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  1. #1
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    Max fork length's for Knolly bikes?

    I was just looking for this data under warranty on the Knolly website, but there was no chart for the "see chart below" note.

    What are max A to C fork length's allowed per frame? Including external bottom cup or not?

    (The tallest external bottom cup head set I know of is the Chris King at 15mm stack)

    The reason I ask is forks can have the same travel but different A to C lengths. (X-Fusion for example)

    2012 Endorphin:
    2012 Chilcotin:
    2010+ Delirium:
    2010+ Podium:
    2012 Podium:

    I did not include the old Endorphin, DeliriumT and V-tach because they would probably not have warranty left at this point.

    Thanks
    Last edited by bubba13; 10-10-2012 at 11:32 PM.
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  2. #2
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    I was doing some research on that as well, the X-fusion fork has a long A2C length for a 170mm , and i know the Marzz66 180mm with the same headset that the X-fusion fork had, both equalled about the same length in A2C . I think there are a few people that run a180mm Fork . This is on the Chilcotin frame.

  3. #3
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    Hey Lee,

    From my understanding, it has less to do with A2C, but more associated with "intent". If you stay, in the general ballpark, 10mm here and there are fine. This will modify geometry slightly.

    My interpretation
    Podium - dual crown (max 200m)
    Delirium - Totem, Marz 66, Van 180, Float 180 (max 180mm)
    Chilcotin - 35 or 36 mm stanchions - Lyric, Fox (max 170mm)
    Endorphin -32 -34 mm forks - (max 150mm)

    The fork, shock, and wheels will set the limit of the frame and its use - unless you have the skills to smoothly hit features.

    I am interested in the Endorphin but using a Fox 36 Float lowered to 140mm. I don't think I could ever ride a 32mm fork again. So even though I have the correct A2C by doing this and having a good shock, and fat tires - I may start hitting features outside of the bike's intent. Now if I am smooth, I will probably be okay. However, if I am using the more robust fork, fat tires, and better shock to save me (ie case features), the frame in the end is not designed for this abuse.

    I think the same goes for the Chilcotin with 180mm forks, and the Delirium with a dual crown. The frames can handle them, but if you continuously ride them with the intended use of the fork there could be issues.

    Jamie
    Last edited by Dude!; 10-11-2012 at 09:46 AM.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dude! View Post

    I am interested in the Endorphin but using a Fox 36 Float lowered to 140mm. I don't think I could ever ride a 32mm fork again. So even though I have the correct A2C by doing this and having a good shock, and fat tires - I may start hitting features outside of the bike's intent. Now if I am smooth, I will probably be okay. However, if I am using the more robust fork, fat tires, and better shock to save me (ie case features), the frame in the end is not designed for this abuse.

    Jamie
    Sorry to derail!
    Jamie, what happened to your TRc? Are you looking at the Endo to replace it? I am looking for a trail bike in the 125-140mm range and would be interested in your thoughts.

    As far as the forks go, what about the new crop of 34mm forks?

    Thanks for any insight.

    TG

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dude! View Post
    Hey Lee,

    From my understanding, it has less to do with A2C, but more associated with "intent". If you stay, in the general ballpark, 10mm here and there are fine. This will modify geometry slightly.

    My interpretation
    Podium - dual crown (max 200m)
    Delirium - Totem, Marz 66, Van 180, Float 180 (max 180mm)
    Chilcotin - 35 or 36 mm stanchions - Lyric, Fox (max 170mm)
    Endorphin -32 -34 mm forks - (max 150mm)

    The fork, shock, and wheels will set the limit of the frame and its use - unless you have the skills to smoothly hit features.

    I think the same goes for the Chilcotin with 180mm forks, and the Delirium with a dual crown. The frames can handle them, but if you continuously ride them with the intended use of the fork there could be issues.

    Jamie
    Hey Jamie,

    I guess a hard set of rules is really not required if your set up is close to specifications and used accordingly. I am currently looking at changing up the quiver and make the Chilcotin my "big" bike.

    Obviously "big" bike means different things to each rider. I am firmly set in the trail rider (earn my turns) catagory. The only gaps I jump are all rollable and I don't see any bike park visits in my future.

    I recently put the 180 Float on the Chilcotin with the intent of possibly stepping travel down 10mm if I liked it. Well, it works great at 180mm with the shock in the steep position. For me it is a win because it allows me to use my Havoc carbon bars with 20mm rise and 25mm of spacers. It also gives me the same HT angles as the slack mode but without the low bottom bracket.

    So the proposed Chilcotin beef up consists of Float 180 RC2, Flow EX rims, Minion 2.5 front, High Roller 2 2.4 rear, and Avy Woodie. Then eventually put together a 30 pound 140mm travel trail bike with 27.5 or 29" wheels. I kind of have 650b on the brain too.

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  6. #6
    TSC
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    The A2C affects your climbing. Think of the back wheel thru-axle as your pivot point. When the center of mass of the bike and rider is behind the back thru-axle, then the front tire leaves the ground. When the center of mass is near the back thru-axle then your front tire bobs and wanders.

    In short: A shorter A2C on a bike allows you to climb steeper, techier hills on that same bike.
    "sounds like you need to find a better mechanic..." -- Calhoun

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by TSC View Post
    The A2C affects your climbing. Think of the back wheel thru-axle as your pivot point. When the center of mass of the bike and rider is behind the back thru-axle, then the front tire leaves the ground. When the center of mass is near the back thru-axle then your front tire bobs and wanders.

    In short: A shorter A2C on a bike allows you to climb steeper, techier hills on that same bike.
    No problem climbing with the 180 vs the 160. It is very similar having the 160 in the slack mode.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by G-AIR View Post
    Sorry to derail!
    Jamie, what happened to your TRc? Are you looking at the Endo to replace it? I am looking for a trail bike in the 125-140mm range and would be interested in your thoughts.

    As far as the forks go, what about the new crop of 34mm forks?

    Thanks for any insight.

    TG
    HaHa.....loaded question and this will unfortunately derail this thread - Sorry Lee! Maybe not...

    I am in a state of flux at the moment with some of this.

    I still have my TRc. I built it up aggressive - Fox 36 lowered 135mm, 2.4 tires, 50mm, 30in bars, dropper post. I started with the Fox RP23, then DSP coil, and now PUSH Monarch PLUS. The bike in the mode is ideal. The bike is sub 29lbs.

    However....the Delirium.....I recently added a PUSH Monarch RT3 to the Delirium and in doing so slowing reduced my Fox Float from 170mm to 160mm and moved to the middle geometry setting. My Delirium at the moment weights 34lbs. This setup is awesome - pedals well, playful, and still aggressively handle the downs. I still have a coil shock and Marz 66 for the bigger days.

    Blur TRc accelerates faster than the Delirium (even with RT3 set to firm) and is lighter. After that, the Delirium wins in ever other category. The most important aspect is that the Delirium climbs betters. I believe that the Delirium fits me better. In the end, I am overall faster and much happier riding the Delirium. I said before, the Delirium is the gold standard of bikes.

    Transitioning between the TRc and the Delirium requires a little bit of adjustment. I can always hop on the Delirium and feel right at home. If I ride the Blur TRc for sometime, my comfort with the bike improves a lot. The TRc is a ripper and the geometry allows for a different type of riding style. When comfortable with the TRc, I have hit 20 footers, big drops, etc. One thing I should mention is that I am 100% confident that the carbon fiber of the TRc can handle abuse. The dual slalom event at the Sea Otter Classic had a bunch of TRcs hitting big features.

    I think the overall comfort is related to the longer wheelbase with the Delirium. This makes a big difference in riding style. The new Endorphin has a similar wheelbase to the Delirium and the Chilcotin.

    Here is the flux part.....because I feel comfortable and overall faster with the Delirium I am at cross-road. I believe the new Endorphin will be better than the TRc and as Noel did with the Chilcotin make it a better pedaler. I consider the new Endorphin similar (mostly better version) of the Stumpy Evo (which get rave reviews).

    Just like the Stumpy Evo - it sits on a very narrow but blurry line. I am concerned that if I transfer the parts from the Blur TRc to the Endorphin, I could get myself in trouble with this bike - pushing it beyonds its limits.

    My thoughts at the moment - 1) get the Endorphin or 2) sell the Blur TRc and build a 32-33lb Delirium. I don't have my answer for this yet.

    If I was in the market for a trail bike that could handle some serious stuff - Endorphin! FYI - I almost purchased the Stumpy Evo last year, - it felt great and comfortable...but I didn't like the press in bottom bracket, wasn't frame only, different rear axle standard, and I am not a big S fan - even though they make solid bikes. The Mojo SL felt nice - but geometry on Ibis bikes are too XC oriented.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by bubba13 View Post

    Bike Tetris!
    I think this is called upgraditus 650B is intriguing - I need to ride one and see what all of the noise is about.

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    bubba, what's the steerer on the Float? If 1 1/8 " you can use a ZS on the bottom and keep the A to C within the range of a 170 fork with taper or 1.5" steerer, thus keeping the front end a bit lower. This is what I'm doing with my 180 BOS Idylle SC, which gives me 65.5 deg HA in steep. O/all A to C is the same as most 170's.

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    Quality over Quantity is what I say

    I'd rather have a quality fork with 160mm of well sprung/damped terra firma tracking traction
    rather than 180mm of squish that doesnt utlize 180mm of travel

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    Yea if you run a zero stack HS then the A2C on a 180mm fork w be good to go ...

    Bionicman- it has nothing to do w quality , what you ride and need might be different from what others ride and need .. My chili will be built up towards a more freeride setup and aggressive AM riding so a 160mm fork sometimes isn't enough .. Give me a 180mm fork and I'll be sure to use it all up . Different strokes for different folks !

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    Quote Originally Posted by loamranger View Post
    bubba, what's the steerer on the Float? If 1 1/8 " you can use a ZS on the bottom and keep the A to C within the range of a 170 fork with taper or 1.5" steerer, thus keeping the front end a bit lower. This is what I'm doing with my 180 BOS Idylle SC, which gives me 65.5 deg HA in steep. O/all A to C is the same as most 170's.
    Tapered. I am good with the stack height of the 180 and the CK lower external cup. In my case, I want the extra height to get the bars up where I like them. I want to use my 740mm carbon DH bars with 20mm rise. I don't know of any companies offering 740mm+ carbon bars with 35 to 40mm of rise. So...I am not really doing this to get a full 180mm of travel ((that does not exist on Fox forks anyway )), but the taller front end and the RC2 cart will be a plus without spending $ on a new fork.
    Last edited by bubba13; 10-11-2012 at 05:40 PM.
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    Looking to build up a Chilcotin. My prefered fork would be a 2012 55 RC3 Evo Ti. Stock it is 170mm of travel. Anyone know if it is possible to lower it to 160mm? My googling has turned up nothing and my emails to Marzocchi have gone unanswered.

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    ^only solution to this would be using the 160mm spring from the former years with a 10mm spacer. at least thats what i read somewhere...

    i think it was on nsmb and naz from marzocchi canada did the mod

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Longshore View Post
    Looking to build up a Chilcotin. My prefered fork would be a 2012 55 RC3 Evo Ti. Stock it is 170mm of travel. Anyone know if it is possible to lower it to 160mm? My googling has turned up nothing and my emails to Marzocchi have gone unanswered.
    Call Alex at Marzo canada, he'll give you the info you need and any parts shipped same day. 1-604-986-3675

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Longshore View Post
    Looking to build up a Chilcotin. My prefered fork would be a 2012 55 RC3 Evo Ti. Stock it is 170mm of travel. Anyone know if it is possible to lower it to 160mm? My googling has turned up nothing and my emails to Marzocchi have gone unanswered.
    The 2010 and 2011 versions of the 55 were 160mm. You might can pick one up at a steep discount.

    Also, call Marz support. In the USA you can almost always get through and they are helpful to customers (not like, SRAM that insists you be a bike shop).
    "sounds like you need to find a better mechanic..." -- Calhoun

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    Quote Originally Posted by VanGor44 View Post
    Call Alex at Marzo canada, he'll give you the info you need and any parts shipped same day. 1-604-986-3675
    Thanks.
    Called and they said $80 for parts an labour. But the few online retailers that had the 55 in a 1 1/8" ST are all sold out. FML. Maybe it's time to buy a Chilli as there seems to be a few tapered 55's kicking around. These things sure do snowball in a hurry

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    Unless someone has a 55 they would like to get rid of?

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    quoting myself...

    Quote Originally Posted by bubba13 View Post
    Tapered. I am good with the stack height of the 180 and the CK lower external cup. In my case, I want the extra height to get the bars up where I like them. I want to use my 740mm carbon DH bars with 20mm rise. I don't know of any companies offering 740mm+ carbon bars with 35 to 40mm of rise. So...I am not really doing this to get a full 180mm of travel ((that does not exist on Fox forks anyway )), but the taller front end and the RC2 cart will be a plus without spending $ on a new fork.

    Going back to 160mm fork on the Chilcotin after a few rides at 180mm. Keeping the front end planted in some turns was difficult at 180mm. So the bikes will be ridden as designed...180 for Delirium and 160 for Chilcotin. Sorry Noel, some of us are just too thick headed to operate equipment as designed....and have to try things for ourselves.
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  22. #22
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    Totally

    Heheh. I tried a 180 front on a 160 rear, different brand bike... the first uphill switchback I came to, it was like, "Uhhh, nope! Not happenin."
    Climbing ain't easy
    when you're fat and greasy
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by bubba13 View Post
    Going back to 160mm fork on the Chilcotin after a few rides at 180mm. Keeping the front end planted in some turns was difficult at 180mm. So the bikes will be ridden as designed...180 for Delirium and 160 for Chilcotin. Sorry Noel, some of us are just too thick headed to operate equipment as designed....and have to try things for ourselves.
    haha good to hear! It is how we learn and then pass the learning experience on to others to avoid

    I am amazed at how much I enjoy the Delirium at 160mm for most rides.

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    Have a 2010 delirium, which I was running with a 888 and have since gone to the 66.
    This is something I'm sorting out atm.
    Much prefer the 888, or a 8" fork
    Have found the 66 lowers the bike too much for me. Have found it has caused me a lot more pedal strike, which i rarely saw with the 888's.
    In saying that, the climbing with the 66's was a lot better than the 888's. But I still prefer having the 888's on the front.
    I run it with a zero stack headset and added sag, this brings front down a bit.
    Anyone else running a dual crown on these?

    Quick update, been running some Boxxers up front and they're a big surprise. Just finished doing 60k's on it over the last few days and they work a treat.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Max fork length's for Knolly bikes?-knolly015.jpg  

    Last edited by soontir; 11-06-2012 at 04:32 AM.

  25. #25
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    WTF ?!?!

    Ahh thats better. Yaaay admins!

    ...and now, back to our regularly scheduled forum

    Nice Bike!
    Last edited by VanGor44; 12-15-2012 at 03:13 PM.

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