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Thread: knolly WARDEN

  1. #1
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    knolly WARDEN

    looks like a knolly has sprouted some 650b legs. similar specs. to the chilcotin. via their facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Knolly-Bikes/38803056687

    [knolly WARDEN-1185042_10151542609861688_1512619598_n.jpg

    knolly WARDEN-1238987_10151542608736688_367016072_n.jpg

    knolly WARDEN-1240476_10151542605316688_1497132566_n.jpg
    Last edited by RyeBokeh; 08-28-2013 at 08:14 PM.

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    Yessssss

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    Nice! Seat angle?

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    travel? 150mm?
    looks nice, but as we like the chili, this shouldn't be surprising.

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    A geo chart would be really cool

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    Knolly warden

    Hmm... Snappy dune buggy like Endo or sure footed Rock Crawler like Chili?

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    The asylum has a new boss! Looking great, congrats Knolly. Any additional details on the geo? Shock size?

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    I really love those numbers... niiiiice bike...

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    First Look: Knolly Warden - Eurobike 2013 - Pinkbike

    Pinkbike just posted this up!

    It looks nice, although I'd never buy a 650b frame.

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    Where are the geo charts? I sure hope for a rather steep seat angle...

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    Let the "I ordered mine back in September and havent received it yet" threads begin!

  13. #13
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    Looks good. Looks like the perfect one bike solution.
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    Bonzoo... I'm guessing that based on Noels design evolution since the Delirium T (super slacked out STA) to the new chili, the STA will be similar to Endo and Chili, which is to say, very ridable even with a ton of Seatpost out...

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    Titatinium pivot hardware!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  16. #16
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    What are the frame weights of the Chili and Endo with a CTD shock? (Not sure the frame size for which the 6.75 lbs is quoted in the pic.)



    BTW, this is an engineering question as well as a weight weenie question (i.e. "don't worry about it" answers won't help).
    "sounds like you need to find a better mechanic..." -- Calhoun

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    I'm curious what the leverage curve does, wondering if it falls right in between the Endo and Chili? Not quite as snappy and efficient as the Endo, but more pedal friendly than the Chili...

    Great looking rig. I'm sure the wait list has already begun.
    If jackasses could fly this place would be an airport.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thefriar View Post
    Bonzoo... I'm guessing that based on Noels design evolution since the Delirium T (super slacked out STA) to the new chili, the STA will be similar to Endo and Chili, which is to say, very ridable even with a ton of Seatpost out...
    Ok... I will be at the Tri-Cycle booth on Saturday and ask them about the geometry.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by rscecil007 View Post
    I'm curious what the leverage curve does, wondering if it falls right in between the Endo and Chili? Not quite as snappy and efficient as the Endo, but more pedal friendly than the Chili...

    Great looking rig. I'm sure the wait list has already begun.
    My GUESS: it will fall more towards the Endo's leverage curve as the larger contact patch and the "roll over junk easier" ability of a larger tire would help bring those Chili characteristics to an Endo leverage curve. (At least that's what I'm hoping. I want it all in one bike!)
    "sounds like you need to find a better mechanic..." -- Calhoun

  20. #20
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    I would really love that bike, I would be considering a 650b bike as my next one, and I don't expect to change my bike anytime soon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TSC View Post
    My GUESS: it will fall more towards the Endo's leverage curve as the larger contact patch and the "roll over junk easier" ability of a larger tire would help bring those Chili characteristics to an Endo leverage curve. (At least that's what I'm hoping. I want it all in one bike!)
    That would be my guess as well. The tubing is Endo based with a beefier downtube. I would think since it is geared towards Enduro, it would be based more on the Endo.
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    I agree with both of you as well. They might as well have called this thing the "quiver killer," b/c that sure as hell is what it's sounding like.

    6.75 lbs with a Fox CTD, that's most likely a medium. Anyone know what a medium Endo weighs with the same shock, for comparison?
    If jackasses could fly this place would be an airport.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rscecil007 View Post
    I agree with both of you as well. They might as well have called this thing the "quiver killer," b/c that sure as hell is what it's sounding like.

    6.75 lbs with a Fox CTD, that's most likely a medium. Anyone know what a medium Endo weighs with the same shock, for comparison?
    I see it as a great one bike solution, but 2 26ers are always better than one 650B.
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    so fox is only offering a 15mm thru axle 34mm stantion fork? i still dont like that compared to 20mm axle and 36mm stantions on 26" bikes. i dont see hw it will replace an endo and a chilcotin with one bike. it will be a compromise just like building a light chili ir heavy endo

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    Quote Originally Posted by thefriar View Post
    Titatinium pivot hardware!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Chilcotin and endorphin too? let me know!

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    Quote Originally Posted by graypaw View Post
    Chilcotin and endorphin too? let me know!
    The new Podium has always had that ti hardware, but would be interesting if the other two started coming with it.
    If jackasses could fly this place would be an airport.

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    The basic geo is on the right side of the info sheet. What other geo specs are you looking for?

    knolly WARDEN-presentation1.jpg
    If jackasses could fly this place would be an airport.

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    The FB photo says winter 2013, while the PB story says winter 2014.

  29. #29
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    Very nice. 150mm travel 650B Knolly 4x4 -
    Safe riding,

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  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by qbert2000 View Post
    so fox is only offering a 15mm thru axle 34mm stantion fork? i still dont like that compared to 20mm axle and 36mm stantions on 26" bikes. i dont see hw it will replace an endo and a chilcotin with one bike. it will be a compromise just like building a light chili ir heavy endo
    I can def say, while I used to think the axle size would make a big difference, it really doesn't. It's more the stanchions and overall build than the axle.

    Cheezwhip let me borrow his 32mm stanchion'd Revelation with 20mm axle to use on my Endo for a bit while I waited on my Pike to come in. And the Pike is much stiffer and just overal more robust feeling than the Rev was.
    If jackasses could fly this place would be an airport.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blatant View Post
    The FB photo says winter 2013, while the PB story says winter 2014.
    December 2013/January 2014.
    If jackasses could fly this place would be an airport.

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    As the proud owner of brand new Chilcotin, and the fact that I've never tried a 650b, my enthusiasm is somewhat muted, but I'm excited to see Knolly continue to grow his offerings, and hope this new frame appeals to all the 650b riders out there. I'd be stoked on it if I counted myself among the big wheel boys.

    I'd like to try one someday...
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    Nice job guys! It would be great to hear more about how the bike is tuned. Does it retain the stand up and crank attitude of the Endorphin?

    Another headset standard? (in the lineup) Doh!
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    Quote Originally Posted by bubba13 View Post

    Another headset standard? Doh!
    56mm headsets have been around for a few years. I prefer it to the 49mm standard as I like insets. I wish the Chili was 56mm, then I could run a 170 tapered inset and maintain the stock geometry. I'm sure it will be coming on newer frames.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rscecil007 View Post
    I can def say, while I used to think the axle size would make a big difference, it really doesn't. It's more the stanchions and overall build than the axle.

    Cheezwhip let me borrow his 32mm stanchion'd Revelation with 20mm axle to use on my Endo for a bit while I waited on my Pike to come in. And the Pike is much stiffer and just overal more robust feeling than the Rev was.
    i still prefer 35m or 36m to 34mm stantions regardless of axle whether 15mm or 20mm. 15mm was fox and shimano's solution to a problem that never existed. the 20mm maxle was the answer after regular qr went the way of the dod. 15mm has no advantages over 20mm that i can see. just another money making standard that und=fortunately all have now adopted. just like 650b imho.

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    Quote Originally Posted by qbert2000 View Post
    15mm has no advantages over 20mm that i can see. just another money making standard that und=fortunately all have now adopted. just like 650b imho.
    Dude please.....15mm is like 6grams lighter.
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  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiSS'er View Post
    56mm headsets have been around for a few years. I prefer it to the 49mm standard as I like insets. I wish the Chili was 56mm, then I could run a 170 tapered inset and maintain the stock geometry. I'm sure it will be coming on newer frames.
    Explain to me please about the 44/56mm.

    --Will the 44mm headtube top allow a 1.5" straight steerer tube (I'm guessing no)?

    --Since the 56mm headtube bottom is larger than the current 49mm I assume it will accommodate ZS bottom, correct?

    --Is the wider bottom necessary to accommodate angle-set headsets because the smaller diameter headtube top?
    "sounds like you need to find a better mechanic..." -- Calhoun

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    Quote Originally Posted by TSC View Post
    Explain to me please about the 44/56mm.

    --Will the 44mm headtube top allow a 1.5" straight steerer tube (I'm guessing no)?

    --Since the 56mm headtube bottom is larger than the current 49mm I assume it will accommodate ZS bottom, correct?

    --Is the wider bottom necessary to accommodate angle-set headsets because the smaller diameter headtube top?
    44 mm wont' fit a 1.5"

    correct, it's so you can run a tapered fork with a zerostack hs

    no idea about the angle set thing
    If jackasses could fly this place would be an airport.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tiSS'er View Post
    Dude....
    "What's mine say?"
    If jackasses could fly this place would be an airport.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tiSS'er View Post
    Dude please.....15mm is like 6grams lighter.
    ..only if it the hub is yellow, if it's white it's 16 grams heavier... of course, red is 5% faster, regardless of weight..

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    Quote Originally Posted by qbert2000 View Post
    just another money making standard that und=fortunately all have now adopted. just like 650b imho.
    I'm curious about 650b, but idea of it being forced down our throats through planned obsolescence of 26 I am not cool about.

    I'm starting to get worried about 26 being pushed out by 650b. Almost like quality improvements and durability increases in 26'' have created a need for an artificial upgrade mandate to 650b, and they'll shut the supply of 26'' to force the shift.

    Endo is most funnest bike in the history of full squish in my fleet over the years, and the more I ride it, the less I want another wheelsize (even after 3 years on Sultans).

    At the end of the day, I haven't ridden a knolly I didn't like and enjoy, so if Noel is leading, I'm fine to follow.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rscecil007 View Post
    The basic geo is on the right side of the info sheet. What other geo specs are you looking for?

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Seat angle, wheel base, reach & stack, length of seat tube

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by thefriar View Post
    I'm curious about 650b, but idea of it being forced down our throats through planned obsolescence of 26 I am not cool about.

    I'm starting to get worried about 26 being pushed out by 650b. Almost like quality improvements and durability increases in 26'' have created a need for an artificial upgrade mandate to 650b, and they'll shut the supply of 26'' to force the shift.

    Endo is most funnest bike in the history of full squish in my fleet over the years, and the more I ride it, the less I want another wheelsize (even after 3 years on Sultans).

    At the end of the day, I haven't ridden a knolly I didn't like and enjoy, so if Noel is leading, I'm fine to follow.
    I'm glad the Warden is "in addition to" the current line-up rather than a "replacement for" (for now at least) the Endo. I have been talking to several people lately about the Endo, and I feel that an Endo 650 would lose some of the characteristics that make the current Endo so good.

    unfortunately, I think your right, 26ers will be filtered out over the next several years. Glad I have 2 26ers right now that I really like and should be around for the long haul.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thefriar View Post
    I'm curious about 650b, but idea of it being forced down our throats through planned obsolescence of 26 I am not cool about.

    I'm starting to get worried about 26 being pushed out by 650b. Almost like quality improvements and durability increases in 26'' have created a need for an artificial upgrade mandate to 650b, and they'll shut the supply of 26'' to force the shift.
    Don't worry: the 26er isn't going away. If most of the customer base migrates then you will see the bigger companies go away from making 26er specific components; but--no worries--a lot of mountain bike companies live by filling niche needs. Besides, by the time 26ers go out of style you will be able to 3d print all the components you need.
    "sounds like you need to find a better mechanic..." -- Calhoun

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big B View Post
    As the proud owner of brand new Chilcotin, and the fact that I've never tried a 650b, my enthusiasm is somewhat muted, but I'm excited to see Knolly continue to grow his offerings, and hope this new frame appeals to all the 650b riders out there. I'd be stoked on it if I counted myself among the big wheel boys.

    I'd like to try one someday...
    Ditto
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    Quote Originally Posted by rscecil007 View Post
    The new Podium has always had that ti hardware, but would be interesting if the other two started coming with it.
    That will be my ruin! New 4x4 linkage, CCDB CS ...

  47. #47
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    agreed. 26er is not going any where any time soon. it'll take quite some time for the 650b to fully implement it's way into "standardization." an example is CD based music. it's still around and devices are still being produced even after digitally stored devices have been introduced back in 2001 (ipod).

    like what tiSS'er said "the Warden is in addition to the current lineup rather than a replacement for the Endo." Knolly has done itself right while not to totally discriminate and isolate it's customer base by phasing out the 26. Unlike Nukeproof who are no longer offering the 26 across the board for all of it's built-up 2014 bikes. That's bad business.

    the 650b was introduced sometime in 2004. tire manufacturers started making the tire size around 2009 and within the last several years they're finally making there way into the mountain bike scene. so it's not like we've been totally shocked about this. the tire size has been around for decades on roadies. just like the 700c (roadie) a.k.a. 29er (mtb) it was just a matter of time for the 650b (27.5 if you prefer) to come around.

    it's just nice to see the mountain bike industry evolving and progressing. gives us something to get excited about, good or bad. i'm sure carbon went through similar love-hate debates when first introduced. it would of been worse if it were stagnant and only saw them come out with another paint scheme.

    speaking of carbon, i wonder what noel, dusty and the crew will reveal for which model will get the carbon treatment?!

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by TSC View Post
    Explain to me please about the 44/56mm.

    --Is the wider bottom necessary to accommodate angle-set headsets because the smaller diameter headtube top?
    This one is "probably". CC sells a "ANGLESET ZS44 | EC49" combo and a a "ANGLESET ZS44 | ZS56" combo but does not sell a "ANGLESET ZS44 | ZS49" combo. So to accommodate an angleset with the 44mm top without raising the front end Noel had to make the bottom a 56mm.

    EC = External Cup which adds 14mm of Bottom Stack Height.
    ZS = ZeroStack which adds 4mm of Bottom Stack Height.
    "sounds like you need to find a better mechanic..." -- Calhoun

  49. #49
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    The Warden looks cool! Not a name I expect for a Knolly bike, but maybe that part of it to not be stuck in a corner, which is refreshing. Congrats Knolly!

    I wonder if Eurobike, Interbike is just every brand providing a 27.5 frame or component. Basically we will skip a year in new mountain bike stuff......just say new 27.5 part X or new 27.5 frame X.

    I am still looking forward to the companies that are providing some new non-27.5 stuff - carbon, new widget, etc.

  50. #50
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    Oooooo. Aaaaah. Nicely done guys. A demo fleet ready by interbike outdoor demo is probably too much to hope for?
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    Quote Originally Posted by rscecil007 View Post
    44 mm wont' fit a 1.5"

    correct, it's so you can run a tapered fork with a zerostack hs

    no idea about the angle set thing
    44mm will fit 1.5", top or bottom. Obviously not zero stack on either for a 1.5" steerer but there are headsets for it. It's tougher to find (Nukeproof made them and last year I had to order from CRC as my LBS couldn't provide), although now you can pick them up from Cane Creek and probably others.

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    Put me down for one of these in green, despite the name.. I'm hoping the name will grow on me in time. Warden reminds me of an old peoples home for some reason....I think Ranger would have been better.

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    ... Am I nuts to start to think I can slap on the Warden rear on the Chilly front ?
    Maybe it won't work at all.. But what do you think Dusty?
    Ulating blencong sejatine tataraning lelaku...

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    Quote Originally Posted by loamranger View Post
    Put me down for one of these in green, despite the name.. I'm hoping the name will grow on me in time. Warden reminds me of an old peoples home for some reason....I think Ranger would have been better.


    LOL - +1 - the name is the only thing I don't like about this bike and it's the easiest thing to change. $10 in decals and I will have the only Knolly Sasquatch in existence...
    Last edited by vikb; 08-29-2013 at 02:49 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post


    LOL - +1 - the name is the only thing I don't like about this bike and it's the easiest thing to change. $10 in decals and I will have the only Knolly Sasquatch in existence...
    good idea....I think I'll call mine Holmbury....after my local ride

  56. #56
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    chain stays

    it's a bit difficult to see in the press photos but does anyone know if the Warden will get the sexy single-tube-chain-stay treatment the Podium has?

    in Friedrichshafen, Germany - photo by mikekazimer - Pinkbike

    knolly WARDEN-podium-triangle.jpg

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    Dusty, what's the shock size, please? I hope it's 200 x 57 so I can use up my spare DBair, assuming there is a frame only option?

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by softailteamrider View Post
    ... Am I nuts to start to think I can slap on the Warden rear on the Chilly front ?
    Maybe it won't work at all.. But what do you think Dusty?
    Would that be a Warcotin or a Childen?

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    I think we found Dusty's new coffee mug.

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  60. #60
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    Looking for forward to reading some reviews! Bike looks great, but the name doesn't conjure up images of free trails (especially if you live in San Diego).

  61. #61
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    Coming up with a name that everybody likes (or can live with) is next to impossible.

    Does it really matter to me? Nope.
    Last edited by Herzalot; 08-30-2013 at 04:02 AM.

  62. #62
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    Considering that's my buddy's last name, a lot of us were teasing him yesterday that he has to replace his Chilcotin already.

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    Reminds me of the new movie with Larry David (clear History) where they named the car "Howard".
    I Like the bike but the name can definitely use some work... Knolly can leave it as European name and in US release it under smth else. Let's hear some ideas. Assuming they want the message to be (trail boss)

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    In keeping with the Endo and Chilco, why not call it the Adrenalin (sp)?

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    Knolly stopped naming bikes out of a medical dictionary with the Podium, and then went to mountain ranges with the Chilcotin, so I think Warden is consistent with the current trend of being inconsistent. I like it.

    I think of it as the bike to rule all the other miscreants in the asylum.

    knolly WARDEN-theshawshankredemption-still12.jpg
    Last edited by Big B; 08-29-2013 at 11:22 AM.
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    I guess it's a good sign that the only thing people are griping about is the name! Seriously though, who cares? I know there was a very similar reaction to the Chilcotin and Podium names and those seem just fine now. Warden works fine for me.
    Sipping the Knolly Whisquillappa

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    Quote Originally Posted by catch22 View Post
    I guess it's a good sign that the only thing people are griping about is the name!
    +1 - if that's the biggest issue with this bike we are all good...
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    Big B has it. Think of all the movies where the Warden is the freaking bad ass boss. He runs the place. He tames all of the nastiest of the nasty while keeping them locked away so you can go home at the end of your day and feel safe.

    AKA the Warden will take all other 650b bikes and all of the craziest trails and put them in their place so you can end your ride with a smile on your face.

    Medical terms are done (I love my Endorphin and the term) and mountain ranges was never a trend as it was one bad ass bike. Although it wasn't too much of a departure from mountains/ regions/ trails... There is a trail on Mount Fromme in North Vancouver called Warden's Trail, it is a ***** of a technical climb and just chunder that bucks you wild if you come down it. Almost Warden territory.

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by TSC View Post
    This one is "probably". CC sells a "ANGLESET ZS44 | EC49" combo and a a "ANGLESET ZS44 | ZS56" combo but does not sell a "ANGLESET ZS44 | ZS49" combo. So to accommodate an angleset with the 44mm top without raising the front end Noel had to make the bottom a 56mm.

    EC = External Cup which adds 14mm of Bottom Stack Height.
    ZS = ZeroStack which adds 4mm of Bottom Stack Height.
    If you want an angle set Works Components gives you the most options and without the issues CC seems to have. Nothing but great reviews form users.

    Works Components - Angle Headsets to fit Most Frame Types & CNC Bicycle Components Proudly Made in the UK

    Love that Knolly went to the big 56mm lower on the head tube. This bike looks just amazing and it's gonna suck waiting for some real world reviews now that we know it exists.

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by catch22 View Post
    I guess it's a good sign that the only thing people are griping about is the name! Seriously though, who cares?
    Answer: The name will matter very little to Knolly's current customer base; BUT it will matter to potential first-time Knolly owners. It may sound crazy, but I was reticent to buy the Chilcotin because of the name (my first Knolly). I wanted the Delirium and the name was part of the reason I preferred it. I bought a Chili and am glad I did, but the name didn't help. (I'm glad I can call it a "Chili" because I prefer that to Chilcotin.")

    This bike will be competing for market-share against carbon fiber bikes with bigger marketing budgets; so doing everything right (including naming) is extremely important to maximize market share.

    IMO the name, Warden, conjures mixed feelings (Prison Warden = BADASS! Game/Park Warden = PRICK!). If I were to look for a new name I would look at my target segment (enduro racers and all-mountain riders) and find a name that:

    Rule #1-- Attracts as many customers as possible.

    Rule #2-- Pushes away as few customers as possible.

    Rule #3-- Doesn't require educating the customer as to why you chose it (e.g. Chilcotin).

    Podium is a name that does this quite well. I might look at a name that is similar: Apex, Pinnacle, Climax, Apogee, Crest, Zenith, Peak, etc. Or, at names that evoke emotions of power: Surge, Torrent, Deluge, yada, yada.

    My personal favorite is: Climax. It means "the highest or most intense point in development". It's a mash-up of the words "clim[b]" and "max". And the sexual entendre makes the name memorable and a talking point on the trail (i.e. self-advertising). Of course "Climax" could violate Rule #2 (do no harm), but might be worth it because of Rule #1 (attract as many customers as possible).

    Of course, if I bought a bike named "Climax" I would need to buy a "Woodie" or a "Chubbie" shock from Avalanche Racing Products to put on it.
    "sounds like you need to find a better mechanic..." -- Calhoun

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by TSC View Post
    What are the frame weights of the Chili and Endo with a CTD shock? (Not sure the frame size for which the 6.75 lbs is quoted in the pic.)



    BTW, this is an engineering question as well as a weight weenie question (i.e. "don't worry about it" answers won't help).
    I'm rockin' a small Endorphin and the frame came in at 6.44 lbs with CTD shock. (RAW cause we all know that saves weight )

    VitalMTB lists the Chilcotin frame at 7.49 lbs 2013 Knolly Chilcotin ? Reviews, Comparisons, Specs ? Mountain Bikes - Vital MTB

    So once again the Warden would fall right between the two at 6.75 lbs

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by TSC View Post
    My personal favorite is: Climax. It means "the highest or most intense point in development". It's a mash-up of the words "clim[b]" and "max". And the sexual entendre makes the name memorable and a talking point on the trail (i.e. self-advertising). Of course "Climax" could violate Rule #2 (do no harm), but might be worth it because of Rule #1 (attract as many customers as possible).

    Of course, if I bought a bike named "Climax" I would need to buy a "Woodie" or a "Chubbie" shock from Avalanche Racing Products to put on it.
    HAHA.. Climax. It would be an orgasmic ride indeed.

    I would substitute Climax for Summit if we were to continue on that road. KNOLLY SUMMIT

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidad View Post
    If you want an angle set Works Components gives you the most options and without the issues CC seems to have. Nothing but great reviews form users.

    Works Components - Angle Headsets to fit Most Frame Types & CNC Bicycle Components Proudly Made in the UK

    Love that Knolly went to the big 56mm lower on the head tube. This bike looks just amazing and it's gonna suck waiting for some real world reviews now that we know it exists.
    Thanks for the info! I'm sure it will help a bunch of people out.

    Personally, I just run a standard headset. I'm just an incredibly curious person and I know that Noel made the headtube 44/56 for a reason. Making a tapered headtube is a headache, especially for manufacturing, so I was curious why Noel did it.

    Once I dug into the rationale, I was impressed. 44mm top matches better with the forks for this bike. 56mm allows people to set their preferred headtube angle (if it's not standard), while allowing the maximum variance in fork travel, without compromising the bike's geometry. Noel nailed it, once again!
    "sounds like you need to find a better mechanic..." -- Calhoun

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by skinnies View Post
    Big B has it. Think of all the movies where the Warden is the freaking bad ass boss. He runs the place. He tames all of the nastiest of the nasty while keeping them locked away so you can go home at the end of your day and feel safe.

    AKA the Warden will take all other 650b bikes and all of the craziest trails and put them in their place so you can end your ride with a smile on your face.

    Medical terms are done (I love my Endorphin and the term) and mountain ranges was never a trend as it was one bad ass bike. Although it wasn't too much of a departure from mountains/ regions/ trails... There is a trail on Mount Fromme in North Vancouver called Warden's Trail, it is a ***** of a technical climb and just chunder that bucks you wild if you come down it. Almost Warden territory.
    What we got here is failure to communicate!
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  75. #75
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    The name will toughen you up if you don't like it! Reference Johnny Cash "A Boy Named Sue"

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by RyeBokeh View Post
    I'm rockin' a small Endorphin and the frame came in at 6.44 lbs with CTD shock. (RAW cause we all know that saves weight )

    VitalMTB lists the Chilcotin frame at 7.49 lbs 2013 Knolly Chilcotin ? Reviews, Comparisons, Specs ? Mountain Bikes - Vital MTB

    So once again the Warden would fall right between the two at 6.75 lbs
    Awesome! Thanks so much. I'm guessing the weight difference is mainly in the larger diameter downtube.

    Granted there will be more rubber on a 27.5" tire, but the wheel weights don't seem to vary much*. My guess is that this bike could be made up to sub 30 lbs without much difficulty. And endro riders could use beefier tires for training/playing and lighter tires for race days and see large weight changes where it counts the most.

    *Examples
    Envy
    26" AM -- 1578g (with King Hub)
    27.5" AM -- 1602g (with King Hub)

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    Complete wheelset weight; Front and Rear wheel

    1595 g (26'' 28 hole)
    1687 g (27.5'' 28 hole)
    1872 g (29'' 32 hole)
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  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by RyeBokeh View Post

    HAHA.. Climax. It would be an orgasmic ride indeed.

    I would substitute Climax for Summit if we were to continue on that road. KNOLLY SUMMIT
    Yeah, my choice of "climax" for a Knolly bike was a bit tongue-in-cheek. It's a good name for the right company, but probably not Knolly. (A product name should fit the company's personality.) KNOLLY SUMMIT fits the Knolly's "persona" better.


    EDIT: I can't believe I left "summit" off my list. I just went to thesaurus.com and put in Podium and went from there. I saw "summit" and meant to put it on my list, but missed it. Glad you added it into the fray!
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  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by catch22 View Post
    I guess it's a good sign that the only thing people are griping about is the name! Seriously though, who cares? I know there was a very similar reaction to the Chilcotin and Podium names and those seem just fine now. Warden works fine for me.
    Wurd! For who knows how long now posters have been wanting Noel to put out a 650b. Now he as delivered and getting nailed for name... All that matters is how this mofo rides.
    I'm anxiously awaiting posts of Warden's first impression of ride rather than first impression of name.

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by F.N.G View Post
    Wurd! For who knows how long now posters have been wanting Noel to put out a 650b. Now he as delivered and getting nailed for name... All that matters is how this mofo rides.
    I'm anxiously awaiting posts of Warden's first impression of ride rather than first impression of name.
    Agree...All about the ride. Name does not matter to me. Having fun with names is cool, but as long as it rides great I would ride a bike named ********.

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by TSC View Post
    Yeah, my choice of "climax" for a Knolly bike was a bit tongue-in-cheek. It's a good name for the right company, but probably not Knolly
    It would fit Cove bikes. I can't believe it's not used by them already.
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  81. #81
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    You could call it a Knolly @ss Hatchet, and I'd still ride it.
    If jackasses could fly this place would be an airport.

  82. #82
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    Re: knolly WARDEN

    I was gonna go farther and say you could call it the Knolly gay goat sex and I'd still ride it.....

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  83. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by TSC View Post
    Answer: The name will matter very little to Knolly's current customer base; BUT it will matter to potential first-time Knolly owners.
    You've made half my point.

    FWIW: I'm sorry if any of you think I'm being a hater or my comments were harsh. My comments were an academic answer to the question of "who cares what the bike is named?"

    I'm wondering what fork I will put on my WARDEN.
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  84. #84
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    You just have to look at a bunch of other 2014 bikes names coming out to quickly realize Warden isn't all that bad. It could have been
    Fuzz1, Fuzz2, Snabb, Zula, Repack, Hip Hop, Faze, Tyee
    I think you get my point...

    I have never ridden a 27.5 and would like to try one out. Wish there was a demo dealer out here in the east.

  85. #85
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    Crux.

    It should be a name of a bike, you can't bag a summit without first getting past the crux. Every trail, route, has one

    But then you'd get the haters calling it a Knolly Crutch.

  86. #86
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    I think I'd just like to call it "Mine"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Big B View Post
    It would fit Cove bikes. I can't believe it's not used by them already.
    Brodie have been using that name (ClimbMax) for ages. Given Brodie is basically down the street from Cove and is one of the more storied brands on the west coast I'm sure the Cove folks wouldn't even consider it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TSC View Post
    Answer: The name will matter very little to Knolly's current customer base; BUT it will matter to potential first-time Knolly owners. It may sound crazy, but I was reticent to buy the Chilcotin because of the name (my first Knolly). I wanted the Delirium and the name was part of the reason I preferred it. I bought a Chili and am glad I did, but the name didn't help. (I'm glad I can call it a "Chili" because I prefer that to Chilcotin.")

    This bike will be competing for market-share against carbon fiber bikes with bigger marketing budgets; so doing everything right (including naming) is extremely important to maximize market share.

    IMO the name, Warden, conjures mixed feelings (Prison Warden = BADASS! Game/Park Warden = PRICK!). If I were to look for a new name I would look at my target segment (enduro racers and all-mountain riders) and find a name that:

    Rule #1-- Attracts as many customers as possible.

    Rule #2-- Pushes away as few customers as possible.

    Rule #3-- Doesn't require educating the customer as to why you chose it (e.g. Chilcotin).

    Podium is a name that does this quite well. I might look at a name that is similar: Apex, Pinnacle, Climax, Apogee, Crest, Zenith, Peak, etc. Or, at names that evoke emotions of power: Surge, Torrent, Deluge, yada, yada.

    My personal favorite is: Climax. It means "the highest or most intense point in development". It's a mash-up of the words "clim[b]" and "max". And the sexual entendre makes the name memorable and a talking point on the trail (i.e. self-advertising). Of course "Climax" could violate Rule #2 (do no harm), but might be worth it because of Rule #1 (attract as many customers as possible).

    Of course, if I bought a bike named "Climax" I would need to buy a "Woodie" or a "Chubbie" shock from Avalanche Racing Products to put on it.


    You're very right. Name is very important in terms of marketing.

    I think chilcotin is a very cool name. Podium/delirium/endorphin are also cool. Unfortunately warden to me sounds very old and stodgy.

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    WTF! Who cares about the name of a bike. Who will base his buying decision on the name when the frame alone costs more than 2000$

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    Quote Originally Posted by bonzoo View Post
    WTF! Who cares about the name of a bike. Who will base his buying decision on the name when the frame alone costs more than 2000$
    You as an individual may not care about the name of a bike but i'm pretty sure a lot of other people do. If bike names aren't important then they'd be allocated simple names like 1 or 2 or a or b or abc etc. People ride mountain bikes out of passion not because it's just something to do. That's why the look, colours, name etc of a bike are very important. Of course this is a generalisation as there will always be people who don't care about the aesthetics, name, colours etc. So in my opinion, for a business that relies on sales to survive, the name of a bike is very important....not saying that warden is bad....but it could be better.

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    I get your point. Still I believe that Knolly is targeting a customer segment which shouldnt care too much about the name. They are not targeting "average Joe", right? They are also rather expensive and are mostly sold as frame-only kits. So most people looking for a Knolly should have a better reason that the bike's name

    At least that is how I see Knolly in Europe.

    By the way: I dont like the name but in my opinion the topic is getting a bit hyped here

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    You're right in terms of people who are looking for this kind of bike probably won't pay that much attention to the name.

    Think the issue is we all love the brand and want it to do well. That being the case you just want the best for the brand. But yeah we're probably talking about it too much.

  93. #93
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    Definitely talking about the name too much.... but having said that I will add that the bike makes the name just like the man makes the name..... not vice versa. If it's an awesome bike it won't matter what the name is. That name will come to be associated with legendary awesomeness if it lives up to its promise and its heritage.

    So changing the subject, I know Ibis has taken a lot of heat coming to the table with "only" 130mm of travel for their HDR 650b, but I was hoping for something more in that range (maybe 140). I think marketing wise 150 is the smart move because I suspect Noel sells more Endorphins than Chilcotins and making it overlap too much with the Endo canabalizes those sales more (not to mention 150mm seems to be what everyone is begging for eventhough most of us don't need 6" of travel most of the time) but for me personally I was hoping for something that would complement my chili not replace it.

    For me, for most of the trails I ride, for enduro racing (at least the ones I've raced)125-135mm is plenty of travel and still keeps the bike fast and poppy and eager. Maybe Noel's next project will look like that..... in carbon. Knolly Convict anyone?
    Last edited by KRob; 08-31-2013 at 01:49 PM.
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    wow, people need to relax about the name...........hehe..........Can't wait to see some custom builds on these!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by KRob View Post
    So changing the subject, I know Ibis has taken a lot of heat coming to table with "only" 130mm of travel for their HDR 650b, but I was hoping for something more in that range (maybe 140). I think marketing wise 150 is the smart move because I suspect Noel sells more Endorphins than Chilcotins and making it overalap too much with the Endo canabalizes those sales more (not to mention 150mm seems to be what everyone is begging for eventhough most of us don't need 6" of travel most of the time) but for me personally I was hoping for something that would complement my chili not replace it.
    Ibis also got panned heavily for building a new bike with the same poor tire clearance that the previous hacked 650B Mojo HD conversions suffered from. Especially when you look at what the competition did with their 650B line ups. It seemed like a half-measure just to have a 27.5er in the line up at minimal cost.

    I can't see very many companies keeping all their 26ers and 27.5ers long term. There isn't enough differentiation to justify the costs involved. Santa Cruz has already started gutting their small wheel line up below the 160mm travel range for example. So you'll probably see a shorter travel 27.5 Knolly next year.

    The question is will there be enough sales of the various models to keep them all or will some bikes have to get cut from the Knolly line up or possibly just replace say the 26er Endo with a 650B Endo and keep the name.

    Personally I'm stoked at the Warden specs because I wanted one bike to do it all. It will be replacing a 160mm SC Nomad. If you are going to put out one 27.5er this year a 150mm travel bike covers your bases pretty well between the Trail and AM folks.

    I can see why you wouldn't want a 160mm 26er and a 150mm 27.5er...too much duplication.
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  96. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    Personally I'm stoked at the Warden specs because I wanted one bike to do it all.
    I guess we all have different definitions of "do all". I can't DH/FR comfortably on a 150mm frame. (by DH, I"m not talking about A-line, I'm referring to chunky trails and big drops.) Of course, there are always going to tradeoffs when you label a bike do-all.

    But then again, I can't even call my Chili a do-all bike, because there are trails I ride that I consider V-tach only territory. Yah, I could do them on my Chili if I had to, but it's not anywhere near as fun.
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  97. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big B View Post
    I guess we all have different definitions of "do all".
    The "for me" was implied in the "do it all". Of course what that means to everyone is different.

    I'll be using the Warden for all mountain rides, trail rides and some bikepacking. FR/DH isn't part of my world view. I don't shuttle or have access to a lift so all my turns are earned by climbing first.

    Which is why I said the 150mm 650B option was a good one to cover your bases between trail riding and AM. I didn't mention FR/DH because that clearly isn't going to be what the Warden is good at.
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  98. #98
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    Just making conversation.
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    Re: knolly WARDEN

    I'm an outsider here, a long time Yeti rider. In my opinion the name is rather lame. However this bike is marketed to a specific group of people looking to ride bikes not the masses. I'm looking for a new bike next year and this bike is intriguing, and the name won't stop me from purchasing one, not in the least bit. Would I wish for a sexier name? Yes. But the current Yeti naming is pretty utilitarian... Not sexy or filled with passion and images of epic riding.

    Yeti released a 650 B 130 millimeter trail bike. It has a frame weight with shock of 7.5 pounds. Seems like a little bit too much for a 5 inch bike. It better be stiff as hell. The warden has more travel and is lighter, intriguing!

  100. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by rscecil007 View Post
    You could call it a Knolly @ss Hatchet, and I'd still ride it.
    Then I'd be all, "check out that @ss! Wish I could ride that!"
    "My car of choice is a 12 year old civic that runs on the tears of my life choices." - redditor

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