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  1. #1
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    Which Knolly for Enduro Race (European Style) ?

    Hello Knomers,

    Considering Enduro events like we do have in Europe, such as the Enduro World Series, Transprovence and the like, which bike will you build to race them ?

    These event are generally week-end, or week long with full day ride. Liaisons (not timed) can be 30-40 km, 1200-1800m up on any kind of terrain. Timed stages are 4-15 minutes mainly down, generally tight, technical, with possible small climb and for sure section where the pedalling ability can make the difference...

    Champs are generally on 160mm bikes / 34 forks (Lapierre Spicy, Spe Enduro, Canyon Strive, Mojo HD, Commencal Meta AM/SX).

    Is the chilly too much a bike for these situations (sometimes described as sluggish, not all day bike) ?
    Is the endo enough for these situations (you definitely have to be fast on the down) ?
    Will the future 650b Knolly be the magic ticket ?

    Thanks for your input.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by gautama108 View Post
    Hello Knomers,

    Considering Enduro events like we do have in Europe, such as the Enduro World Series, Transprovence and the like, which bike will you build to race them ?

    These event are generally week-end, or week long with full day ride. Liaisons (not timed) can be 30-40 km, 1200-1800m up on any kind of terrain. Timed stages are 4-15 minutes mainly down, generally tight, technical, with possible small climb and for sure section where the pedalling ability can make the difference...

    Champs are generally on 160mm bikes / 34 forks (Lapierre Spicy, Spe Enduro, Canyon Strive, Mojo HD, Commencal Meta AM/SX).

    Is the chilly too much a bike for these situations (sometimes described as sluggish, not all day bike) ?
    Is the endo enough for these situations (you definitely have to be fast on the down) ?
    Will the future 650b Knolly be the magic ticket ?

    Thanks for your input.
    The Endorphin, BOS suspension, 1x11 drivetrain, I9 Torch Wheels, High Roller 2 front, Larsen rear. weight weenie the rest.

  3. #3
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    Thanks,

    Bos Front / Rear or Front only ?
    150 mm / 160 mm ?
    What about very low BB in chunky line ?

  4. #4
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    just suggestions, its up to your spend, the idea is to build it ultra lightweight with decent length forks (150/160).

    bos is same price as fox on forks but more expensive for shocks. its up to your wallet, lots of folks run ctd shock with devilles. the vipr 2 is same weight as a ctd float, and the kirk is lighter than a ccdb air. id go with the kirk for its DH potential.

    dont need to worry about BB height with the right shock and riding technique.

  5. #5
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    From what I have seen it looks like the Chili would be a better call for the European courses. With the right mix of parts it can be built up light (around 30 lbs) and still rip the downs.

    I would go with the new Pike at 160, air shock in the rear, 1X drivetrain, Lev dropper post, 1750 gr wheels and tires in the 750-800 gr range.

    The adjustable geometry is another bonus. You can change it up for different courses.

    The Endo might work in the hands of a very skilled rider but I would want a bit more to save my arse on those gnarly courses.

    The Endo would be my bike of choice State side.

    For what it's worth I currently own both bikes.

  6. #6
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    Personally I think that anytime you are going to be timed coming downhill, you'd be better off on a Chilcotin. The Endo will definitely be easier on the climbs, but those sections aren't timed anyway. For speed coming down through gnar and tech you can't beat the Chili.

  7. #7
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    Noram enduro courses are super non-technical with the exception of Whistler.

    TransProvence and the Italian series are tech gnar fests in comparison to say the Hood River or Ashland courses so keep that in mind when you see the very US-centric coverage on MTBR.

    Go bigger. Chilcotin would be better.
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  8. #8
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    I race the Oregon Enduro series on a chilcotin and wouldn't have it any other way. The coverage you see of the oregon series sucks and makes it look way tamer than it really is. I've placed top 5 in the past two races in my CAT and didn't feel my bike held me back at all. Now on more gnar courses like some of the euro series has, I'd for sure choose chilcotin. Plus when you're not racing the bike can handle any type of riding most can throw at it. I'd try to shoot for a 30-33 lb build and use strong parts where it counts and light parts where it doesn't.

  9. #9
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    Thanks guys,

    Start to be interesting because I spent good time reading this forum, and it seems that most of you advocate big build (CCDB, Avyd, ...) to get most of the Chilly.

    So we all now that with the right build, the Chilly can handle whatever you throw at it.
    Now the question is: does a light build (new Pike or Deville front / new Monarch Plus or Bos Kirk rear) make sense for the Chilly, or does it denature it ?

    Also what about "relance" (accelerating after a turn ) with the Chilco, which is a high criteria on judging Enduro bikes ?

    Stéph

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by gautama108 View Post
    Now the question is: does a light build (new Pike or Deville front / new Monarch Plus or Bos Kirk rear) make sense for the Chilly, or does it denature it ?

    Also what about "relance" (accelerating after a turn ) with the Chilco, which is a high criteria on judging Enduro bikes ?

    Stéph
    It makes no sense. If you wanted a super light bike you would not be looking at Knolly. The Chilcotin is a bike that can be and should be ridden hard. Dump it into the ground. Case some gaps. Put it away dirty. It's a pretty tough bike. But lots of people go crazy about weight. IMO they are better off spending money on improving their skills or their fitness. But it's a free world and people can do what they want with their money.

    The Chilcotin accelerates pretty well but its also a bit dependent on riding style and on rear shock. If you can pump a bike then it will be ok. It's pretty solid so it doesn't get deflected into or going into turns so its pretty easy to hold speed cornering. Maybe not the greatest for sprinting in and out of corners sometime because of the nature of the suspension but that's tradeoff for active bike.
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  11. #11
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    pfft. the chili couldnt win one of those races in a month of sundays.

    go do some demos. dont listen too much to others.

  12. #12
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    Thanks you guy,

    It seems a quite difficult choice without testing. I think this is related to what people call AM/FR/Enduro, to the terrain everybody ride and the personal skills ...

    Anyway, one of the very important feature I am looking for is this ability to absorb square edge and follow the terrain without worrying too much of the back.

    And that's seems to be a characteristics of the 4x4. So both Chilly and Endo should share that. The rest is probably compromise...

  13. #13
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    I think for most people, well myself anyway ride the chilli for fun. So weight is not the main concern. Rather durability and enjoyability.

    Having said this if it's a race and the downhill is timed then i think the chilli with bos deville and ccdb coil in rear would be a demon! Maybe even get the 170mm deville.

  14. #14
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    its not about the downhills, its about endurance. you can endure more on a lighter bike. sure the chili would make the downs easier, but not necessarily quicker. it depends on the rider and their strength/strengths. MOST riders in enduro races run 'Trail/AM' bikes with 150-160 forks, the chili is an AM/FR, its a notch up in its aggressiveness and of course there is a price to pay for this.

    all riders are different and have different strengths an weakenesses, only the clock will determine which bike is best for you in these type of events.

    do timed demos.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by cfrench View Post
    its not about the downhills, its about endurance. you can endure more on a lighter bike. sure the chili would make the downs easier, but not necessarily quicker. it depends on the rider and their strength/strengths. MOST riders in enduro races run 'Trail/AM' bikes with 150-160 forks, the chili is an AM/FR, its a notch up in its aggressiveness and of course there is a price to pay for this.

    all riders are different and have different strengths an weakenesses, only the clock will determine which bike is best for you in these type of events.

    do timed demos.
    Totally true. I did Transprovence on a quite heavy Meta SX, not always fun, which is also my main reason of riding...

    And interestingly, it seems that people who have both (Chilco + Endo) tends to ride the Endo more and more and describe it as being playful, nimble = fun ... By flattening the trail, the Chilco may also flatten the fun factor, except if you put Freeride, Jump and so on in the equation ?

  16. #16
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    also, if you remember the downhills, they are hardly val di sole time can also be made up on the pedally sections and in the last race in italy those lapping others were doing it...pedalling.

    im hoping the 650b endo will be the goto for this type of work.

    as for the chili, its a swiss army knife, a jack of all trades, Trail -- AM -- FR -- Mini-DH, but isnt for weight weenies and racers will look for something at the beginning of the scale i just drew not at the end of it.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by gautama108 View Post
    Totally true. I did Transprovence on a quite heavy Meta SX, not always fun, which is also my main reason of riding...

    And interestingly, it seems that people who have both (Chilco + Endo) tends to ride the Endo more and more and describe it as being playful, nimble = fun ... By flattening the trail, the Chilco may also flatten the fun factor, except if you put Freeride, Jump and so on in the equation ?
    I thought super enduro's were mostly downhill? And with rough bits and jumps? If that was the case then that's why I thought chilli is better. But yes if it involves endurance and a reasonable amount of uphill with smooth downhills then I can see why the endo would be better.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by tom34 View Post
    I thought super enduro's were mostly downhill? And with rough bits and jumps? If that was the case then that's why I thought chilli is better. But yes if it involves endurance and a reasonable amount of uphill with smooth downhills then I can see why the endo would be better.
    sure, your right about the super enduro's, but the enduro scene does have quite a few formats now, different races call for different bike set ups. if you were to choose a chili for one of the events, youd still likely build it as light as possible.

    it all depends on what races hes thinking of. one set-up wont be optimal for all races. the race day trails are always being changed and not usually announced until last minute, so you unless youve got a mechanic/sponsor there will always be a compromise somewhere.

    there are so many factors. one more is if your a heavy guy you would be better without a heavy bike too...whereas if your built like a racing snake, you may be able to pedal the chili faster than others can...

  19. #19
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    I was scheduled to race the first of BME series this past weekend. I say scheduled because on Tuesday I dislocated my shoulder. The weekend prior to the race we went and rode the area to get a feel for what was necessary (tires/rims.) Day one/Stage one would have been easy and fast on an Endo. The South Boundary Trail is not overly technical and requires a lot of pedalling. The lower part gets chunky but what I have heard/ witnessed the Endo would have killed it there. The Second Day had 4 stages at Angel Fire Bike Park. There was only one stage that went through a Black Diamond Trail, but even the Blues at Angel Fire can be chunky. I imagine a very fit rider could maneuver the Endo through all of the stages with ease, but I know for myself as I start to get tired my line choices get ugly. This is when I think having the Chilcotin is a benefit. The Chili can get you out of some ugly situations, and I believe that the Chilcotin is a great pedaller and easily accelerates when you put the power into the pedals.

    I have my Chilcotin built to 32 pounds, without compromises. And to me, 32 pounds damn light given the capabilities of the bike.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calhoun View Post
    I was scheduled to race the first of BME series this past weekend. I say scheduled because on Tuesday I dislocated my shoulder. The weekend prior to the race we went and rode the area to get a feel for what was necessary (tires/rims.) Day one/Stage one would have been easy and fast on an Endo. The South Boundary Trail is not overly technical and requires a lot of pedalling. The lower part gets chunky but what I have heard/ witnessed the Endo would have killed it there. The Second Day had 4 stages at Angel Fire Bike Park. There was only one stage that went through a Black Diamond Trail, but even the Blues at Angel Fire can be chunky. I imagine a very fit rider could maneuver the Endo through all of the stages with ease, but I know for myself as I start to get tired my line choices get ugly. This is when I think having the Chilcotin is a benefit. The Chili can get you out of some ugly situations, and I believe that the Chilcotin is a great pedaller and easily accelerates when you put the power into the pedals.

    I have my Chilcotin built to 32 pounds, without compromises. And to me, 32 pounds damn light given the capabilities of the bike.
    I agree wholly with this. Something to add would be if you have saved energy pedalling a lighter bike the strength that you reserve can be used to man-handle (own your moves) the bike more on the downs. But its a tricky one to recommend to someone you havnt rode with as each rider is different in terms of fitness / skills / style.

  21. #21
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    Going fast downhill is about as tiring as going fast uphill, if you're actually going fast.
    Nice KOM, sorry about your penis.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrwhlr View Post
    Going fast downhill is about as tiring as going fast uphill, if you're actually going fast.


    true.

    Hopefully the OP realises that its not a simple question and sometimes you have to go out your way to demo lots of bikes before you know your making the right decision.

    If your really interested use your next holiday to go somewhere close to a Knolly distributor with decent trails on their doorstep, and test them.

  23. #23
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    Jeezus, Enduro is the best and worst thing to happen to mountain biking.

    FWIW, my everyday bike is an Endo with a Float 160 and proper tires (dhf 2.5 exo, crossmark LUST/dhr2 tr). It's also served me well racing this spring with a few cat1 podiums. I raced a chili last fall for a few Enduro/super ds in moab and it felt much more sluggish. The endo rules. A much sportier, quicker bike. And it still feels like there is much more than 140mm of travel.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by flowtron View Post
    Jeezus, Enduro is the best and worst thing to happen to mountain biking.

    FWIW, my everyday bike is an Endo with a Float 160 and proper tires (dhf 2.5 exo, crossmark LUST/dhr2 tr). It's also served me well racing this spring with a few cat1 podiums. I raced a chili last fall for a few Enduro/super ds in moab and it felt much more sluggish. The endo rules. A much sportier, quicker bike. And it still feels like there is much more than 140mm of travel.
    This is the style of comments that make me things Endo will rule for Enduro. Its seems that Knolly suspension allow more for the same travel. Most of Chilcotin owner seems to be quite Freeride oriented and are proponent of coil, 170mm, ... So if the Endo is like other normal 150/160 mm bike, it can be the ticket...

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by gautama108 View Post
    This is the style of comments that make me things Endo will rule for Enduro. Its seems that Knolly suspension allow more for the same travel. Most of Chilcotin owner seems to be quite Freeride oriented and are proponent of coil, 170mm, ... So if the Endo is like other normal 150/160 mm bike, it can be the ticket...


    but wait a month or two, the Endo 650b is round the corner

  26. #26
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    Yep, this is a bad moment to buy new bikes...
    So many interesting things happening...

  27. #27
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    I do think an Endo 650 would be an absolutely crushing speed demon of a bike.

  28. #28
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    My vote would be for an Endo 650b with BOS Devilles and Bos Kirk shock, with Syntace W35 rims. That would be an amazing Enduro bike that would build up to under 30lb.

  29. #29
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    Last edited by cfrench; 07-01-2013 at 02:25 PM.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by flowtron View Post
    Jeezus, Enduro is the best and worst thing to happen to mountain biking.

    FWIW, my everyday bike is an Endo with a Float 160 and proper tires (dhf 2.5 exo, crossmark LUST/dhr2 tr). It's also served me well racing this spring with a few cat1 podiums. I raced a chili last fall for a few Enduro/super ds in moab and it felt much more sluggish. The endo rules. A much sportier, quicker bike. And it still feels like there is much more than 140mm of travel.
    Hey Joe, didn't you ride the Chilcotin at the Fears Tears and Beers? I agree that for most of the Enduro courses around here the Endo built like yours would be killer. The 650b Endorphin would be even killerer.

    Having said that, my overall time this year (on my 33 lb Chili) was ~30seconds slower than last year on my 32 lb 5 Spot with 55 RC3 Ti fork and medium weight build. Some of that was rider error and some was rider bonk. The Chili did not hold me back too much on the flatter, pedally sections, and I was thankful to have it on Whorehouse Hill.
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  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by loamranger View Post
    My vote would be for an Endo 650b with BOS Devilles and Bos Kirk shock, with Syntace W35 rims. That would be an amazing Enduro bike that would build up to under 30lb.
    Yeah thats the one, it would be a very similar in weight, strength and geo to the bikes the pros were riding in Val D'Allos at the weekend...could build this up to 27-28lbs easily. As for the wheels the W30 would be enough for racing, W35 would last longer/be tougher...

  32. #32
    Just roll it......
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    To the OP, since you've done the Trans Provence and are shooting for the EWS races, I feel like I'm not really in a place to tell you what to ride. They all seem uber burly by the Enduro's we have in the states. For instance, Muttonchops won the Oregon series overall the last two years on lighter trailbikes. The new Washington series (cascadia dirt cup) is looking to be a bit more euro with burlier descents, but still not at the level in Europe.

    All I can add is my buddy is racing the EWS right now and also raced the Italian national champs a couple weeks ago (he did well there). He is on a 160mm bike that's similar to a Chilcotin (in its angles and intended use) and in V'allos he put a 180mm fork on his bike. He could ride his 130mm travel bike if he wanted, but has chosen to use the 160mm bike thus far.

    Not sure that helps or not, but that's coming from a buddy that has a large quiver to choose from.

    EB

  33. #33
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    Thanks all of you Guys,

    It will be a Chilco... Finally I live in the Alps...

    I may go for 2 different builds:
    * ccdba + lyrik,
    * monarch plus + pike 650b

    Next thread will be in the build thread )

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by KRob View Post
    Hey Joe, didn't you ride the Chilcotin at the Fears Tears and Beers? I agree that for most of the Enduro courses around here the Endo built like yours would be killer. The 650b Endorphin would be even killerer.

    Having said that, my overall time this year (on my 33 lb Chili) was ~30seconds slower than last year on my 32 lb 5 Spot with 55 RC3 Ti fork and medium weight build. Some of that was rider error and some was rider bonk. The Chili did not hold me back too much on the flatter, pedally sections, and I was thankful to have it on Whorehouse Hill.
    Nope, I was on that Endo. It was a little sporty at warp speed on Whorehouse, but it feels/rides like there is more than 140mm of travel.

  35. #35
    Just roll it......
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    After watching coverage of Les 2 Alpes and Val d'allos the past couple of weeks, I can't believe you'd even consider riding the Endo on these courses. HOLY SH!T, those aren't even close to American enduros....not even close.

    Chilcotin for sure. No doubt about it.

  36. #36
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    Be reassured. Chilco is on its way...

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by ebxtreme View Post
    After watching coverage of Les 2 Alpes and Val d'allos the past couple of weeks, I can't believe you'd even consider riding the Endo on these courses. HOLY SH!T, those aren't even close to American enduros....not even close.

    Chilcotin for sure. No doubt about it.
    American enduro courses are neutered. This is a US centric site. It's funny to see people who've barely ridden out of state bleating on about the gnarliness of the Oregon courses
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