Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 40
  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    224

    Knolly warden or ibis hdr 650b?

    I have a chilcotin which I love but i've built it heavy and intend to make it heavier with a 180mm up front. Reason being is cause I really like it's capability downhill.

    Issue is cause it's so heavy now I'm thinking of building a lighter bike that goes faster especially the technical uphills I have where I live.

    Because I want to build it light and fast i'm thinking of the ibis hdr 650b cause it's in carbon. Also cause i'm interested in what 27.5 wheels will be like.

    So what do you guys think? Anybody have experience on the mojo and can compare?

  2. #2
    mtbr member
    Reputation: cfrench's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    956
    Quote Originally Posted by tom34 View Post
    I have a chilcotin which I love but i've built it heavy and intend to make it heavier with a 180mm up front. Reason being is cause I really like it's capability downhill.

    Issue is cause it's so heavy now I'm thinking of building a lighter bike that goes faster especially the technical uphills I have where I live.

    Because I want to build it light and fast i'm thinking of the ibis hdr 650b cause it's in carbon. Also cause i'm interested in what 27.5 wheels will be like.

    So what do you guys think? Anybody have experience on the mojo and can compare?
    Endorphin
    2013 Knolly Endorphin | 2013 Knolly Chilcotin | 2014 Knolly Podium.
    Tweed Valley, Scotland.

  3. #3
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    224
    lol yeah I was thinking of that actually. Though I was thinking that a carbon frame may have different characteristics and also the 27.5 wheels.

    Concern with endorphin would be that it's experience might be too similar to the chilcotin even if the builds are completely different.

  4. #4
    mtbr member
    Reputation: cfrench's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    956
    Quote Originally Posted by tom34 View Post
    lol yeah I was thinking of that actually. Though I was thinking that a carbon frame may have different characteristics and also the 27.5 wheels.

    Concern with endorphin would be that it's experience might be too similar to the chilcotin even if the builds are completely different.
    if you build the chili to 33lbs....then build an endo to 27lb with 150 forks...then you have 2 different bikes...the endo has significantly better uphill ability, is faster on quick flowy trails, faster round tighter corners...best way to describe it is 'like a sporty chili' or a 'tough trail bike' or 'AM-light bike'...I love mine I think its really quick.

    im waiting for the next knolly (to replace my endo with)....its most likely to be a 130mm travel frame 650b specific (maybe carbon) ....id put the new BOS deville am 140mm 650b on it: Detail: Bos Mountain Bike Suspension

    ive sat on an mojo hdr and thought it was too compact, instantly thought of 'sore back syndrome'. the size up had too long a seat tube. it didn't look like it would last as long as a knolly either.
    2013 Knolly Endorphin | 2013 Knolly Chilcotin | 2014 Knolly Podium.
    Tweed Valley, Scotland.

  5. #5
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    224
    Quote Originally Posted by cfrench View Post
    if you build the chili to 33lbs....then build an endo to 27lb with 150 forks...then you have 2 different bikes...the endo has significantly better uphill ability, is faster on quick flowy trails, faster round tighter corners..its like a sporty chili

    im waiting for the next knolly (to replace the endo with)....its most likely to be a 130mm travel frame 650b specific (maybe carbon) ....id put these on it: Detail: Bos Mountain Bike Suspension
    Ok that's interesting. I was of the thinking that the endo and chilli were quite similar.

    I have the 160mm deville on the chilli at the moment. Very very good fork.

    Is knolly coming out with another new frame?

  6. #6
    mtbr member
    Reputation: cfrench's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    956
    tom I was still editing there...see revised post above.

    rumour is that the next frame is a year or two away...and what ive said above seems to be the most popular 'forecast' of whats going to materialise.

    nobody knows except noel...but i suspect/hope its going to be '5010c' challenger...
    2013 Knolly Endorphin | 2013 Knolly Chilcotin | 2014 Knolly Podium.
    Tweed Valley, Scotland.

  7. #7
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    224
    Quote Originally Posted by cfrench View Post
    tom I was still editing there...see revised post above.

    rumour is that the next frame is a year or two away...and what ive said above seems to be the most popular 'forecast' of whats going to materialise.
    Interesting. So you think this new model will be faster than the endo you have now?

    If so I may wait for it.

    I just want a really fast bike to compliment the heavy chilli I have.

  8. #8
    mtbr member
    Reputation: cfrench's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    956
    Quote Originally Posted by tom34 View Post
    Interesting. So you think this new model will be faster than the endo you have now?
    it has to be or I cant see a purpose for it....the gap has been closed between the chili and the endo by the warden...so unless they do a revised endo in carbon...then its got to be a 5010c challenger imo. the reason I bought the endo (I got the chili before it) instead of the 5010c was due to cost...I got the endo in the last 'knolly sale out'...it was half the price of the solo...26' bits were much cheaper, with more choices, and lighter too.
    2013 Knolly Endorphin | 2013 Knolly Chilcotin | 2014 Knolly Podium.
    Tweed Valley, Scotland.

  9. #9
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    224
    Quote Originally Posted by cfrench View Post
    it has to be or I cant see a purpose for it....the gap has been closed between the chili and the endo by the warden...so unless they do a revised endo in carbon...then its got to be a 5010c challenger imo.
    Damn that would be a very interesting bike. I think you've sold me. I may wait for that model then. I've had vpp and dw-link bikes in the past and yes the 4x4 is superior so I think it'll be a worthy bike to wait for. I hope it comes sooner and in carbon.

  10. #10
    mtbr member
    Reputation: cfrench's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    956
    probably wait two years though...carbon would be excellent...
    2013 Knolly Endorphin | 2013 Knolly Chilcotin | 2014 Knolly Podium.
    Tweed Valley, Scotland.

  11. #11
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    224
    Quote Originally Posted by cfrench View Post
    probably wait two years though...carbon would be excellent...
    I see. If that's the case then how would you rate the 5010c?

  12. #12
    mtbr member
    Reputation: cfrench's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    956
    not trying to sell anything tom, ive done a lot thinking about what bikes to buy though, ive built 3 knollys this year, and the choice to go down the warden route or not has been difficult to say the least, I considered selling the chili to get one.

    but im sticking with the original trifecta and will sell the endo to get the above mentioned bike if it materialises...
    2013 Knolly Endorphin | 2013 Knolly Chilcotin | 2014 Knolly Podium.
    Tweed Valley, Scotland.

  13. #13
    mtbr member
    Reputation: cfrench's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    956
    Quote Originally Posted by tom34 View Post
    I see. If that's the case then how would you rate the 5010c?
    Ive owned/rode 4 vpp bikes (intense tracer, intense uzzi, sc blur tr, sc Bronson) but haven't rode the Solo...it was impossible to get one here after the naming fiasco...all four bikes were great...so im sure id love a solo.

    but the cost is ridiculous when you factor in the premium for the carbon model and the premium for 650b parts...

    i think the best deal from a financial perspective is to buy a second hand endo...and lo and behold TiSSer is selling his
    Last edited by cfrench; 12-28-2013 at 09:56 AM.
    2013 Knolly Endorphin | 2013 Knolly Chilcotin | 2014 Knolly Podium.
    Tweed Valley, Scotland.

  14. #14
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    224
    Quote Originally Posted by cfrench View Post
    not trying to sell anything tom, ive done a lot thinking about what bikes to buy though, ive built 3 knollys this year, and the choice to go down the warden route or not has been difficult to say the least, I considered selling the chili to get one.

    but im sticking with the original trifecta and will sell the endo to get the above mentioned bike if it materialises...
    Not at all I appreciate the feedback. Having a look at the 5010c now...

    If knolly produces something similar it may not be for me. The bottom bracket is too low for where I ride.

  15. #15
    mtbr member
    Reputation: cfrench's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    956
    Mind...test ride before buying anything...one mans meat is another mans poison.
    2013 Knolly Endorphin | 2013 Knolly Chilcotin | 2014 Knolly Podium.
    Tweed Valley, Scotland.

  16. #16
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    224
    Quote Originally Posted by cfrench View Post
    Mind...test ride before buying anything...one mans meat is another mans poison.
    Issue is i'm in Sydney Australia. It's not easy to come by these bikes.

    Might give the endorphin a try. I like the thought of it being fast, nimble and a better climber.

    Just curious as to what aspects of the endo make it faster/nimbler and a better climber than the chilli?

  17. #17
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    224
    Quote Originally Posted by cfrench View Post
    Ive owned/rode 4 vpp bikes (intense tracer, intense uzzi, sc blur tr, sc Bronson) but haven't rode the Solo...it was impossible to get one here after the naming fiasco...all four bikes were great...so im sure id love a solo.

    but the cost is ridiculous when you factor in the premium for the carbon model and the premium for 650b parts...

    i think the best deal from a financial perspective is to buy a second hand endo...and lo and behold TiSSer is selling his
    Of all those bikes you've ever ridden...which is the fastest? And which would you say is the most fun?

  18. #18
    mtbr member
    Reputation: cfrench's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    956
    Its a weight thing for a start. The tighter head angle makes it really easy to throw round swoopy stuff, it rails , and on the maiden voyage I got to the top of my usually hill climb and realised I had made much easier work of it than on the chili. I was spinning away without thinking about it, that was what surprised me the most. To me it just feels a bit tighter and that manifests into power efficiency. On the way down it rides like the chili but its not nearly as forgiving (less travel to soak it up), you have to be more selective, but with speed its possible to do the same hard lines, think skipping over things due to speed, but this takes more skill, as you have less 'points of grip' on the trail.
    2013 Knolly Endorphin | 2013 Knolly Chilcotin | 2014 Knolly Podium.
    Tweed Valley, Scotland.

  19. #19
    mtbr member
    Reputation: cfrench's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    956
    Quote Originally Posted by tom34 View Post
    Of all those bikes you've ever ridden...which is the fastest? And which would you say is the most fun?
    I'd take the Endo over the Tracer, its more stable. I like the Endo better than the Blur, its just a better all round bike.

    The Chili / Bronson / Uzzi is tough to call. Ive owned an Uzzi (brilliant bike!) but like the Chili better for techy downhill (which is what I use it for). The Bronson is a great bike no doubt about it but I like the Chili 4x4 behaviours more than long travel vpp.

    The Endo is the fastest / most fun on its intended terrain (trail/am). I put a BOS Kirk shock on it and it feels very much like an AVA Woodie...
    2013 Knolly Endorphin | 2013 Knolly Chilcotin | 2014 Knolly Podium.
    Tweed Valley, Scotland.

  20. #20
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    224
    Quote Originally Posted by cfrench View Post
    I'd take the Endo over the Tracer, its more stable. I like the Endo better than the Blur, its just a better all round bike.

    The Chili / Bronson / Uzzi is tough to call. Ive owned an Uzzi (brilliant bike!) but like the Chili better for techy downhill (which is what I use it for). The Bronson is a great bike no doubt about it but I like the Chili 4x4 behaviours more than long travel vpp.

    The Endo is the fastest / most fun on its intended terrain (trail/am). I put a BOS Kirk shock on it and it feels like an AVA Woodie....

    On rough downhill terrain, the Chili cant be beaten by any other 160 bike on the market. Its a plow machine.

    Depends what type of riding you do though...
    Nice write up thanks.

    I love technical downhills and I also love speed in single track and uphills.

    I had an intense ss with the 180 fork on it and that thing was unbelievable plowing down. Unfortunately it could not climb(had like a really wobbly rear not sure if it's a bearings problem?). Anyway that's what i'm going to put on the chilli now, the 180 fork so that I can plough down. But that's where I miss out on the fast single track and uphills.

    So that's why I was thinking light and bigger wheels. At this stage i'm thinking maybe endo. I can use the existing deville fork 160mm and my ccdb air which is sitting around(got the titanium coil ccdb on the chilli at the moment).

    Could be a very good combo....light endo and a burly chilli

  21. #21
    mtbr member
    Reputation: cfrench's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    956
    id go 150 pike (im running 36 floats lowered to 150) with a bos kirk on the endo...that would increase the sporty feel compare to a 160 fork. im waiting for the next gen pike or a bos deville 150.

    Yeah, the slightly flexy rear end is exactly what I thought of the vpp bikes...that's why I say here that 'i like knollys because they are point and shoot stiff' ...we're definitively singing off the same hymn sheet here. I find knollys firmer under braking too.

    My Endo is 28lb...im hoping to take it down to 26.5lb in a years time (lighter wheels and forks). My Chili is 31.5lb with AVA Van 160s and CCDB coil, DH wheels and XX1. I feel like i've got plenty separation.
    2013 Knolly Endorphin | 2013 Knolly Chilcotin | 2014 Knolly Podium.
    Tweed Valley, Scotland.

  22. #22
    mtbr member
    Reputation: cfrench's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    956
    to expand on above...when I drop the Endo to 26.5lb...then we have a pattern here that tbh I didn't realise I was creating:

    26.5lb(Endo) + 5lb = 31.5lb(Chili) + 5lb = 36.5lb(the weight of my podium)...perfect trifecta separation...?
    2013 Knolly Endorphin | 2013 Knolly Chilcotin | 2014 Knolly Podium.
    Tweed Valley, Scotland.

  23. #23
    mtbr member
    Reputation: KRob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    9,985
    I agree with cfrench on this one. The Warden seems closer to the chili than the endo to me....especially as set up when I rode it.

    So if you want fast and snappy, think Endo. Or wait and see what Noel has up his sleeve. I, too , hope it's a carbon 27.5 Solo/Flux fighter.

    If you can't wait then I'd look at the 5010c, the Devinci Troy, or HDR if you must have carbon. Look at the flux, RM Thunderbolt or, better yet, a light build Warden if you're ok with alloy. I have no doubt pfarrell could get a Warden down around 26 lbs and feeling quite snappy.

  24. #24
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    185
    As another Chili and Endo owner, I agree with cfrench's assessment. My Endorphin is just over 26 lbs and is a completely different bike than the Chili at around 33 lbs. The Endorphin pedals better, and that is before you factor in the weight. The suspension geometry on the Endorphin is tuned differently and it is a more efficient pedaling bike than the Chili.

  25. #25
    mtbr member
    Reputation: vikb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    6,186
    Quote Originally Posted by tom34 View Post
    Because I want to build it light and fast i'm thinking of the ibis hdr 650b cause it's in carbon.
    I had assumed the new Ibis 650B was going to be my next MTB for a number of reasons until they released the specs and it was essentially a half-baked HD placeholder until Ibis recovers the expense of bringing the Ripley to market and can invest in some proper 650B moulds.

    Limited travel and tire clearance make it a non-starter for me and in a year or two when Ibis releases a purpose built 650B frame it will be hard to recoup the investment in a HDR.

    My buddy is an Ibis dealer and he said these exact things to me which is telling since he really digs Ibis in general.

    The SC Solo [can't bring myself to call it 5010!] looks great [assuming you want a shorter travel bike] except for the low BB. A bunch of my friends got new SC bikes with the 13.6" BB heights and they went from minimal pedal strikes to frequent pedal strikes with skinny pedals. It's bad enough some of them are considering shorter pedals which I think is crazy talk. Where I live the Solo just wouldn't be much fun.

    Two of the things that got me stoked about the Warden was the higher BB and great tire clearance.

    I plan to build it up on the light-side of things and if I don't keep my existing burly bike I'll get a 2nd wheelset with stouter rims and larger aggressive tires for a fast change between personalities.

    One other thing I'd add is I wouldn't wait too long for a new bike to come out. You never know if it will and when it does it could [like that HDR] end up being disappointing. Get the best bike that's available now or within your timeframe and future proof it by buying a wheel size that you know will transfer over to another likely frame in a year or two. That way you can swap parts and your only loss is the depreciation on the frame.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Davinci troy vs knolly warden
    By Starkhünd in forum Canadian Bikes
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 07-29-2014, 09:36 PM
  2. knolly WARDEN
    By RyeBokeh in forum Knolly
    Replies: 792
    Last Post: 07-10-2014, 09:49 AM
  3. Davinci troy vs knolly warden
    By Starkhünd in forum 27.5 - 650b
    Replies: 26
    Last Post: 05-17-2014, 08:55 AM
  4. Knolly chilcotin / warden
    By Webbstar 8 in forum All Mountain
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 01-02-2014, 03:07 PM
  5. Knolly Warden 650b
    By skidad in forum 27.5 - 650b
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 09-02-2013, 09:26 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •