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  1. #1
    Arrrgggghhh!!
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    OMG I cracked my Endorphin!

    No biggie.

    Since It seems there has been very little occasion for folks on this board to test the Knolly warranty out I figured I'd give a little feedback that probably reinforces what we all assume.

    I've had my endo for just over a year, took it in to Redsone Cyclery to get an annual expert tune and Dave had some bad news. A year ago I had brought in my Azonic frame and he found a crack, the perfect excuse for a Knolly upgrade. He found another this time around near the drive side chain stay. Just developing, but definitely a crack.

    Dave sends me a photo, I forward that to Larry at Mountain High on Friday. New part in the mail to me Monday, arrived a week later. I'm going up to Larry's shop later this week for a swap out. Riding days missed = 0; turn around time = 7 biz days. This went as perfectly as I could imagine. I probably could have gotten the part faster but since I'm still riding and I didn't have any knarly tech on the menu I didn't bother to ask.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails OMG I cracked my Endorphin!-p1011462.jpg  

    OMG I cracked my Endorphin!-p1011463.jpg  

    Give 'da people 'da air.

  2. #2
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    Nice turnaround. Hope you came in with a cold 6-pack of good stuff when you picked up the bike.

    I have busted 3 frames in my life, none was a quick turn (but the last one was the reason to switch to an endo.)
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  3. #3
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    Thanks for sharing. I will be keeping an eye on mine since I can break anything. Good to hear you had a good experience and no down time.

    That response is about as good as any I have had from Turner (known for their excellent CS and it is).

    My biggest concern with my Endo is the seat tube/top tube junction. It just seems like a gusset should be there.
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  4. #4
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    Wow! With a crack like that you're lucky you didn't get hurt
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiSS'er
    My biggest concern with my Endo is the seat tube/top tube junction. It just seems like a gusset should be there.
    I always had the same feeling about this but it does'nt seem to be a problem until now?

  6. #6
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    For any comments worrying about their Endo, please keep in mind that I'm a big guy (230 in my b-day suit), I ride hard, and I've cracked almost every frame I've owned. I don't think that this is a knock on the quality of the Endo, more of a praise for the customer service.

    This is my do it all bike and might be on the newer DT if it existed a year ago as the older DT was just a bit too burly for me to use as a one bike, so the Endo fit my needs better at the time (not that I have any regrets).

    (BTW the crack is much bigger on the chainring side but it didn't lend itself well to photography)
    Give 'da people 'da air.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by austin_bike
    Nice turnaround. Hope you came in with a cold 6-pack of good stuff when you picked up the bike.

    I have busted 3 frames in my life, none was a quick turn (but the last one was the reason to switch to an endo.)
    Yes, because all bike shop employees are drinkers.

    I asked a shop once, and he said he DETESTS when people come around with packs of beer, and how sometimes he has to stack them up because people keep bringing them, and how he feels insulted that first, they think he can be paid/bought with alcohol, that he is an alcoholic, and that he does his work for free, and just wants beer.

    I hope bike shops start dropping the hammer on idiots that think everyone in a bike shop is a drunk and can be bought off with beer.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by glitz
    Yes, because all bike shop employees are drinkers.

    I asked a shop once, and he said he DETESTS when people come around with packs of beer, and how sometimes he has to stack them up because people keep bringing them, and how he feels insulted that first, they think he can be paid/bought with alcohol, that he is an alcoholic, and that he does his work for free, and just wants beer.

    I hope bike shops start dropping the hammer on idiots that think everyone in a bike shop is a drunk and can be bought off with beer.
    As opposed to swinging a hammer at idiots who think that was all worth typing out.

  9. #9
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    ...and since I read these things from the bottom up...Knolly might benefit from seeing those photos, but in their email inbox, not here.

  10. #10
    Is that Bill rated?
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    Oh come on. It's not the beer, it's the 'I brought you something that I would be perfectly happy to keep for myself' attitude that comes along with it. People show up with a coffee for me (I hate coffee) and it is still appreciated because of the gesture. Nothing that anyone has ever brought into a shop that I was in was 'payment' it was 'appreciation.' Sounds to me like that shop tech was a little over sensitive and misconstruing polite behaviour. I wonder if he gets angry when people say thank you.
    Well, it was a good try.

  11. #11
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    No, probably not, but he probably gets pissed when he wants to earn money for his work and people keep trying to pass off beers for it.

    Maybe he was also a recovering alcoholic? That's a far reach from "oversensitive" behavior.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by glitz
    Yes, because all bike shop employees are drinkers.

    I asked a shop once, and he said he DETESTS when people come around with packs of beer, and how sometimes he has to stack them up because people keep bringing them, and how he feels insulted that first, they think he can be paid/bought with alcohol, that he is an alcoholic, and that he does his work for free, and just wants beer.

    I hope bike shops start dropping the hammer on idiots that think everyone in a bike shop is a drunk and can be bought off with beer.
    So you found the one tard that is offended by beer.

    Keep bringing beer, kids. It is almost always appreciated. It doesn't end there. Hook up the right crew at Whistler and you will get VIP service for life.
    Only two infinite things exist: the universe and stupidity. And, I am unsure of the universe
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrwhlr
    ...and since I read these things from the bottom up...Knolly might benefit from seeing those photos, but in their email inbox, not here.
    I disagree. Should I sweep it under the rug? The frame cracked, that's a fact. Nothing is perfect all the time and the company's response is what I deem as important. I give Knolly a AAA rating. I've seen many posts where people were concerned about buying a Knolly because it doesn't have a lifetime warranty and so few CS data points to measure the company against. I'm providing a data point, and a good one at that.

    Does anyone think that the Endo is a bad design and something you need to baby for fear of breaking the frame? I don't, and I cracked one. I plan to ride it just as hard in the future and won't worry a bit.
    Give 'da people 'da air.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBOC
    I disagree. Should I sweep it under the rug? The frame cracked, that's a fact. Nothing is perfect all the time and the company's response is what I deem as important. I give Knolly a AAA rating. I've seen many posts where people were concerned about buying a Knolly because it doesn't have a lifetime warranty and so few CS data points to measure the company against. I'm providing a data point, and a good one at that.

    Does anyone think that the Endo is a bad design and something you need to baby for fear of breaking the frame? I don't, and I cracked one. I plan to ride it just as hard in the future and won't worry a bit.
    Well I disagree with the notion that failing to post photographs of one's cracked, or broken, frame online qualifies as sweeping it under the rug.

  15. #15
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    I considered not posting anything, but ultimately I figured this was a positive post. If Knolly wants me to pull the pictures, or even the thread, I'd be happy to. I know they monitor the board, and I'm just a private message away.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mrwhlr
    Well I disagree with the notion that failing to post photographs of one's cracked, or broken, frame online qualifies as sweeping it under the rug.
    Give 'da people 'da air.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBOC
    I considered not posting anything, but ultimately I figured this was a positive post. If Knolly wants me to pull the pictures, or even the thread, I'd be happy to. I know they monitor the board, and I'm just a private message away.
    Bikes are bikes and are taken into rough places to be abused. No matter how strong or weak a bike is, some will break. I think it's important to know how Knolly support for users is, and I think this is a good post.

  17. #17
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    X2

    Quote Originally Posted by rzozaya1969
    Bikes are bikes and are taken into rough places to be abused. No matter how strong or weak a bike is, some will break. I think it's important to know how Knolly support for users is, and I think this is a good post.
    I agree. Everything breaks eventually. Just because it has a big K on it doesn't make it immune to the laws of physics. Nothing wrong with the occasional kill shot, especially when their CS gets a rave review. That's what really matters anyway.
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  18. #18
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    I'm a couple #s more than BOC, 25 to be precise. I break bikes, and I break em quick. I'm giving my sultan till September before I see something and I bought it a month and a half ago. Don't do it on purpose, I just like pushing myself whenever I feel like it and build my bikes for the purpose of riding them like that, I've learned that CS is more important to me than price.

    I have had experience with Knolly CS and they were stupid awesome in helping me out, and quickly. I'm dealing with Intense right now and all I have to say is that in the time since I started the discussion to sending the part in that needs replaced Knolly had me set up and riding again. No more intense for this guy.

    I'll be getting a Delirium next year to upgrade the DT I've been on since '08. And probably another vtach or a podium for DH.

    (edit... I don't trash wheels which is odd...)

  19. #19
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    [QUOTE=BBOC]No biggie.
    QUOTE]
    I read the title, and thought for sure the conclusion was going to be you were gonna get a DT.

    Glad everything worked out for you, Dave, Larry and Knolly, all upstanding people in the bike industry.
    Down is the new up.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by EricTheRed
    I read the title, and thought for sure the conclusion was going to be you were gonna get a DT.
    If it was a crash replacement I would be seriously considering the new Delerium, but this is much more pocketbook freindly.

    I actually found this out after seeing you at Hall, took the bike to Dave right after that ride.
    Give 'da people 'da air.

  21. #21
    Perpetual Hack
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    Old public news, but I broke my first DT - an 07
    Knolly had a new frame to me; BC to Ontario and I was up and running in a week. No LBS involved. I called, they sent new frame, I stripped old / build new, put old frame in box and returned. Simple, Painless, Fast and GREATLY APPRECIATED!!

    Knolly CS rocks.

    michael

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by glitz
    Yes, because all bike shop employees are drinkers.

    I asked a shop once, and he said he DETESTS when people come around with packs of beer, and how sometimes he has to stack them up because people keep bringing them, and how he feels insulted that first, they think he can be paid/bought with alcohol, that he is an alcoholic, and that he does his work for free, and just wants beer.

    I hope bike shops start dropping the hammer on idiots that think everyone in a bike shop is a drunk and can be bought off with beer.
    worst. post. evAr.
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  23. #23
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    I guess I spoke too soon. On the ride today someone pointed out that my thomson stem had a cracked faceplate. I said that's no big deal (I have couple more sitting in the garage.)

    Then I was telling another knolly rider about this post. When I went to show him where it was, I saw this:



    Exact same place. He checked his and there is a bump there, he couldn't tell if his was a crack. Mine definitely is.
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  24. #24
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    Yep, other guy on the ride had a crack on his too. Luckily they were different colors so I won't have to worry about him stealing my replacement.
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  25. #25
    Meh
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    Yeah, sad day...but I'll take a black one.. j/k

  26. #26
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    Damn. I just checked my Endo as well...looks like I have the same frame crack as the O.P..

    Thanks for the heads-up on the issue!
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Last edited by robertj; 05-22-2010 at 10:44 PM.

  27. #27
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    OK....everyone PANIC!
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  28. #28
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    ok everyone stop looking at your bikes please. not going to look at mine, not going to look at mine...dat would be numb 4.
    k n o ll y r o c k s

  29. #29
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    metalurgy

    Has anyone gotten any info on how shot-peen ano affects the grain structure of the aluminum? Seems that most of the cracks here are on shot-peen ano, all the ones I'm aware of have been also.

    Good questions for Knolly. I'm sure that somewhere along the way the completed frame parts are annealed or heat treated. What differs between a frame that is set to be powder coated vs a frame that will be bead blasted (can affect grain structure) and then anodized? (etching into the surface of the aluminum).

    Looking at the photos of the lowers with cracks, they seem as though they could eventually be catastrophic if not noticed.

    I work with metal deposition in the semiconductor industry. Aluminum will do really weird stuff with heat....It's awesome that Knolly is replacing anything that is broke pronto, but maybe some insight into corrective actions and or failure modes would be beneficial here?

    Just my 2 cents....Bizzo, go check your bike, NOW! Don't need you out of commission, you gotta lotta riding to do this summer to trim down!

  30. #30
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    Mooney, do you work for my company? If you do we have an email distribution list for mountain biking
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  31. #31
    Bike to the Bone...
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiSS'er
    OK....everyone PANIC!
    Lol! Mine look good so far... not panicked yet!

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by austin_bike
    Mooney, do you work for my company? If you do we have an email distribution list for mountain biking
    Nah, I work for Fr**scale across the street

  33. #33
    Feeding your addiction
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrwhlr
    ...and since I read these things from the bottom up...Knolly might benefit from seeing those photos, but in their email inbox, not here.
    They got the pics in their inbox and had a new chainstay in the mail before this even got posted on mtbr.

    Larry
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  34. #34
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    New rear triangle is on its way already. Actually, they benefit from the thread. If I had not read this thread, I would not have been looking at mine, nor would the other guy on the ride. Eventually that could have been a catostrophic failure which would have been a LOT worse.

    Think of this thread as a PSA. Quietly sweeping something under the carpet might help keep things quiet, but the earlier they understand the severity, the quicker they can take action to address it.

    Look at Toyota. They had problems for years. Suddenly it all comes out and it has blown up on them because they tried so hard to keep it down. Does anyone want that?
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  35. #35
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    One more :[

    I just looked and I have a crack in the same place. Im off to the bike shop..

  36. #36
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    I've been in the same boat. If it's any consolation, I've ridden it cracked for a long time on some pretty rough stuff and never had a critical failure.

    The crew at Knolly took care of me perfectly. I still ride my Endorphin with 100% confidence in it's strength. I hit a drop in Moab yesterday and got caught in a breeze, it ended up taking me off line and I landed fully bottomed with a huge thud - my left pedal spindle (ti) snapped clean off and I had to ride the remaining 8 miles with one pedal. Knolly unscathed. To me, instances like that tell me it's not a design flaw that's at hand, but a manufacuring defect or some other unforeseeable anomoly.

    I like riding bikes much more than speculating about them, and my Knollys have never let me down or left me stranded. Cheers boys! Can't wait to build up my Podium.
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  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoahColorado
    I've been in the same boat. If it's any consolation, I've ridden it cracked for a long time on some pretty rough stuff and never had a critical failure.

    The crew at Knolly took care of me perfectly. I still ride my Endorphin with 100% confidence in it's strength. I hit a drop in Moab yesterday and got caught in a breeze, it ended up taking me off line and I landed fully bottomed with a huge thud - my left pedal spindle (ti) snapped clean off and I had to ride the remaining 8 miles with one pedal. Knolly unscathed. To me, instances like that tell me it's not a design flaw that's at hand, but a manufacuring defect or some other unforeseeable anomoly.

    I like riding bikes much more than speculating about them, and my Knollys have never let me down or left me stranded. Cheers boys! Can't wait to build up my Podium.

    I would like to know when the people with broken frames purchased their frame. This might give us some insight whether this is a design fault or a "bad batch" of aluminum.

    Maybe Noel can comment to put the issue to rest.
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  38. #38
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    @tiSS'er

    I think you'll find a fairly wide range of purchase dates:

    My endo was purchased almost 2 yrs ago, and has probably been growing the chainstay crack for some time under a fine layer of dirt (I don't wash my bikes, only wipe off).

    austin_bike's is maybe 6 months old?

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by robertj
    @tiSS'er

    I think you'll find a fairly wide range of purchase dates:

    My endo was purchased almost 2 yrs ago, and has probably been growing the chainstay crack for some time under a fine layer of dirt (I don't wash my bikes, only wipe off).

    austin_bike's is maybe 6 months old?

    If that is the case, I suspect there is a design fault. I will be keeping a close eye on mine
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  40. #40
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    Interesting that you rode with no problem. I have the crack and I was not planning to ride it. However on Saturday I have a race (CAT 3, old guy) and it's just XC, not competitive. My backup bike is in the shop getting a new drive train. I wonder if I should just ride the knolly?
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  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoahColorado
    I've been in the same boat. If it's any consolation, I've ridden it cracked for a long time on some pretty rough stuff and never had a critical failure.

    The crew at Knolly took care of me perfectly. I still ride my Endorphin with 100% confidence in it's strength. I hit a drop in Moab yesterday and got caught in a breeze, it ended up taking me off line and I landed fully bottomed with a huge thud - my left pedal spindle (ti) snapped clean off and I had to ride the remaining 8 miles with one pedal. Knolly unscathed. To me, instances like that tell me it's not a design flaw that's at hand, but a manufacuring defect or some other unforeseeable anomoly.

    I like riding bikes much more than speculating about them, and my Knollys have never let me down or left me stranded. Cheers boys! Can't wait to build up my Podium.
    Nothing against Knolly in this, as they make awesome bikes, but EVERY bike will last one **** up. Even those other brands tout ONE massive launch, outside of design parameters, and the bike comes away unscathed. How about the next time? Go to the beginner/ALL MOUNTAIN forum here and you'll see n00b's saying the same thing about how their bargain basement bike was ridden way out of design parameters and still didn't break.

    Regardless, Knolly seems to overdesign, something I agree with, going against the trend of going lighter. Even with "smarter" design that makes a bike lighter AND stronger, there are still sacrifices in certain places, like impacts, for instance. I'm sure Noel is not happy even with a few failures, as they go outside of his design philosophy, so besides taking care of the customers, he's probably not resting until the design is perfect.

  42. #42
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    Fast service from Knolly

    A 5 min call and new parts are on the way. PS my wife said it cracked cause I'm fat
    I did break a frame last year Knolly sent a new frame out and was riding 5 days later.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by tuco
    A 5 min call and new parts are on the way. PS my wife said it cracked cause I'm fat
    I did break a frame last year Knolly sent a new frame out and was riding 5 days later.

    I love hearing this. Service like this will improve upon the already stellar reputation of Knolly.
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  44. #44
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    Nice vacation return reading here.....

    Quote Originally Posted by austin_bike
    New rear triangle is on its way already. Actually, they benefit from the thread. If I had not read this thread, I would not have been looking at mine, nor would the other guy on the ride. Eventually that could have been a catostrophic failure which would have been a LOT worse.

    Think of this thread as a PSA. Quietly sweeping something under the carpet might help keep things quiet, but the earlier they understand the severity, the quicker they can take action to address it.

    Look at Toyota. They had problems for years. Suddenly it all comes out and it has blown up on them because they tried so hard to keep it down. Does anyone want that?
    Are you really this hysterical about everything?

    If you examined that chain stay for five minutes you'd see it is not cracked across the bottom and it's solid through the center. Your little crack, and those like it, most likely will never get past the center line. A tire going flat suddenly would result in greater loss of control than your chain stay coming apart completely (which it won't).

    Painting Knolly with the Toyota brush is cheap, IMO.

  45. #45
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    Someone said that this was best handled off the board. I disagree. Based on the original posting several people have found issues and they can now work with Knolly get this fixed.

    Catastrophic failure? Who knows. But the point is nobody wants to find out their frame is cracked because it splits on them.

    The toyota analogy was about how they handled the PR aspect. As someone in that line of business, it was a case study on how to not deal with customer issues. Put your head in the sand. Deny. Deflect. Do everything you can to keep it from coming out. Then, when it finally does, there is a long paper trail back to you that looks really bad.

    I'm glad Knolly is addressing this and I am glad that it was brought up here so I could address it now, on my terms, vs. later when it is less convenient.
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  46. #46
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    Does anyone know if there is going to be an upgraded (stronger) swingarm?

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by dulyebr
    Does anyone know if there is going to be an upgraded (stronger) swingarm?
    It depends on how many are cracking, I bet. If it's a small percentage, then replacing failed parts promptly (as they've done) seems more cost effective than a re-design. Adding strength to a weak spot only moves it somewhere else.

    Anyway...I think they should be busy working on the Delerium XC instead

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrwhlr
    It depends on how many are cracking, I bet. If it's a small percentage, then replacing failed parts promptly (as they've done) seems more cost effective than a re-design. Adding strength to a weak spot only moves it somewhere else.

    Anyway...I think they should be busy working on the Delerium XC instead
    It might be more cost effective, but as a customer, I'd feel better if I think that they are designing a stronger part and putting it on new bikes, and if I have a problem, to know that the piece they would be sending fixes the issue, rather than hoping it doesn't show up again. Honestly, I don't know what percentage of Endo's have the potential for this happening, but I don't think that strengthen this part would mean moving the stress to another weak spot.

    Anyway, I really don't know how hard or easy would mean redesigning that part, maybe just add more material in that part? On all the cracks (well, not many but I think that there are about four mentioned here), it's on the same spot.

  49. #49
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    To fill the hole with material might solve the problem? Just checked mine, no crack, so far...

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by glitz

    I hope bike shops start dropping the hammer on idiots that think everyone in a bike shop is a drunk and can be bought off with beer.
    Uptight are we? I think you better go find a tree with a hole in it and go put your peepee in it, you may get a squirel job and come home with a smile.

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