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  1. #1
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    Really fast rebound on new Endorphin

    Just built up my new endorphin. I've got 2 rides on it so far. Really love the way it rides on the trails. Tried to take it off some smaller doubles this evening and it bucks bad. I turned the rebound all the way slow and it's still faster than I would normally run any of my bikes. I took all the air out of the shock and filled it back up, didn't seem to change anything.

    It's a Fox CTD with a L rebound tune, L velocity tune and Boost valve of 200. I'm running it at 200 psi which gives me about 25% sag. I've been running it in D mode and on the softest setting. Switching between C,T and D doesn't seem to have much effect on rebound speed (probably shouldn't). I also tried it at around 100 psi because I was wondering if I am maybe too heavy for the shock and even at lower psi the rebound still feels way faster than it should when set to all the way slow.

    Has anyone else run into this or have any ideas? Is that the correct Fox shock for this bike?

  2. #2
    Yebo Numzaan
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    Bummer...seen quite a few posts about people struggling with their CTD's and experienced it myself. I sent my CTD back to Fox after a couple rides and got a warranty service which failed to resolve the issue and then got a replacement shock. Still not convinced, but I need more time playing with the volume spacers. I find that my rebound dial has no effect until the very last few clicks. I think there are 16 clicks in total and it seems I only notice a difference in the final 4 - 5 clicks from full close (slow). Make sure you are getting all 16 clicks...200 psi sounds like a lot...how much do you weigh. I have 140psi and weight 185. Adios.
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  3. #3
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    I weigh around 220. Just checked and I'm getting 14 clicks of rebound. There isn't a huge difference between all the way fast and all the way slow.

  4. #4
    Yebo Numzaan
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    You should have about 170psi in the can to get about .56 inch or 14mm of sag on the shaft. Remember this is not measured when sitting on the saddle..but when standing on the pedals with weight evenly distributed on the pedals / bars. If you are nowhere near that number....I would guess you have a problem shock. Don't hesitate to contact fox for a warranty
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  5. #5
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    Mutton, do you run your suspension a bit stiffer? 14mm of sag is about 25%, and 17mm is around 30%.

    I'm not totally stoked on my CTD either. Descend is a joke, it blows through 80% of the travel if I run over a pebble. So far the best compromise I've found is Trail 2. I like the plushness of Trail 1, but doesn't seem to quite have enough midstroke support. Trail 2 seems to fix the midstroke issue, but at the cost of a bit of plushness. So far I can find a setting that mates up with with the performance of my new Pike.

    I'm about ready to send this thing off to PUSH, or look for a used RP23 and send in. Not sure if one has an advantage over the other if Pushed, I need to call them and check on that...
    If jackasses could fly this place would be an airport.

  6. #6
    Yebo Numzaan
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    bru, I am all over the place...don't ask me what I have. 25% is the starting point I would say - as per the K website.

    I am still experimenting since breaking my finger shortly after 1) getting my RP23 (originally off the chilly) back from Push and 2) getting a replacement CTD. I now have a small / M / Large volume spacer and can change them out and I intend experiment.

    I sent the RP23 to PUSH because I was actually enjoying it on the Endo before I blew it up (two / three good rides after replacing the CTD with the RP23 and I blew the seals). It came back from PUSH with the L volume spacer and I got a couple rides in. It never really felt good...for starters, I had the sag at around 25% when standing on the pedals...but then on steep climbs (@27 for e.g.) I felt like I had way too much sag...when seated on a steep incline. The RP23 felt pretty harsh with the PUSH tune and I actually removed the L spacer and inserted a M hoping I could up the air pressure a tad and reach a compromise.

    I haven't really ridden the CTD hard yet...I think it has a small Spacer in it currently. Doing an epic tomorrow...need to get some more experimentation in this evening.

    When are we going to ride...or you are you riding some secret trails?
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  7. #7
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    What spacer does the CTD on the Endo come with stock, anyone know?

    No secret trails man, just staying up on the north end mainly since it's easier for me to get to. I need to start getting down your way more though. Finger back to normal and good to go?
    If jackasses could fly this place would be an airport.

  8. #8
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    It sounds like Knolly is going to take care of me. Great bikes and a great company to deal with.

  9. #9
    Knomer
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    Quote Originally Posted by rscecil007 View Post
    What spacer does the CTD on the Endo come with stock, anyone know?

    No secret trails man, just staying up on the north end mainly since it's easier for me to get to. I need to start getting down your way more though. Finger back to normal and good to go?
    Global Director of Sales: Knolly Bikes

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by dfinn View Post
    It sounds like Knolly is going to take care of me. Great bikes and a great company to deal with.
    Great to hear...
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  11. #11
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    tiSSer had this thread about fox air shocks that had some info from avalanche.
    Anyone have a DHX AIR sor sale?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by dfinn View Post
    It sounds like Knolly is going to take care of me. Great bikes and a great company to deal with.
    yep noel and kev are fantastic to deal with, and will sort you out forsure,,,,


    i have to say, though i only got a few rides on my endo, ( 2 to be exact) before my back injury, i notcied that my ctd seems to blow its travel quite easily,,, even when riding the valley trail, ( the tarmac one that runs through and all round whistler) the rubber o ring would be right at the bottom of the shock, when i did lower danimal the o ring was off the shaft, i doubble checked the pressure, and do have the correct pressure for my weight,,,
    to be honest i was expecting this to happen from the fox shock, as i had the same experiance with the dhx air 5 that came on the delirium t, i think i may try a differant shock, what would be peoples recomendations, the new ccdb air cs, or maybe bos void or kirk,

  13. #13
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    I've had pretty good luck with the CTD. I weigh about 175-180 and I running about 140 PSI. I have the rebound set right about in the middle, I think one click towards slow from middle. I am running 30% sag. I am running it in "T1" 95% of the time.

    While the CTD isn't the best shock I have ever felt, it feels decent on the Endo. I don't have any major complaints, but sometimes it leaves me wondering what a custom tuned shock would feel like. I notice little changes in PSI make a big difference. Right now I feel I have it pretty dialed. I blow the o-ring off every once in a while but don't notice any harsh bottom out. While climbing the Endo/CTD feel awesome.

    I would play with the CTD before sinking money into a new shock. Definitely give it a bit of time. If I were looking else where, I would look at the Monarch Plus or a Push tune. Maybe CC will come out with a lighter weight XC/trail shock in the near future.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by delirian View Post
    yep noel and kev are fantastic to deal with, and will sort you out forsure,,,,


    i have to say, though i only got a few rides on my endo, ( 2 to be exact) before my back injury, i notcied that my ctd seems to blow its travel quite easily,,, even when riding the valley trail, ( the tarmac one that runs through and all round whistler) the rubber o ring would be right at the bottom of the shock, when i did lower danimal the o ring was off the shaft, i doubble checked the pressure, and do have the correct pressure for my weight,,,
    to be honest i was expecting this to happen from the fox shock, as i had the same experiance with the dhx air 5 that came on the delirium t, i think i may try a differant shock, what would be peoples recomendations, the new ccdb air cs, or maybe bos void or kirk,
    heres where upto with it all:

    the 'boostvalve' is at the core of all problems, ask tftuned. ill never put another pathetic fox shock on a knolly again, they dont pair well, i think knolly should switch to working with other manufacturers besides fox.

    'ccdb air cs' is where its at when it comes to air...its been proven to make technical climbing significantly better on knollys and these bikes are already great at technical climbing. the standard can and the firm climb switch tune is the one to get.

    bos the kirk is unproven but its going to be a fantastic shock...it cant possibly make a chili or endo climb better than the ccdb air cs due to its configuration, but im going to stick my neck out and make the prediction that the kirk by bos will be marginally better than the cane creek on the downhill..

    the one to beat them both, marginally, will be the ccdb coil with cs, but im not sure we'll see it this side of christmas.

  15. #15
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    Regarding air pressure, I've got a couple more rides in on the bike and I really feel like 200 psi is right for my weight (220 w/o gear). I've been riding the CTD in T2 mode and it feels pretty good. For normal trail riding (no huge hits or drops) I'm getting just about full travel but not quite pushing the o-ring off the shock. I think I also read somewhere on here were quite a few people were running higher air pressure than what the knolly site suggests.

    I think the shock will feel pretty good once I get one with a more usable rebound range but I may give the CCDBA a try as well.

  16. #16
    Yebo Numzaan
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    Kevin, Cavan and Noel FTW.
    I support EMBA

  17. #17
    Knomer
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    What's FTW? "For the win"?


    Quote Originally Posted by Muttonchops View Post
    Kevin, Cavan and Noel FTW.
    Global Director of Sales: Knolly Bikes

  18. #18
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    or F the world... ;-)

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dusty Bottoms View Post
    What's FTW? "For the win"?

    Here's one that will stump you....FTMFW.
    If jackasses could fly this place would be an airport.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by rscecil007 View Post
    Here's one that will stump you....FTMFW.
    F the mother f world

  21. #21
    Five5hot
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    Quote Originally Posted by rscecil007 View Post
    Here's one that will stump you....FTMFW.
    For The Mother ****ing Win. I had to ask my friend google what it was.

  22. #22
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    I started with the CTD on my 2013 Endo, and felt it was either too stiff at 185psi, or too soft at 180. I couldn't find middle ground. I had my LBS work on it a little and he made it better (but wouldn't tell me what he did - and did not charge me). It was indeed better and I could roll back the air to 160psi w/o blowing the o-ring off.

    I was then tempted by the offer of a custom built Marzocchi Roco TST air. I tried that for 3 months, and thought it was great on the downs, but it had no platform for pedaling, just a lock-out switch.

    In the middle of a weekend, I put the Fox CTD back on the Endo and rode the same trails as the day before. WOW! I didn't realize just how dead the Marzocchi made the Endo. It sprung back to life and was the playful and fun machine I initially fell in love with. I weigh 210 unkitted, and now run the CTD at about 167psi. Yes, it uses most of its travel on moderate terrain, but it feels really good. It's almost as plush as the Marz on the downs. I use position 2 on the trail mode for climbing and flats, and use D for D. I do small jumps, high speed rock gardens and up to 3' drops and don't blow the o-ring off.

    I have no idea what size spacer is in the shock, but I'll bet it's bigger than the one it came with. I am sure the CCDBair is better, but I'm pretty pleased with my CTD on my Endo. Oh, I run 8 clicks of rebound and do not get bucked even though there's a couple of places on my usual rides that have a tendency to buck bikes.
    Last edited by Herzalot; 07-21-2013 at 06:01 AM.

  23. #23
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    sorry to highjack your thread,,,,,,

    what would be peoples choice of shock as a replacement for the 2013 endo,,,,
    im thinking along the lines of ccdb air cs,,, or bos vipr 2 , or bos kirk,
    the vipr 2 is only about 30 grams heavier than the float ctd, the kirk is quite a bit heavier at arround 160g.. not sure what the ccdb air cs weighs as i havnt looked yet,

  24. #24
    formerly shabadu
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    Delirian, consider spending $25 on the volume spacer kit for the ctd before buying a new shock. I replaced the included volume spacer (the smallest offered in the kit) and went 2 sizes up to the mid sized spacer(there are 5 in the kit). I'm no longer blowing through travel, bike feels very responsive and playful. I spend most of my time in T1, but make use of C on extended, smoother climbs, and D when it gets loose and slippy.

  25. #25
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    FWIW, I called PUSH Friday and asked about the CTD vs RP23 in terms of if one was preferable to tune or had more advantages than the other. The guy I spoke with, Nick I believe, said there's no difference, and if anything he thought the chassis on the CTD was a bit more robust than the RP23.
    If jackasses could fly this place would be an airport.

  26. #26
    Pivoteer
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    Quote Originally Posted by G-AIR View Post
    I've had pretty good luck with the CTD. I weigh about 175-180 and I running about 140 PSI. I have the rebound set right about in the middle, I think one click towards slow from middle. I am running 30% sag. I am running it in "T1" 95% of the time.

    While the CTD isn't the best shock I have ever felt, it feels decent on the Endo. I don't have any major complaints, but sometimes it leaves me wondering what a custom tuned shock would feel like. I notice little changes in PSI make a big difference. Right now I feel I have it pretty dialed. I blow the o-ring off every once in a while but don't notice any harsh bottom out. While climbing the Endo/CTD feel awesome.

    I would play with the CTD before sinking money into a new shock. Definitely give it a bit of time. If I were looking else where, I would look at the Monarch Plus or a Push tune. Maybe CC will come out with a lighter weight XC/trail shock in the near future.
    Agreed. I run the CTD in the Descend mode 100% of the time. It climbs well, and descends well. And like all Knolly's the bike just gets better the faster you go. I still think the CTD lacks any real dampening, but it is sufficient for what I am using the bike for. I would still like to have a run at an Avalanche modded DHX Air. A CCDB air would be another great choice, the only problem is that my Endo is gaining weight, and I am trying to keep it as light as possible.
    Employed by Pivot Cycles - www.pivotcycles.com

  27. #27
    Yebo Numzaan
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    I had a pretty rad rip on the Endo powered by a pushed RP23 this weekend. Good solid 8 miles and 3K+ feet of descent. Tons of high speed PNW roots etc (pretty scary for a first ride back after 6 weeks out. gulp)...The climb was pretty gnarly with a 36T chain ring...but I flipped the RP23 into 'locked' and it felt pretty good. (thanks to all the boring hrs sitting on the trainer with a broken finger. sux...but pays off)

    I have finally gotten the air pressure correct. I threw the L volume spacer back in and got about 30% sag at 125 - 128 psi. The spec sheet from push had my suggest pressure at 160 which kind of threw me off for a couple rides as I worked my way down from what was suggested. Its pretty funny...its like looking at the bathroom scale and seeing 183lbs but rounding it down to 180....its the same setting sag. I feel everyone has this inherent desire to run less sag (and be more efficient pedaling) but not accept reality which is that the bike is going to perform and feel better with a little more sag. Once I realized the Push mechanic had been smoking dooby I set my sag 'again' with a clear mind and dropped it from 140 to 125. Everything felt so much better.

    Thanks to Ryan last week who asked me if I was running my Endo 'firm' at 25% sag...that also got me thinking.

    After the ride the rubber O ring was amazingly still hanging on by the proverbial 'ball hair'...which just goes to show the effect of decreasing the air volume using the spacers and how significantly this affects the shock performance. Perfect.

    now...I think I need to throw some heavier oil into the damper of the Revelation as per tiSS'er's advice.

    Threw the M spacer into the CTD (which has a smaller can to start with)...so that will be something I will try again sometime.

    oh yes...I was so poked after 1 lap I couldn't do any more and offered to shuttle my buddy for a lap on a different trail. Sitting at the top passing time / drinking a beer I bumped into 'blcman' who spotted the endo from a mile away and came over for a chat. Always good to bump into someone from the family.
    I support EMBA

  28. #28
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    I've been pretty happy with my PUSHed CTD. It kinda sucked stock, I could blow through my travel way too easily (170 psi, 215 lbs rider weight) and bumping up the spacer size was a factor. I have a DB Air on my Prime that I might try out as it is the same dimension but currently I don't see a need, plus I'd have to buy some new hardware...

  29. #29
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    Recent update: I ended up getting my shock tuned by Suspension Werx in Vancouver. Super friendly guys and they really seem to know their stuff.

    They changed the shock to have a M rebound tune, M compression tune and added 25 PSI to the boost valve. The bike feels pretty damn close to perfect now. I now have a usable rebound range and I'm not blowing through the travel. So much happier now. Their theory was that at my weight (220 lbs w/o gear) the stock tune wasn't ever going to work very well.

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