evasive View Post
    This is what my riding buddy has been saying, too. He was debating keeping his 1st-gen Endo as a smaller bike for XC duties, but realized there was no point.
    Completely agree. The Chili is so much better than the original Endo....I almost feel guilty saying such a thing because of my love for the gen 1 Endo. But, Noel hit the Chili out of the park. It is better in everyway. I think what he did with the new Endo is perfect as well. It keeps the 2 bike separated.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pfarrell View Post
    Hurkinite, I ride down there a bunch and with both the Chilly and the new Endo ( as well as the old Endo). Obviously the new endo is perfect for the likes of gould's, gem, hurricane rim loop, prospector & churchrocks, the santa clara area and bear claw/poppy. Where there is a difference depends on how you chose to ride the goose and little creek. The new Endo can be great out there but it you are trying to follow Quinton, you are gonna want the chilly.
    Another factor is how you build it. Are you just swapping parts from old Endo on to new frame?
    Fortunately for you, you have a shop in town that has both to demo so enough talking, just go ride both and let us know what you decide is right for you!
    Good questions.

    I would always suggest to anyone who loves their gen 1 Endo to go Chili as the ride is going to be similar, but better. If he said he liked his Endo, but felt over-biked at times, or wants a more XC bike, then I would go toward the new Endo. I'm not sure I would be as happy replacing my old Endo with my new Endo as a one bike stable. I would prefer to have the Chili as a one bike if forced into that situation. Again, that is me and you guys know what we ride so it's not really debatable in my mind.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiSS'er View Post
    Good questions.

    I would always suggest to anyone who loves their gen 1 Endo to go Chili as the ride is going to be similar, but better. If he said he liked his Endo, but felt over-biked at times, or wants a more XC bike, then I would go toward the new Endo. I'm not sure I would be as happy replacing my old Endo with my new Endo as a one bike stable. I would prefer to have the Chili as a one bike if forced into that situation. Again, that is me and you guys know what we ride so it's not really debatable in my mind.
    tiSS'er nailed it.

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    Thanks for all the advice guys. I am beginning to think maybe this is like the Pepsi / Coke thing where you pour them side by side in a paper cup and 95% of people can't tell the difference. Is the same build on each frame going to be indistinguishable to the majority of riders? I'm not a connoisseur who has ridden 200 different frames, but I did LOVE my old endo - maybe to the point that it was unhealthy.

    I had the chance to ride the new endorphin last night out on the slickrock and this morning on some flowy singletrack.

    Some thoughts about the new endorphin next to my old endo:
    1. The endorphin is fast and pedals super easy on the smooth ups -- but isn't that what my 29er HT is for?
    2. The ride is harsher than either my old endo or the chili. I bottomed out 3 times on a 2 foot drop to flat this morning - something I'm not sure I could do on my old endo if I tried. Similar suspension at similar pressures.
    3. It is harder to move the back end up or around - I wear flats.
    4. It rails the corners like crazy.

    I have to get back to work, but I will come add more later.

  17. #17
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    Work! It's such a darn nuisance.

    If you have a 29er HT I'd definitely go with the chilcotin. It's going to be better on the chunk, tech, and gnarl than the endo and the 29er will be perfect for the Jem/Bearclaw Poppy/Santa Clara trails.

    I don't think my chili is bad on that smoother, buff, flowy stuff either.....but if I had a 29er HT I'd surely use that tool on that kind of trail.

    The only thing I'd want an endo for that I wouldn't want to do on a 29er HT is enduro racing......but then again the chili is a pretty good enduro mount too.
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hurkinite View Post
    Thanks for all the advice guys. I am beginning to think maybe this is like the Pepsi / Coke thing where you pour them side by side in a paper cup and 95% of people can't tell the difference. Is the same build on each frame going to be indistinguishable to the majority of riders? I'm not a connoisseur who has ridden 200 different frames, but I did LOVE my old endo - maybe to the point that it was unhealthy.

    I had the chance to ride the new endorphin last night out on the slickrock and this morning on some flowy singletrack.

    Some thoughts about the new endorphin next to my old endo:
    1. The endorphin is fast and pedals super easy on the smooth ups -- but isn't that what my 29er HT is for?
    2. The ride is harsher than either my old endo or the chili. I bottomed out 3 times on a 2 foot drop to flat this morning - something I'm not sure I could do on my old endo if I tried. Similar suspension at similar pressures.
    3. It is harder to move the back end up or around - I wear flats.
    4. It rails the corners like crazy.

    I have to get back to work, but I will come add more later.
    First, I totally agree with you on points 1 and 4. I assume you had the Fox CTD shock on the back. Points 2 and 3 were likely caused by underinflation of the shock. A local shop improved the CTD dramatically on my 2013 Endo by changing the internal spacer. That allowed me to run 25 less psi (from 180 to 155psi) for a smoother ride, and ramped up the spring rate nicely to prevent bottoming. I weigh 210.

    The Chili is a beast intended for the most demanding of technical challenges and substantial jumps and drops, the Endo is a race car that can handle challenging DH. However, it's not for big drops and large jumps.

    Last edited by Herzalot; 05-21-2013 at 08:44 PM.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by KRob View Post
    Work! It's such a darn nuisance.

    If you have a 29er HT I'd definitely go with the chilcotin. It's going to be better on the chunk, tech, and gnarl than the endo and the 29er will be perfect for the Jem/Bearclaw Poppy/Santa Clara trails.

    I don't think my chili is bad on that smoother, buff, flowy stuff either.....but if I had a 29er HT I'd surely use that tool on that kind of trail.

    The only thing I'd want an endo for that I wouldn't want to do on a 29er HT is enduro racing......but then again the chili is a pretty good enduro mount too.
    Krob is right. I've had the Chilly for a full season and I just got the Endo to replace my Yeti ASR5C. Your 29r HT would overlap too much with the Endo. I'm thinking for you build up a Chilly nice and light, say in the 32 + or - range and be done with it.

  20. #20
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    I disagree, but WTF do I know. A 29er HT and an Endo are completely different ride characteristics and capabilities. Building a light Chili defeats the purpose of the bike. A light Chili would mean a 34 fork, a CTD shock and light tires, wheels and crankset. Nope. Get a Chili if you go big, drop hard and live for the super-technical downs and chundery climbs. Get an Endo if you are like most trail-riders, but with a desire for a bike that rails the turns yet descends with confidence.

    ps: tiSSer and a few other Chili addicts ride ridiculously technical, rocky, slow, ledgy stuff. A burly Chili is the only way to go on that landscape.

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    Replacing my dead Endorphin - do I get the New Endo or the New Chili?

    Not necessarily. My buddy's built up under 32. Drivetrain (not visible) is XX1. Large frame with a CCDB-A, Lyrik RC2 DH, Flow EX and Hope wheels, and tubeless DHFs.

    That's lighter than his Endorphin with a Velvet and CTD, and Hadleys laced to Flows (and a 2x9 drivetrain).

    Duh- forgot to attach the pic.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Herzalot View Post
    I disagree, but WTF do I know. A 29er HT and an Endo are completely different ride characteristics and capabilities. Building a light Chili defeats the purpose of the bike. A light Chili would mean a 34 fork, a CTD shock and light tires, wheels and crankset. Nope. Get a Chili if you go big, drop hard and live for the super-technical downs and chundery climbs. Get an Endo if you are like most trail-riders, but with a desire for a bike that rails the turns yet descends with confidence.

    ps: tiSSer and a few other Chili addicts ride ridiculously technical, rocky, slow, ledgy stuff. A burly Chili is the only way to go on that landscape.
    I guess I should clarify...

    Endo and 29'r are in the same category. XC/Trail bikes. Yeah, the Endo is gonna handle burlier stuff but I would not own both an Endo and a 29'r HT unless I made the 29'r around 20 lbs. and dedicate it to races. But the stuff in NE is on the burly side so maybe with more gentle terrain someone could get could use out of both.

    First off, I would never think of putting a 34 on a Chilly. When I said lighter I meant stuff like going tubeless, Carbon cranks, 1x10, etc. I would consider my 32 to 33 lb. Chilly to be a lighter build but that includes CCDBA, VAN36, 2.4 HR2 Tires, Flow rims, dropper, etc. Something built up enough to hit chunk and lift access but light enough to still not kill yourself when Trail and AM riding. I would consider a burly build a 180 fork, coil, 2 ply tires, beefier rims, something weighing in around 35/36 lbs.

    Yeah, fully aware of what tiSSer rides. I was at Knoll-fest 2012

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by evasive View Post
    Not necessarily. My buddy's built up under 32. Drivetrain (not visible) is XX1. Large frame with a CCDB-A, Lyrik RC2 DH, Flow EX and Hope wheels, and tubeless DHFs.

    That's lighter than his Endorphin with a Velvet and CTD, and Hadleys laced to Flows (and a 2x9 drivetrain).

    Duh- forgot to attach the pic.
    Yep, I could easily get my Chili to 31.5lbs by just changing out my rear shock, and could sensibly get it to 30lbs if it were my only bike. As someone who has extensive time on all 3 bikes, I will say it again. If you like the suspension feel of your Gen1 Endo, get a Chili. The frame is burlier, lighter, stiffer, better pedaling, and the suspension works even better than the Gen1 Endo. The new Endo, though no slouch, has a very different feeling than the old Endo, and is distinctly different than the Chili.
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Herzalot View Post
    Building a light Chili defeats the purpose of the bike. A light Chili would mean a 34 fork, a CTD shock and light tires, wheels and crankset. Nope. Get a Chili if you go big, drop hard and live for the super-technical downs and chundery climbs. Get an Endo if you are like most trail-riders, but with a desire for a bike that rails the turns yet descends with confidence.

    ps: tiSSer and a few other Chili addicts ride ridiculously technical, rocky, slow, ledgy stuff. A burly Chili is the only way to go on that landscape.
    This isnt right. My Chili came in at under 31lbs (check the build thread) and i use it as a mini DH bike and a Trail bike. Im running Float 36s and an RP23 and DT Swiss 440 hubbed wheels with Big Betty tyres. When i switch out for a ccdb coil it will be just over 31lbs. I also use it for rocky climbs which are tough going for riders on any bike, and the Chili is great for it. My build would handle TiSSers terrain easily since i think our terrain in Scotland (especially my local Innerleithen) is just as harsh, maybe even worse as we've got the rocks and rain. Our terrian is hard packed with rocks underneath with thin layers of soil/clay ontop to create durable trails with good drainage. My Chili is plenty tough enough for all of it. The average endo comes in at 27lbs. Thats only a few lighter than my Chili. I couldnt use an Endo for everything i do on my Chili, but opposite is made feasibile (im doing it most days of the week) due to the climbing ability of the Chili. The only thing that makes my Chili slower than an Endo is those few pounds difference and the 2.4 sticky Big Betty tyres i use.

    I picked the Chili over the Endo as it is a more versatile bike. Im buying an Endo later in the year, ive planned the build already, owning the Chilli first and riding it on all sorts, i know i did things the right way round (i.e. which bike to buy first).

    If presented with the choice between the two, get a Chili, unless your trails are timid compared to moderate downhill tracks..

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    @evasive...Not sure how those weight comparisons are even possible. CCDB is 3/4 lbs heavier than CTD. Lyric is 3/4 to 1 lb heavier than Velvet. Wheels are a wash. Endo frame is 1 lb lighter than Chili. Front dérailleur, chainring, cable and shift lever maybe add a pound back. Can I assume a dropper post on each bike? All told, the Endo built as described should be 2-3 lbs lighter than the Chili in the picture, unless it's the old Endo.

    Strange.

    BTW, I am not disagreeing with tiSS'er. The Chili is more like the old Endo, but presumably better. He loves his Chili and rides gnarly stuff. I love my Endo and ride more moderate stuff. I found the Chili to be more cumbersome than my riding style and preferences required. Not a disagreement, different needs.

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    @Herzalot, the Endo could be built to 24-25lbs, the Chili to 29lbs, so for moderate stuff, sure, Endo is the best solution. These weights are a giveaway as to what the bikes were intended for. Im just pointing out that the Chili can handle alot of harsh stuff and still be built as light as many of the popular 150mm travel bikes in the 'middle ground' market.

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    A 25 pound Endo is pushing it, that's alot of money in the build to get it that light, probably more $$$ than most would spend. Most won't be built that light. And a 29lb Chili is practically unheard of, I think only 1 or 2 people have gotten it down that low. And at 29 pounds the reliability of the build for it's intended purpose is starting to waver. A 32 lb Chili is more along the lines of reality unless you build it with stupid light parts.

    I agree with what others have said, if you've only got one bike, make it a Chili. It's got the flexibility to slant either to the trail side or AM side depending on how you build it. But if you really don't need 6.5" inches of travel, the Endo might be more appropriate. For instance for my weekday rides, my Chili is complete and utter overkill. Like taking a shotgun to a butter knife fight. But when I hit the fun stuff on the weekends, my Chili is perfect.

    Either way, they are very different bikes. My Chili is almost 34 lbs, and my Endo will be built up WAY lighter and differently.
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  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Herzalot View Post
    @evasive...Not sure how those weight comparisons are even possible. CCDB is 3/4 lbs heavier than CTD. Lyric is 3/4 to 1 lb heavier than Velvet. Wheels are a wash. Endo frame is 1 lb lighter than Chili. Front dérailleur, chainring, cable and shift lever maybe add a pound back. Can I assume a dropper post on each bike? All told, the Endo built as described should be 2-3 lbs lighter than the Chili in the picture, unless it's the old Endo.

    Strange.
    Well, I didn't weigh it or see the scale myself, so I'm just repeating what he's told me on the trail and over beers. The wheelset is lighter, the drivetrain is lighter, and I'm guessing the frame is lighter, probably by a non-trivial margin. No dropper post on the Endorphin, but carbon bars on both. IIRC, he told me 31.6 lbs on the Chili and that it was "a pound and a half" lighter than the Endorphin.

    Edit - yes, my friend has the old Endorphin. That's what the OP was asking about.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rscecil007 View Post
    A 25 pound Endo is pushing it, that's alot of money in the build to get it that light, probably more $$$ than most would spend. Most won't be built that light. And a 29lb Chili is practically unheard of, I think only 1 or 2 people have gotten it down that low. And at 29 pounds the reliability of the build for it's intended purpose is starting to waver. A 32 lb Chili is more along the lines of reality unless you build it with stupid light parts.
    .
    I disagree, i think there are alot of tough and light parts (in Europe at least) to manage both of those targets and it doesnt need to cost the world. To clarify what i meant...they can be built that light and be tough enough, but its the difference between them was the point i was making.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cfrench View Post
    I disagree, i think there are alot of tough and light parts (in Europe at least) to manage both of those targets and it doesnt need to cost the world. To clarify what i meant...they can be built that light and be tough enough, but its the difference between them was the point i was making.
    Yep, my chilly is sub 30 w/ enve am, Marz 55, DB air, aluminum bars and cranks,magura mt6, 1x10 with mrp guide and no dropper. I don't find any of my parts "too light" but of course if I wanna ride a heavier bike I go to my 36 lb delirium.
    My Endo is at 25 and for what is worth out of curiosity, I transferred my Endo build onto my chilly with a fox 34 and had a 26.5 lb chilly. Never rode it in that mode since I have an Endo b

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by pfarrell View Post
    Yep, my chilly is sub 30 w/ enve am, Marz 55, DB air, aluminum bars and cranks,magura mt6, 1x10 with mrp guide and no dropper.
    Well the dropper really helps keep it light, but wow, I'd have to go look at your build if you got it under 30. Did you fill the tubes with helium? haha
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  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by pfarrell View Post
    Yep, my chilly is sub 30 w/ enve am, Marz 55, DB air, aluminum bars and cranks,magura mt6, 1x10 with mrp guide and no dropper. I don't find any of my parts "too light" but of course if I wanna ride a heavier bike I go to my 36 lb delirium.
    My Endo is at 25 and for what is worth out of curiosity, I transferred my Endo build onto my chilly with a fox 34 and had a 26.5 lb chilly. Never rode it in that mode since I have an Endo b
    I choked on my food there when i saw 26.5 lb chili

    Below is the build ive been considering, it would produce a 24.9lb endo. Nothing is that dainty it wouldnt be strong enough for hucking, far from it:

    Knolly Endorphin Medium with CCDB Air
    Chris King headset
    BOS Deville 140 AM forks
    Thomson Elite X4 70mm
    Enve AM Carbon 740mm
    Renthal Medium Grips
    500g brakes
    Thomson Elite seatpost
    Chromag Q/R
    Chromag Moon Ti Rails
    Hope Stainless BB
    XX1 crank
    XX1 shifter
    XX1 cassette
    XX1 rear mech
    KMC X11-SL Titanium Nitride Gold 11 Speed chain
    Superstar Ultra Mag CNC Gold Ti Axle pedals
    I9 Torch 32 wheels
    Tubeless Tyres, Fr: 2.3 HR II 3C, Rr: 2.35 Larsen Single Fold

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    So I have spent a lot of time on both the old endo and the knolly DT. Which would you compare the chili to? My old endo does not hold me back on many types of terrain and is killer for the super d's and enduros. If I move to a new frame next year I am afraid they are both moving in the wrong direction that I would want in an enduro bike...ie the new endo will not be burly enough, and the chili will not be snappy/climb enough.

    If my head angle was 1-1.5 more degree slack I think I could confidently call it the perfect bike (for me and what I ride)

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaXCarp View Post
    So I have spent a lot of time on both the old endo and the knolly DT. Which would you compare the chili to? My old endo does not hold me back on many types of terrain and is killer for the super d's and enduros. If I move to a new frame next year I am afraid they are both moving in the wrong direction that I would want in an enduro bike...ie the new endo will not be burly enough, and the chili will not be snappy/climb enough.

    If my head angle was 1-1.5 more degree slack I think I could confidently call it the perfect bike (for me and what I ride)
    I've owned/own both the older DT and Endo and now the new Endo and Chilly and here is how it plays out in my book.

    1st off to me the old Endo is not the perfect Enduro race bike. While it is a burly, stiff bike, with good geo and just about the right amount of travel it doesn't pedal as well as the newer line of Enduro bikes out there. The old endo will be better on chunky stuff but the newer endo corners faster and is much snappier over all.

    The Chilly is like an old Endo with more travel, updated geo (slacker/lower & ride is balanced in the middle), stiffer, about the same weight, has updated bits (thru-axle, ISCG, 1.5HT), and burlier. I'd say it pedals slightly better than the old Endo. While this is great news I wouldn't want to race the thing if there was any significant climbing or peddly stuff. Much like the old Endo it can bog down when you put the hammer down. The Chilly makes a great AM/light Freeride/Park bike (berms and tables) and is a decent enough peddler to ride all the time as long as your not trying to keep up with folks on trail bikes.

    The new Endo is a good bit lighter and peddles a TON better than the old Endo. When you put the foot on the gas it goes! For what the bike is it's very stiff but maybe not as stiff as the old Endo. Hard to say. Turning it downhill it feels just as solid as the old Endo, but with the lower bottom bracket and snappier suspension there is some compromise. If the trail turns too chunky you do feel it more and you really have to pick your lines. You may be able to fix some of that with a 36 or PIKE upfront and a CCDBA in the back. I have a REV150 and CTD. It's a solid combo but it does show its limits when trail gets chundery.

    Hope that helps...

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hurkinite View Post
    My beloved endorphin passed away this morning - may she rest in peace. What am I going to ride now?

    I think the old endorphin may have been the perfect bike, but I have heard different things about the new endorphin.

    1. The new endorphin is faster and more trail-oriented. Still totally rad, but different.
    2. The new chilcotin feels closer to the old endo than the new endo does.

    Can anybody with experience weigh in on this? I dont want to lug around more bike than I need with the chili, but I dont want to be under-biked for all the awesome slickrock where I live with the new endo.


    Thanks
    I'm currently riding the new endo and have owned the old one as well. Based on what you've said, I would get the Chili if I were you. The Chili is lighter than the old endo and you can also build it up so you don't feel under-biked.

    I think there is truth to what everyone has been saying about the Chili and Endo. But you have to also take into account everyone's personal preferences and riding style even when living in the same local and riding the same trails. In other words, two people could be riding the same trails and one would prefer an Endo while the other would prefer a Chili.

    FWIW, I was in the same dilemma as you a few months ago. I loved my old endo but wanted a better pedaler and lighter ride. It was a tough decision but I decided on the Endo. I got rid of my Fox CTD after one ride and threw on a CCDBair and it's awesome. Never bottoms out harshly, great mid-stroke, and takes the fast chunder just as well as the old endo. The performance gain far outweighs and weigh penalty. And you can still set it up to pedal well and have the snappy feel without all the drawbacks.

    Good luck deciding. Knolly's are amazing bikes, and I don't think you can lose either way!

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaXCarp View Post
    So I have spent a lot of time on both the old endo and the knolly DT. Which would you compare the chili to? My old endo does not hold me back on many types of terrain and is killer for the super d's and enduros. If I move to a new frame next year I am afraid they are both moving in the wrong direction that I would want in an enduro bike...ie the new endo will not be burly enough, and the chili will not be snappy/climb enough.

    If my head angle was 1-1.5 more degree slack I think I could confidently call it the perfect bike (for me and what I ride)
    I don't have a lot of time on the old Endo but I think woodyak is right on with his assessement. The Chili is very nearly as snappy as the old Endo (maybe more so), has better geometry, is about the same weight, but is able to span the gap into Delirium territory pretty well too. Pretty amazing bike.

    I'm coming off a DT also and would say that the Chili "feels" more like my 5 Spot than my DT most of the time... but is able to go into the DH/FR relm more competently. Doesn't feel as forgiving, stiff, and bombproof as the DT (few things do) because it's so much lighter.... but by all accounts it is.

    Having said that... I think the new Endo would be a better enduro mount than the old endo (or Chili). Ligther, snappier, faster, more flickable, but able to handle anything most enduro races will throw at you in the way of tech/gnar.

    If you're looking for one bike though to span the gap from trail to enduro to more gnarly tech and DH, the Chilcotin is your bike.
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  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaXCarp View Post
    So I have spent a lot of time on both the old endo and the knolly DT. Which would you compare the chili to? My old endo does not hold me back on many types of terrain and is killer for the super d's and enduros. If I move to a new frame next year I am afraid they are both moving in the wrong direction that I would want in an enduro bike...ie the new endo will not be burly enough, and the chili will not be snappy/climb enough.

    If my head angle was 1-1.5 more degree slack I think I could confidently call it the perfect bike (for me and what I ride)
    The new Endo is worlds stronger than the previous Endo, so I wouldn't worry about that. If looking for an Enduro bike, the Endo is the ticket, in fact it might just be the perfect Enduro bike. It is very snappy and quick, light, stiff, and only gets better the faster you go. The Chili is probably a bit sluggish as a race bike, but I could see it rocking the more techy tracks.
    Employed by Pivot Cycles - www.pivotcycles.com

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiSS'er View Post
    The Chili is probably a bit sluggish as a race bike, but I could see it rocking the more techy tracks.
    It is, but im starting to learn a bit about how to overcome this via riding style. Its early days though as ive only had it 8 weeks.

    In mellower terrain, i've found that when im active on the bike and charge hard (or try, the seasons still early ) I find the Chili to lose most of its sluggishness, and can get suprisingly responsive, but you have to work with the bike.

    On rougher terrain, its a like a DH bike, soaks up whatever you want to throw at it, very plush, even with an RP23, and is capable of being much faster than i am. Its very forgiving.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cfrench View Post
    It is, but im starting to learn a bit about how to overcome this via riding style. Its early days though as ive only had it 8 weeks.

    In mellower terrain, i've found that when im active on the bike and charge hard (or try, the seasons still early ) I find the Chili to lose most of its sluggishness, and can get suprisingly responsive, but you have to work with the bike.

    On rougher terrain, its a like a DH bike, soaks up whatever you want to throw at it, very plush, even with an RP23, and is capable of being much faster than i am. Its very forgiving.
    I've given just about all the Cat1 dirt roadies in Austin fits on my 36# Delirium. They key in this is upper body use, pulling the handlebars toward your navel forcefully with each hard crank effort, particularly when starting a sprint. Not essential once you're moving, but it is getting going. Just a few seconds of red line to keep a gap from opening and they can't escape. After a couple hours you will be more tired on the heavier bike.
    Nice KOM, sorry about your penis.

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    Thanks for all the input. I placed my order for the new chilcotin with the cane creek shock tonight. Part of me is stoked and part of me is wondering if I am going to regret getting that much bike to pedal around. I would have the same mixed feelings if I had ordered the endo though too.

    I guess I will learn to love it and if I dont, somebody will get a killer deal.

    What 160mm forks would you guys recommend for a lightish build? Not weight weenie stuff, but I dont need to lug around a 160/180 adjustable either.

    Would you consider 34 stanchions or is 36 the only way to go?

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    Congrats. You did the right thing getting the CC shock. Take time to dial it in. Get forks with a tapered steerer (for stiffness), lightest and best are Bos Deville 160mm or Fox Float 36 160mm. Heavier but with good damping is the AVA'd Lyrik. Ive got 36 Floats which have been great but im upgrading them for Marz 55 RC3 Ti's later which are 170, the extra 10mm length on the forks wont change the way the bike rides at all, so i came to the conclusion "why not".
    Dont put Fox 34s on it or 150mm forks, you'll kill the party.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hurkinite View Post
    Thanks for all the input. I placed my order for the new chilcotin with the cane creek shock tonight. Part of me is stoked and part of me is wondering if I am going to regret getting that much bike to pedal around. I would have the same mixed feelings if I had ordered the endo though too.

    I guess I will learn to love it and if I dont, somebody will get a killer deal.

    What 160mm forks would you guys recommend for a lightish build? Not weight weenie stuff, but I dont need to lug around a 160/180 adjustable either.

    Would you consider 34 stanchions or is 36 the only way to go?
    Build it how YOU want it. Don't listen to the rest of us. I think the the fox 34 looks of and the new pike has me really interested. I would love to see someone build a chilly with either. 160mm travel is 160 no matter how light it is. to many people go nuts if you don't have a 20 mm axle but i just looked though all the bike at that last enduro race and regardless of wheel size, I could not find on pro racing anything but a 15mm axle. good luck with the build, you wont regret it no matter how ya build it. cheers

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by pfarrell View Post
    Build it how YOU want it. Don't listen to the rest of us. I think the the fox 34 looks of and the new pike has me really interested. I would love to see someone build a chilly with either. 160mm travel is 160 no matter how light it is. to many people go nuts if you don't have a 20 mm axle but i just looked though all the bike at that last enduro race and regardless of wheel size, I could not find on pro racing anything but a 15mm axle. good luck with the build, you wont regret it no matter how ya build it. cheers
    IMO it is not the stanchion or axle size that is the deal breaker. I've ridden a few of the 34s and the CTD dampener is sh!t compared to the RC2. The Bos is a 34mm fork but at least it has the right adjustments.
    Only two infinite things exist: the universe and stupidity. And, I am unsure of the universe
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  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hurkinite View Post
    Thanks for all the input. I placed my order for the new chilcotin with the cane creek shock tonight. Part of me is stoked and part of me is wondering if I am going to regret getting that much bike to pedal around. I would have the same mixed feelings if I had ordered the endo though too.

    I guess I will learn to love it and if I dont, somebody will get a killer deal.

    What 160mm forks would you guys recommend for a lightish build? Not weight weenie stuff, but I dont need to lug around a 160/180 adjustable either.

    Would you consider 34 stanchions or is 36 the only way to go?
    I just mounted an X-Fusion Slant (160/130 RL2 DLA) to my Endo. 34 mm stanchions. I will let you know my opinion of the damper after riding this weekend. I sent my 2012 Marz 55 Microswitch TA back to Marz for service.

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