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Thread: Made the Switch

  1. #1
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    Made the Switch

    I ended up making the change to a coil fork, more specifically a 2013 Marzocchi 55 Rc3Ti Evo V2. I only have a few rides on it in stock condition as I have an Avy cartridge coming for it in a few weeks. Here are my initial thoughts.

    Out of the box, the fork looks great, not that it really matters, but it helps. The fork weighed 5.5lbs uncut with axle. The brake mount was nicely machined, making brake alignment a breeze. The steerer is nice and thick, I didn't measure but I believe it is thicker than the Lyrik. The knobs are finished nicely, and compared to previous generation Marz forks, they are easy on the hands and there is no binding to speak of.

    I set the fork up with a few clicks of coil preload, 5 click of compression (11 total) and several clicks of rebound (I didn't count how many there are total). I set the compression based on the some previous info I read which shows the LSC/HSC curve of the fork. My understanding is that the RC3 damper works best somewhere near the middle. The fork does have just a bit of stiction at the top of the stroke, but once the fork is activated it is no longer an issue. The reminds me of my Marz forks of past, which disappeared after 10-15 hours of break in. The fork is super smooth out of the box, and everything is as expected after 2 rides. No sloppy bushings, no creaks or noises to speak of. I have not measured the oil in the damper since I will be disassembling the fork in a few weeks, but I can get full travel by weighting the front of the bike and bouncing on the fork. It does ramp up nicely as well. The coil side had maybe 5ml of oil, so I put in 75mls to hold me over for a few weeks.

    The Chili now weighs 33lb 6oz, which is incredible considering it is full coil, and a sensible build. The day one ride was up Kiwanis, down Geronimo to Cochise. For those that were here for Knollfest, you know this trail. Slower, techy, steep with a few tricky switchbacks. The fork performed very well here. It stayed higher in its travel which made the switchbacks a bit more difficult as my center of gravity was slightly higher. The higher ride height was much appreciated when hitting some of the larger hits as I had more available travel. Overall, I was pretty happy with the fork on this type of trail.

    Today's ride was up Kiwanis, down Holbert. I ride Holbert at least once a week, so I know this trail well. Unlike Cochise, this is a much faster trail with lots of square edge hits. I was not quite as impressed with the fork here. Clearly, the Lyrik with Avy is much better at higher speeds and square hits. It seems as though the HSC is a bit harsh. Not enough to be bad, but certainly not Avy good. The 55 performed well, especially for a stock fork, but it can't compete with Craig's magic. Obviously there are some setup changes which may make the 55 feel better in stock mode, but I would not expect them to be as dramatic as the change to an Avy. Another thing I was rather disappointed in with the 55 is the rebound. if feels average at best, meaning one click seemed to fast, the next to slow. Nothing that I couldn't easily adjust to over time though.

    Overall, pretty impressed by what the 55 is, but I would still take the Lyrik/Avy combo over this in stock form, shocker I know. However, this fork with an Avy....could be a game changer. I'll find out in a couple of weeks.

    Pretty fork

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  2. #2
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    Nice Review.

    Riding the Chunk Monkey now? That rear looks almost destroyed already. Inexpensive tire though. BTW just got back from Whistler and some folks were on the newest 888 and loving it.
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    Nice looking fork Brandon. Glad you're liking it so far.

    I'm digging your old avy'd lyric. I've had kind of the opposite experience at least comparing it to the Float. The Lyric is brilliant in slower Cochise/goat camp type tech but I've found the rebound a bit too slow for high speed chunk.

    Is it externally adjustable at all or is it preset internally?
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    Does it handle better than the last Zoke you had?

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    Quote Originally Posted by KRob View Post
    Nice looking fork Brandon. Glad you're liking it so far.

    I'm digging your old avy'd lyric. I've had kind of the opposite experience at least comparing it to the Float. The Lyric is brilliant in slower Cochise/goat camp type tech but I've found the rebound a bit too slow for high speed chunk.

    Is it externally adjustable at all or is it preset internally?
    Hey Kent,

    Glad the fork is working out for you. The rebound is adjustable with a flat head screwdriver on the top of the fork (the gold top piece). The LSC is also adjustable at the bottom of the fork, you will need a small screwdriver for that. I prefer a slower rebound, so it is not a surprise that the stock setting may feel a bit slow. There are 22 clicks of rebound, and it is set in the middle, so you should be able to find a suitable setting.
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    Quote Originally Posted by wheatgerm View Post
    Does it handle better than the last Zoke you had?
    The A2C on this fork is only 1mm taller than the Lyrik, and I don't notice the offset as much. This is probably due to the more flexible setup of the Chili, where the gen 1 Endo was maxed out with a 160 fork, so the offset and 3 or 4mm taller A2C was noticeable.

    The V2 damper feels better than the original RC3 damper in the 2010 model I had. It's been a while since I have ridden the Lyrik with the stock damper, but my guess is that I would prefer the 55 over the Lyrik. My guess is that this fork is going to feel great with the Avy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rdhfreethought View Post
    Nice Review.

    Riding the Chunk Monkey now? That rear looks almost destroyed already. Inexpensive tire though. BTW just got back from Whistler and some folks were on the newest 888 and loving it.
    The CMs have been great, they are the original set I put on back in April. The front is still in excellent condition, I expect at least another 4 months from it, and the rear is just about toast, but traction remains excellent. I suspect the tire will die soon of a major carcass puncture since there are no knobs to protect it. 4 months from a rear tire here is excellent,. I normally see 2-3 months before a tire is done.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiSS'er View Post
    The A2C on this fork is only 1mm taller than the Lyrik, and I don't notice the offset as much. This is probably due to the more flexible setup of the Chili, where the gen 1 Endo was maxed out with a 160 fork, so the offset and 3 or 4mm taller A2C was noticeable.

    The V2 damper feels better than the original RC3 damper in the 2010 model I had. It's been a while since I have ridden the Lyrik with the stock damper, but my guess is that I would prefer the 55 over the Lyrik. My guess is that this fork is going to feel great with the Avy.
    Did you have the RC2DH Lyrik?

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    Quote Originally Posted by mayha View Post
    Did you have the RC2DH Lyrik?
    Yep, prior to changing out to the Avy.

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    Always appreciate your reviews. Look forward to the follow up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KRob View Post
    Nice looking fork Brandon. Glad you're liking it so far.

    I'm digging your old avy'd lyric. I've had kind of the opposite experience at least comparing it to the Float. The Lyric is brilliant in slower Cochise/goat camp type tech but I've found the rebound a bit too slow for high speed chunk.

    Is it externally adjustable at all or is it preset internally?
    i'd be surprised myself if you can get any appreciable change in the high speed rebound action. Avalanche's cartridges are adjustable externally by the rider for low speed action, the high speed action is as you might have suspected, handled by the preset valves that you can change if you take them out & reshim.

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    Very nice!

    Were you not able to find the parts to convert the Lyrik from air to coil or did you want to try something different?

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    Quote Originally Posted by nybike1971 View Post
    Very nice!

    Were you not able to find the parts to convert the Lyrik from air to coil or did you want to try something different?
    Thanks Luca. I was able to find the parts through one of LBSs, but the total cost, including have Craig re-shim the damper, would have been about $350. For about $100 more I got a new fork, and one in which I have wanted to try for a while. Craig had high praises for the 55. I was highly concerned about the spring rate, especially since there are no other spring options. We all know how the air preload degrades the performance, but Craig told me the new, heavier spring is perfect for about 200lb riders (my RTR weight), and he was right. Only a few clicks of preload gets me 25% sag, the small bump performance s excellent. I expect it will get better once everything breaks in and after I replace the damper with the Avy.

    Honestly, I had sellers remorse when selling the Lyrik. After a few rides with the 55, I think I will be OK. Both rides this weekend would have been better on the Lyrik, however I suspect the 55 will be as good as the Lyrik, with the advantage of Marzocchi's legendary coil feel. I am still concerned about the long term reliability if the fork as I had an 08 66 that was troublesome. Amazing how long that sticks with you.

    Its been a long time since I have ridden a coil fork, and it feels rather unique. I do like the mid stroke of the coil, works well with my Chili setup.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiSS'er View Post
    Hey Kent,

    Glad the fork is working out for you. The rebound is adjustable with a flat head screwdriver on the top of the fork (the gold top piece). The LSC is also adjustable at the bottom of the fork, you will need a small screwdriver for that. I prefer a slower rebound, so it is not a surprise that the stock setting may feel a bit slow. There are 22 clicks of rebound, and it is set in the middle, so you should be able to find a suitable setting.
    Oh ok. Thanks. I thought that was the compression. No wonder changing that had no effect on compression.

    So is the compression adjustment screw up inside the red nut on the bottom of the right fork leg?
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    I'm surprised one of the avy adopters went with a non avy fork. is the plan to put a cartridge in the 55 as well?

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    Quote Originally Posted by KRob View Post
    Oh ok. Thanks. I thought that was the compression. No wonder changing that had no effect on compression.

    So is the compression adjustment screw up inside the red nut on the bottom of the right fork leg?
    That is correct. You need a smaller screwdriver to get up in there. I had the LSC compression (HSC is preset by Craig) and rebound set right in the middle, which is how Craig specs it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by honns View Post
    I'm surprised one of the avy adopters went with a non avy fork. is the plan to put a cartridge in the 55 as well?
    Of course, I ordered it right after I purchased the fork Craig is a bit backed up right now, so it will take a few more days before I get it. Not a chance I am riding a non-Avy'd fork or shock on the Chili.
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by nhodge View Post
    i'd be surprised myself if you can get any appreciable change in the high speed rebound action. Avalanche's cartridges are adjustable externally by the rider for low speed action, the high speed action is as you might have suspected, handled by the preset valves that you can change if you take them out & reshim.
    Either I ride really slowly or I think 1 or 2 clicks out on the LSR will be a world of difference for KRob. On my 66 the trail went from bumpy to smooth with just 2 clicks. I was amazed. Until then, I had never had a fork change so much with only a slight adjustment.

    Quote Originally Posted by KRob View Post
    Oh ok. Thanks. I thought that was the compression. No wonder changing that had no effect on compression.

    So is the compression adjustment screw up inside the red nut on the bottom of the right fork leg?
    LSC is on the bottom. LSR is on the top. I learned this the hard way. I'm used to rebound being on the bottom.
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    Nice fork. Was wondering have you ever tried the bos deville? I have one and was curious as to how it performs to the forks you've used.

    Anyway i'll be sending my 180mm fox talas to get the avy cartridge soon. Once on the chilli I hope it's going to be beastly!

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    Quote Originally Posted by tom34 View Post
    Nice fork. Was wondering have you ever tried the bos deville?
    I have never tried a BOS product. You won't be disappointed with Craig's work.
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    Nice Brandon. I do like your graphics more than mine.

    One thing I'd recommend, is to zip tie your front brake cable to the arch somehow. On mine, it rubbed some of the paint off the left side of arch from movement.

    Look forward to hearing what you think when the Avy is installed. Remember when you rebuild it to take out the foam rings under the seals if it has them.
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    Tom I had a deville and a 2011 55 RC3 ti on my chilcotin. Obviously deville is a lot lighter and the best feeling air fork I've owned (have had several 36s and a lyrik rc3 dh). 55 plusher and better suited to hard charging.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wilks View Post
    Tom I had a deville and a 2011 55 RC3 ti on my chilcotin. Obviously deville is a lot lighter and the best feeling air fork I've owned (have had several 36s and a lyrik rc3 dh). 55 plusher and better suited to hard charging.
    i see you have your chili up for sale. what are you riding now?

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    Sorry for thread derailment. I am on a Mach 5.7c that I got for cost. Chilcotin was just too much bike for me and at 5'11" I got a medium which has always felt a little too small. I was going to pull the trigger on an Endo once the Chili sells but now am intrigued by the Warden.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wilks View Post
    Sorry for thread derailment. I am on a Mach 5.7c that I got for cost. Chilcotin was just too much bike for me and at 5'11" I got a medium which has always felt a little too small. I was going to pull the trigger on an Endo once the Chili sells but now am intrigued by the Warden.
    EXACTLY my situation! Pm me when you come to conclusion please

  26. #26
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    YUM!

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    Got installed tonight and I can feel an immediate difference just bouncing around on it. The fork feels smoother, and less spikey as I come toward the end of the travel. Install is rather simple if you are comfortable with working on forks, if not, I suggest sending it in to Craig.

    More to come after some mileage.
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    I am on a avy lyrik 170 coil. Not the same as a 55 but it is the most fun fork I have ever owned. I got the AM tune from craig for my chili. Riding bike park is where I notice the fork the most, most notably for me are areas of high speed chatter and also low speed technical rock gardens.

    I'm curious to hear your opinions as your coming off an avy air lyrik and a stock 170 55. Have fun man. I think you're gonna dig it. Haha.

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    Nice, can't wait to hear your thoughts after some ride time.
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    Hey tiSS'er,

    Any thoughts on your 55/AVA set-up, especially compared to Lyrik/AVA?
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    Quote Originally Posted by BikeBert View Post
    Hey tiSS'er,

    Any thoughts on your 55/AVA set-up, especially compared to Lyrik/AVA?
    Hey BB,

    I have reserved writing a report because, well...I have been less than impressed with the 55. I have struggled with the fork setup. Much of it is due to the fact that I was setting up as I would the Lyrik SoloAir, rather than using a more coil based setup.

    I have just completed a 4 day run in Moab which is similar terrain to Phoenix, but has much longer, faster, and flowier descents, and good technical climbs. Climbing has never been an issue with the 55, I have not noticed and difference in how I climb. Descending has been the overall issue. The fork is a bit more compliant on the small stuff due to the coil, and it ramps up more/sooner than the Lyrik. I initially found that I would use less travel on certain rides that I would comfortably use full travel on the Lyrik. I spent some time playing with the fork and even sent an email to Craig because the fork overall felt harsh on square hits, where the Lyrik just made them disappear.

    I decided to go back to square one and start with fresh settings. What I was able to determine is that I was running too much coil preload. Per standard setup I went with 25% sag fully geared in the aggressive position. This was causing an issue as we have just as many voids or undulations in our terrain where the tire need to drop into a depression. With the sag where it was, I had too little travel to effectively lower the front tire into the depression and absorb it. This caused a fair amount of harshness in my rides, and it transfers to the bar. I now run about 33% sag and the fork feels much better. Is it a game changer? Not really. I'm getting used to it and the fork is still breaking in, even after all this time. The seals are super tight, and the nickel coating is super smooth which I believe is causing the slower than normal break-in. I also have determined that the coil is a bit more consistent in its compression and rebound feel. I am actually running less rebound than I would normally with the Lyrik, which has lead me to run less rebound on the Woodie. This overall makes for a more lively bike which is more fun to play with.
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  31. #31
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    Thanks for the report. Have been considering doing the AVA to my Van36 for awhile. Since I got my Endo the Chilly has been more of a dedicated park bike so I may hold off until next season.
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    New question here. Ava -> bos

    Hey tiSS'er,

    Thank you for the review. This is interesting what you found out about coil 55. I bet you're already thinking about making yet another switch
    Listen, you introduced me to the wonderful AVA world, so I made the switch from BOS and I'm pretty happy. So maybe I can talk you into switching to BOS, e.g. BOS Idylle SC. This fork seems to be perfect for the kind of riding you do. I'm sure you won't be disappointed. And I would love to read your review about the BOS.

    I just did a write-up on my previous fork that I owned for 2 years - BOS Deville. It's in Polish but Google Translate does a pretty good job, see HERE.

    Well, I already know my next fork will be BOS again.
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    Hey guys,

    Just got home from Moab, I'm sorry I didn't realize my entire write up was not posted, and it may have confused you a bit. Overall, I am very happy with the fork after I have reset it started anew.

    First, when I mentioned a "game changer" above, I was referring to the Avy Lyrik vs the Avy 55 (not the Avy cartridge itself, you guys know where I stand with Avy products). I don't see a huge difference between the 2 forks, only subtle ones. The 55 does support me better, it uses less travel in most situations and no longer feels harsh. Our last ride in Moab was Porcupine Rim. Many have ridden it and know the trail well. It is a mishmash of low speed stuff, some buff single track, high speed singletrack, and the jeep road is both fast and chunky at the same time. I really dug the fork and bike on Porc. I was faster than ever, the trail was smoothed out by the suspension better than ever. After 3 previous hard days of riding, I would have expected to suffer a bit on this trail, but not so. After pushing the trail faster that I ever have, I had absolutely no signs of arm pump, fatigue of the hands, shoulders, or back. Usually when I would push really hard on the Jeep section, I would just get beat up and sore. Not so after the ride this week.

    I think I now have the fork sitting where it should, it rides great and in general disappears beneath me. Now, would I buy another Avy'd 55 to replace an Avy'd Lyrik? Nope. There just isn't enough of a difference for me to justify the expense. Am I glad I did the upgrade? Yep. I think the fork answers the few issues I had with the Lyrik, although having it's own downfalls. If I loose too much weight, spring weight will be an issue, it's about .75lbs heavier, and I have a hard time getting the last 1/2 inch of travel, though Craig said that would be the case. I did get a great ride in at home on the fork before heading to Moab and would give it a thumbs up locally as well.

    As for BOS stuff, no thanks. I have no interest in owning stuff I can't work or tinker on. I service my forks every 3 months and have little patience for limited availability or customer service. You'll have a hard time convincing me that an off the shelf product is as good as a custom product.

    Anyone on the fence about upgrading their current fork to an Avy, just read the reviews.
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    you check your PM lately?
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