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  1. #1
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    Need help picking drivetrain for Chilcotin

    I'm building up a Chili, and I could use some advice. I've got everything done except the drivetrain. My initial intent was to use a 3x9 setup that I have sitting around from another bike. I was thinking about saving a few bucks and not falling for the "latest and greatest" syndrome. Plus, I've already spent more than I originally intended so far on the rest of the build. But, I rarely regret spending extra money for better quality (or more appropriate equipment, in this case).

    Recently I've been thinking about going with a 2x10 setup with a clutch derailleur ( I LOVE quiet) and chainguide. I can deal with the gears that I'm giving up by going to 2x10, but wanted some real world feedback as to whether it's worth the money if I have a perfectly good 3x9 setup collecting dust at home?

    I considered 1x10 (or 1x9) but I don't think I have the legs for it right now. A few years ago I rocked a singlespeed, but I need some time to get back to that level. Also, I don't want to avoid rides that sound cool just because they have a long, grueling climb.

    OK, enough rambling. Any advice?
    Taiwan could probably TIG weld a ham sandwich to a dictionary these days, but its been a while since they were doing brazing.

  2. #2
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    Wish i could help you but i bought the new XT 3x10 crankset and stripped it down to make it a 1x10 .. I am using a 32T up front, 11-36 cassette ,and Saint m820 short cage derailleur... For whatever i climb it works , the bikes suspension helps out a lot so dont forget about that . You will notice that you can climb things you usually couldn't . Im not in the best shape right now but i try to push myself as much as i can , take a little break and continue or just walk up some trails.

    Now if you want a 2x10 i would say the XT will work or maybe XO if your into carbon .

    Whats your style of riding ? Terrain ? Location ? Do you like to ride up or down more ?

    Also if you check out the Chilcolting Build thread , you can see everyones setup . We all are riding on very smilar setups .

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by aedubber View Post
    Wish i could help you but i bought the new XT 3x10 crankset and stripped it down to make it a 1x10 .. I am using a 32T up front, 11-36 cassette ,and Saint m820 short cage derailleur... For whatever i climb it works , the bikes suspension helps out a lot so dont forget about that . You will notice that you can climb things you usually couldn't . Im not in the best shape right now but i try to push myself as much as i can , take a little break and continue or just walk up some trails.

    Now if you want a 2x10 i would say the XT will work or maybe XO if your into carbon .

    Whats your style of riding ? Terrain ? Location ? Do you like to ride up or down more ?

    Also if you check out the Chilcolting Build thread , you can see everyones setup . We all are riding on very smilar setups .
    My style of riding? I survive the uphill to get to the downhill. I ride all kinds of trails in Oregon & Washington. I'm finding that I seek out trails with drops and jumps and technical downhills more and more but I'm still at the steep part of the learning curve in that regard.

    I'd love to run a 1x10, but I'm struggling to convince myself. I want to have the option to throw my bike in the car (or airline) and go to Moab or Crested Butte and spend a week riding. Now, I may or may not actually do that, but I want the option.

    I guess my real question is; what do I give up by going with my existing 3x9?
    Chain slap? Dropped chains? I don't care about weight (within reason) or about the cool factor. But I'm trying to understand what the tradeoff's would be between a 2x10 and 3x9, besides the obvious gearing differences.

    Thanks for your advice, I really appreciate the input.
    Taiwan could probably TIG weld a ham sandwich to a dictionary these days, but its been a while since they were doing brazing.

  4. #4
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    I got 2x10 and love it. Can do pretty much anything with it. I'm not the best climber but i've been climbing alot of things on the chilli now that I could never do before. I got the raceface sixc cranks with 2x10

  5. #5
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    I swapped over to 2x10 when I got my chili and love it. 32/24 up front with a shimano xt clutch rear der. I rode it for a month or so before I swapped the rear der/cog set with 2x9, I had a Blackspire stinger (pulley) mounted to keep the chain slap from bouncing the chain off, the clutch der eliminated the need for it. The derailleurs are money well spent in my opinion. I ride mainly on the wet side in Wa, with the occasional trip back to Oregon and Whistler.

  6. #6
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    I am going through the same dilema while I wait for my chili. I've been on a 1x9 (32 ring , 11-32 cassette) on my DT for the past year. I've got a 9spd XO that just won't quit.

    My thought process has been stick with 9 speed since I have a new XO 11-34 cassette & chain that's been in a box for past year. Combine that with some XO cranks I picked up on sale & a MRP 30T bling ring & I have virtually the same gear ratio as a 1x10 with an 11x36 (at least for climbing). I will also run a CSixx chain guide.

    However, throw in a clutch derailer & the bling factor going to 10 spd & I have gone back & forth.

    For me I am going to stick with 9 speed for now since I have new parts in stock. With that said, anything I replace will be 10 speed compatible. (I have had my e-shopping cart full 3 times to replace everything...& still might the longer I wait for frame) . I would like to try a clutch rear derailuer but since I am not gaining much in gearing I am going to try & sit tight. Plus with a short cage rear derailuer & chain guide I don't have much chain slap that I notice.

    Why not try 2x9 or 1x9 with your current set up & see how you like it? You can always upgrade on your second ride. Conversely...1x11 sounds like a perfect fit..except for the cost & the cassette freehub compatibility. Why not try and wait to see if it trickles down or if Shimano steps up?

  7. #7
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    Keep your cranks and set it up 2X. Get some new rings and a bash guard. Then get a new set up for the rear; clutch derailleur and 10 speed cassette.

    You can save some money by keeping a perfectly good crank. I like the Blackspire chain rings. They are 9/10 speed compatible and have plenty of sizes.

  8. #8
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    Keep 9 spd., go 1x9. I honestly can't tell any difference in chain slap between my short cage X9 9 speed and my neighbor's med. cage X9 Type 2.

  9. #9
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    My first build was a 3x9 drivetrain. It was horrible because the DB air adjustment force me to put more clicks in the LSC and LSR to minimize the pedal kick back and to get more firm with the 22 ring. This caused a lot of lost of the rear traction in the downhills.

    I changed the setup to a 2x9 (26/38) with a cassette 12/36 and I love it. I've configured the DB air with the Knolly speficiations and the bike runs great in all terrains.

    Anyway I think now the best solution for all mountain bikes is the drivetrain 1x11 (if you can)
    Last edited by graypaw; 01-01-2013 at 03:17 AM.

  10. #10
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    1 x 11

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by loamranger View Post
    1 x 11
    I'm not willing to drop $300 plus for each rear derailleur that gets ripped off my bike, and it will happen. The XX1 rear d's kinda hang out there...

    Plus a spare X5 med. cage for my camelbak is $50 tops; not an option for XX1.

  12. #12
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    One of the purported advantages of 2x10 is the crisper front shifting due to more ideal shifting location with the 3:2 magic ratios (39/26, 42/28). This is at the expense of a 120/80mm chainring BCD, which makes it impossible to run smaller than a 26t chainring. Also, personally I find a 39t middle ring essentially useless for most of the trails where I want to ride the Chilcotin.

    If you go with a more conventional setup (36/24 or one of the new 22-33-44 SRAM 3x10 setups) you can still get the advantage of the crisper from shifting with a more reasonable gear range. You can use the crankset you have in a 2x9 or 2x10 setup and upgrade as parts need to be replaced or you feel like it.

    I am pretty weak at the moment due to several injuries over the past couple of years and make a lot of use of my granny ring (I have 22-34 front chainrings and 11-34 9-speed cassette). I spent two weeks riding out of Hood River this Summer, three months after ACL reconstruction surgery, and was very glad to have that 22 ring. The climbs in Oregon and Southern Washington tend to be pretty smooth but they are long and steep. There is no way I could make it up the Oak Ridge trail switchbacks up to Surveyor's Ridge for example or the Falls Creek climb without a granny ring to conserve energy.

    I have never felt any pedal feedback on the Chilcotin in the 22t chainring. There is barely any chain growth in the 4x4 suspension design and it is one of the most neutral pedaling platforms I have ever experienced. In the granny, the bike just bites a little more (additional anti-squat) but rolls over rocks and sharp edges without ever tugging on the pedals. I am very sensitive to this as I have had to ride flats all season due to the surgery, instead of SPDs.

    Three Summers ago I spent two weeks riding in the Italian and French Alps on a Banshee Spitfire. That bike had a tremendous amount of pedal feedback and it was just unbearable in a 22t chainring. I ran a 26t on that trip and got through some heinous climbs that put Oregon and Washington to shame, but I was in one of the best shapes of my life.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by nybike1971 View Post
    One of the purported advantages of 2x10 is the crisper front shifting due to more ideal shifting location with the 3:2 magic ratios (39/26, 42/28). This is at the expense of a 120/80mm chainring BCD, which makes it impossible to run smaller than a 26t chainring. Also, personally I find a 39t middle ring essentially useless for most of the trails where I want to ride the Chilcotin.

    If you go with a more conventional setup (36/24 or one of the new 22-33-44 SRAM 3x10 setups) you can still get the advantage of the crisper from shifting with a more reasonable gear range. You can use the crankset you have in a 2x9 or 2x10 setup and upgrade as parts need to be replaced or you feel like it.

    I am pretty weak at the moment due to several injuries over the past couple of years and make a lot of use of my granny ring (I have 22-34 front chainrings and 11-34 9-speed cassette). I spent two weeks riding out of Hood River this Summer, three months after ACL reconstruction surgery, and was very glad to have that 22 ring. The climbs in Oregon and Southern Washington tend to be pretty smooth but they are long and steep. There is no way I could make it up the Oak Ridge trail switchbacks up to Surveyor's Ridge for example or the Falls Creek climb without a granny ring to conserve energy.

    I have never felt any pedal feedback on the Chilcotin in the 22t chainring. There is barely any chain growth in the 4x4 suspension design and it is one of the most neutral pedaling platforms I have ever experienced. In the granny, the bike just bites a little more (additional anti-squat) but rolls over rocks and sharp edges without ever tugging on the pedals. I am very sensitive to this as I have had to ride flats all season due to the surgery, instead of SPDs.

    Three Summers ago I spent two weeks riding in the Italian and French Alps on a Banshee Spitfire. That bike had a tremendous amount of pedal feedback and it was just unbearable in a 22t chainring. I ran a 26t on that trip and got through some heinous climbs that put Oregon and Washington to shame, but I was in one of the best shapes of my life.
    Good info Luca, thanks. Another major PITA for me with the new 120/80BCD cranks is finding a suitable bashring (much needed here). I did find a Blackspire Defender designed for SRAM cranks, I'm hoping it fits my RF crank.
    "Three balls at once...who knew?" - Cotton McKnight

  14. #14
    Ride Hard. Go Fast.
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    Anyone considering the XX1 drivetrain? What Q-factor would the Chili use? 156 or 168?

  15. #15
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    Before I decided to stick with 1x9 I did a lot of price shopping this week for 10 speed XO. Maybe it helps somebody.

    In case you are considering XO 10 speed and are buying online (a lot of ifs....)...the best prices I have found at least as of this week are as follows (did I mention I was really close to pulling trigger on parts):

    --Universal cycles using their VIP 15 coupon - XO type 2 rear derailleur , XO Shifter, XO 1080 Cassette, KMC chain... $600ish. If you go with a 1070 cassette price drops to $475 ish. They seem to be the best price for the whole package right now. Basically MSRP less 15%
    --Go-ride.com has am OEM XO 10 speed rear shifter for $85 and an XO standard 10 speed rear derailleur for $150 ish.
    --artscyclery.com has an X0 10 speed rear shifter (new not OEM) for $110 using coupon code newyear25 (saves 25%...but only works on shifter not rest of drivetrain).
    --If you like shimano, jensonusa.com has the xtr 10 speed cassette on sale.
    --don't know if any are left but jensonusa also had XO cranks for $180.

    I was not pricing cranks or a front derailluer or shifter so can not speak to those prices.

    I really need to get my frame delivered; the longer I wait the more parts I end up "upgrading".

  16. #16
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    I think I'm going to go with a 2x10 set up on my chili. 24/36 in front and 11x36 in the rear with a clutch derailleur, Ronnie ring and bash. No chain guide. This should work, right?

    If so I assume this means I need to stay with a conventional 3x crank spider not the newer 10 speed 80/120mm BCD set up?

    I'd like to try out a 1x11 set up some time. I'm still skeptical. Why doesn't anyone talk about bad chainline/crossing with these set ups. Are they designed to work with these extreme angles?

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by KRob View Post
    I think I'm going to go with a 2x10 set up on my chili. 24/36 in front and 11x36 in the rear with a clutch derailleur, Ronnie ring and bash. No chain guide. This should work, right?

    If so I assume this means I need to stay with a conventional 3x crank spider not the newer 10 speed 80/120mm BCD set up?

    I'd like to try out a 1x11 set up some time. I'm still skeptical. Why doesn't anyone talk about bad chainline/crossing with these set ups. Are they designed to work with these extreme angles?
    KRob,

    Be sure to get a 3x10 crank with a 104/64BCD and you will be fine. I'm a bit frustrated by this whole new 120/80BCD 2x10 setups as they are very limiting, but ultimately lighter. As Luca mentioned above, they can create a bit of magic shifting, but it is hardly anything worth writing home about. I ran my 429 with an XTR Shadow Plus rear derailleur and nothing more than a front derailleur. In the 10 months of riding, I never once dropped a chain.

    My next rear derailleur will be an X9 Type 2. I really like the roller clutch, it is a game changer IMO. Not sure if the SRAM version allows for tension adjustment like the Shimano version does.
    "Three balls at once...who knew?" - Cotton McKnight

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldschoolBMXer View Post
    Anyone considering the XX1 drivetrain? What Q-factor would the Chili use? 156 or 168?
    168. Here's my Chili with XX1: Knolly Chilcotin: Build Information, Photos and Set-up Thread.

  19. #19
    Ride Hard. Go Fast.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rslawrence View Post

    Thanks! Sweet build. I'd recommend the twenty6 predator pedals for lighter and grippier flats.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiSS'er View Post
    Not sure if the SRAM version allows for tension adjustment like the Shimano version does.
    No, it does not. SRAM Type 2 = non-serviceable.

  21. #21
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    Get the XT 3x10.
    You can drop the 42t replace it with a bash ring and turn it into a 2x10.
    Then later as you get stronger you can drop the granny and run 1x10.
    Buying a 3x10 gives you the most flexibility for your money.
    I'm running 1x10 with the 32t and 11-36 cassette and the XT 786 shadow plus derailleur.
    Zero chain slap and hardly ever needs any adjustments.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiSS'er View Post
    KRob,

    Be sure to get a 3x10 crank with a 104/64BCD and you will be fine. I'm a bit frustrated by this whole new 120/80BCD 2x10 setups as they are very limiting, but ultimately lighter. As Luca mentioned above, they can create a bit of magic shifting, but it is hardly anything worth writing home about. I ran my 429 with an XTR Shadow Plus rear derailleur and nothing more than a front derailleur. In the 10 months of riding, I never once dropped a chain.

    My next rear derailleur will be an X9 Type 2. I really like the roller clutch, it is a game changer IMO. Not sure if the SRAM version allows for tension adjustment like the Shimano version does.
    SRAM now makes a spider for the X0 cranks with 22-33-44 rings. If you get rid of the 44 and replace with a bash it gives you the 3:2 magic ratio between 22 and 33, a 104/64BCD, and reasonable gears. Not a bad option.

    Kidwoo wrote a review on blistergearreview.com comparing the clutch derailleur options from Shimano and SRAM. It sounds like Shimano has a more dialed solution as of now:

    Shimano XT vs. SRAM X9 Clutch Derailleur Systems | Blister Gear Review

  23. #23
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    Sounds complicated...
    How about a hammerscmitd & be done with it!
    I've been on one for almost 3 years wo 1 single chain dropped ever!
    Go with the freeride vs the am for the chili - less arm flex

  24. #24
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    For now, since money is an issue, it's a no brainer. Go with 2x9 + bash, and use as much of your current setup as possible. This will be a test to see if the 32 ring is too small for you. For the long rides, take off the bask and put the big ring back on.

    If you find that you are dropping chains, there are 2x chainguides (Mountain Racing Products home of MRP, White Brothers, Kreitler, Tamer, and Power Grips | 2x), although I have not tested them. (I do have the MRP and e13, and like them both, the e13 is sturdier and heavier, for my Chilcotin I went MRP)

    Then, this summer, or next xmas, treat yourself to a 1x10 with a 11-36 and new cranks (SIXC carbon, XTR Trail etc).

    I am of the opinion it is always good to do a gradual upgrade of the bike. It is more pleasurable, you make better choices, and its cheaper, since you can buy stuff on sale throughout the year.
    Regional Race Manager, Knolly Bikes
    Washington State, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa

  25. #25
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    Thanks!

    A ton of really good advice in this thread. I appreciate the help.

    After a lot of research and deliberation, I'm going 1x10. 32 front ring with a 36/11 cassette. I remember how riding a single speed kicked my ass, but it made also forced me to get a lot stronger. Plus, when I ran the numbers 1x10 wasn't that different from 3x10 or 2x10. If I'm wrong, I'll deal with it.

    I'm sticking with the old 3x XT cranks (with a new 32t ring), a saint rear derailleur, and xtr shifter. Plus a MRP mini G2 SL chainguide.
    Taiwan could probably TIG weld a ham sandwich to a dictionary these days, but its been a while since they were doing brazing.

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