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Lapierre Spicy 516 or Knolly Chilcotin

8K views 33 replies 13 participants last post by  cfrench 
#1 · (Edited)
Okay, time for me to do this, but a harder decision ive never made (not for along time anyway).

Ive spent two months researching bikes, specs, sizes, reviews and test rides. I wasnt in a hurry :D

..and in the process i've eliminated the following:

2013 Specialised Enduro Comp (got third place)
2013 Commencal Meta SX VIP (toptube too short in M)
2013 IBIS Mojo HD (too common and cant see how it would descend any better than the others)
2013 SC Nomad Carbon (toptube too short in M)

and the shortlist is now:

2013 Lapierre Spicy 516 or the 2013 Knolly Chilcotin (custom build)

price wise, i discovered the knolly would cost me a few hundred bucks more but the build would all be parts i wanted. so price is not problem.

Both the Spicy and the Chilcotin tick all my boxes and are both an exact size match for me, and coincidentaly but not suprisingly, in a Medium size, their geo is almost identical.

My riding varies alot. Some trail centre riding, some off piste light freeride, bike park grade downhill tracks and the infamous Fort William DH world cup track. So, needless to say the bike has to be an all rounder, and TOUGH.

So any thoughts on how to go forward as ive demo'd the spicy but there is nowehere in Scotland to demo the Chilcotin.
 
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#2 ·
Okay, time for me to do this, but a harder decision ive never made (not for along time anyway).

Ive spent two months researching bikes, specs, sizes, reviews and test rides. I wasnt in a hurry :D

..and in the process i've eliminated the following:

2013 Specialised Enduro Comp (got third place)
2013 Commencal Meta SX VIP (toptube too short in M)
2013 IBIS Mojo HD (too common and cant see how it would descend any better than the others)
2013 SC Nomad Carbon (seat tube too long in M)

and the shortlist is now:

2013 Lapierre Spicy 516 or the 2013 Knolly Chilcotin (custom build)

price wise, i discovered the knolly would cost me a few hundred bucks more but the build would all be parts i wanted. so price is not problem.

Both the Spicy and the Chilcotin tick all my boxes and are both an exact size match for me, and coincidentaly but not suprisingly, in a Medium size, their geo is almost identical.

My riding varies alot. Some trail centre riding, some off piste light freeride, bike park grade downhill tracks and the infamous Fort William DH world cup track. So, needless to say the bike has to be an all rounder, and TOUGH.

So any thoughts on how to go forward as ive demo'd the spicy but there is nowehere in Scotland to demo the Chilcotin.
I can't comment on the Spicy, I've never seen one, or even looked at their bikes. It seems as though you have done a bunch of research, and I would go with your gut feeling. I personally prefer to build my bikes as to be sure I get everything I want.

A quick glance and it seems the Spicy is a Horst Link bike which is nice. The 4x4 take it to another level. Incredible traction, responsiveness, and comfort. If you like the feel of the Horst Link bikes, you will definitely like the 4x4, as it does everything better.
 
#3 ·
Okay thats quite interesting. Is there anything youve seen that i could read that compares these two types of suspensions with respect to the type of riding i'll be doing? or is this opinion based on riding other horst link type bikes?

I guess i have only one other thing to determine...spare parts: The lapierre is an easy one over here (with France next door and only using 4 standard bearings). The Chilcotin however uses alot of bearings. Theres also the issue of breaking long non-3D rocker bolts.

Say I was to buy the 3D rocker when it comes out and a full set of spare bearings (im planning to keep this bike for 3 years min)...how much is this going to cost and who are the main dealers of these parts.

Incidently, this is the mother of all builds i am considering:

Frame 2013 Knolly Chil-co-tin (Medium) with RP23
Forks 2013 Lyrik RC2DH Solo Air 170mm (Post Disk Mount)
Headset 2013 Cane Creek 40 Inset lower cup (1.5 to 1/1/8)
Saddle 2013 WTB Silverado Team Saddle Ti rails
Brakes 2013 Shimano XT M780 180mm F&R (Frame IS Mount)
Chainset 2013 Race Face Turbine 10 Speed (24-36) 170mm arms 73mm BB
Cassette 2013 Shimano XT M780 10 speed (11-36)
Shifters 2013 SRAM X0 10spd (Black with Red bits)
Rear Mech 2013 SRAM X0 Type 2 10spd Mid Cage (Black with Red bits)
Front Mech 2013 Shimano XT FD-M785-E2 (direct mount)
Chain 2013 KMC X10 SL 10 Speed
Grips 2013 Lizard Skins Northshore - Red Locking Collars
Bars 2013 Race Face SIXC (Red) 725 wide
Stem 2013 Race Face Atlas 65mm 1.1/8
Tyres 2013 Both Minion DHF 2.35
Wheels 2013 DT Swiss 5.1 / FR6.1 440hubs
Pedals 2013 Superstar Ultra Mag CNC Pedals (Black with Red Pins)
Seat Collar 2013 KCNC 34.9mm QR
Seatpost 2013 Easton EA70 Seatpost 31.6 x 350

28.4lbs :D

which will go upto 28.7 with a CCDB ;)
 
#5 ·
Okay, time for me to do this, but a harder decision ive never made (not for along time anyway).

Ive spent two months researching bikes, specs, sizes, reviews and test rides. I wasnt in a hurry :D

..and in the process i've eliminated the following:

2013 Specialised Enduro Comp (got third place)
2013 Commencal Meta SX VIP (toptube too short in M)
2013 IBIS Mojo HD (too common and cant see how it would descend any better than the others)
2013 SC Nomad Carbon (seat tube too long in M)

and the shortlist is now:

2013 Lapierre Spicy 516 or the 2013 Knolly Chilcotin (custom build)

price wise, i discovered the knolly would cost me a few hundred bucks more but the build would all be parts i wanted. so price is not problem.

Both the Spicy and the Chilcotin tick all my boxes and are both an exact size match for me, and coincidentaly but not suprisingly, in a Medium size, their geo is almost identical.

My riding varies alot. Some trail centre riding, some off piste light freeride, bike park grade downhill tracks and the infamous Fort William DH world cup track. So, needless to say the bike has to be an all rounder, and TOUGH.

So any thoughts on how to go forward as ive demo'd the spicy but there is nowehere in Scotland to demo the Chilcotin.
I demoed a Lapierre when I was in Wales and came away really impressed. Peddled well and controlled. I have only spent a few minutes on a knolly, and this was the old Endo. That had a more similar FSR type feel but felt solid. My feeling is that if you want TOUGH, the Knolly is your bike.
 
#6 ·
Yes they are both excellent bikes, no doubt about that. The lapierre with a CCDB is a formidable oponent.

It sounds the bearings might be a once in the bikes lifetime change (i.e. who keeps the same bike for more than 4-5 years, not many and not me), which takes that out of the equation. Also the lapierre is plenty tough, just look at the tubes where they connect to the headtube, its burly.
 
#8 ·
FWIW this is my medium chilcotin build:

Frame 2013 Knolly Chil-co-tin (Medium) with CCDB air
Forks 2013 Fox Float 160mm
Headset 2013 Cane Creek 40 Inset lower cup (1.5 to 1/1/8)
Saddle WTB
Brakes Shimano XTR 180mm F&R (Frame IS Mount)
Chainset Shimano SLX (24-36) 175mm arms 73mm BB
Cassette SRAM XG1080 10 speed (11-36)
Shifters SRAM X0 10spd
Rear Mech SRAM X0 Type 2 10spd Mid Cage
Front Mech 2013 Shimano XTR F-E2 (direct mount)
Chain KMC X10 SL 10 Speed
Grips Lizard Skins
Bars Analog Carbon
Stem Thomson 70mm
Tyres Schwalbe Hans Dampf (front) Nobby Nic (rear)
Wheels Industry 9 w DT 5.1rims
Pedals Point one podium
Seat Collar Thomson
Seatpost KS I950

Bike weight is 31.2LBS
 
#10 ·
nice one, very similar, your chainset tyres cassette are heavier than what i put above, and these are where id always try to save weight first. most people miss the cassette because its not bling. probably alot of your other parts are 5, 10g less here and there and dont make much difference to weight.
 
#11 ·
On the subject of tires, remember the 2.35 single ply DHF, is tiny (measures around 2.15) and for the weight, just so-so for durability. For the Chilcotin a 2.5 Maxxis, or 2.35-2.4 Continental/Schwalbe, would be my preferred choice. If you are doing more trail riding, you may find a High Roller in the rear is a better tire.

Either way you shouldnt have too much trouble getting to 30 lbs, if you shave grams here and there. Mine was 29lbs with the Hans Dampf, 30 and 8 oz with a dropper post (Large raw frame). Make sure you post it up when finished!
 
#12 ·
29-30lb is as low a bike of this type needs to be to climb well enough. So no problems there.

Fully agree with your tyre choice, ive also found that two really great rear tyres for our 'stoney' terrain and year round mixed weather conditions are the Ardent and the Rampage by Panaracer, both have worked flawlessly for me. The ardent is the lightest of the two, but the Panaracer Rampage is one tough piece of rubber. I had two of them for 2 years and still managed to sell them on ebay with almost full tread on them. The new version of the Rampage with the puncture resistance must be great.
 
#14 ·
I can't give you a direct comparison for the Chilcotin and the spicy but I do own a 2010 Delirium and have ridden a Spicy and a Froggy on some of the same trails.

I thought both Lappieres rode very well with the Froggy being more of a match to the Delirium for the downhill but couldn't climb anywhere near as well as the Knolly. the spicy felt good but lacked the solid feeling of the other two and whilst it felt quite lively I still feel the Delirium climbs better in terms of overall grip.

I was debating on getting a lighter bike awhile ago and the only bike I think I'd get is the Chilcotin, I haven't ridden one but am on my second Knolly and am pretty much stuck to the brand now, everything else I try just isn't quite as good....

Oh yeah, as for spares, Knolly UK have proved pretty good for me in the past, I got a full bearing/bolt set in a little over a week shipped over from Canada, just to have as a back up, although after two and a half years of riding the Delirium the original bearings are in perfect condition and i haven't had to replace a single one.
 
#21 ·
I thought both Lappieres rode very well with the Froggy being more of a match to the Delirium for the downhill but couldn't climb anywhere near as well as the Knolly. the spicy felt good but lacked the solid feeling of the other two and whilst it felt quite lively I still feel the Delirium climbs better in terms of overall grip.

Oh yeah, as for spares, Knolly UK have proved pretty good for me in the past, I got a full bearing/bolt set in a little over a week shipped over from Canada, just to have as a back up, although after two and a half years of riding the Delirium the original bearings are in perfect condition and i haven't had to replace a single one.
The froggy is a poor climber. Ive rode one of the too. Its not in the same league as the zesty and spicy for sure.

How much did the bearing bolt set cost then?
 
#17 ·
@frenchcr, I´ve tested 2011/2012 Spicies and well as Zesties several days in Alps, equipped mostly by Fox suspensions. Have Chilly now and owned few horst-link frames before Knolly, inclucing one Nicolai. Here`s my 2cents; Lapierres are one of those best horst-link frames available, no question. I´ll prefer their suspension action far better than any Specialized or Trek. Liteville is only one hl-frame in same category I´ve tested, imo.

My option was Chilly. If only comparing suspension behaviour, Lapierres and Knollys are totally different. Using good enough fork / shock tuned not only by frame, but also by rider, you can build both working fine. Still they are different; there`s no such an shock or tune, which can mimic perfectly activity 4x4 offers - linkage ratio curve in the latter third of travel makes the difference- `pierres are more "easy" and somehow lazy.... I´m not saying which is better, it`s all about personal preferences.

And do not worry about (too) many linkage pivots or too long bolts there. Pivots and bearings in my chilly are now, after 15 months and >600 riding hours like new ones, within same period I renewed all bearings to my handmade German boutique-frame 3 times. And there are not many snapped Knolly frames, but I´ve seen two Spicy-frames (one carbon 916 and one al-frame, probably 516?) snapping during the ride, in real life.

btw: your build seems to be nice, but are you sure about calculated weight? But pick DB Air instead of RP23 :thumbsup:
 
#18 · (Edited)
frenchcr, John at Knolly UK had some demo bikes, might be worth giving him a ring. The Chili is my second Knolly and I have had no reliability problems with either. The finish and build quality is very good and up there with the best. The distributor is also very helpful.

Like you I prefer HL bikes and I have owned several Nicolai's in the past. Knolly and Nicolai both ride really nice. For me I would have short listed the Nicolai Ion 16 or Liteville 601 Mk2 as possible alternatives to the Chilcotin, but I'm not sure that I would swap. I really like the feel of the 4 x 4 when it's set up with a really good shock.
 
#20 · (Edited)
the loamranger :D . I did email John too but hes only got a large on demo at the moment.

When you read the... Knolly Chilcotin: Build Information, Photos and Set-up Thread ....is clear as day that the CCDB Air is well worth the money. Lots of mention of Avalanche aswell but i couldnt see how that would be a viable option after shipping and import tax. Nevertheless, we have Bos with their Vipr and 170mm Deville combo, which on the Chilcotin results in a light and stiff setup....also surf sales in the uk is going to start distributing BOS / servicing them this month. Ultimately the jurys still out for me on a forks shock combo i'd have to ride both of the above for a couple of weeks...proof is in the pudding...

Where in the UK have you been riding the Chili ??
 
#23 ·
this is another great euro bike (well, its german to be specific) to feast your eyes on folks on the westside of the pond:

2013 Dirt 100: YT Wicked 160 TLD

awesome, but just not my thing this time round.

As an update on my minds eye with regard to the original question, the scales have tipped 60 / 40 towards the Chilcotin.

Can someone explain what a really active suspension is when its at home? and how it changes the ride characteristics?
 
#28 ·
The Uk importer has a Chilcotin demo. I guess if you want to ride it, then Sheffield isn't insurmountable a distance.

The latest 2 years of Soicy and Zesty models are designed by Nico Voilloz, the greatest downhiller and enduro racer of all time (and the man responsible for making the bos deville the fork it is) and the bikes get consistently high review grades in the UK and across Europe. They ride fantastically well. The suspension uses the horst link and upper link in the same way Nicholai does, as opposed to how it works on the Specialized. Kalle Nicholia worked under Horst Leitner on the original AMP bikes and knows his onions as they say. Lapierre will no doubt hit the north american market when Specialized's grasp on the horst link patent ends in april.
 
#32 ·
These are my sentiments exactly, its the customisation that led to the Chilcotin. In theory the Chili suspension should be more superior to the Spicy. The Lapierres are still great bikes, theres no mistaking that.

In the process I also learned to respect specialised for what they do. Their enduros are totally dialled in. I test rode one and adored it.

But for me the 'build your own' Chili was easy to go with as there have been so many great deals for parts on the web over the last 6 weeks.

I'll post it up in the build thread in the next couple of weeks :)
 
#31 · (Edited)
The End.

I bought my Knolly Chilcotin frame today, it arrives Friday. It will be a Medium in Raw. Cant wait!

To close this post, in the end i rated them like this:

  1. Knolly Chilcotin (beautiful solid reliable dialled suspension with just the right sizing/geometry for both myself and the bigger stuff in the UK. With 170mm Marzocchi's it will be plenty tough enough for trips to Fort William).
  2. Specialised Enduro (great bike nothing to fault, just didnt want the red paint job on the model i liked - Enduro comp)..was slightly put off by specialised own parts on there.
  3. Lapierre Spicy 516 (i still want one of these bikes but i just wouldnt buy one with CTD suspension and 34 forks...i like way they built it up last year...although this years geometry tweaks make it an even better bike...if only they sold the frame on its own. This is the bike to watch out for in the future).
  4. Banshee Rune v2 (hasnt been around long enough to know enough about ride/durability)
  5. Yeti SB-66 (not big mountain enough, 150 forks too short, the switch suspension system is clever though)
  6. IBIS Mojo HD (looks are not everything but this bike is just plain ugly, i just cant see how it would descent any better than any of the above either)
  7. Commencal Meta SX (toptube too short in M, frame very compact, which is a shame as it would have ended up higher in the list)
  8. SC Nomad Carbon (dont like VPP suspension, had an Intense Tracer in the past, we didnt get on)

Its taken me 3 months to put this list in this order!
 
#33 ·
Good work on getting the Knolly frenchcr! I'd be very keen to see your thoughts on the chilli once its built up.
I'm constantly toying with the idea of getting a chilcotin to replace my delirium and was wondering what sort of deal you got the frame for? if knolly uk are doing deals i may be tempted.
Also what shock have you got on the new frame? I'm running a ccdba on my delirium and am pretty blown away by it's performance for an 'air shock' it'd be my first choice of shock for the chilli.
cheers
 
#34 ·
I bought mine with an rp23 as it was on sale...its not a long term solution as I'll upgrade it later with a coil shock and keep the rp23 as a spare (for when either the coil is getting serviced or when I need only a lightweight shock on). At the discounted price this was the best option for me.

The frame is awesome in the flesh. Pull the trigger!
 
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